So looking at it since the year 2000.....

Losers
Temple obvious one.
Rutgers- still in power conference- but a lot tougher to compete
Idaho
New Mexico St
Southern Miss
East Carolina
UAB
Army
BYU

Winners:
Va Tech/Miami/BC/Syracuse/Pitt- got out of Big East and into a winnable situation with the ACC
Boise St- as we entered 2000, they were in the Big East.
Louisville(maybe the biggest winner)
Utah
TCU
UCF

It's a really interesting time frame to look at- and a whole lot different than just the '10s.

Lots of new info here, thanks!

(09-24-2019 04:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  So looking at it since the year 2000.....

Losers
Temple obvious one.
Rutgers- still in power conference- but a lot tougher to compete
Idaho
New Mexico St
Southern Miss
East Carolina
UAB
Army
BYU

Winners:
Va Tech/Miami/BC/Syracuse/Pitt- got out of Big East and into a winnable situation with the ACC
Boise St- as we entered 2000, they were in the Big East.
Louisville(maybe the biggest winner)
Utah
TCU
UCF

It's a really interesting time frame to look at- and a whole lot different than just the '10s.

Not sure how ECU is a loser. You could have called UCF a loser when they went through that winless season a few years back.

As for Rutgers, you should look at their record in the Big East. They're doing better now.

Marshall used to be with a lot of the present-day AAC and is now stuck in CUSA.

I would say UMass is a loser. They have to be independent to keep basketball in the A10 and no FBS conference is taking them for football only.

I would also add USF to the list of winners. They were IAA/FCS back in the late 90s.

Also Liberty went from an awful FCS conference and kicked the door to the FBS down as an independent just like that.

(09-24-2019 04:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-24-2019 04:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  So looking at it since the year 2000.....

Losers
Temple obvious one.
Rutgers- still in power conference- but a lot tougher to compete
Idaho
New Mexico St
Southern Miss
East Carolina
UAB
Army
BYU

Winners:
Va Tech/Miami/BC/Syracuse/Pitt- got out of Big East and into a winnable situation with the ACC
Boise St- as we entered 2000, they were in the Big East.
Louisville(maybe the biggest winner)
Utah
TCU
UCF

It's a really interesting time frame to look at- and a whole lot different than just the '10s.

Not sure how ECU is a loser. You could have called UCF a loser when they went through that winless season a few years back.

As for Rutgers, you should look at their record in the Big East. They're doing better now.

ECU is close... UCF is a winner due to they were only an indy when 2000 started...

Rutgers is interesting...

(09-24-2019 04:44 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Marshall used to be with a lot of the present-day AAC and is now stuck in CUSA.

I would say UMass is a loser. They have to be independent to keep basketball in the A10 and no FBS conference is taking them for football only.

I would also add USF to the list of winners. They were IAA/FCS back in the late 90s.

Also Liberty went from an awful FCS conference and kicked the door to the FBS down as an independent just like that.

Marshall in 2000 was in the MAC. It's at worst neutral.

UMass was FCS as well.

Do agree with you on Liberty. Also Charlotte.

(09-24-2019 05:00 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-24-2019 04:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-24-2019 04:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  So looking at it since the year 2000.....

Losers
Temple obvious one.
Rutgers- still in power conference- but a lot tougher to compete
Idaho
New Mexico St
Southern Miss
East Carolina
UAB
Army
BYU

Winners:
Va Tech/Miami/BC/Syracuse/Pitt- got out of Big East and into a winnable situation with the ACC
Boise St- as we entered 2000, they were in the Big East.
Louisville(maybe the biggest winner)
Utah
TCU
UCF

It's a really interesting time frame to look at- and a whole lot different than just the '10s.

Not sure how ECU is a loser. You could have called UCF a loser when they went through that winless season a few years back.

As for Rutgers, you should look at their record in the Big East. They're doing better now.

ECU is close... UCF is a winner due to they were only an indy when 2000 started...

Rutgers is interesting...

Louisiana Tech is a winner in the sense that they got out of a dying conference where they were a geographic outlier and into one that made sense from a travel standpoint.

