The thought occurred to me that private schools that run a deficit on athletic programs are in an interesting pickle.

They have to be very selective with enrollment so the notion of exposing their school to potential students comes at a high price per capita. They can't spread the cost over large numbers of students unlike their larger public counterparts.

They do tend to have big money donors, true, but the odds of acquiring a sufficient number of them as the years roll on seems a bit slim. Sure, they'll always have alumni dedicated to funding academic initiatives, but the athletic component could be more difficult to navigate as we recently saw with Vanderbilt officials calling on their AD to only solicit certain donors. And that's Vandy...a school with very strong revenue coming in due to their conference affiliation. Most privates are not that lucky.

I decided to look up some stats just to get a picture on enrollment and found this from the National Center for Education Statistics:

Undergraduate enrollment

Some interesting tidbits from a simplified breakdown of numbers. You have to scroll down a bit to get the relevant graphics.

1. Private non-profit schools are still growing, but not very fast. Between 2000 and 2017, the enrollment nationwide grew from 2.2 million to 2.7 million undergrads. During that same time period, the publics grew from 10.5 million to 13.7 million. The private for-profit schools had more of a rollercoaster. They grew until 2010 and then declined a good bit. To my knowledge though, there no longer remain any private for-profits in major college athletics.

2. When it comes to 4 year schools, a good percentage of new students were enrolled in exclusively online classes. At publics, it was 8%. At private non-profits, however, that number doubled to 16%. It was astronomically higher at private for-profits...

So while the number of private enrollees is still growing, a lot of them are going to online classes which means their dedication to athletics in the long haul is questionable.

That and by sheer numbers, publics are still growing ever larger. That means they can distribute the burden a little better and it also means they'll have more alumni in the future to donate.

Even when you put aside the distinctions between P5 and G5, I think a lot of these small private schools are the first on the chopping block.

(07-06-2019 07:11 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  The thought occurred to me that private schools that run a deficit on athletic programs are in an interesting pickle.

They have to be very selective with enrollment so the notion of exposing their school to potential students comes at a high price per capita. They can't spread the cost over large numbers of students unlike their larger public counterparts.

They do tend to have big money donors, true, but the odds of acquiring a sufficient number of them as the years roll on seems a bit slim. Sure, they'll always have alumni dedicated to funding academic initiatives, but the athletic component could be more difficult to navigate as we recently saw with Vanderbilt officials calling on their AD to only solicit certain donors. And that's Vandy...a school with very strong revenue coming in due to their conference affiliation. Most privates are not that lucky.

I decided to look up some stats just to get a picture on enrollment and found this from the National Center for Education Statistics:

Undergraduate enrollment

Some interesting tidbits from a simplified breakdown of numbers. You have to scroll down a bit to get the relevant graphics.

1. Private non-profit schools are still growing, but not very fast. Between 2000 and 2017, the enrollment nationwide grew from 2.2 million to 2.7 million undergrads. During that same time period, the publics grew from 10.5 million to 13.7 million. The private for-profit schools had more of a rollercoaster. They grew until 2010 and then declined a good bit. To my knowledge though, there no longer remain any private for-profits in major college athletics.

2. When it comes to 4 year schools, a good percentage of new students were enrolled in exclusively online classes. At publics, it was 8%. At private non-profits, however, that number doubled to 16%. It was astronomically higher at private for-profits...

So while the number of private enrollees is still growing, a lot of them are going to online classes which means their dedication to athletics in the long haul is questionable.

That and by sheer numbers, publics are still growing ever larger. That means they can distribute the burden a little better and it also means they'll have more alumni in the future to donate.

Even when you put aside the distinctions between P5 and G5, I think a lot of these small private schools are the first on the chopping block.

I believe future realignment will bear this out.

Depends on who you are

A lot of G5 private’s are going to have make tough, UCONN type choices sooner rather later because they just can’t keep sinking money into football when they’ll never make the conference money to support it

The P5 private’s are in much better shape and outside the PAC, there’s no real pressure for them to be good in football to carry the conference

Vandy is a good example. They carry their share by being a great academic school in an important southern market who is very good at baseball and basketball. We only ask that they at least invest a little in their stadiums amenities for all the visiting fans that prop up their ticket sales. As long as it remains like this, Vandy is fine.

