(08-20-2019 10:57 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 09:30 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  Not getting into the rest of this thread because I've already provided Eric with plenty of information, science literature, peer reviewed studies, and documentaries to refute many of his points and his only response was: don't care, Trust in God. So not worth my time.

Uh, no, you have done no such thing. What has happened is I have given you a ton of proof and evidence that the bible is REAL, and you have never even tried to refute any of it. You already know you can't.

You can turn a blind eye and lie to yourself your entire life, but the day is quickly coming where you will stand before Christ as your judge and jury, and you will have no excuse whatsoever.

Its your choice in the end. You either want the truth, or you want a lie and deception.

You are the one who pay the eternal price in the end. No short term sexual fulfillment is worth an eternity in hell separated from your Creator.

that's proof for YOU...not anyone else. No one can convince me that some old man in the sky is driving us towards an end where you either believe or burn in hell. That sounds human made and certainly not divine. You can label it truth if you like but that doesn't make it so. I'm just glad our founding fathers were wise enough to keep religion separate from govt. Most gay folks I know couldn't care less what some 2000 year old book says (in fact that's true of most people I know)

(08-20-2019 02:01 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 01:34 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  So I think there's an interesting debate around "praying the gay away" meaning either praying yourself straight (which ain't gonna happen) vs. using the power of prayer to remain abstinent and thus sin free (if it works for ya, power to ya but I would think to find that life a little empty). I guess that's up to the person.

Imagine how empty eternal death in a lake of fire will feel. Particularly when you realize how it was your own free choice that sent you there

this is an example...you shouldn't need to threaten folks just to believe.

(08-20-2019 02:03 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 10:57 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 09:30 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  Not getting into the rest of this thread because I've already provided Eric with plenty of information, science literature, peer reviewed studies, and documentaries to refute many of his points and his only response was: don't care, Trust in God. So not worth my time.

Uh, no, you have done no such thing. What has happened is I have given you a ton of proof and evidence that the bible is REAL, and you have never even tried to refute any of it. You already know you can't.

You can turn a blind eye and lie to yourself your entire life, but the day is quickly coming where you will stand before Christ as your judge and jury, and you will have no excuse whatsoever.

Its your choice in the end. You either want the truth, or you want a lie and deception.

You are the one who pay the eternal price in the end. No short term sexual fulfillment is worth an eternity in hell separated from your Creator.

that's proof for YOU...not anyone else. No one can convince me that some old man in the sky is driving us towards an end where you either believe or burn in hell. That sounds human made and certainly not divine. You can label it truth if you like but that doesn't make it so. I'm just glad our founding fathers were wise enough to keep religion separate from govt. Most gay folks I know couldn't care less what some 2000 year old book says (in fact that's true of most people I know)

Its impossible to convince anyone of anything they totally refuse to believe anyway.

Your problem is not evidence, your problem is in your heart. You REFUSE to believe no matter what.

That is not an issue of evidence, its an issue of the heart.

Government has nothing to do with any of that.

(08-20-2019 02:08 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:03 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 10:57 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 09:30 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  Not getting into the rest of this thread because I've already provided Eric with plenty of information, science literature, peer reviewed studies, and documentaries to refute many of his points and his only response was: don't care, Trust in God. So not worth my time.

Uh, no, you have done no such thing. What has happened is I have given you a ton of proof and evidence that the bible is REAL, and you have never even tried to refute any of it. You already know you can't.

You can turn a blind eye and lie to yourself your entire life, but the day is quickly coming where you will stand before Christ as your judge and jury, and you will have no excuse whatsoever.

Its your choice in the end. You either want the truth, or you want a lie and deception.

You are the one who pay the eternal price in the end. No short term sexual fulfillment is worth an eternity in hell separated from your Creator.

that's proof for YOU...not anyone else. No one can convince me that some old man in the sky is driving us towards an end where you either believe or burn in hell. That sounds human made and certainly not divine. You can label it truth if you like but that doesn't make it so. I'm just glad our founding fathers were wise enough to keep religion separate from govt. Most gay folks I know couldn't care less what some 2000 year old book says (in fact that's true of most people I know)

Its impossible to convince anyone of anything they totally refuse to believe anyway.

