Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
The Nooch
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
Longhorn Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,542
Joined: Oct 2012
Reputation: 34
I Root For: JMU
Location:
Post: #21
RE: The Nooch
(09-01-2019 02:48 PM)2Buck Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 01:54 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 01:49 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 11:38 AM)2Buck Wrote:  Agree he seems to be doing better this year, but he still made some bad throws/decisions. He tried to force a touchdown pass that nearly got picked off.

The play was a TD to Stapleton, and it was a well thrown ball, it was just a better play by the defender who got a stretched out hand to knock the ball down. If DiNucci had the skill to throw harder the pass probably would have beaten the defenders out-stretched hand, but it wasn’t a near pick, just a good play by the DB with one (1) outstretched hand.

Yeah I agree(just off of seeing it live and no replays later so for what it's worth). I thought Nooch was maybe a hair late on the throw, but other than that I thought it was a good route, well placed ball, and just a great recovery by the DB who was beaten initially.

It wasn't the guy trailing Stapleton that was the issue. There was a DB in the end zone that, had he played the ball instead of Stapleton, would have picked it off.

Nooch just sometimes has tunnel vision for the receiver without reading defender positions well enough. At game speed of course this is all incredibly difficult to do but it's a skill he needs to work on.

[Image: lfzsCtN.jpg]

Not sure what you’re seeing. Stapleton had position on the other DB, who was on Stapleton’s back. There was no way the other DB could “play the ball” without running over/through Stapleton, and Stapleton’s substantial size advantage would have made that impossible, or would have resulted in a PI in the end zone. Without the other excellent DB play the ball would have been caught for a TD. Ben saw the play develop the way it was designed, he just didn’t get the ball there soon enough because he doesn’t have a pure rocket for an arm and/or the throw was a little late.
09-01-2019 03:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
fishingduke12 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,465
Joined: Sep 2018
Reputation: 8
I Root For: JMU
Location: NYC
Post: #22
RE: The Nooch
(09-01-2019 03:10 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 02:48 PM)2Buck Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 01:54 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 01:49 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 11:38 AM)2Buck Wrote:  Agree he seems to be doing better this year, but he still made some bad throws/decisions. He tried to force a touchdown pass that nearly got picked off.

The play was a TD to Stapleton, and it was a well thrown ball, it was just a better play by the defender who got a stretched out hand to knock the ball down. If DiNucci had the skill to throw harder the pass probably would have beaten the defenders out-stretched hand, but it wasn’t a near pick, just a good play by the DB with one (1) outstretched hand.

Yeah I agree(just off of seeing it live and no replays later so for what it's worth). I thought Nooch was maybe a hair late on the throw, but other than that I thought it was a good route, well placed ball, and just a great recovery by the DB who was beaten initially.

It wasn't the guy trailing Stapleton that was the issue. There was a DB in the end zone that, had he played the ball instead of Stapleton, would have picked it off.

Nooch just sometimes has tunnel vision for the receiver without reading defender positions well enough. At game speed of course this is all incredibly difficult to do but it's a skill he needs to work on.

[Image: lfzsCtN.jpg]

Not sure what you’re seeing. Stapleton had position on the other DB, who was on Stapleton’s back. There was no way the other DB could “play the ball” without running over/through Stapleton, and Stapleton’s substantial size advantage would have made that impossible, or would have resulted in a PI in the end zone. Without the other excellent DB play the ball would have been caught for a TD. Ben saw the play develop the way it was designed, he just didn’t get the ball there soon enough because he doesn’t have a pure rocket for an arm and/or the throw was a little late.

He's seeing a DB waiting to undercut the pass which, as 2buck pointed out, decided to play the receiver and not the ball. The ball was between stapleton and the DB in the endzone so why would he have to run through him to get there? The only way that pass is completed is if he throws it to the back of the endzone with some air to let him go up for it.
09-01-2019 04:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Longhorn Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,542
Joined: Oct 2012
Reputation: 34
I Root For: JMU
Location:
Post: #23
RE: The Nooch
(09-01-2019 04:18 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 03:10 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 02:48 PM)2Buck Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 01:54 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 01:49 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  The play was a TD to Stapleton, and it was a well thrown ball, it was just a better play by the defender who got a stretched out hand to knock the ball down. If DiNucci had the skill to throw harder the pass probably would have beaten the defenders out-stretched hand, but it wasn’t a near pick, just a good play by the DB with one (1) outstretched hand.

Yeah I agree(just off of seeing it live and no replays later so for what it's worth). I thought Nooch was maybe a hair late on the throw, but other than that I thought it was a good route, well placed ball, and just a great recovery by the DB who was beaten initially.