Now are there privates out there like Baylor or Wake Forest who only marginally make up for the headaches they give their conference? Of course. But they’re probably safe simply by tradition and are lucky they were included when they were.

(07-06-2019 07:11 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  The thought occurred to me that private schools that run a deficit on athletic programs are in an interesting pickle.

They have to be very selective with enrollment so the notion of exposing their school to potential students comes at a high price per capita. They can't spread the cost over large numbers of students unlike their larger public counterparts.

They do tend to have big money donors, true, but the odds of acquiring a sufficient number of them as the years roll on seems a bit slim. Sure, they'll always have alumni dedicated to funding academic initiatives, but the athletic component could be more difficult to navigate as we recently saw with Vanderbilt officials calling on their AD to only solicit certain donors. And that's Vandy...a school with very strong revenue coming in due to their conference affiliation. Most privates are not that lucky.

I decided to look up some stats just to get a picture on enrollment and found this from the National Center for Education Statistics:

Undergraduate enrollment

Some interesting tidbits from a simplified breakdown of numbers. You have to scroll down a bit to get the relevant graphics.

1. Private non-profit schools are still growing, but not very fast. Between 2000 and 2017, the enrollment nationwide grew from 2.2 million to 2.7 million undergrads. During that same time period, the publics grew from 10.5 million to 13.7 million. The private for-profit schools had more of a rollercoaster. They grew until 2010 and then declined a good bit. To my knowledge though, there no longer remain any private for-profits in major college athletics.

2. When it comes to 4 year schools, a good percentage of new students were enrolled in exclusively online classes. At publics, it was 8%. At private non-profits, however, that number doubled to 16%. It was astronomically higher at private for-profits...

So while the number of private enrollees is still growing, a lot of them are going to online classes which means their dedication to athletics in the long haul is questionable.

That and by sheer numbers, publics are still growing ever larger. That means they can distribute the burden a little better and it also means they'll have more alumni in the future to donate.

Even when you put aside the distinctions between P5 and G5, I think a lot of these small private schools are the first on the chopping block.

The flip side of this is that on down the line those publics that are growing larger and larger still may create some realignment themselves. Take Florida: the top 4 schools by enrollment are: UCF, FIU, UF, and USF. I knew that UCF/USF were large schools, but sheer size means FIU has potential at some point. In fact, by 2017-2018 enrollment, FIU is only smaller than UCF, Texas A&M, and Ohio State. A school like that probably won't be satisfied in C-USA for long. Georgia State comes in at 9. A school the size of Texas shouldn't be beating up teams in the Sun Belt.

I know it probably won't happen (I'd say a 1/100 shot) but those numbers tell me the AAC should think strongly about Georgia State to replace UConn, especially if they get some guarantees of investment.

Schools like several of the Cal State or UC schools are all in the top 50 for enrollment (recognizing fluctuation happens). Others in the top 50 include Houston, Temple, Texas State, North Texas, Utah Valley and Cincinnati, even George Mason and Kennesaw State. SDSU also just barely makes it.

That doesn't even mention BYU or NYU or Liberty.

Enrollment obviously doesn't tell the full story, but it does show some mismatches that I think might eventually need to be rectified. If the SEC ever took a G5 school, a school like USF with top 10 enrollment and solid research might not be a bad way to look.

(07-07-2019 08:54 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Depends on who you are

A lot of G5 private’s are going to have make tough, UCONN type choices sooner rather later because they just can’t keep sinking money into football when they’ll never make the conference money to support it

The P5 private’s are in much better shape and outside the PAC, there’s no real pressure for them to be good in football to carry the conference

Vandy is a good example. They carry their share by being a great academic school in an important southern market who is very good at baseball and basketball. We only ask that they at least invest a little in their stadiums amenities for all the visiting fans that prop up their ticket sales. As long as it remains like this, Vandy is fine.

