Pissed off when I noticed that Ohio State vs Northwestern tonight (part of the new FOX contract where the B1G agreed to play some Friday games) is on the BTN.

It was originally on FS1, but then when an ALCS game was rained out the other night, that pushed the baseball schedule such that FOX had to find a place for a baseball game tonight, and so they bumped the football game from FS1.

But why the BTN, a channel many of us - like me - don't subscribe to, rather than FS2, which basically comes in a package with FS1?

Because the Big Ten can't be on FS2 per the media contract. Plus BTN is in more households nationwide than FS2 -- and is way more accessible than FS2 in the midwest.


Going to the game tonight and awaiting the glorious clusterf***. Central St (one lane each way) in Evanston is already a trainwreck for big Saturday games. Now put it on Friday night to compound with Chicago rush hour and half the crowd probably won't get in until after kickoff.

(10-18-2019 03:54 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Because the Big Ten can't be on FS2 per the media contract. Plus BTN is in more households nationwide than FS2 -- and is way more accessible than FS2 in the midwest.

I didn't know that contractually a B1G game can't be on FS2. Thanks.

But ... how do they count "households"? Is a household someone who actually gets the channel, pays for it and can watch it, or is a household one where it is merely available on one's package, even if you don't subscribe?

(10-18-2019 04:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-18-2019 03:54 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Because the Big Ten can't be on FS2 per the media contract. Plus BTN is in more households nationwide than FS2 -- and is way more accessible than FS2 in the midwest.

I didn't know that contractually a B1G game can't be on FS2. Thanks.

But ... how do they count "households"? Is a household someone who actually gets the channel, pays for it and can watch it, or is a household one where it is merely available on one's package, even if you don't subscribe?

Most likely the latter. It’s available even though you don’t subscribe.

(10-18-2019 04:20 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(10-18-2019 04:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-18-2019 03:54 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Because the Big Ten can't be on FS2 per the media contract. Plus BTN is in more households nationwide than FS2 -- and is way more accessible than FS2 in the midwest.

I didn't know that contractually a B1G game can't be on FS2. Thanks.

But ... how do they count "households"? Is a household someone who actually gets the channel, pays for it and can watch it, or is a household one where it is merely available on one's package, even if you don't subscribe?

Most likely the latter. It’s available even though you don’t subscribe.

If so, then I would bet the number of people who actually can watch the game tonight would be higher on FS2 than on the BTN. The BTN might be "available" to 50 million households (or whatever) but I doubt anywhere close to 50 million are actually subscribing to it. In contrast, I bet a significantly higher percentage of FS2 "available" households can actually watch it, as this channel doesn't require its own specific subscription but rather is usually part of a generic sports bundle that more people get.

(10-18-2019 03:32 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  But why the BTN, a channel many of us - like me - don't subscribe to, rather than FS2, which basically comes in a package with FS1?

You've got some flawed assumptions in there.
1. FS2 may be packaged with FS1 in some areas, but not everywhere. According to this Awful Announcing graphic from March 2018, FS2 and BTN have comparable subscriber bases--58M for FS2, 57M for BTN. So just on that basis, it's a tossup. (Comparison: ESPN 87, ESPN2 87, FS1 84)

2. You're not the only market. FS2 and BTN both have about 55M-60M subscribers, but BTN's subscribers are concentrated in areas that are going to be more interested in an Ohio State-Northwestern game. In Ohio and Chicagoland, that game is on everybody's basic cable package. FS2 is not. The Big Ten cares somewhat about that marginal Big Ten football fan in Ohio, the Big Ten does not care as much about you in Louisiana.

3. Viewing habits and established audiences. You don't find college football on FS2, so you don't look for CFB on FS2. (Big Ten) College football fan might have trouble finding FS2. He knows exactly what number BTN is in the channel listing.

Quo, you should remember this from the New Big East TV contract debates, about why anyone but ESPN would have to pay a premium because the New Big East would be the only thing on their network. FS2 is that sort of college sports desert.

(10-18-2019 04:20 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(10-18-2019 04:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I didn't know that contractually a B1G game can't be on FS2. Thanks.

But ... how do they count "households"? Is a household someone who actually gets the channel, pays for it and can watch it, or is a household one where it is merely available on one's package, even if you don't subscribe?