It wasn't the guy trailing Stapleton that was the issue. There was a DB in the end zone that, had he played the ball instead of Stapleton, would have picked it off.

Nooch just sometimes has tunnel vision for the receiver without reading defender positions well enough. At game speed of course this is all incredibly difficult to do but it's a skill he needs to work on.

[Image: lfzsCtN.jpg]

Not sure what you’re seeing. Stapleton had position on the other DB, who was on Stapleton’s back. There was no way the other DB could “play the ball” without running over/through Stapleton, and Stapleton’s substantial size advantage would have made that impossible, or would have resulted in a PI in the end zone. Without the other excellent DB play the ball would have been caught for a TD. Ben saw the play develop the way it was designed, he just didn’t get the ball there soon enough because he doesn’t have a pure rocket for an arm and/or the throw was a little late.

He's seeing a DB waiting to undercut the pass which, as 2buck pointed out, decided to play the receiver and not the ball. The ball was between stapleton and the DB in the endzone so why would he have to run through him to get there? The only way that pass is completed is if he throws it to the back of the endzone with some air to let him go up for it.

You’re looking at a still image. If you’ve got a video replay you’ll see that the other DB ended up behind Stapleton. I’ve seen the video replay. The ball was about 1 foot from Stapleton’s hands when the second DB stretch out 1 hand and knocked it away saving the score.
09-01-2019 04:32 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
KickItToScotty Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,364
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 15
I Root For: JMU
Location: VA
Post: #24
RE: The Nooch
Yeah after watching the replay, if he’d hit Stapleton in stride it’s probably picked off. He put it a little behind him, the safety couldn’t get to it but that let the corner recover and get a hand on it.
09-01-2019 05:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Purple Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,991
Joined: Sep 2017
Reputation: 38
I Root For: JMU
Location: The heart of Texas
Post: #25
RE: The Nooch
(09-01-2019 07:07 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 06:20 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  
(08-31-2019 10:01 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  I agree I'd like for him to just pack it in and take the sack sometimes as much as it sucks. I'm not sure if he's going to learn that at this point. There were a few times today where I yelled "Get rid of it!" but it's not in his blood.

I think that's his problem- he's too quick to tuck and run. He needs to get better on rolling out and passing on the run. He doesn't do enough of that but obviously to his side of the field not across his body/across the field he doesn't have the arm for that. I think at times he needs the space outside the pocket to see the receivers- he's not the tallest QB.

You do realize his runs yesterday were planned QB draws or read options? He executed those plays extremely well. He was not “tucking and running” on his own, except when WVU brought the house and our pass-blocking failed to protect him.

As for his height, he’s plenty tall enough to see down the field, and his arm strength is sufficient to make most of the throws he needs to make. He’s not the perfect QB. He’s not 6’5” or have a cannon for an arm. Sometimes he makes bad decisions. He made one yesterday running to his left on a scramble and did not set his feet and floated a ball down the middle of the field into double coverage. That was a really dumb thing to do. If anything, he was trying too hard to make something positive happen, when once outside the pocket he should have just thrown the ball out of bounds past the line of scrimmage.

All that said, Ben is athletic, and strong, and his passing is accurate. He does an excellent job on the read option, and his legs will make opponents play us honest, both on the run and pass. His job is ultimately to manage the game and get the ball into our playmaker’s hands, and JMU has a wealth of talented skill players. It’s their job not to fumble, and they too failed to make good on that yesterday. So don’t lay yesterday’s loss off on Ben, or start diagnosing his skill set making mountains out of molehills.

I agree with that 100%. I am really sick of the Nooch haters.
09-01-2019 05:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
2Buck Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,071
Joined: Mar 2014
Reputation: 148
I Root For: James Madison
Location: Big pile of CAA-CAA
Post: #26
RE: The Nooch
Ok, it appears this is going to drag on.

Disclaimer: This is not a condemnation of Ben, he's a good guy, bleeds purple, etc, etc. I don't enjoy having to go to great lengths to hammer on negative things about people I don't think should be hammered on (totally fine taking the time for people that do deserve it). My whole point of this original comment was reading coverage and decision-making, especially under pressure, are areas that could really use improvement.

Exhibit 1: At release of the ball, Ben is inside the hash mark, the ball's basic trajectory is along the hash mark, and as you can see the DB #4 is just inside the hash mark squared up and facing Ben- merely feet away from where the ball was targeted.

[Image: gKUY4dJ.jpg]

Exhibit 2: As the ball travels, Dylan is crossing the goal line while #4 is straddling the goal line, but it becomes too late for him to make a play on the ball as he begins to turn his body and commits to playing Dylan.

