(09-20-2019 02:30 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-20-2019 01:15 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Arkansas is one of those schools that honestly could fit in multiple leagues. At the time it sat at the crossroads of the B8, SWC and SEC and could have been in any of them.

Would Arkansas have done better in the B12?

Possibly but not necessarily

And here’s the thing: up until the SEC Network happened there has always been nothing stopping Arkansas from going to the Big 12. There still isn’t much stopping them today.

But a conference totally and utterly dependent on one of their most hated rivals and that only exists on their whim has never interested Piggy.

That this surprises some people seems odd.

I think the SEC & Big 10 have stayed stable because the historic powerhouses (Alabama, Ohio State, and Michigan) aren't in the biggest population center at the center of the conference (Atlanta & Chicago). The football powerhouses in the SEC & Big 10 also generally aren't the strongest academic schools that the University Presidents like to schmooze with. So everyone needs each other.

But in the SWC & Big 12, the conference was centered on Dallas & to a lesser extent the rest of the Texas Triangle. The Longhorns have the biggest fanbase throughout most of that region, and they're the best academic school in both conferences (other than arguably Rice).

Basically, there was no one who could tell Texas, "no."

I'm not sure where you're getting your information but Michigan has always been a SPECTACULAR academic school. In the last 20 years Ohio State's standards have increased so much that we are the rarified air of Michigan and Berkley. The B1G is a phenomenal collection of academic schools second only to the Ivy league in terms of reputation.

(09-20-2019 04:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Well, Arkansas won their hoops national title while in the SEC.

Also, the SWC ceased to exist 3 years after they left, so arguably good timing.

Agree they did win the Title in 1994 but that was a particular coach I paid homage to in the intro. I'll restate the question that I asked earlier. What has Arkansas hoops done since Nolan left... Come to think of it, I don't even know who their coach is right now so I'll have to Google it.

(09-20-2019 02:53 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Everyone wants to be in the biggest/best conferences but they tend to forget that makes it increasingly unlikely to win them. With 8/10 team conferences and co-champs, everyone had a lot more years when they were either conference champs or deep in the race. The cost of these mega conferences with ccgs is that even major programs now can go decades without a championship if things go badly and smaller programs (or even not so small) can see their once every 20 year or so championship far less likely.

Very good point. The odds are better to win as 1 out of 8, 9, or 10 as opposed to 14. Throw in the championship games and the lack of the possibility of a tie and you have a recipe for long droughts of conference champs... Excellent Analysis!

(09-20-2019 02:30 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Arkansas and Nebraska are cautionary tales of what happens when you go to a stronger conference. Yes, there’s more money, exposure and stability. Some of their struggles are self-inflicted. But when people on this board start throwing scenarios where Oklahoma goes to the SEC or Big Ten, what they forget is the Sooners only have to look at the schools in Lincoln and Fayetteville, schools that used to have strong football programs and ask themselves if they want to go that route even though they’ll be making more money. Even worse, do they want to run the risk of being an irrelevant program like their old Big 8 rivals Colorado and Missouri?

Asked any team that has been left out and they'll tell you that it's easier to wallow in misery with rolls of cash. You may lose relevance but at least you can make payroll.

(09-20-2019 09:40 AM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  I'm feeling like a ramble so here it goes... Not trying to throw shade but when was the last time Arkansas was truly relevant on a national level. I'm thinking the McFadden years and the wildcat formation popularized by those Arkansas teams but in neither Basketball nor football have the Hogs been as relevant as they were in the SWC.
I could say "40 minutes of hell" and if you are of a certain age or an extremely well-informed basketball fan and you will immediately think about the early 90s teams of Nolan Richardson. For those that don't know he blew up at a presser one day and offended basically everybody in Arkansas so he had to go, but what has Arkansas done since he left in hoops?
Football has never been able to recover from the loss of playing in Texas every other week and frankly having weaker competition. The SWC was primarily Texas, Texas A&M, and Arkansas with occasional smatterings of competence from SMU or Houston or whomever but it wasn't the SEC week in and week out.
In the SWC, Arkansas was one of the Big Dogs, in the SEC they are most decidedly NOT. Even in their own division I would rank them 5, 6, or 7 in their division most years along with the Mississippi schools.
In the final analysis, Arkansas did the right thing for their budget but I still think, and believe most of their fans think that after the breakup of the SWC Arkansas has become a much wealthier but far less competitive shadow of it's former self.