Most likely the latter. It’s available even though you don’t subscribe.

The Awful Announcing article used the term "subscribers."

FS2 and BTN are "available" to pretty much every cable subscriber in the US at this point.

(10-18-2019 05:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-18-2019 04:20 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(10-18-2019 04:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-18-2019 03:54 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Because the Big Ten can't be on FS2 per the media contract. Plus BTN is in more households nationwide than FS2 -- and is way more accessible than FS2 in the midwest.

I didn't know that contractually a B1G game can't be on FS2. Thanks.

But ... how do they count "households"? Is a household someone who actually gets the channel, pays for it and can watch it, or is a household one where it is merely available on one's package, even if you don't subscribe?

Most likely the latter. It’s available even though you don’t subscribe.

If so, then I would bet the number of people who actually can watch the game tonight would be higher on FS2 than on the BTN. The BTN might be "available" to 50 million households (or whatever) but I doubt anywhere close to 50 million are actually subscribing to it. In contrast, I bet a significantly higher percentage of FS2 "available" households can actually watch it, as this channel doesn't require its own specific subscription but rather is usually part of a generic sports bundle that more people get.

Nope. Subscriber numbers are roughly equal. "In more households" means subscribers. And BTN subscribers are more likely to watch OSU-NW than FS2 subscribers; and BTN viewers are even more likely to watch than FS2 viewers (who presumably prefer UFC or, tonight....college soccer.

EDIT: Baseless speculation--Fox traded this game to BTN for a game later in the season, possibly TBD.

(10-18-2019 05:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-18-2019 04:20 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(10-18-2019 04:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-18-2019 03:54 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Because the Big Ten can't be on FS2 per the media contract. Plus BTN is in more households nationwide than FS2 -- and is way more accessible than FS2 in the midwest.

I didn't know that contractually a B1G game can't be on FS2. Thanks.

But ... how do they count "households"? Is a household someone who actually gets the channel, pays for it and can watch it, or is a household one where it is merely available on one's package, even if you don't subscribe?

Most likely the latter. It’s available even though you don’t subscribe.

If so, then I would bet the number of people who actually can watch the game tonight would be higher on FS2 than on the BTN. The BTN might be "available" to 50 million households (or whatever) but I doubt anywhere close to 50 million are actually subscribing to it. In contrast, I bet a significantly higher percentage of FS2 "available" households can actually watch it, as this channel doesn't require its own specific subscription but rather is usually part of a generic sports bundle that more people get.

At least in the Big Ten footprint, BTN is virtually always on the basic tier (or whatever tier ESPN and FS1 would be on), whereas FS2 is hit or miss. So, as johnbragg noted, the concentration of subscribers in the Big Ten footprint that are more likely to watch a Big Ten football game is significantly higher on BTN. Also, BTN’s carriage rate is significantly higher than FS2 (especially within the Big Ten footprint), which means that BTN is actually the more valuable channel.

It would be no different for the ACC or SEC, where a game is more valuable on the ACCN or SECN than on ESPN News (which is essentially the FS2 equivalent at this point for Disney). ESPN News might technically have broader carriage than the conference networks, but the conference network subscribers are more concentrated in the markets most likely to watch those games at higher subscriber fee rates.

Ohio State is defending their All-Games Championship Belt tonight, how come a title match isn’t on Big FOX?!

(10-18-2019 05:32 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(10-18-2019 03:32 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  But why the BTN, a channel many of us - like me - don't subscribe to, rather than FS2, which basically comes in a package with FS1?

You've got some flawed assumptions in there.
1. FS2 may be packaged with FS1 in some areas, but not everywhere. According to this Awful Announcing graphic from March 2018, FS2 and BTN have comparable subscriber bases--58M for FS2, 57M for BTN. So just on that basis, it's a tossup. (Comparison: ESPN 87, ESPN2 87, FS1 84)

2. You're not the only market. FS2 and BTN both have about 55M-60M subscribers, but BTN's subscribers are concentrated in areas that are going to be more interested in an Ohio State-Northwestern game. In Ohio and Chicagoland, that game is on everybody's basic cable package. FS2 is not. The Big Ten cares somewhat about that marginal Big Ten football fan in Ohio, the Big Ten does not care as much about you in Louisiana.

