(08-14-2019 02:21 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  Since 2013, he's 12-21 (.363) vs FBS teams that finish with winning records.

That's fair to look at... but... then again... when's the last time you compared that same stat to others? I happen to have looked at Alabama not so long ago in that general (not exact) light... here's what I found...



https://csnbbs.com/thread-862667-page-4.html

And that's ALL auto-school competition, not just the ones with winning records.

So, fair to look at? Yes. Fair to draw conclusions w/o comparatives? Nah. Have to have context.

How does comparing us and the frustrations the fans feel about losing to good teams and not winning conference titles compare to Alabama?

I would say that North Texas' fan base and support have grown in every facet in the last 6 years. Our attendance and support have risen significantly and the school continues to steam towards 40k students and beyond. It's becoming a "cool" option for high school students as UT and A&M are becoming less accessible. There is a buzz about UNT in Texas right now mainly due to football. They were even talking about Mason Fine on the Austin "HORN" radio station while i was at lunch today.

Lack of strong regional rivals hurts Marshall, plus it hasn't helped that many fans were not thrilled with CUSA 3.0. Television also hurts, Marshall use to have it's best games moved to Sunday or mid-week, that is frustrating to out of town season ticket holders.

(08-14-2019 04:02 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  How does comparing us and the frustrations the fans feel about losing to good teams and not winning conference titles compare to Alabama?

96, you introduced a stat in support of your conclusion.

The comparison was to the stat introduced, of course.

Not the broader conclusion.

Not disputing the conclusion necessarily... or at least, not yet... but rather, the stat used as a support for it is not actually that compelling if someone bothers to give it a closer study (... emphasis on "if"... not like some folks in our school's camp feel it's especially important to be able to support their conclusions with solid rationale... hence my Irritant-in-Chief to the Whiny 5% title *wink*).

I think Charlottes has stagnated. Our attendance has declined but i dont think those are fans lost forever. Just fans that voted with their dollars after years.of mismanagement. We missed out on a decade of making students fans though. We need the new guard to turn things around or thr fanbase may not ever recover.

(08-14-2019 12:59 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:40 PM)MonGNARch Wrote:  For my perception of ODU, the newness of football in 2009 paired with being in a conference with local and familiar rivals (and immediate winning), football was at an all-time high before the move to CUSA. Playing schools like W&M, JMU, Richmond, Delaware, Towson, and a handful of others provided familiarity from playing them in basketball and other sports plus the fact that they were all relatively local so many people had friends, siblings, teammates, parents, etc that attended those rival schools to make it feel personal. In basketball, we were going to the NCAA tournament every 4 years with a back to back CAA championships in 09/10 and 10/11. Basketball rivalries were what fueled ODU sports in my opinion, due to there not being football back in the day. Some of those schools mentioned plus George Mason, VCU, and other basketball only schools that were local and heated rivlaries were formed from history. I remember when football games were legit sell-outs and not what we called "sell-outs" from the last few seasons. I remember ODU basketball games where everyone, no matter the age, would be standing, yelling and chanting all game, with the student section rocking and loud from start to finish, and would stay to sing the alma mater.

I like being in CUSA because of the opportunities and exposure ODU has gotten, but the fan base has turned a bit apathetic in recent years. a 5-25 basketball season during our transition from CAA to CUSA really rocked the basketball fandom and while it has gotten better, the atmopshere I remember just isn't the same, save for a few high-stakes games or home NIT games. Football has struggled a bit since coming up and the newness has long worn off, plus many fans having to adjust or learn about schools halfway across the country, it's hard to create new rivlaries from scratch. I think the new stadium will help with fan involvement this year and the high of coming off an NCAA appearance should help basketball as well. But as a whole, things are not the same in my eyes (other Monarch faithful can back me up or bash me as they see fit) as it was back then.

But I would never want to go back to the CAA, especially nowadays

Yeah and the lackluster football performance the last few years haven't helped either I'm sure.

I feel (IMO), the fans and local community love a winner and are hungry to jump on the band wagon of success. However we have a very loyal group of fans that love the University and the teams that represent ODU, as well as the Hampton roads area. I also feel the new stadium will bring back an excitement that could explode if we have a better than anticipate year this year, as a football program. If in the next few years we can have a few winning seasons I believe that we will see the expansion and completion of the Phase II part of the new stadium. The fans and loyal Donors have given just shy of 40 million dollars to the athletic department over the last 3 years, 16 million this year alone. ODU's Donors are second in the G5 ranks only to UCF this past year. WE have the fans, the Donors and support to do some really special things as members of the ODU Family. Aim High and don't give up the Monarchs making CUSA proud to have us as Conference mates.