Your problem is not evidence, your problem is in your heart. You REFUSE to believe no matter what.

That is not an issue of evidence, its an issue of the heart.

Government has nothing to do with any of that.

I believe in a creator...just not your christian god.

(08-20-2019 02:06 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:01 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 01:34 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  So I think there's an interesting debate around "praying the gay away" meaning either praying yourself straight (which ain't gonna happen) vs. using the power of prayer to remain abstinent and thus sin free (if it works for ya, power to ya but I would think to find that life a little empty). I guess that's up to the person.

Imagine how empty eternal death in a lake of fire will feel. Particularly when you realize how it was your own free choice that sent you there

this is an example...you shouldn't need to threaten folks just to believe.

A free choice is not a threat, its just a reality. Its not me who sends anyone to hell, each person send themselves of their own free will.

Not one single person who seeks Him with the whole heart will fail to find him. Only those who refuse of their own free will.

(08-20-2019 02:11 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  I believe in a creator...just not your christian god.

You can believe in Santa Clause if it makes you feel better. It doesn't make him real though.

The question you should be asking...Is the Bible real? Do we have proof and evidence.

Memphis, not really worth debating/engaging Eric. There are other posters in this thread that would actually have interest in dialogue. Eric is just going to thump his same opinions and ignore anything substantive you post. I'm hoping Claw or Tiger revisits this thread so I can hear more of their opinions :)

(08-20-2019 02:15 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Memphis, not really worth debating/engaging Eric. There are other posters in this thread that would actually have interest in dialogue. Eric is just going to thump his same opinions and ignore anything substantive you post. I'm hoping Claw or Tiger revisits this thread so I can hear more of their opinions :)

Pot calling the kettle black. I'm pointing out facts you refuse but can't debunk.

I never argued your points about science and being born gay.

I instead pointed out the spiritual truth about these issues and what the bible says, and how we KNOW the bible is real. The problem is you don't want to hear or consider that there is a far, far bigger truth and reality here beyond scientific studies on homosexuality.

So lets not pretend to blame me for your refusal to even consider those things.

You aren't yet interested in truth, you are more interested in what makes you feel better.

(08-20-2019 02:15 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Memphis, not really worth debating/engaging Eric. There are other posters in this thread that would actually have interest in dialogue. Eric is just going to thump his same opinions and ignore anything substantive you post. I'm hoping Claw or Tiger revisits this thread so I can hear more of their opinions :)

I don't think that's fair...at least not in this case. Eric was being more than respectful in his comments to Memphis.

(08-20-2019 02:26 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:15 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Memphis, not really worth debating/engaging Eric. There are other posters in this thread that would actually have interest in dialogue. Eric is just going to thump his same opinions and ignore anything substantive you post. I'm hoping Claw or Tiger revisits this thread so I can hear more of their opinions :)

I don't think that's fair...at least not in this case. Eric was being more than respectful in his comments to Memphis.

To each their own!


But when he keeps making posts like this:

Quote: I think you know full well that is not what I was talking about here. What we are referring to is the new extreme laws being pushed in California that ban ALL gay conversion "camps". The idea that group therapy for gays seeking conversion is somehow harmful for consenting adults is absurd.

and then flat out ignores studies I post, agencies I cite, experts I refer to... can get a little frustrating.


-edit- to his credit he specifically refers to consenting adults and seeking therapy. And while my citations do address this, more so on the efficacy of such treatments... he also completely ignores the trauma it causes for children and especially children FORCED to go by parents, which my citations also discuss. -edit-

There is a far bigger reality and truth here TD, and that is what I am trying to get through to you on. A far, far bigger and more important truth than scientific studies and social experiments.

It does a person no good to seek social virtues or pleasures of the flesh to only end up in eternal damnation.

You seek truth in the smaller temporary place, and blind yourself to the eternal consequences and reality.

