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Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
(07-22-2019 10:32 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  
(07-22-2019 09:00 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(07-22-2019 07:57 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  
(07-22-2019 07:50 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(07-21-2019 04:42 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Youngstown St

Hard pass. The last thing this league needs is another Ohio university.

Is Cleveland saying Western Kentucky was considered in the 1997 expansion but Eastern Michigan blocked it? I never heard any of that.

The premise is that the MAC lost a school, which would probably be Kent, so YSU would be a worthy replacement but I would still prefer Marshall for the bad blood rivalries.

Probably be Kent? Based on what? With 29,000 students on the main campus, Kent is certainly not going to be forced out of FBS, and with Kent's football performance it's certainly not going to get an invite to a raided AAC ... rather then being the most likely to leave, it seems like one of the schools least likely to leave.

Kent seems the least prominent in football and most likely to cut football to focus on their other very good sports teams. I could def see Kent going the way of a Wichita State and funding the heck out of basketball, golf, baseball etc. The football culture just isn't there as of 2019. They are improving in football... But their coaches all bolt after flash in a pan... It's not that Kent isn't good enough for the MAC, it's that they could have better options taking football out of the equation. Ball State and EMU are the only schools more likely to leave and that would be for funding reasons. This is all moot though. No one is leaving the safest, most stable league in FBS.

I have to agree with Bruce on this one. Kent is too large of a school to give up on FBS even if it means rare bowl appearances.
07-22-2019 11:09 PM
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H2Oville Rocket Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
(07-22-2019 10:32 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  
(07-22-2019 09:00 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(07-22-2019 07:57 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  
(07-22-2019 07:50 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(07-21-2019 04:42 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Youngstown St

Hard pass. The last thing this league needs is another Ohio university.

Is Cleveland saying Western Kentucky was considered in the 1997 expansion but Eastern Michigan blocked it? I never heard any of that.

The premise is that the MAC lost a school, which would probably be Kent, so YSU would be a worthy replacement but I would still prefer Marshall for the bad blood rivalries.

Probably be Kent? Based on what? With 29,000 students on the main campus, Kent is certainly not going to be forced out of FBS, and with Kent's football performance it's certainly not going to get an invite to a raided AAC ... rather then being the most likely to leave, it seems like one of the schools least likely to leave.

Kent seems the least prominent in football and most likely to cut football to focus on their other very good sports teams. I could def see Kent going the way of a Wichita State and funding the heck out of basketball, golf, baseball etc. The football culture just isn't there as of 2019. They are improving in football... But their coaches all bolt after flash in a pan... It's not that Kent isn't good enough for the MAC, it's that they could have better options taking football out of the equation. Ball State and EMU are the only schools more likely to leave and that would be for funding reasons. This is all moot though. No one is leaving the safest, most stable league in FBS.

“Flash in a pan”. . . I see what you did there.
07-23-2019 06:42 AM
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Motown Bronco Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
As kreed said, current CUSA and Sun Belt teams are unrealistic and immediately off the table. We are all about even and we're certainly not perceived as a step "up" for them.

I would reach out to NDSU or JMU. And it's no guarantee even they would be interested, but I'd attempt.
07-23-2019 07:55 AM
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FMRocket Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
(07-23-2019 07:55 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  As kreed said, current CUSA and Sun Belt teams are unrealistic and immediately off the table. We are all about even and we're certainly not perceived as a step "up" for them.

I would reach out to NDSU or JMU. And it's no guarantee even they would be interested, but I'd attempt.

I think NDSU and JMU would jump at an invite to the MAC...
Definitely would stretch the footprint out each direction, but both schools would be ready with great facilities/fan base, and I believe adding them would strengthen the perception of the conference...
(This post was last modified: 07-23-2019 09:13 AM by FMRocket.)
07-23-2019 09:09 AM
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cmufanatic Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
(07-23-2019 09:09 AM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(07-23-2019 07:55 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  As kreed said, current CUSA and Sun Belt teams are unrealistic and immediately off the table. We are all about even and we're certainly not perceived as a step "up" for them.

I would reach out to NDSU or JMU. And it's no guarantee even they would be interested, but I'd attempt.