[Image: lfzsCtN.jpg]

Exhibit 3: As the ball approaches, Dylan is the deepest player in the endzone. The guy covering him is diving for the ball and #4 is now squared up on Dylan and doesn't seem to even be looking at the ball anymore.

[Image: scmcGoT.jpg]

Exhibit 4: I have no idea what DB # 4 was thinking, apparently waiting for the ball to reach Dylan and rip it out? Regardless, he ignores the ball and seems to swipe at Dylan's empty arms having lost sight of the ball and not realizing it never reached him. At no point was #4 behind Dylan. He was originally well-positioned between Dylan and the ball.

If #4 had simply tracked the ball an scampered along the goal line it would have been an INT with no JMU players much outside the hash mark to stop him.

[Image: w2j4sBP.jpg]

Exhibit 5: Either Ben limited his focus to the right of the hash mark (which was the path of his throw) since he didn't see the DB within a few feet of his path, or he just didn't think the DB could make a play. Either way I see that as a mistake by not scanning to read what defenders might be in the path of the throw or the receiver. One of only a few, he did well otherwise. Others may continue to disagree but you can't sit there and just make things up to support your argument.

[Image: ogURrui.jpg]
09-01-2019 06:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
fishingduke12 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,465
Joined: Sep 2018
Reputation: 8
I Root For: JMU
Location: NYC
Post: #27
RE: The Nooch
(09-01-2019 06:45 PM)2Buck Wrote:  Ok, it appears this is going to drag on.

Disclaimer: This is not a condemnation of Ben, he's a good guy, bleeds purple, etc, etc. I don't enjoy having to go to great lengths to hammer on negative things about people I don't think should be hammered on (totally fine taking the time for people that do deserve it). My whole point of this original comment was reading coverage and decision-making, especially under pressure, are areas that could really use improvement.

Exhibit 1: At release of the ball, Ben is inside the hash mark, the ball's basic trajectory is along the hash mark, and as you can see the DB #4 is just inside the hash mark squared up and facing Ben- merely feet away from where the ball was targeted.

[Image: gKUY4dJ.jpg]

Exhibit 2: As the ball travels, Dylan is crossing the goal line while #4 is straddling the goal line, but it becomes too late for him to make a play on the ball as he begins to turn his body and commits to playing Dylan.

[Image: lfzsCtN.jpg]

Exhibit 3: As the ball approaches, Dylan is the deepest player in the endzone. The guy covering him is diving for the ball and #4 is now squared up on Dylan and doesn't seem to even be looking at the ball anymore.

[Image: scmcGoT.jpg]

Exhibit 4: I have no idea what DB # 4 was thinking, apparently waiting for the ball to reach Dylan and rip it out? Regardless, he ignores the ball and seems to swipe at Dylan's empty arms having lost sight of the ball and not realizing it never reached him. At no point was #4 behind Dylan. He was originally well-positioned between Dylan and the ball.

If #4 had simply tracked the ball an scampered along the goal line it would have been an INT with no JMU players much outside the hash mark to stop him.

[Image: w2j4sBP.jpg]

Exhibit 5: Either Ben limited his focus to the right of the hash mark (which was the path of his throw) since he didn't see the DB within a few feet of his path, or he just didn't think the DB could make a play. Either way I see that as a mistake by not scanning to read what defenders might be in the path of the throw or the receiver. One of only a few, he did well otherwise. Others may continue to disagree but you can't sit there and just make things up to support your argument.

[Image: ogURrui.jpg]

Great job with the breakdown 2Buck! Agreed it wasnt the best decision but still think if he throws it deeper with some air it would have given stapleton the best shot at it. Goes back to throwing the receivers open
09-01-2019 07:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
olddawg Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,764
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 45
I Root For: JMU
Location: Raleigh, NC
Post: #28
RE: The Nooch
I see those stills, especially the pic one post above, and wonder if he could have hit Jake Brown. Realize that it's a quick decision play but.....
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2019 07:37 PM by olddawg.)
09-01-2019 07:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
KickItToScotty Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,364
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 15
I Root For: JMU
Location: VA
Post: #29
RE: The Nooch
(09-01-2019 07:35 PM)olddawg Wrote:  I see those stills, especially the pic one post above, and wonder if he could have hit Jake Brown. Realize that it's a quick decision play but.....