I agree.
Nebraska, take note.

It boils down to "resources and prestige" vs. "results."

If you want the latter, stay in the SWC if you're Arkansas. If you want the former, go to the SEC and don't look back.

Many of us (I've been guilty of this) think like fans. We must (as Frank the Tank notes) think like university chancellors. When we do, it really doesn't matter if Arkansas has not been as successful on the court and field in the SEC as it was in the SWC.

I realize that sounds cynical, but it's the reality.

(09-20-2019 04:39 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-20-2019 03:53 PM)Jackson1011 Wrote:  You can say the exact same thing about Penn St and the BIG

Jackson

Penn State has 2 outright Big Ten titles and 2 other Big Ten co-championships.

Penn State has won at least 9 games in 17 of 26 seasons since joining the Big Ten.

Arkansas has won at least 9 games only 6 times in 27 seasons in the SEC.

And Penn St had two national championships in the decade before joining the BIG. Don’t get me wrong they haven’t fallen off the map but two conference titles in almost 30 years isn’t super impressive when considering what they were before

Jackson

(09-20-2019 04:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Well, Arkansas won their hoops national title while in the SEC.

Also, the SWC ceased to exist 3 years after they left, so arguably good timing.

Tend to agree. Broyles couldn't sell tickets (most SWC schools couldn't), were not on TV enough to recruit, and basically, was a revolving door to the then NCAA Overland Park office with 30% of the teams were on probation every season.

Had they took Baylor's Big XII slot, they would've fought Okie State for the same talent in the fight to 3rd in a good season and 2nd to OU in a great one.

(09-20-2019 06:39 PM)Jackson1011 Wrote:  

(09-20-2019 04:39 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-20-2019 03:53 PM)Jackson1011 Wrote:  You can say the exact same thing about Penn St and the BIG

Jackson

Penn State has 2 outright Big Ten titles and 2 other Big Ten co-championships.

Penn State has won at least 9 games in 17 of 26 seasons since joining the Big Ten.

Arkansas has won at least 9 games only 6 times in 27 seasons in the SEC.

And Penn St had two national championships in the decade before joining the BIG. Don’t get me wrong they haven’t fallen off the map but two conference titles in almost 30 years isn’t super impressive when considering what they were before

Jackson

If the B1G and Pac 10 had let the Rose Bowl join the Bowl Alliance earlier, PSU would have had a chance to play for the MNC vs. Nebraska instead of having an undefeated season in 1994 and no MNC.

http://www.collegepollarchive.com/footba...YWSslLtwTQ

(09-20-2019 02:30 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Arkansas and Nebraska are cautionary tales of what happens when you go to a stronger conference. Yes, there’s more money, exposure and stability. Some of their struggles are self-inflicted. But when people on this board start throwing scenarios where Oklahoma goes to the SEC or Big Ten, what they forget is the Sooners only have to look at the schools in Lincoln and Fayetteville, schools that used to have strong football programs and ask themselves if they want to go that route even though they’ll be making more money. Even worse, do they want to run the risk of being an irrelevant program like their old Big 8 rivals Colorado and Missouri?

Nebraska's been in a slow but very noticeable decline since well before they joined the Big Ten. The only reason why they were consistently winning 9 games at the end of PeLLLLini's tenure is the rest of the North was getting worse with them. Kansas State and Colorado had fallen off and Missouri couldn't get it together consistently enough to pick up the slack.

Maybe Hogs should resurrect the SWC...

Arkansas
Arkansas State
Houston
Rice
North Texas
SMU
Texas State
Tulsa
UTSA
UTEP

BOAM!

(09-20-2019 10:53 PM)fresnofanatic Wrote:  Maybe Hogs should resurrect the SWC...

Arkansas
Arkansas State
Houston
Rice
North Texas
SMU
Texas State
Tulsa
UTSA
UTEP

BOAM!