In the early 2000s Utah State used to battle Idaho and NM State as the worst western team. They started to turn things around just before the big realignment of 2011, and ended up in the MWC. I would count them as a winner who barely escaped the loser label


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

If they were playing FBS (Div I-A) football in September 2000, I’d rank them like this:

Winners:

Boise State
Utah
TCU
Rutgers
Louisville
Syracuse
Pitt
Boston College
Virginia Tech
Cincinnati (2005-13)
South Florida (2005-13)
UConn (2004-2013)
Notre Dame
West Virginia
Texas A&M
Central Florida
San Jose State
Louisiana Tech
North Texas

Losers:

Temple
BYU
UTEP
Rice
Southern Miss
UAB
Marshall
Cincinnati (2014-Present)
South Florida (2014-Present)
UConn (2014-Present)
New Mexico State
Idaho
Wyoming
Colorado State
New Mexico
Air Force
UNLV
San Diego State

Neither a winner or a loser:

Miami
Maryland
Nebraska
Missouri
Colorado
SMU
East Carolina
Houston
Memphis
Tulane
Navy
Army
Utah State
Fresno State
Hawaii
The entire MAC
Arkansas State
Louisiana

Lamar as a loser. They could have been another WAC member with the other Texas schools that did get invited. Barry Switzer and Billy Tubbs got the ball rolling to rebuild the program and they have been getting better in the Southland. I am surprised that the WAC members turned them down at the time, but you would get a Big 8/Big 12 feel from the school. They were ahead of UTSA in better facilities at the time, but the Alamo Dome got them in.

James Madison and Delaware wants out of their weaken conference to be in C-USA.

MVFC merger with the WAC for FBS football fell through since Idaho refused to go. That was a key that would have saved the WAC. You may have gotten the 4 Dakota schools and W. Illinois as full members along with Omaha and UMKC. Oral Roberts get stuck in Southland. The survivors would get N. Colorado, Chicago State and D2 call ups. WAC would not have to call up Grand Canyon and California Baptist, but Dixie State might be a future FBS.

DavidSt, keep it on FBS programs that were classified as such in the early 2000s.

(09-24-2019 06:32 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  DavidSt, keep it on FBS programs that were classified as such in the early 2000s.

Stever did not say it had to be FBS. What I posted had to do directly with FBS conferences and the known facts from sports writers. Yes, Lamar was visited by WAC officials at the same time as others who are now in FBS. That was how close they became FBS. James Madison wants C-USA or AAC now.

(09-24-2019 05:55 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  If they were playing FBS (Div I-A) football in September 2000, I’d rank them like this:

Winners:

Boise State
Utah
TCU
Rutgers
Louisville
Syracuse
Pitt
Boston College
Virginia Tech
Cincinnati (2005-13)
South Florida (2005-13)
UConn (2004-2013)
Notre Dame
West Virginia
Texas A&M
Central Florida
San Jose State
Louisiana Tech
North Texas

Losers:

Temple
BYU
UTEP
Rice
Southern Miss
UAB
Marshall
Cincinnati (2014-Present)
South Florida (2014-Present)
UConn (2014-Present)
New Mexico State
Idaho
Wyoming
Colorado State
New Mexico
Air Force
UNLV
San Diego State

Neither a winner or a loser:

Miami
Maryland
Nebraska
Missouri
Colorado
SMU
East Carolina
Houston
Memphis
Tulane
Navy
Army
Utah State
Fresno State
Hawaii
The entire MAC
Arkansas State
Louisiana

I disagree with your assesments of programs like Syracuse, Pittsburgh, BC, and Virginia Tech. From Big East in 2000 to ACC in 2019- not really that much of a difference. And if you say that it is- then Miami should be in there as well..

I think for the ones that were in CUSA in 2000 to AAC in 2019- it's probably a positive. Teams like Cincy, Houston, Memphis, East Carolina, etc. The AAC in 2019 viewed a LOT stronger than CUSA was in 2000.

Marshall I just don't think you can say it's one way or the other for them.. Going from MAC 2000 to CUSA 2019- really not much of a difference...

(09-24-2019 07:06 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-24-2019 06:32 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  DavidSt, keep it on FBS programs that were classified as such in the early 2000s.

Stever did not say it had to be FBS. What I posted had to do directly with FBS conferences and the known facts from sports writers. Yes, Lamar was visited by WAC officials at the same time as others who are now in FBS. That was how close they became FBS. James Madison wants C-USA or AAC now.

realistically though- how are they in 2019 compared to 2000? They're both pretty close to the same on both checkpoints.