Yeah my first thought when I went back and watched it was how much of a freebie Jake Brown would've had if he'd had a post route instead of corner.
09-01-2019 07:48 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JMaddy Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,489
Joined: Jul 2013
Reputation: 19
I Root For: JMU
Location:
Post: #30
RE: The Nooch
(09-01-2019 07:48 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 07:35 PM)olddawg Wrote:  I see those stills, especially the pic one post above, and wonder if he could have hit Jake Brown. Realize that it's a quick decision play but.....

Yeah my first thought when I went back and watched it was how much of a freebie Jake Brown would've had if he'd had a post route instead of corner.

Yeah they need to relook at the routes on that formation. Even if he just runs a seam (post or skinny post) route instead of the corner we'd force the S to make a decision and give Nooch two options within a smaller viewing radius to make the read.
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2019 10:09 PM by JMaddy.)
09-01-2019 10:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
94computerguy Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 357
Joined: Sep 2015
Reputation: 3
I Root For: JMU
Location:
Post: #31
RE: The Nooch
(09-01-2019 06:45 PM)2Buck Wrote:  Ok, it appears this is going to drag on.

Disclaimer: This is not a condemnation of Ben, he's a good guy, bleeds purple, etc, etc. I don't enjoy having to go to great lengths to hammer on negative things about people I don't think should be hammered on (totally fine taking the time for people that do deserve it). My whole point of this original comment was reading coverage and decision-making, especially under pressure, are areas that could really use improvement.

Exhibit 1: At release of the ball, Ben is inside the hash mark, the ball's basic trajectory is along the hash mark, and as you can see the DB #4 is just inside the hash mark squared up and facing Ben- merely feet away from where the ball was targeted.

[Image: gKUY4dJ.jpg]

Exhibit 2: As the ball travels, Dylan is crossing the goal line while #4 is straddling the goal line, but it becomes too late for him to make a play on the ball as he begins to turn his body and commits to playing Dylan.

[Image: lfzsCtN.jpg]

Exhibit 3: As the ball approaches, Dylan is the deepest player in the endzone. The guy covering him is diving for the ball and #4 is now squared up on Dylan and doesn't seem to even be looking at the ball anymore.

[Image: scmcGoT.jpg]

Exhibit 4: I have no idea what DB # 4 was thinking, apparently waiting for the ball to reach Dylan and rip it out? Regardless, he ignores the ball and seems to swipe at Dylan's empty arms having lost sight of the ball and not realizing it never reached him. At no point was #4 behind Dylan. He was originally well-positioned between Dylan and the ball.

If #4 had simply tracked the ball an scampered along the goal line it would have been an INT with no JMU players much outside the hash mark to stop him.

[Image: w2j4sBP.jpg]

Exhibit 5: Either Ben limited his focus to the right of the hash mark (which was the path of his throw) since he didn't see the DB within a few feet of his path, or he just didn't think the DB could make a play. Either way I see that as a mistake by not scanning to read what defenders might be in the path of the throw or the receiver. One of only a few, he did well otherwise. Others may continue to disagree but you can't sit there and just make things up to support your argument.

[Image: ogURrui.jpg]

That also means the slot left receiver was WIDE OPEN. That safety had committed to Stapleton, the left corner was covering the left flanker coming up the sideline (his hips are turned outward) and the other safety had come up to cover the curl route.

Bad decision.
(This post was last modified: 09-02-2019 01:55 PM by 94computerguy.)
09-02-2019 01:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JMaddy Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,489
Joined: Jul 2013
Reputation: 19
I Root For: JMU
Location:
Post: #32
RE: The Nooch
(09-02-2019 01:53 PM)94computerguy Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 06:45 PM)2Buck Wrote:  Ok, it appears this is going to drag on.

Disclaimer: This is not a condemnation of Ben, he's a good guy, bleeds purple, etc, etc. I don't enjoy having to go to great lengths to hammer on negative things about people I don't think should be hammered on (totally fine taking the time for people that do deserve it). My whole point of this original comment was reading coverage and decision-making, especially under pressure, are areas that could really use improvement.

Exhibit 1: At release of the ball, Ben is inside the hash mark, the ball's basic trajectory is along the hash mark, and as you can see the DB #4 is just inside the hash mark squared up and facing Ben- merely feet away from where the ball was targeted.

[Image: gKUY4dJ.jpg]

Exhibit 2: As the ball travels, Dylan is crossing the goal line while #4 is straddling the goal line, but it becomes too late for him to make a play on the ball as he begins to turn his body and commits to playing Dylan.

[Image: lfzsCtN.jpg]

Exhibit 3: As the ball approaches, Dylan is the deepest player in the endzone. The guy covering him is diving for the ball and #4 is now squared up on Dylan and doesn't seem to even be looking at the ball anymore.