Now are there privates out there like Baylor or Wake Forest who only marginally make up for the headaches they give their conference? Of course. But they’re probably safe simply by tradition and are lucky they were included when they were.

I do agree that this idea shouldn't be a hard and fast rule.

Notre Dame doesn't have a huge enrollment, but they aren't going anywhere. Stanford will be fine...actually they make a lot of money.

I'm a little more concerned about the Wake Forests and the Vanderbilts of the world. The sort of schools where a disproportionate amount of their revenue is coming from TV contracts. Are they willing to invest in the future? Can they afford to invest?

We've talked about it before, but I wonder if some schools like that aren't headed for partial membership. They bring a certain degree of value to the conference, but at some point I think it will be questionable if they can keep up.

Possibly,

I can see a few G5’s emerging as potential P Conference schools

I doubt any of them are truly SEC candidates since we tend not to do urban commuter schools, but hey who knows.

(07-07-2019 06:56 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Possibly,

I can see a few G5’s emerging as potential P Conference schools

I doubt any of them are truly SEC candidates since we tend not to do urban commuter schools, but hey who knows.

Who? USF has the best potential but they are 20 years away and if they remain at AAC level pay for that time it will hard for them to make up the difference. There may be some demand from the PAC for a Houston, but that's a really long shot. B.Y.U. remains the best bet IMO.

As for Privates Vandy will hold out as long as is possible, but a partial would probably be in everyone's best interest at some point. Maybe Wake and Duke could do the same with the ACC. But even Miami and B.C. have not be desirous of pumping more money into athletics.

T.C.U. and Baylor will do everything they can to stick in a P5. USC and Stanford along with Northwestern and Notre Dame will do all in their power to make the jump. Virginia is an example of a state school that may react like a private.

I think it's a mixed bag and we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.

I do wonder what will happen in the future with schools like UCF and USF. They're continuing to pump out thousands and thousands of graduates every year, by virtue of math alone they will eventually outnumber UF/FSU grads. At some point those graduates will become successful adults and retirees and become donors. More graduates also means more representation in state houses and Governor's mansions as well.

It's not hard to imagine a world where mega donors begin to decline, and at that point perhaps casting the largest net becomes most important. I'm not sure, but it'll be important to track, particularly if those schools remain successful on the field.

Personally, I think USF is a good option in the future. I wouldn't even mind adding them sooner than later if a spot opened up. Helping them gain ground and grooming them a bit could pay dividends, I think.

I like the idea of finding spots for Tulane and Rice being that they're already in our footprint. The consortium would benefit from that as well. If you threw Vanderbilt and maybe one more private together in some sort of arrangement where they didn't participate as football members then it might make sense.

The privates could act as independents in football. To help them fill their schedules out, the conference could promise them 4 games a season...2 home and 2 away. They could all play each other and that's 7 total. They've only got 5 more dates to fill which isn't that different being they have to fill 4 non-conference games right now. They could use those spots traveling around the country to play some similar institutions...or other independents. They could probably get Notre Dame, BYU, and Army on a regular basis. That alone would help with getting on national TV.

For Tulane and Rice, that's an upgrade especially if it comes with a little more money. For Vanderbilt, it's a downgrade if it costs them a full share of the TV contract. I could see them going for it though if they didn't have to spend as much on football. Coaching salaries, facilities, and other expenses could make a competitive football program untenable for them in the future.

What you could do is give each school a quarter share. So all together, they are paid like one full member. Especially if our money increases with the addition of some power schools then it's not a very big downgrade for Vandy.

How about this for a 4th private member? Mercer? They've committed to FCS football and I can see them attempting another jump. They have a pretty good academic reputation. They're already in the footprint at that.

(07-08-2019 01:32 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Personally, I think USF is a good option in the future. I wouldn't even mind adding them sooner than later if a spot opened up. Helping them gain ground and grooming them a bit could pay dividends, I think.

I like the idea of finding spots for Tulane and Rice being that they're already in our footprint. The consortium would benefit from that as well. If you threw Vanderbilt and maybe one more private together in some sort of arrangement where they didn't participate as football members then it might make sense.