Old Dominion Hail

UTEP’s fan base numbers have decreased but it’s because of the mediocre to horrible product on the field and court rather than realignment. Don’t get me wrong, realignment plays a role but in the case of UTEP, win in both revenue sports and the fans will show up regardless of opponent.

Since the WAC-16 days, we’re used to see new teams all the time from the WAC additions and left behinds to C-USA 2.0 and 3.0. Rice is our only long time conference mate and it’s still a “new” one at 23 years. UAB, Marshall and Southern Miss are next since 2005. Just to give you an example of the multiple new teams UTEP has played:

1992-2005
Fresno State

1996-1999
UNLV

1996-2001
TCU

1999-2004
Nevada

2001-05
Boise State
Louisiana Tech

1996-2005
San Jose State

1996-2013
SMU
Tulsa

2005-13/14
Houston
Tulane
Memphis
East Carolina
Central Florida

2013/14-Present
UTSA
Charlotte
North Texas
Old Dominion
Middle Tennessee
Western Kentucky
Louisiana Tech
Florida Atlantic
Florida International

Absolutely downward. Marshall has lost thousands of fans over last 5 years.

One reason: Johnny "No Nuts" / "Punts a lot" Holliday.

9 Years of under performing.

(08-14-2019 06:43 PM)HERD1 Wrote:  Absolutely downward. Marshall has lost thousands of fans over last 5 years.

One reason: Johnny "No Nuts" / "Punts a lot" Holliday.

9 Years of under performing.

Good point, the old ball control offense and trying to win games on defense isn't what gets fans excited now, it's certainly more fun to watch teams with high powered offenses.

Don't think anyone would be surprised to hear us say MT's is in a nose dive.

Averaging over 20K a decade ago over a four year period or so. And several of those seasons were actual/scanned and not announced because the president required it. Since then missed opportunities at home and having Ben Stein as the head coach hasn't exactly inspired community excitement - which we've gone into detail on before.

(08-14-2019 06:43 PM)HERD1 Wrote:  Absolutely downward. Marshall has lost thousands of fans over last 5 years.

One reason: Johnny "No Nuts" / "Punts a lot" Holliday.

9 Years of under performing.

We have a lot in common. 13 years in the Boro.

(08-14-2019 09:01 AM)TTT Wrote:  I made this long post a few months ago on another board and I'll share it here. It's pretty much the backstory to what all happened to USM starting around the end of the 2011 season up to today:

Quote:If you're wondering what the hell has happened to Southern Miss since we went 12-2 and won CUSA in 2011, here's a breakdown of what happened. ESPN could literally make one of the greatest 30/30 episodes about this:

2011: HC Larry Fedora leads USM to 12-2, T25 ranking, CUSA Champions, and wins the Hawaii Bowl and then bolts for the HC job at UNC. After the Bowl season is over, USM President and AD are both fired because USM had the choice to go to the HOD Bowl and play Penn State but Fedora/AD/Prez (who all knew Fedora was going to jump ship to UNC) accepted the Hawaii Bowl invite vs Nevada instead which pissed off the ENTIRE USM community because hardly anyone can afford to travel to Hawaii to see us play Nevada...compared to the Heat of Dallas Bowl vs. Penn State. So, head coach, AD, and Prez are gone and only a few of the key guys from this championship team (QB, OL, WR's) will be graduating in the spring.

2012: USM (w/ an interim President and interim AD) hires the absolute worst HC in all of college football, Auburn DC E-loss Johnson who turns around and hires HS, JUCO, & SWAC coaches AND a realtor for our S/C coord (a REALTOR as our S/C Coord. who hasn't worked in D1 athletics since the 80's!!! I kid you not!). Meanwhile, during Eloss' first meeting with his new team (while going over team rules and whatnot) he tells the players "No walkmans allowed in the fieldhouse". True story. I sh!t you not. Long story short, he plays HIS guys who he recruited that spring instead of the much more talented juniors/seniors already here recruited under Fedora and we don't win a single game that year. Players are constantly thrown under the bus in post-game pressers and so naturally, every decent player on the team starts to transfer out and thus it starts the mass exodus of our roster. At the conclusion of the 0-12 season Elloss Johnson is fired. Essentially, the 2012 season was a death penalty for USM football. No doubts about it.

2013: USM finally names a new President, Rodney Bennett who later names new USM AD Bill McGillis from USF and enter new HC Todd Monken who inherits an absolute MESS! He literally is working w/ like 50 scholarship players and as a result we "improve" to 1-11. Of course this is also the start of teams leaving/entering CUSA coupled w/ the fact we've won 1 game in 2 years...fan apathy is at an all time high because no one knows who the hell is in our conference anymore and we've only won ONE game over the past 2 years...