I think NDSU and JMU would jump at an invite to the MAC...
Definitely would stretch the footprint out each direction, but both schools would be ready with great facilities/fan base, and I believe adding them would strengthen the perception of the conference...

agree
07-23-2019 09:21 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
(07-22-2019 10:32 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Kent seems the least prominent in football and most likely to cut football to focus on their other very good sports teams. I could def see Kent going the way of a Wichita State and funding the heck out of basketball, golf, baseball etc.

Except there is no Basketball conference that would invite Kent that Kent would rather be in than the MAC, and no Baseball conference that would invite Kent that Kent would rather be in than the MAC. MAC basketball finally gets to the position of having a NIT at-large bid and a reasonably decent Tourney seed and now you think you can shoo us off?

Luckily the MAC Presidents don't think the same way.

It may be that Kent needs to look at the talent they can get and get a system coach that can work with it to take their regular MAC opposition out of their comfort zone ... as well as being outside of what the Big Ten schools are looking for.

But be that as it may, a university with 29,000 students at the main campus and 39,000 students system wide is not going to be forced out of FBS against its will anytime soon, and being forced out of FBS is what it would take place for Kent State to drop football this close to the century mark.

Back to the topic, one style of opening would be because the AAC go raided and needed to reload. None of the MAC schools are on their short list, but if their short list all said "no", and they were forced to work their way down the list, if it's in the foreseeable future, it's a school with a relatively strong football pedigree in a location that is less bad than similar alternatives. I have no idea who that would be.

The other style of opening is because a school drops out of FBS. Most of the MAC schools are in FBS because they fought tooth and nail to stay in FBS back when FBS and FCS were 1-A and 1-AA and succeeded. And now, after most of the schools who were the most attractive to play in FCS back in the 80s and 90s have moved up to FBS, they aren't about to get pushed down if they can help it. Akron killed off it's baseball program to protect its football budget during its last round of budget cuts (even if baseball supporters have worked out a way to get a facsimile of a Division I baseball program going again) ... it wouldn't be the only MAC school willing to make the same decision if it came down to it.

So it would have to be an unusually severe budget crisis, probably a combination of a period of bad fiscal management coming to roost just as a economic or state fiscal crisis hits to make things worst. And predicting something like that is even harder than predicting which MAC school will be seen as the least ugly of the wallflowers if the American is getting desperate.

All up, if it happens, either JMU{+} or play as an 11 University conference. Heck, we spent 20 years trying to work out from under imbalanced divisions, with any luck before it comes to that divisionless top-two CCG's for under 12 school conferences will be the rule and the MAC can just go to divisionless play with some locked schools and some schools two years out of four.

{+ Or NDSU if we can convince them to move to the Milwaukee area.}
(This post was last modified: 07-23-2019 11:09 AM by BruceMcF.)
07-23-2019 10:04 AM
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Post: #27
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
(07-23-2019 07:55 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  As kreed said, current CUSA and Sun Belt teams are unrealistic and immediately off the table. We are all about even and we're certainly not perceived as a step "up" for them.

Marshall is probably unlikely, but "immediately off the table" seems a bit strong.
07-23-2019 11:03 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
(07-23-2019 11:03 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(07-23-2019 07:55 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  As kreed said, current CUSA and Sun Belt teams are unrealistic and immediately off the table. We are all about even and we're certainly not perceived as a step "up" for them.

Marshall is probably unlikely, but "immediately off the table" seems a bit strong.

Take Marshall back to independence and give them a chance to join either CUSA East as it currently stands or the MAC East as it would stand after they join it ... and they'll take CUSA East.

So it's off the table unless something happens to their current division to make it substantially less appealing.
07-23-2019 11:08 AM
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Post: #29
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
(07-23-2019 11:08 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(07-23-2019 11:03 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(07-23-2019 07:55 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  As kreed said, current CUSA and Sun Belt teams are unrealistic and immediately off the table. We are all about even and we're certainly not perceived as a step "up" for them.

Marshall is probably unlikely, but "immediately off the table" seems a bit strong.

Take Marshall back to independence and give them a chance to join either CUSA East as it currently stands or the MAC East as it would stand after they join it ... and they'll take CUSA East.

I actually disagree with this. Travel in the MAC would be substantially less expensive. Part of the reason they stay in Conference USA is inertia.