[Image: scmcGoT.jpg]

Exhibit 4: I have no idea what DB # 4 was thinking, apparently waiting for the ball to reach Dylan and rip it out? Regardless, he ignores the ball and seems to swipe at Dylan's empty arms having lost sight of the ball and not realizing it never reached him. At no point was #4 behind Dylan. He was originally well-positioned between Dylan and the ball.

If #4 had simply tracked the ball an scampered along the goal line it would have been an INT with no JMU players much outside the hash mark to stop him.

[Image: w2j4sBP.jpg]

Exhibit 5: Either Ben limited his focus to the right of the hash mark (which was the path of his throw) since he didn't see the DB within a few feet of his path, or he just didn't think the DB could make a play. Either way I see that as a mistake by not scanning to read what defenders might be in the path of the throw or the receiver. One of only a few, he did well otherwise. Others may continue to disagree but you can't sit there and just make things up to support your argument.

[Image: ogURrui.jpg]

That also means the slot left receiver was WIDE OPEN. That safety had committed to Stapleton, the left corner was covering the left flanker coming up the sideline (his hips are turned outward) and the other safety had come up to cover the curl route.

Bad decision.

Except our slot receiver (Jake Brown) is running a corner "Flag" pattern and will be covered in the end zone by the time the ball gets there by the deep nickel back and the sidelines. The flanker (is that Polk?) appears to be running an "Dig" but if Nooch looked out that way it would appear like he is covered both under and over by the corner and nickel back. The curl pattern, also on the left, is double covered by the safety and linebacker.

The routes in this play are bad. If they had Brown run that seam in the middle we'd have one S having to choose to cover two guys. Instead his route took him out of the play and effectively made all our guys double covered.
(This post was last modified: 09-02-2019 08:10 PM by JMaddy.)
09-02-2019 08:05 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JMUDunk Online
Rootin' fer Dukes, bud
*

Posts: 23,593
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 1152
I Root For: Freedom
Location: Shmocation
Post: #33
The Nooch
(09-01-2019 08:01 AM)JMU_Degenerate Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 07:07 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 06:20 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  
(08-31-2019 10:01 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  I agree I'd like for him to just pack it in and take the sack sometimes as much as it sucks. I'm not sure if he's going to learn that at this point. There were a few times today where I yelled "Get rid of it!" but it's not in his blood.

I think that's his problem- he's too quick to tuck and run. He needs to get better on rolling out and passing on the run. He doesn't do enough of that but obviously to his side of the field not across his body/across the field he doesn't have the arm for that. I think at times he needs the space outside the pocket to see the receivers- he's not the tallest QB.

You do realize his runs yesterday were planned QB draws or read options? He executed those plays extremely well. He was not “tucking and running” on his own, except when WVU brought the house and our pass-blocking failed to protect him.

As for his height, he’s plenty tall enough to see down the field, and his arm strength is sufficient to make most of the throws he needs to make. He’s not the perfect QB. He’s not 6’5” or have a cannon for an arm. Sometimes he makes bad decisions. He made one yesterday running to his left on a scramble and did not set his feet and floated a ball down the middle of the field into double coverage. That was a really dumb thing to do. If anything, he was trying too hard to make something positive happen, when once outside the pocket he should have just thrown the ball out of bounds past the line of scrimmage.

All that said, Ben is athletic, and strong, and his passing is accurate. He does an excellent job on the read option, and his legs will make opponents play us honest, both on the run and pass. His job is ultimately to manage the game and get the ball into our playmaker’s hands, and JMU has a wealth of talented skill players. It’s their job not to fumble, and they too failed to make good on that yesterday. So don’t lay yesterday’s loss off on Ben, or start diagnosing his skill set making mountains out of molehills.

Yes and No to the bolded part. In the postgame media session Cignetti stated that the majority of DiNucci's runs WERE tuck and run plays when Cig was justifying the Run vs. Pass call discrepancy. He said, exact quote, "we threw it 20 times, we ran 48, the qb probably ran the ball 14 times, probably at least half of those were passes". So, certainly there were designed runs for him in the game, but the majority of his runs we're not designed runs as acknowledged by our head coach.


Then the receivers weren’t open and he made the right decision?

He played well, the team overall played well, JMU showed well.

No QB is gonna go 32/35,nor any running back 22 for 220 yds.

Can certain things be “fixed”? Of course, but something else will no doubt crop up next week. It always does.

This team is good, talented and plenty deep for a good run.