The privates could act as independents in football. To help them fill their schedules out, the conference could promise them 4 games a season...2 home and 2 away. They could all play each other and that's 7 total. They've only got 5 more dates to fill which isn't that different being they have to fill 4 non-conference games right now. They could use those spots traveling around the country to play some similar institutions...or other independents. They could probably get Notre Dame, BYU, and Army on a regular basis. That alone would help with getting on national TV.

For Tulane and Rice, that's an upgrade especially if it comes with a little more money. For Vanderbilt, it's a downgrade if it costs them a full share of the TV contract. I could see them going for it though if they didn't have to spend as much on football. Coaching salaries, facilities, and other expenses could make a competitive football program untenable for them in the future.

What you could do is give each school a quarter share. So all together, they are paid like one full member. Especially if our money increases with the addition of some power schools then it's not a very big downgrade for Vandy.

How about this for a 4th private member? Mercer? They've committed to FCS football and I can see them attempting another jump. They have a pretty good academic reputation. They're already in the footprint at that.

Cool idea on Tulane, Rice, and Vandy. That could actually work quite well. To bad we can't pull Sewanee back in lol

(07-08-2019 01:32 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Personally, I think USF is a good option in the future. I wouldn't even mind adding them sooner than later if a spot opened up. Helping them gain ground and grooming them a bit could pay dividends, I think.

I like the idea of finding spots for Tulane and Rice being that they're already in our footprint. The consortium would benefit from that as well. If you threw Vanderbilt and maybe one more private together in some sort of arrangement where they didn't participate as football members then it might make sense.

The privates could act as independents in football. To help them fill their schedules out, the conference could promise them 4 games a season...2 home and 2 away. They could all play each other and that's 7 total. They've only got 5 more dates to fill which isn't that different being they have to fill 4 non-conference games right now. They could use those spots traveling around the country to play some similar institutions...or other independents. They could probably get Notre Dame, BYU, and Army on a regular basis. That alone would help with getting on national TV.

For Tulane and Rice, that's an upgrade especially if it comes with a little more money. For Vanderbilt, it's a downgrade if it costs them a full share of the TV contract. I could see them going for it though if they didn't have to spend as much on football. Coaching salaries, facilities, and other expenses could make a competitive football program untenable for them in the future...

I wonder if the "Magnolia League" idea could be resurrected? Toss in Wake Forest, Duke and possibly Miami (maybe even one or more of Pitt, Syracuse and BC) from the ACC and you've got yourself a decent private school conference. You might be able to draw Baylor and TCU from the Big XII as well.

(07-08-2019 03:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-08-2019 01:32 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Personally, I think USF is a good option in the future. I wouldn't even mind adding them sooner than later if a spot opened up. Helping them gain ground and grooming them a bit could pay dividends, I think.

I like the idea of finding spots for Tulane and Rice being that they're already in our footprint. The consortium would benefit from that as well. If you threw Vanderbilt and maybe one more private together in some sort of arrangement where they didn't participate as football members then it might make sense.

The privates could act as independents in football. To help them fill their schedules out, the conference could promise them 4 games a season...2 home and 2 away. They could all play each other and that's 7 total. They've only got 5 more dates to fill which isn't that different being they have to fill 4 non-conference games right now. They could use those spots traveling around the country to play some similar institutions...or other independents. They could probably get Notre Dame, BYU, and Army on a regular basis. That alone would help with getting on national TV.

For Tulane and Rice, that's an upgrade especially if it comes with a little more money. For Vanderbilt, it's a downgrade if it costs them a full share of the TV contract. I could see them going for it though if they didn't have to spend as much on football. Coaching salaries, facilities, and other expenses could make a competitive football program untenable for them in the future...

I wonder if the "Magnolia League" idea could be resurrected? Toss in Wake Forest, Duke and possibly Miami (maybe even one or more of Pitt, Syracuse and BC) from the ACC and you've got yourself a decent private school conference. You might be able to draw Baylor and TCU from the Big XII as well.