(09-24-2019 05:00 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-24-2019 04:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-24-2019 04:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  So looking at it since the year 2000.....

Losers
Temple obvious one.
Rutgers- still in power conference- but a lot tougher to compete
Idaho
New Mexico St
Southern Miss
East Carolina
UAB
Army
BYU

Winners:
Va Tech/Miami/BC/Syracuse/Pitt- got out of Big East and into a winnable situation with the ACC
Boise St- as we entered 2000, they were in the Big East.
Louisville(maybe the biggest winner)
Utah
TCU
UCF

It's a really interesting time frame to look at- and a whole lot different than just the '10s.

Not sure how ECU is a loser. You could have called UCF a loser when they went through that winless season a few years back.

As for Rutgers, you should look at their record in the Big East. They're doing better now.

ECU is close... UCF is a winner due to they were only an indy when 2000 started...

Rutgers is interesting...

Yes it is. Since I'm not the AD balancing the budget, I would still prefer the Big East 2.0, as dysfunctional as it was, to the Big 10, particularly during basketball season. We had a long relationship with the schools nearest to us; at least we still have Seton Hall on the schedule annually.

Interestingly, my alma mater Cincinnati has occupied the winner and loser categories since 2000. When the Bearcats left CUSA to join the then BCS Big East in 2005 it was a coup for our football and basketball programs. When the Big East broke apart to include basketball only schools in 2013 we fell into the American and have since been unable to find a spot in the P5. The American is a solid conference from the G5 but let's not kid ourselves that it is anywhere near the media rights money, NY6 bowl tie-ins, and CFP access of the P5.

My thoughts:


1) Any school that was not in a Power conference in 2000 and is in one now is a Big Winner.

2) Any school that was in a Power conference in 2000 but not in one now is a Big Loser.

3) Any school that was in the Big East in 2000, but is now in a P5 conference, is a Winner.

4) Any school that was not in a Power conference in 2000 and is not in one today can in no way be called a winner not even a small one. Shuffling among G5 or G5-Indy is just different jobs in the galley of the ship. Their status is essentially unchanged. So stuff like "in 2000 we were in the Sun Belt and today we are in CUSA, but CUSA today is better than the SB was in 2000 so we are a Winner" is pure turd polishing.

(09-25-2019 09:45 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Interestingly, my alma mater Cincinnati has occupied the winner and loser categories since 2000. When the Bearcats left CUSA to join the then BCS Big East in 2005 it was a coup for our football and basketball programs. When the Big East broke apart to include basketball only schools in 2013 we fell into the American and have since been unable to find a spot in the P5. The American is a solid conference from the G5 but let's not kid ourselves that it is anywhere near the media rights money, NY6 bowl tie-ins, and CFP access of the P5.

That's fair. But I'd say from 2000 to today, they're a winner. The AAC is a lot stronger conference than 2000 CUSA was- especially in football.

(09-25-2019 09:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  My thoughts:


1) Any school that was not in a Power conference in 2000 and is in one now is a Big Winner.

2) Any school that was in a Power conference in 2000 but not in one now is a Big Loser.

3) Any school that was in the Big East in 2000, but is now in a P5 conference, is a Winner.

4) Any school that was not in a Power conference in 2000 and is not in one today can in no way be called a winner not even a small one. Shuffling among G5 or G5-Indy is just different jobs in the galley of the ship. Their status is essentially unchanged. So stuff like "in 2000 we were in the Sun Belt and today we are in CUSA, but CUSA today is better than the SB was in 2000 so we are a Winner" is pure turd polishing.

I'd agree with 1-3. 4 I totally disagree with. For a Boise St for instance to go from the Big West to today in the MWC- that's a HUGE jump up. And yes, to go from CUSA in 2000 to AAC today- that also is a huge jump up for football. CUSA football in 2000 you had no chance in hell of ever making a BCS bowl. If you win the AAC in 2019, you have a damn good chance of making an access bowl. And even in basketball- it's pretty close to a push.

Basketball programs like Butler, Creighton, Davidson, DePaul, George Mason, Marquette, VCU, Wichita State and Xavier are all winners too. Each of them moved up the college basketball ladder into bigger and better conferences, an overwhelming majority of them due to on-court basketball success.