I’ll take a 7 pt L to the P5 squad on the road and move on. CAA best be ready
09-02-2019 11:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JMUDunk Online
Rootin' fer Dukes, bud
*

Posts: 23,593
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 1152
I Root For: Freedom
Location: Shmocation
Post: #34
The Nooch
(09-01-2019 08:06 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 08:01 AM)JMU_Degenerate Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 07:07 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 06:20 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  
(08-31-2019 10:01 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  I agree I'd like for him to just pack it in and take the sack sometimes as much as it sucks. I'm not sure if he's going to learn that at this point. There were a few times today where I yelled "Get rid of it!" but it's not in his blood.

I think that's his problem- he's too quick to tuck and run. He needs to get better on rolling out and passing on the run. He doesn't do enough of that but obviously to his side of the field not across his body/across the field he doesn't have the arm for that. I think at times he needs the space outside the pocket to see the receivers- he's not the tallest QB.

You do realize his runs yesterday were planned QB draws or read options? He executed those plays extremely well. He was not “tucking and running” on his own, except when WVU brought the house and our pass-blocking failed to protect him.

As for his height, he’s plenty tall enough to see down the field, and his arm strength is sufficient to make most of the throws he needs to make. He’s not the perfect QB. He’s not 6’5” or have a cannon for an arm. Sometimes he makes bad decisions. He made one yesterday running to his left on a scramble and did not set his feet and floated a ball down the middle of the field into double coverage. That was a really dumb thing to do. If anything, he was trying too hard to make something positive happen, when once outside the pocket he should have just thrown the ball out of bounds past the line of scrimmage.

All that said, Ben is athletic, and strong, and his passing is accurate. He does an excellent job on the read option, and his legs will make opponents play us honest, both on the run and pass. His job is ultimately to manage the game and get the ball into our playmaker’s hands, and JMU has a wealth of talented skill players. It’s their job not to fumble, and they too failed to make good on that yesterday. So don’t lay yesterday’s loss off on Ben, or start diagnosing his skill set making mountains out of molehills.

Yes and No to the bolded part. In the postgame media session Cignetti stated that the majority of DiNucci's runs WERE tuck and run plays when Cig was justifying the Run vs. Pass call discrepancy. He said, exact quote, "we threw it 20 times, we ran 48, the qb probably ran the ball 14 times, probably at least half of those were passes". So, certainly there were designed runs for him in the game, but the majority of his runs we're not designed runs as acknowledged by our head coach.

That’s my point- imo he is too quick to tuck and run rather than roll out and pass. His draws and some of his run decisions when guys are covered down field can be effective in terms of yardage but long term I think roll and pass is a better strategy - eventually he will get his bell rung on the tuck and runs as well. He’s not a big guy.


Each of these guys, since they were 8 or 10, have been taught about a tick-tock in their head.

1 one thousand, 2 one thousand, 3 one thousand etc. it better be out of your hand or you have no shot. Receivers the same.

Improv is why coaches spend hours on film and playbooks, improv is not a good plan.

We’ll be fine. Perhaps mo betta than fine
09-02-2019 11:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
NJDuke97 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,578
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 50
I Root For: Jmu
Location:
Post: #35
RE: The Nooch
(09-01-2019 05:07 PM)Purple Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 07:07 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 06:20 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  
(08-31-2019 10:01 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  I agree I'd like for him to just pack it in and take the sack sometimes as much as it sucks. I'm not sure if he's going to learn that at this point. There were a few times today where I yelled "Get rid of it!" but it's not in his blood.

I think that's his problem- he's too quick to tuck and run. He needs to get better on rolling out and passing on the run. He doesn't do enough of that but obviously to his side of the field not across his body/across the field he doesn't have the arm for that. I think at times he needs the space outside the pocket to see the receivers- he's not the tallest QB.

You do realize his runs yesterday were planned QB draws or read options? He executed those plays extremely well. He was not “tucking and running” on his own, except when WVU brought the house and our pass-blocking failed to protect him.

As for his height, he’s plenty tall enough to see down the field, and his arm strength is sufficient to make most of the throws he needs to make. He’s not the perfect QB. He’s not 6’5” or have a cannon for an arm. Sometimes he makes bad decisions. He made one yesterday running to his left on a scramble and did not set his feet and floated a ball down the middle of the field into double coverage. That was a really dumb thing to do. If anything, he was trying too hard to make something positive happen, when once outside the pocket he should have just thrown the ball out of bounds past the line of scrimmage.

All that said, Ben is athletic, and strong, and his passing is accurate. He does an excellent job on the read option, and his legs will make opponents play us honest, both on the run and pass. His job is ultimately to manage the game and get the ball into our playmaker’s hands, and JMU has a wealth of talented skill players. It’s their job not to fumble, and they too failed to make good on that yesterday. So don’t lay yesterday’s loss off on Ben, or start diagnosing his skill set making mountains out of molehills.