Magnolia East:
Army
Boston College
Duke
Miami
Navy
Temple
Wake Forest

Magnolia West:
Air Force
Baylor
Rice
Southern Methodist
Tulane
Tulsa
Vanderbilt

(07-08-2019 03:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-08-2019 03:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-08-2019 01:32 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Personally, I think USF is a good option in the future. I wouldn't even mind adding them sooner than later if a spot opened up. Helping them gain ground and grooming them a bit could pay dividends, I think.

I like the idea of finding spots for Tulane and Rice being that they're already in our footprint. The consortium would benefit from that as well. If you threw Vanderbilt and maybe one more private together in some sort of arrangement where they didn't participate as football members then it might make sense.

The privates could act as independents in football. To help them fill their schedules out, the conference could promise them 4 games a season...2 home and 2 away. They could all play each other and that's 7 total. They've only got 5 more dates to fill which isn't that different being they have to fill 4 non-conference games right now. They could use those spots traveling around the country to play some similar institutions...or other independents. They could probably get Notre Dame, BYU, and Army on a regular basis. That alone would help with getting on national TV.

For Tulane and Rice, that's an upgrade especially if it comes with a little more money. For Vanderbilt, it's a downgrade if it costs them a full share of the TV contract. I could see them going for it though if they didn't have to spend as much on football. Coaching salaries, facilities, and other expenses could make a competitive football program untenable for them in the future...

I wonder if the "Magnolia League" idea could be resurrected? Toss in Wake Forest, Duke and possibly Miami (maybe even one or more of Pitt, Syracuse and BC) from the ACC and you've got yourself a decent private school conference. You might be able to draw Baylor and TCU from the Big XII as well.

Magnolia East:
Army
Boston College
Duke
Miami
Navy
Temple
Wake Forest

Magnolia West:
Air Force
Baylor
Rice
Southern Methodist
Tulane
Tulsa
Vanderbilt

Except for Army-Navy issues, that is a really solid conference. It would be slightly above the current AAC conference. I'd maybe through in Pitt and TCU for a 16 team league.

That would crush the ACC though, as they would lose: Wake, Pitt, BC, Duke and Miami
I would see:
SEC takes: NC State, VT, FSU, Clemson, Louisville* (Louisville only because they'd be at 14-1+4=17, and need an extra)
Big 10 takes: Virginia, UNC, GT, Syracuse

To keep up, PAC would have to take: Texas, Tech, OK, State, Kansas, State.
That would leave WVU and Iowa State for the remains of the AAC (Houston, Cincy, USF/UCF, ECU, Memphis)

AAC forms a western division: BYU, Boise, NM, Colorado St., SDSU, UNLV (+Iowa State) to get back to 14.

New MWC: Texas St., North Texas, UTSA, UTEP, Wyoming, Utah St., Hawaii, Nevada, Fresno, San Jose

Sun Belt+ Conference USA form a 20 team league with the leftovers + one of UMass/Liberty/UConn/FCS Call Up?

(07-08-2019 03:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-08-2019 01:32 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Personally, I think USF is a good option in the future. I wouldn't even mind adding them sooner than later if a spot opened up. Helping them gain ground and grooming them a bit could pay dividends, I think.

I like the idea of finding spots for Tulane and Rice being that they're already in our footprint. The consortium would benefit from that as well. If you threw Vanderbilt and maybe one more private together in some sort of arrangement where they didn't participate as football members then it might make sense.

The privates could act as independents in football. To help them fill their schedules out, the conference could promise them 4 games a season...2 home and 2 away. They could all play each other and that's 7 total. They've only got 5 more dates to fill which isn't that different being they have to fill 4 non-conference games right now. They could use those spots traveling around the country to play some similar institutions...or other independents. They could probably get Notre Dame, BYU, and Army on a regular basis. That alone would help with getting on national TV.

For Tulane and Rice, that's an upgrade especially if it comes with a little more money. For Vanderbilt, it's a downgrade if it costs them a full share of the TV contract. I could see them going for it though if they didn't have to spend as much on football. Coaching salaries, facilities, and other expenses could make a competitive football program untenable for them in the future...