I imagine Marshall prefers playing Southern schools and on Saturday nights in November, even if it means flying the volleyball team to Texas now and again. But it's a much closer call at this point than it was when Marshall left.
07-23-2019 11:22 AM
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Post: #30
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
(07-23-2019 09:21 AM)cmufanatic Wrote:  
(07-23-2019 09:09 AM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(07-23-2019 07:55 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  As kreed said, current CUSA and Sun Belt teams are unrealistic and immediately off the table. We are all about even and we're certainly not perceived as a step "up" for them.

I would reach out to NDSU or JMU. And it's no guarantee even they would be interested, but I'd attempt.

I think NDSU and JMU would jump at an invite to the MAC...
Definitely would stretch the footprint out each direction, but both schools would be ready with great facilities/fan base, and I believe adding them would strengthen the perception of the conference...

agree

If we go the NDSU route, I’d go with NDSU FB-only/NKU oly-sports. NDSU keeps everything else in the Summit and finally gets to compete at FBS where they belong. NKU is a good program in the footprint with a beautiful arena. Everyone wins under this arrangement, imo.
07-23-2019 01:23 PM
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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
Kent leaving the MAC to go to a basketball focused conference 03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao What conference would that be? The MVC since its been raided is about on par with the MAC and all the other conferences that are basketball 1st that are better than the MAC feature catholic/private schools. I see no problem with Kent plowing their resources into basketball and not just because I enjoy beating them every year in football, which I do. Even conferences like the B1G has schools who punt on football to focus on basketball. Not everyone can be top dog in football.
(This post was last modified: 07-23-2019 02:00 PM by kreed5120.)
07-23-2019 01:45 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
I'd assume that the addition would be from some sort of AAC grab with C-USA falling apart. I'd go for Marshall and possibly MTSU and WKU. And if available ECU and ODU or Charlotte.
07-23-2019 03:34 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
(07-23-2019 11:22 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  I actually disagree with this. Travel in the MAC would be substantially less expensive. Part of the reason they stay in Conference USA is inertia.

I imagine Marshall prefers playing Southern schools and on Saturday nights in November, even if it means flying the volleyball team to Texas now and again.

Travel would be less expensive, but they are very much a football-first school, and a division of ODU, MTSU, Charlotte, WKU is a better fit for them than a bunch of Ohio schools and Buffalo. Two Florida schools with an annual trip to Florida is definitely more appealing recruiting grounds than two northeast Ohio schools with an annual trip to the Greater Cleveland Area.

OhioU seems like the only game they really care about in the MAC, and they seem to be able to get OOC games with the Bobcats.

I'm sure they liked the CUSA they joined more, but there was a reason that MTSU and WKU were invited to join CUSA after the American raided ECU.
(This post was last modified: 07-23-2019 07:27 PM by BruceMcF.)
07-23-2019 07:26 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
(07-23-2019 11:03 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(07-23-2019 07:55 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  As kreed said, current CUSA and Sun Belt teams are unrealistic and immediately off the table. We are all about even and we're certainly not perceived as a step "up" for them.

Marshall is probably unlikely, but "immediately off the table" seems a bit strong.

App should also apply.
07-24-2019 06:03 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
(07-23-2019 10:04 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  So it would have to be an unusually severe budget crisis, probably a combination of a period of bad fiscal management coming to roost just as a economic or state fiscal crisis hits to make things worst. And predicting something like that is even harder than predicting which MAC school will be seen as the least ugly of the wallflowers if the American is getting desperate.

UConn has a MAC sized enrollment and endowment yet tried to run a 79 million dollar athletic budget. It became unsustainable for them.

A lot of the AAC fans around here point to MAC schools as the ones with the unsustainable model. MAC schools spend 4 to 5 million on salaries for the entire athletic department while that will buy you 1 football coach at some of the AAC schools.
07-24-2019 06:11 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
(07-23-2019 07:26 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(07-23-2019 11:22 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  I actually disagree with this. Travel in the MAC would be substantially less expensive. Part of the reason they stay in Conference USA is inertia.

I imagine Marshall prefers playing Southern schools and on Saturday nights in November, even if it means flying the volleyball team to Texas now and again.