I agree with that 100%. I am really sick of the Nooch haters.

Not a Dinucci hater- just saying he needs to work on rolling out of pressure with the goal of throwing the ball instead of tucking and running every time.
09-03-2019 05:51 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ShadyP Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,308
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 25
I Root For: JMU
Location:
Post: #36
RE: The Nooch
(08-31-2019 10:50 PM)Purple Wrote:  
(08-31-2019 10:03 PM)JMU_Newbill Wrote:  I’d like for him to not have to run for his life 75% of the time. How dare he complete 70% of his passes!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

THIS!

Amen, in the 2nd the pass protection was poor and DiNucci had guys running free at him almost every time he dropped back. I think the OL got worn down but they have to do better than that.
09-03-2019 07:41 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DoubleDogDare Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,298
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 51
I Root For: James Madison
Location:
Post: #37
RE: The Nooch
2Buck - Waste some more time and pull the still shot of just before and as Nooch starts his throwing motion. #4 is turned inside, has just been bumped by the official forcing him farther inside then he was initially tracking, and isn't in a position to make a play (as evident by the rest of the play, where he doesn't make a play). You have laid out "exhibits" that occur in less than 1/4 second and act like a safety can watch the ball, the WR, recover from a bump from official, turn his hips 180 degrees and make a play at the ball. The safety couldn't make that play which is why the ball had already bounce of the ground before he even touches Dylan which happened after he had enough time to pull up, further proving that he was too far away to make the play. You are using all that BS to justify what you saw as "forcing" a throw after admitting that you are okay with QBs forcing throws. I mean for heaven's sake, why would a QB throw a ball to a WR that has gotten inside leverage on his defender, on 3rd and goal, after being sacked the play prior, losing with a quarter and half to play, against a team they are being paid to take an L from. He should have just throw it out the back of the endzone, better yet, taken a knee in middle of field to give the kicker an easier chip shot.

I don't have the time to confirm now that I wasted it on my response to 2Buck (but I'm sure one of the several posters that would like to debate a ball that was 5 inches or 0.05 seconds from being a TD which instead fell incomplete at the feet of a diving DB has the time), how many times did WVU have an untouched defender in Nooch's facemask? I only casually watched the second half while sitting on a beach but I counted at least 4 defenders in what I saw.

I just hope at the end of the season this goes down as JMU's only loss so we can blame it on QB play.
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2019 10:02 AM by DoubleDogDare.)
09-03-2019 10:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BleedingPurple Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 10,496
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 36
I Root For: JMU
Location: Charlotte
Post: #38
RE: The Nooch
(09-02-2019 11:42 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 08:06 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 08:01 AM)JMU_Degenerate Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 07:07 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 06:20 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  I think that's his problem- he's too quick to tuck and run. He needs to get better on rolling out and passing on the run. He doesn't do enough of that but obviously to his side of the field not across his body/across the field he doesn't have the arm for that. I think at times he needs the space outside the pocket to see the receivers- he's not the tallest QB.

You do realize his runs yesterday were planned QB draws or read options? He executed those plays extremely well. He was not “tucking and running” on his own, except when WVU brought the house and our pass-blocking failed to protect him.

As for his height, he’s plenty tall enough to see down the field, and his arm strength is sufficient to make most of the throws he needs to make. He’s not the perfect QB. He’s not 6’5” or have a cannon for an arm. Sometimes he makes bad decisions. He made one yesterday running to his left on a scramble and did not set his feet and floated a ball down the middle of the field into double coverage. That was a really dumb thing to do. If anything, he was trying too hard to make something positive happen, when once outside the pocket he should have just thrown the ball out of bounds past the line of scrimmage.

All that said, Ben is athletic, and strong, and his passing is accurate. He does an excellent job on the read option, and his legs will make opponents play us honest, both on the run and pass. His job is ultimately to manage the game and get the ball into our playmaker’s hands, and JMU has a wealth of talented skill players. It’s their job not to fumble, and they too failed to make good on that yesterday. So don’t lay yesterday’s loss off on Ben, or start diagnosing his skill set making mountains out of molehills.

Yes and No to the bolded part. In the postgame media session Cignetti stated that the majority of DiNucci's runs WERE tuck and run plays when Cig was justifying the Run vs. Pass call discrepancy. He said, exact quote, "we threw it 20 times, we ran 48, the qb probably ran the ball 14 times, probably at least half of those were passes". So, certainly there were designed runs for him in the game, but the majority of his runs we're not designed runs as acknowledged by our head coach.