I wonder if the "Magnolia League" idea could be resurrected? Toss in Wake Forest, Duke and possibly Miami (maybe even one or more of Pitt, Syracuse and BC) from the ACC and you've got yourself a decent private school conference. You might be able to draw Baylor and TCU from the Big XII as well.

The thing about the Magnolia League idea is they wouldn't generate a lot of money all to themselves.

It would help some of the Power leagues manage better as many of the privates don't really bring large fan bases, but there would be sacrifices. I think to encourage some of these schools to abandon their current arrangement, they'd still have to be connected to a Power conference. Even then, I'm not sure the money would work.

Some of these schools do have value in some respects, but they just don't bring a lot of brand power in football and that makes most of the money.

I'm not sure if the quasi-independence move would save them while also adding something of value to a Power league. Just a thought, I guess.

(07-08-2019 05:09 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(07-08-2019 03:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-08-2019 01:32 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Personally, I think USF is a good option in the future. I wouldn't even mind adding them sooner than later if a spot opened up. Helping them gain ground and grooming them a bit could pay dividends, I think.

I like the idea of finding spots for Tulane and Rice being that they're already in our footprint. The consortium would benefit from that as well. If you threw Vanderbilt and maybe one more private together in some sort of arrangement where they didn't participate as football members then it might make sense.

The privates could act as independents in football. To help them fill their schedules out, the conference could promise them 4 games a season...2 home and 2 away. They could all play each other and that's 7 total. They've only got 5 more dates to fill which isn't that different being they have to fill 4 non-conference games right now. They could use those spots traveling around the country to play some similar institutions...or other independents. They could probably get Notre Dame, BYU, and Army on a regular basis. That alone would help with getting on national TV.

For Tulane and Rice, that's an upgrade especially if it comes with a little more money. For Vanderbilt, it's a downgrade if it costs them a full share of the TV contract. I could see them going for it though if they didn't have to spend as much on football. Coaching salaries, facilities, and other expenses could make a competitive football program untenable for them in the future...

I wonder if the "Magnolia League" idea could be resurrected? Toss in Wake Forest, Duke and possibly Miami (maybe even one or more of Pitt, Syracuse and BC) from the ACC and you've got yourself a decent private school conference. You might be able to draw Baylor and TCU from the Big XII as well.

The thing about the Magnolia League idea is they wouldn't generate a lot of money all to themselves.

It would help some of the Power leagues manage better as many of the privates don't really bring large fan bases, but there would be sacrifices. I think to encourage some of these schools to abandon their current arrangement, they'd still have to be connected to a Power conference. Even then, I'm not sure the money would work.

Some of these schools do have value in some respects, but they just don't bring a lot of brand power in football and that makes most of the money.

I'm not sure if the quasi-independence move would save them while also adding something of value to a Power league. Just a thought, I guess.

No. You are correct. I just tossed out a version for Mark. The Magnolia League won't happen because Duke basketball is more valuable than what the Magnolia League basketball would be. If the SEC was truly interested in the possibility of having Vandy go partial then why not try to add a Duke to go with them? That's the whole advantage of partial membership. You gain content value in a non football sport without having to split football revenue.

Here's the deal on revenue splits. You don't give quarter shares. You give full shares for basketball and baseball and pay them for their 4 or 5 conference games. That's it. It's why a good accountant is all you need to make this possible. If one of their games in football is national you give them 1/2 share of 1 T1 game. You do the same for tiers 2 and 3. If you have a school like a Vandy who wins a baseball title now and then then it is worth it. If you have a Duke who can win a natty in hoops then it's worth it. I'm not sure that Wake would be worth it?

(07-08-2019 05:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-08-2019 05:09 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(07-08-2019 03:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-08-2019 01:32 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Personally, I think USF is a good option in the future. I wouldn't even mind adding them sooner than later if a spot opened up. Helping them gain ground and grooming them a bit could pay dividends, I think.