What does it profit a man to gain the whole world, but lose his eternal soul? This is a far, far more important question that you don't want to deal with.

(08-20-2019 02:31 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:26 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:15 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Memphis, not really worth debating/engaging Eric. There are other posters in this thread that would actually have interest in dialogue. Eric is just going to thump his same opinions and ignore anything substantive you post. I'm hoping Claw or Tiger revisits this thread so I can hear more of their opinions :)

I don't think that's fair...at least not in this case. Eric was being more than respectful in his comments to Memphis.

To each their own!


But when he keeps making posts like this:

Quote: I think you know full well that is not what I was talking about here. What we are referring to is the new extreme laws being pushed in California that ban ALL gay conversion "camps". The idea that group therapy for gays seeking conversion is somehow harmful for consenting adults is absurd.

and then flat out ignores studies I post, agencies I cite, experts I refer to... can get a little frustrating.


-edit- to his credit he specifically refers to consenting adults and seeking therapy. And while my citations do address this, more so on the efficacy of such treatments... he also completely ignores the trauma it causes for children and especially children FORCED to go by parents, which my citations also discuss. -edit-

Studies, agencies, and experts are not relevant here. Whether conversion therapy works or is harmful is not relevant either.

This is a free country. People should be free to do whatever they want.

More specifically, we are guaranteed religious freedom. If some wants to do conversion therapy for religious reasons, they should be not just able to do so, but GUARANTEED the right to do so. No study or expert should make a damn bit of difference.

(08-20-2019 02:11 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:06 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:01 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 01:34 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  So I think there's an interesting debate around "praying the gay away" meaning either praying yourself straight (which ain't gonna happen) vs. using the power of prayer to remain abstinent and thus sin free (if it works for ya, power to ya but I would think to find that life a little empty). I guess that's up to the person.

Imagine how empty eternal death in a lake of fire will feel. Particularly when you realize how it was your own free choice that sent you there

this is an example...you shouldn't need to threaten folks just to believe.

A free choice is not a threat, its just a reality. Its not me who sends anyone to hell, each person send themselves of their own free will.

Not one single person who seeks Him with the whole heart will fail to find him. Only those who refuse of their own free will.

Reminds me of this youtube video I saw recently. Just a funny video.

What lost non believers don't realize is not only are they freely choosing where they end up in the end, salvation is not something you have to EARN through hard works, its actually a FREE GIFT from God.

In their denial, they so badly want to blame God for their own free will choices they can't even see they are rejecting a FREE GIFT of eternal life and salvation. Our Father in heaven not only grants each of us free will and choice, He literally paid the price of sin for us and freely gifts us with salvation and eternal life as a living God, literally the adopted Sons and Daughters of God Himself.

He freely offers us the highest and most blessed of places in His eternal Kingdom and offers it to us freely.

But people love their sin so much, and their pride in self and life is so tall they cannot even accept a FREE GIFT from Him. And its the most valuable gift that can even be offered in all of creation and heaven. There is literally not a higher or more blessed thing in the universe He could grant us, and He offers it to us freely.

No more pain, no sorrow, non longing, no lack of fulfillment, no death. All joy, fulfillment and happiness forevermore more. The most blessed and highest people and creatures of all creation from everlasting to everlasting.

It seems one of the most agonizing pain and regrets in hell is knowing what you passed up on freely of your own free will. No one to blame but yourself alone. Many will know they no only freely rejected it, they mocked it and hated Him without cause when He freely offered them everything He has to give forevermore.

In fact scripture even tells us multiple times that the level of punishment in hell will vary for each individual, and those who had the most exposure to the Gospel, such as people in Christian nations that were exposed to it daily their entire lives but still rejected it or mocked it will actually have the most harsh punishments of all.

https://www.gotquestions.org/levels-hell.html

From the link:

Although the Bible does not specifically say there are different levels of punishment in hell, it does seem to indicate that the judgment will indeed be experienced differently for different people. In Revelation 20:11–15, the people are judged “according to what they had done as recorded in the books” (Revelation 20:12). All the people at this judgment, though, are thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:13–15). So, perhaps, the purpose of the judgment is to determine how severe the punishment in hell will be.