That’s my point- imo he is too quick to tuck and run rather than roll out and pass. His draws and some of his run decisions when guys are covered down field can be effective in terms of yardage but long term I think roll and pass is a better strategy - eventually he will get his bell rung on the tuck and runs as well. He’s not a big guy.


Each of these guys, since they were 8 or 10, have been taught about a tick-tock in their head.

1 one thousand, 2 one thousand, 3 one thousand etc. it better be out of your hand or you have no shot. Receivers the same.

Improv is why coaches spend hours on film and playbooks, improv is not a good plan.

We’ll be fine. Perhaps mo betta than fine

^^^^
This. Trying to perfectly position and execute plays for 18 - 22 year olds is nearly an impossible task.
09-03-2019 10:56 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
2Buck Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,071
Joined: Mar 2014
Reputation: 148
I Root For: James Madison
Location: Big pile of CAA-CAA
Post: #39
RE: The Nooch
(09-03-2019 10:01 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  2Buck - Waste some more time and pull the still shot of just before and as Nooch starts his throwing motion. #4 is turned inside, has just been bumped by the official forcing him farther inside then he was initially tracking, and isn't in a position to make a play (as evident by the rest of the play, where he doesn't make a play). You have laid out "exhibits" that occur in less than 1/4 second and act like a safety can watch the ball, the WR, recover from a bump from official, turn his hips 180 degrees and make a play at the ball. The safety couldn't make that play which is why the ball had already bounce of the ground before he even touches Dylan which happened after he had enough time to pull up, further proving that he was too far away to make the play. You are using all that BS to justify what you saw as "forcing" a throw after admitting that you are okay with QBs forcing throws. I mean for heaven's sake, why would a QB throw a ball to a WR that has gotten inside leverage on his defender, on 3rd and goal, after being sacked the play prior, losing with a quarter and half to play, against a team they are being paid to take an L from. He should have just throw it out the back of the endzone, better yet, taken a knee in middle of field to give the kicker an easier chip shot.

I don't have the time to confirm now that I wasted it on my response to 2Buck (but I'm sure one of the several posters that would like to debate a ball that was 5 inches or 0.05 seconds from being a TD which instead fell incomplete at the feet of a diving DB has the time), how many times did WVU have an untouched defender in Nooch's facemask? I only casually watched the second half while sitting on a beach but I counted at least 4 defenders in what I saw.

I just hope at the end of the season this goes down as JMU's only loss so we can blame it on QB play.

Nope, I'm done. You're only gonna see what you want to see.

[Image: giphy.gif]
09-03-2019 11:00 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DoubleDogDare Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,298
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 51
I Root For: James Madison
Location:
Post: #40
RE: The Nooch
(09-03-2019 11:00 AM)2Buck Wrote:  
(09-03-2019 10:01 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  2Buck - Waste some more time and pull the still shot of just before and as Nooch starts his throwing motion. #4 is turned inside, has just been bumped by the official forcing him farther inside then he was initially tracking, and isn't in a position to make a play (as evident by the rest of the play, where he doesn't make a play). You have laid out "exhibits" that occur in less than 1/4 second and act like a safety can watch the ball, the WR, recover from a bump from official, turn his hips 180 degrees and make a play at the ball. The safety couldn't make that play which is why the ball had already bounce of the ground before he even touches Dylan which happened after he had enough time to pull up, further proving that he was too far away to make the play. You are using all that BS to justify what you saw as "forcing" a throw after admitting that you are okay with QBs forcing throws. I mean for heaven's sake, why would a QB throw a ball to a WR that has gotten inside leverage on his defender, on 3rd and goal, after being sacked the play prior, losing with a quarter and half to play, against a team they are being paid to take an L from. He should have just throw it out the back of the endzone, better yet, taken a knee in middle of field to give the kicker an easier chip shot.

I don't have the time to confirm now that I wasted it on my response to 2Buck (but I'm sure one of the several posters that would like to debate a ball that was 5 inches or 0.05 seconds from being a TD which instead fell incomplete at the feet of a diving DB has the time), how many times did WVU have an untouched defender in Nooch's facemask? I only casually watched the second half while sitting on a beach but I counted at least 4 defenders in what I saw.

I just hope at the end of the season this goes down as JMU's only loss so we can blame it on QB play.

Nope, I'm done. You're only gonna see what is supported by actual video and not hypotheticals of what 2Buck believes a former 3 star recruit and leader in pass breakups in the previous year shoulda/coulda done in the blink of an eye but didn't/couldn't do.

FIFY
09-03-2019 11:17 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2020 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2020 MyBB Group.