And that group would have to broker for TV time.

(09-20-2019 10:58 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  

(09-20-2019 10:53 PM)fresnofanatic Wrote:  Maybe Hogs should resurrect the SWC...

Arkansas
Arkansas State
Houston
Rice
North Texas
SMU
Texas State
Tulsa
UTSA
UTEP

BOAM!

And that group would have to broker for TV time.

But eventually Arkansas would be tops of its conference again...I think???

(09-20-2019 10:53 PM)fresnofanatic Wrote:  Maybe Hogs should resurrect the SWC...

Arkansas
Arkansas State
Houston
Rice
North Texas
SMU
Texas State
Tulsa
UTSA
UTEP

BOAM!

The pigs actually sharing a conference with the Red Wolves? The apocalypse will happen first.

If I had a choice, I would prefer Arkansas over a small private school in Ft. Worth.

(09-20-2019 11:28 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-20-2019 11:10 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  If Arkansas stuck with the SWC/BXII group, they would be an annual top-25 program and have flirted with a national title their share of times.

Nope. At no point in Arkansas' time in the SEC have the Hogs had a football coach that would have been one of the 4 best coaches in either the SEC or Big 12. They had a run of questionable football coaching hires that had nothing to do with their conference. On top of that, Big 12 football has been better and, more importantly, deeper than SWC football during the Hogs' last decade in that conference, so SWC success during that time doesn't mean they would have been great in Big 12 football.

Houston Nutt would have been a legend if not for The Fumble. That was a pivotal turn, granted they would have had to have dealt with Tennessee again that year. I think they win the title if they win that game.

(09-21-2019 12:10 AM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  If I had a choice, I would prefer Arkansas over a small private school in Ft. Worth.

How old are you? I am guessing the way you act about 10.

(09-20-2019 04:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Well, Arkansas won their hoops national title while in the SEC.

That’s what I was going to point out, although I don’t think it had to do with the SEC. There were few decent teams in the conference at that time like Kentucky, Vandy (flash in the pan in the early 90’s), LSU (Shaq), and Florida (had a deep run). Overall the Hogs blew that conference open mainly due to Richardson peaking as a coach, not because it was prestigious. It’s never been the premier basketball league of the south.

(09-20-2019 05:37 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  

(09-20-2019 02:30 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-20-2019 01:15 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Arkansas is one of those schools that honestly could fit in multiple leagues. At the time it sat at the crossroads of the B8, SWC and SEC and could have been in any of them.

Would Arkansas have done better in the B12?

Possibly but not necessarily

And here’s the thing: up until the SEC Network happened there has always been nothing stopping Arkansas from going to the Big 12. There still isn’t much stopping them today.

But a conference totally and utterly dependent on one of their most hated rivals and that only exists on their whim has never interested Piggy.

That this surprises some people seems odd.

I think the SEC & Big 10 have stayed stable because the historic powerhouses (Alabama, Ohio State, and Michigan) aren't in the biggest population center at the center of the conference (Atlanta & Chicago). The football powerhouses in the SEC & Big 10 also generally aren't the strongest academic schools that the University Presidents like to schmooze with. So everyone needs each other.

But in the SWC & Big 12, the conference was centered on Dallas & to a lesser extent the rest of the Texas Triangle. The Longhorns have the biggest fanbase throughout most of that region, and they're the best academic school in both conferences (other than arguably Rice).

Basically, there was no one who could tell Texas, "no."

I'm not sure where you're getting your information but Michigan has always been a SPECTACULAR academic school. In the last 20 years Ohio State's standards have increased so much that we are the rarified air of Michigan and Berkley. The B1G is a phenomenal collection of academic schools second only to the Ivy league in terms of reputation.

Common misconception going on here: Michigan athletes are not held to the same standard as the rest of the student population. Neither are Carolina athletes (that was for the haters).

Notre Dame, Stanford, Rice, Northwestern, and some others are the few where the standards of the athletes are the same as the rest of the students.

Never gonna happen but it would have be hella fun.

Arkansas
Missouri
KU
KSU
ISU
Nebraska

OU
OSU
UT
A&M
Tech
TCU