A clearer passage is Luke 10, where Jesus speaks of comparative punishment. First, Jesus says this about a village that rejects the gospel: “I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town” (verse 12). Then He speaks to Bethsaida and Chorazin: “It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you” (verse 14). Whatever punishment the former residents of Sodom, Tyre, and Sidon were experiencing in hell, the Galilean towns that refused to hear Christ would experience more. The level of punishment in hell seems to be tied to the amount of light a person rejects.

Another indication that hell has different levels of punishment is found in Jesus’ words in Luke 12: “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked” (verses 47–48).

Whatever degrees of punishment hell contains, it is clear that hell is a place to be avoided.

Knowing the harsh truth of hell and its eternal punishments I would just again repeat my previous post:

(08-20-2019 05:54 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  What lost non believers don't realize is not only are they freely choosing where they end up in the end, salvation is not something you have to EARN through hard works, its actually a FREE GIFT from God.

In their denial, they so badly want to blame God for their own free will choices they can't even see they are rejecting a FREE GIFT of eternal life and salvation. Our Father in heaven not only grants each of us free will and choice, He literally paid the price of sin for us and freely gifts us with salvation and eternal life as a living God, literally the adopted Sons and Daughters of God Himself.

He freely offers us the highest and most blessed of places in His eternal Kingdom and offers it to us freely.

But people love their sin so much, and their pride in self and life is so tall they cannot even accept a FREE GIFT from Him. And its the most valuable gift that can even be offered in all of creation and heaven. There is literally not a higher or more blessed thing in the universe He could grant us, and He offers it to us freely.

No more pain, no sorrow, non longing, no lack of fulfillment, no death. All joy, fulfillment and happiness forevermore more. The most blessed and highest people and creatures of all creation from everlasting to everlasting.

It seems one of the most agonizing pain and regrets in hell is knowing what you passed up on freely of your own free will. No one to blame but yourself alone. Many will know they no only freely rejected it, they mocked it and hated Him without cause when He freely offered them everything He has to give forevermore.

(08-20-2019 04:55 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:31 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:26 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:15 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Memphis, not really worth debating/engaging Eric. There are other posters in this thread that would actually have interest in dialogue. Eric is just going to thump his same opinions and ignore anything substantive you post. I'm hoping Claw or Tiger revisits this thread so I can hear more of their opinions :)

I don't think that's fair...at least not in this case. Eric was being more than respectful in his comments to Memphis.

To each their own!


But when he keeps making posts like this:

Quote: I think you know full well that is not what I was talking about here. What we are referring to is the new extreme laws being pushed in California that ban ALL gay conversion "camps". The idea that group therapy for gays seeking conversion is somehow harmful for consenting adults is absurd.

and then flat out ignores studies I post, agencies I cite, experts I refer to... can get a little frustrating.


-edit- to his credit he specifically refers to consenting adults and seeking therapy. And while my citations do address this, more so on the efficacy of such treatments... he also completely ignores the trauma it causes for children and especially children FORCED to go by parents, which my citations also discuss. -edit-

Studies, agencies, and experts are not relevant here. Whether conversion therapy works or is harmful is not relevant either.

This is a free country. People should be free to do whatever they want.

More specifically, we are guaranteed religious freedom. If some wants to do conversion therapy for religious reasons, they should be not just able to do so, but GUARANTEED the right to do so. No study or expert should make a damn bit of difference.

All 16 states, aside from New York, have banned it only for minors. Since studies show it is harmful and minors don't always understand consequences (and really, shouldn't be coerced into something this monumental anyway), I have zero problem with that.

(08-21-2019 08:14 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 04:55 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:31 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:26 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:15 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Memphis, not really worth debating/engaging Eric. There are other posters in this thread that would actually have interest in dialogue. Eric is just going to thump his same opinions and ignore anything substantive you post. I'm hoping Claw or Tiger revisits this thread so I can hear more of their opinions :)

I don't think that's fair...at least not in this case. Eric was being more than respectful in his comments to Memphis.