2014: We finally start to see a semblance of a FB program. We started the season 3-4 and then our QB (future NFL San Francisco QB Nick Mullens) goes down for the season with an injury and we end up losing the remaining 5 games. We finish this season 3-9. At this point it's hard being a USM fan, 4 wins in the past 3 years....ugh.

2015: USM football is back. We go 9-5. We win CUSA West but ended up losing to WKU in the CUSA CG and Washington in the HOD Bowl. It took a few years but nevertheless, USM football is finally back to being a respectable program and has a lot to build on for the years to come.

2016: A week before national signing day USM HC Todd Monken resigns to become the OC for the Tampa Bay Bucs. Enter new (and current HC) Jay Hopson. He assembles an ok staff all things considered and he manages to keep some of the recruits that were committed to Monken. First game of the season USM wins at Kentucky 44-35 (after trailing 35-10 right before halftime). We have a ton of injuries throughout the year on defense and we end up going 7-6 and are NOLA Bowl Champions. Still, USM is back to being a respectable program.

2017: USM AD McGillis bolts for the AD position at the Univ. of San Diego. We hire Jon Gilbert from Tennessee. We have another decent year in football. We finish 8-5 and get throttled by FSU in the Indy Bowl.

2018: In Monken's 3rd year he would lead his USM team to 9 wins and west division Champs. For Jay Hopson's 3rd year there's too many close losses, a non-existent running game and a cancelled (weather) game @ App State and we go 6-5 and no bowl invite. USM was 7 points away from finishing 9-2 and hosting the CUSA champ. game. 7 freaking points. Run game was terrible, play-calling was terrible, S/C was suspect...so Jay Hopson replaces our OL, OC, and S/C coaches and the outlook for 2019 looks great!

2019 thus far: We lose our AD to ECU, which most USM fans aren't sweating because he really didn't do much. So, we hire Troy's AD Jeremy McClain who is a USM guy who wants to be here and wants to do good for us. What's also good news is we return nearly everyone from our '18 team that was 7 points away from going 9-2 and hosting the 'ship. What does 2019 hold? I predict we beat in-state foe Mississippi State, win 10+ games, host the 'ship, and possibly flirt w/ the T20 towards the end of the season.

Another crucial thing is that prior to the 2017 season our AD stopped giving away free tix to many of the local business/organizations etc. Apparently USM had been doing this for the past 20 years or so. Naturally our attendance went down but we actually made more money from tix sales.

Not to mention in 2018, the whole thing with Kwadra Griggs, who would have been the starting QB. Off the team, on the team, leaves the team, it just left me confused.

It is just my opinion, but I think North Texas has benefited the most from being a member of C-USA 3.0. Other programs have too, but UNT seems to be thriving. This western division line-up, combined with solid leadership over the last few seasons, has allowed UNT to grow their athletic department and fan base. It is night and day from where we were when we left the Sun Belt.

Grown

(08-14-2019 03:54 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 02:21 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  Since 2013, he's 12-21 (.363) vs FBS teams that finish with winning records.

That's fair to look at... but... then again... when's the last time you compared that same stat to others? I happen to have looked at Alabama not so long ago in that general (not exact) light... here's what I found...



https://csnbbs.com/thread-862667-page-4.html

And that's ALL auto-school competition, not just the ones with winning records.

So, fair to look at? Yes. Fair to draw conclusions w/o comparatives? Nah. Have to have context.

I am one of the few that see it this way, though I will not take credit for what you found. I am just not into blasting a coach who has won, never lost a bowl game etc. I feel that today, expecting a coach to be in the champ game every year, other year etc, doesn't allow for credit to be given to other programs. This isn't the MAC pre 2003 as far as performance goes. Just my opinion.

Our season ticket sales have dropped from 70 to 64.

(08-14-2019 06:43 PM)HERD1 Wrote:  Absolutely downward. Marshall has lost thousands of fans over last 5 years.

One reason: Johnny "No Nuts" / "Punts a lot" Holliday.

9 Years of under performing.

Well we could have huge nuts/go for it on our own 25 Kiffin.......and not make it. Just saying

(08-15-2019 10:54 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  Our season ticket sales have dropped from 70 to 64.

That's a pathetic figure. I hope it's way off. The product has been so bad for so long that no one cares anymore.

(08-15-2019 12:44 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-15-2019 10:54 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  Our season ticket sales have dropped from 70 to 64.

That's a pathetic figure. I hope it's way off. The product has been so bad for so long that no one cares anymore.

There's these things called jokes . . .