3. Viewing habits and established audiences. You don't find college football on FS2, so you don't look for CFB on FS2. (Big Ten) College football fan might have trouble finding FS2. He knows exactly what number BTN is in the channel listing.

Quo, you should remember this from the New Big East TV contract debates, about why anyone but ESPN would have to pay a premium because the New Big East would be the only thing on their network. FS2 is that sort of college sports desert.

(10-18-2019 04:20 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(10-18-2019 04:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I didn't know that contractually a B1G game can't be on FS2. Thanks.

But ... how do they count "households"? Is a household someone who actually gets the channel, pays for it and can watch it, or is a household one where it is merely available on one's package, even if you don't subscribe?

Most likely the latter. It’s available even though you don’t subscribe.

The Awful Announcing article used the term "subscribers."

FS2 and BTN are "available" to pretty much every cable subscriber in the US at this point.

JB, i get most of that. This post was mostly me just kvetching, frustrated because i wanted to watch the game and would have if they hadn't moved it to BTN.

As it happened, I've enjoyed watching FAU vs Marshall, a very close game, and Syracuse vs Pitt.

(10-18-2019 09:14 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-18-2019 05:32 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(10-18-2019 03:32 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  But why the BTN, a channel many of us - like me - don't subscribe to, rather than FS2, which basically comes in a package with FS1?

You've got some flawed assumptions in there.
1. FS2 may be packaged with FS1 in some areas, but not everywhere. According to this Awful Announcing graphic from March 2018, FS2 and BTN have comparable subscriber bases--58M for FS2, 57M for BTN. So just on that basis, it's a tossup. (Comparison: ESPN 87, ESPN2 87, FS1 84)

2. You're not the only market. FS2 and BTN both have about 55M-60M subscribers, but BTN's subscribers are concentrated in areas that are going to be more interested in an Ohio State-Northwestern game. In Ohio and Chicagoland, that game is on everybody's basic cable package. FS2 is not. The Big Ten cares somewhat about that marginal Big Ten football fan in Ohio, the Big Ten does not care as much about you in Louisiana.

3. Viewing habits and established audiences. You don't find college football on FS2, so you don't look for CFB on FS2. (Big Ten) College football fan might have trouble finding FS2. He knows exactly what number BTN is in the channel listing.

Quo, you should remember this from the New Big East TV contract debates, about why anyone but ESPN would have to pay a premium because the New Big East would be the only thing on their network. FS2 is that sort of college sports desert.

(10-18-2019 04:20 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(10-18-2019 04:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I didn't know that contractually a B1G game can't be on FS2. Thanks.

But ... how do they count "households"? Is a household someone who actually gets the channel, pays for it and can watch it, or is a household one where it is merely available on one's package, even if you don't subscribe?

Most likely the latter. It’s available even though you don’t subscribe.

The Awful Announcing article used the term "subscribers."

FS2 and BTN are "available" to pretty much every cable subscriber in the US at this point.

JB, i get most of that. This post was mostly me just kvetching, frustrated because i wanted to watch the game and would have if they hadn't moved it to BTN.

As it happened, I've enjoyed watching FAU vs Marshall, a very close game, and Syracuse vs Pitt.

Your kvetching was informed by details that triggered me to respond, "Quo you should know better!!" So yes.

So Northwestern 5-star transfer quarterback from Clemson, who was rated #1 in his class by at least one publication, is now 4th string. 1st string (Trent Green’s son) got hurt, 2nd string threw 6/20 42 yards 8.6 QBR tonight, and 3rd string came in relief.

Northwestern’s offense ranks 130th — dead last — in FBS and scores 9.0 PPG.

While the 5* QB sits on the bench.

(10-18-2019 03:32 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Pissed off when I noticed that Ohio State vs Northwestern tonight (part of the new FOX contract where the B1G agreed to play some Friday games) is on the BTN.

It was originally on FS1, but then when an ALCS game was rained out the other night, that pushed the baseball schedule such that FOX had to find a place for a baseball game tonight, and so they bumped the football game from FS1.

But why the BTN, a channel many of us - like me - don't subscribe to, rather than FS2, which basically comes in a package with FS1?

Have to pay to watch. Multi-sports package on Dish. Personally, I did not care that I did not watch it (at work).