To each their own!


But when he keeps making posts like this:

Quote: I think you know full well that is not what I was talking about here. What we are referring to is the new extreme laws being pushed in California that ban ALL gay conversion "camps". The idea that group therapy for gays seeking conversion is somehow harmful for consenting adults is absurd.

and then flat out ignores studies I post, agencies I cite, experts I refer to... can get a little frustrating.


-edit- to his credit he specifically refers to consenting adults and seeking therapy. And while my citations do address this, more so on the efficacy of such treatments... he also completely ignores the trauma it causes for children and especially children FORCED to go by parents, which my citations also discuss. -edit-

Studies, agencies, and experts are not relevant here. Whether conversion therapy works or is harmful is not relevant either.

This is a free country. People should be free to do whatever they want.

More specifically, we are guaranteed religious freedom. If some wants to do conversion therapy for religious reasons, they should be not just able to do so, but GUARANTEED the right to do so. No study or expert should make a damn bit of difference.

All 16 states, aside from New York, have banned it only for minors. Since studies show it is harmful and minors don't always understand consequences (and really, shouldn't be coerced into something this monumental anyway), I have zero problem with that.

Studies show spanking is bad. Should parents be banned from corporal punishment?

That's really what this is. A "study" shows it is psychologically bad for them. But there is very little science in psychology. The soft sciences have jokingly bad science in their studies.

Its the nanny state telling parents that its bad parenting to not allow a child to be transgender, but its good parenting to not discourage becoming gay.

(08-20-2019 05:14 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:11 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:06 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:01 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 01:34 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  So I think there's an interesting debate around "praying the gay away" meaning either praying yourself straight (which ain't gonna happen) vs. using the power of prayer to remain abstinent and thus sin free (if it works for ya, power to ya but I would think to find that life a little empty). I guess that's up to the person.

Imagine how empty eternal death in a lake of fire will feel. Particularly when you realize how it was your own free choice that sent you there

this is an example...you shouldn't need to threaten folks just to believe.

A free choice is not a threat, its just a reality. Its not me who sends anyone to hell, each person send themselves of their own free will.

Not one single person who seeks Him with the whole heart will fail to find him. Only those who refuse of their own free will.

Reminds me of this youtube video I saw recently. Just a funny video.

(08-21-2019 09:45 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-21-2019 08:14 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 04:55 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:31 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 02:26 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I don't think that's fair...at least not in this case. Eric was being more than respectful in his comments to Memphis.

To each their own!


But when he keeps making posts like this:

Quote: I think you know full well that is not what I was talking about here. What we are referring to is the new extreme laws being pushed in California that ban ALL gay conversion "camps". The idea that group therapy for gays seeking conversion is somehow harmful for consenting adults is absurd.

and then flat out ignores studies I post, agencies I cite, experts I refer to... can get a little frustrating.


-edit- to his credit he specifically refers to consenting adults and seeking therapy. And while my citations do address this, more so on the efficacy of such treatments... he also completely ignores the trauma it causes for children and especially children FORCED to go by parents, which my citations also discuss. -edit-

Studies, agencies, and experts are not relevant here. Whether conversion therapy works or is harmful is not relevant either.

This is a free country. People should be free to do whatever they want.

More specifically, we are guaranteed religious freedom. If some wants to do conversion therapy for religious reasons, they should be not just able to do so, but GUARANTEED the right to do so. No study or expert should make a damn bit of difference.

All 16 states, aside from New York, have banned it only for minors. Since studies show it is harmful and minors don't always understand consequences (and really, shouldn't be coerced into something this monumental anyway), I have zero problem with that.

Studies show spanking is bad. Should parents be banned from corporal punishment?

That's really what this is. A "study" shows it is psychologically bad for them. But there is very little science in psychology. The soft sciences have jokingly bad science in their studies.

Its the nanny state telling parents that its bad parenting to not allow a child to be transgender, but its good parenting to not discourage becoming gay.

That should be a captain obvious point, but sometimes bias gets in the way.