Travel would be less expensive, but they are very much a football-first school, and a division of ODU, MTSU, Charlotte, WKU is a better fit for them than a bunch of Ohio schools and Buffalo. Two Florida schools with an annual trip to Florida is definitely more appealing recruiting grounds than two northeast Ohio schools with an annual trip to the Greater Cleveland Area.

OhioU seems like the only game they really care about in the MAC, and they seem to be able to get OOC games with the Bobcats.

I'm sure they liked the CUSA they joined more, but there was a reason that MTSU and WKU were invited to join CUSA after the American raided ECU.

The CUSA Marshall joined was at the time a step up in TV and bowls. The closest opponents Memphis, UAB, ECU were not too important strategically for them.

But you are right in that MTSU, WKU, Charlotte and ODU have strategic value even though CUSA is reduced to a marginal TV package and bowls no better than the MAC. The Ohio-Marshall game this year in Huntington is live on Facebook.

Ohio when Marshall left for CUSA 2.0 agreed to a 6 game series but since that time has only signed a 2 game series with the Herd. The feeling on the Ohio side is they'd rather make room for series like Cincinnati and Syracuse than to square up against Marshall every year. Marshall doesn't need a regular FB series with Ohio as badly with the addition of WKU, MTSU, ODU, Charlotte ect.

Marshall has tried to recruit Ohio into CUSA on several occasions and a potential CUSA East split off conference. If it was a 3-4 bid NCAA conference like the AAC and included A10 teams like Dayton and VCU it might be worth it but not just to play CUSA East.
07-24-2019 06:30 AM
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Post: #37
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
Marshall's cultural connection to southern schools as an impetus for them to join/remain in CUSA cannot be overstated. It was mentioned as a reason by both their fans and athletic department alike, and I can't imagine it's changed much since then.

Indeed, CUSA lost its marquee programs from when Marshall joined. But I think it would take some serious financial woes and an almost desperate desire for cheaper travel costs for Marshall to rejoin the MAC.
07-24-2019 07:06 AM
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Post: #38
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
(07-22-2019 08:18 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  It completely depends on who leaves.

If there is an opening in the east I'd say Marshall. That opening would probably be from Akron dropping down or Buffalo moving on. Both scenarios however are very unlikely.

If the opening is in the west I'd say Illinois St. They are the logical replacement for NIU if they were to leave. If Toledo is gone there is no point in shifting BG to the west so might as well bring in another western school.

The school that I mentioned a lot by the MAC fans is WKU but they are real happy in CUSA 3.0.

Division alignment should not be a consideration at all. Take the best candidate in or near the existing MAC footprint and if BG needs to change divisions....it wouldn't be the first time.
07-24-2019 07:25 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
(07-24-2019 07:06 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Marshall's cultural connection to southern schools as an impetus for them to join/remain in CUSA cannot be overstated. It was mentioned as a reason by both their fans and athletic department alike, and I can't imagine it's changed much since then.

Indeed, CUSA lost its marquee programs from when Marshall joined. But I think it would take some serious financial woes and an almost desperate desire for cheaper travel costs for Marshall to rejoin the MAC.

From what I heard the lack of interest cuts both ways.

The commissioner of the MAC has said that Marshall's academic deficiencies doesn't buy them a lot of support from the presidents.

http://www.bobcatattack.com/messageboard...PID=284802

But they do have a competitive G5 football program that would be above average on any given year.
07-24-2019 08:07 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Who would you add if the MAC lost a school?
(07-24-2019 08:07 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(07-24-2019 07:06 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Marshall's cultural connection to southern schools as an impetus for them to join/remain in CUSA cannot be overstated. It was mentioned as a reason by both their fans and athletic department alike, and I can't imagine it's changed much since then.

Indeed, CUSA lost its marquee programs from when Marshall joined. But I think it would take some serious financial woes and an almost desperate desire for cheaper travel costs for Marshall to rejoin the MAC.

From what I heard the lack of interest cuts both ways.

The commissioner of the MAC has said that Marshall's academic deficiencies doesn't buy them a lot of support from the presidents.

http://www.bobcatattack.com/messageboard...PID=284802

Yeah, that is part of why the MAC was willing to pull the trigger on a JMU invite if UMass had exercised the "all-in" option in the "all-in / all-out" ultimatum. JMU is better institutional fit than Marshall was.
07-24-2019 09:53 AM
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