I like the idea of finding spots for Tulane and Rice being that they're already in our footprint. The consortium would benefit from that as well. If you threw Vanderbilt and maybe one more private together in some sort of arrangement where they didn't participate as football members then it might make sense.

The privates could act as independents in football. To help them fill their schedules out, the conference could promise them 4 games a season...2 home and 2 away. They could all play each other and that's 7 total. They've only got 5 more dates to fill which isn't that different being they have to fill 4 non-conference games right now. They could use those spots traveling around the country to play some similar institutions...or other independents. They could probably get Notre Dame, BYU, and Army on a regular basis. That alone would help with getting on national TV.

For Tulane and Rice, that's an upgrade especially if it comes with a little more money. For Vanderbilt, it's a downgrade if it costs them a full share of the TV contract. I could see them going for it though if they didn't have to spend as much on football. Coaching salaries, facilities, and other expenses could make a competitive football program untenable for them in the future...

I wonder if the "Magnolia League" idea could be resurrected? Toss in Wake Forest, Duke and possibly Miami (maybe even one or more of Pitt, Syracuse and BC) from the ACC and you've got yourself a decent private school conference. You might be able to draw Baylor and TCU from the Big XII as well.

The thing about the Magnolia League idea is they wouldn't generate a lot of money all to themselves.

It would help some of the Power leagues manage better as many of the privates don't really bring large fan bases, but there would be sacrifices. I think to encourage some of these schools to abandon their current arrangement, they'd still have to be connected to a Power conference. Even then, I'm not sure the money would work.

Some of these schools do have value in some respects, but they just don't bring a lot of brand power in football and that makes most of the money.

I'm not sure if the quasi-independence move would save them while also adding something of value to a Power league. Just a thought, I guess.

No. You are correct. I just tossed out a version for Mark. The Magnolia League won't happen because Duke basketball is more valuable than what the Magnolia League basketball would be. If the SEC was truly interested in the possibility of having Vandy go partial then why not try to add a Duke to go with them? That's the whole advantage of partial membership. You gain content value in a non football sport without having to split football revenue.

Here's the deal on revenue splits. You don't give quarter shares. You give full shares for basketball and baseball and pay them for their 4 or 5 conference games. That's it. It's why a good accountant is all you need to make this possible. If one of their games in football is national you give them 1/2 share of 1 T1 game. You do the same for tiers 2 and 3. If you have a school like a Vandy who wins a baseball title now and then then it is worth it. If you have a Duke who can win a natty in hoops then it's worth it. I'm not sure that Wake would be worth it?

An interesting thought on Duke.

What if we pitched something like this?

Let's say the ACC is having more trouble in the not too distant future. The economics are not working with an ACC Network. As ESPN focuses more and more on streaming then they agree to an arrangement that allows more content in that sphere as opposed to an endless number of linear feeds.

The SEC pitches a plan that involves significant movement:

Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, and Virginia Tech are added as full members. Duke is given a non-football membership and Vanderbilt agrees to the same arrangement.

The privates don't drop football, and so we agree to play 4 games annually against each school...2 home and 2 away. They play as independents and we do as you suggest by paying them on a per game basis.

I count 17 all-privates in FBS:

11 are in P5 conferences:

Sou. Cal, Stanford, TCU, Baylor, Northwestern, Syracuse, B.C., Duke, Wake Forest, Miami, and Vanderbilt.

Independent: Notre Dame; BYU (for some ooc P5 counting)

G5: SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, and Rice.

I haven't counted FCS privates (fb) such as Furman, Fordham, Villanova, Ivy League, etc. Anybody want to name them all off the top of your head? Some are athletic scholarship providers for fb, others are not.

Some of the private schools have generous boosters. Since they are not forced to render publicly their financial endowments and expenditures, there is this barrier in determining who is actually in the black somewhat and who is operating in the deep red.

I've heard schools such as B.C. and Tulsa are spending significantly more than they are taking in, but I don't know the details per each.

Just guessing, I would say about half of them are currently operating within a relative safe zone, financially. Perhaps that is a bit optimistic.