(07-07-2019 12:12 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  If the MAC does consider expanding to 14, and I believe Dr. Steinbrecher and the MAC Presidents have not ruled it out, it will be either two football affiliates, namely UConn and UMass (or Army West Point); or two full members, namely Marshall and JMU.

The MAC will not add one of each. ...

Quite. One full member and one affiliate is too likely to leave the MAC once again looking for a balancing school, which has not had brilliant results in the past.

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(07-07-2019 06:41 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-06-2019 03:11 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  ... I'm failing to see how much better than us you are.

You read Kit-Kat's posts over a period of time, you'll every once in a while encounter facts that are not visible to anyone else. But IIRC, the new bowl cycle has the MAC as primaries in the Detroit Bowl with the Big Ten (rather than as secondaries that filled in more often than not). While that may not pull the MAC ahead of the CUSA in that kind of comparison of lineups, it seems likely to move things closer to parity.

Then "the MAC bowl lineup moves closer to parity with the CUSA bowl lineup" turning into "the MAC now has better bowls than CUSA" would be the kind of "fact inflation" which is not surprising from Kit-Kat.

Also, THUNDERStruck73, notice how the confident and unqualified claim that the MAC has a better bowl lineup than CUSA starts to accumulate qualifications and hedging when pressed:

(07-07-2019 09:41 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  I believe the MAC has a better lineup. ... Therefore I'd say the MAC is slightly ahead of CUSA in bowls at least based on the info we know at this date.

... which undermines the notion that the MAC's quite obviously superior bowl lineup is going to be enough to help entice Marshall back.

(07-07-2019 12:12 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  If the MAC does consider expanding to 14, and I believe Dr. Steinbrecher and the MAC Presidents have not ruled it out, it will be either two football affiliates, namely UConn and UMass (or Army West Point); or two full members, namely Marshall and JMU.

The MAC will not add one of each.

This feels right to me.

(07-07-2019 03:25 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Indeed. IMHO, it would be great to get Marshall back in the MAC along with JMU. The two schools would become great rivals and this would also get the MAC into the DC media market.

Eh. That's a bit like associating Bowling Green with the Cleveland market. James Madison is 130 miles away. Sure, it happens to be a Virginia state university. But there are others, and some are closer.

Obviously the MAC doesn't have CFP bowl for its champion or anything close over CUSA's bowls but in the G5's nitpicking world better ties are better ties.

I still don't know if Marshall would be interested in reconsidering the MAC now that CUSA has fallen below the MAC in TV and bowls. With the exit fees involved leaving CUSA they might not see enough difference.

Also I don't know about if enough votes are there within the MAC to add Marshall. I do know JMU had the votes before to be added as a 14th. My guess is they would be more likely to join.

As to this idea both schools need to be all sport or both FB only I don't see any grounds for thinking that way. The expansion would have the primary purpose of finding a home for UConn FB if it were to happen. After that the possibilities are open. I mentioned having both UConn and Nova in FB with basketball games helping the MAC the most.

(07-08-2019 09:01 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  I still don't know if Marshall would be interested in reconsidering the MAC now that CUSA has fallen below the MAC in TV and bowls with the exit fees involved leaving CUSA they might not see enough difference.

It seems to me the argument for the MAC is Conference USA isn't any better, and the travel in that conference is more arduous. This is why Herald-Dispatch columnist Chuck Landon has raised the question of whether Marshall should go back to the MAC.

On the other hand, Marshall fans seem to prefer playing Southern schools. Perhaps the added expense of sticking it out in Conference USA is worth it for them.

I doubt any expansion by the MAC is going to happen but this would be my full ranking.

1) UConn/Army. Gives the MAC a service academy to match the AAC.
2) UConn/Nova. Makes a MAC/BE rivalry for UConn. Large PA market.
3) UConn/Marshall. Great on fans and travel. CUSA exit fees?
4) UConn/JMU. Virginia is a big state. JMU has a big budget.
5) UConn/ODU. What about ODU as FB only with BB in A10?
6) UConn/Delaware. Not as ready as JMU but good PA-NJ area location.

I don't have UMass even in my Top 6 because two underperforming New England FB programs to me is too many.

I see Marshall, JMU and ODU campaigning hard for the AAC. If they can't get into the AAC in my opinion the MAC is the next best thing. What if the AAC takes ODU and leaves Marshall hanging? Marshall would be more inclined to join the MAC probably or it could open a slot for James Madison to CUSA.

Then if ODU and JMU find other homes where does it leave Delaware's situation in the CAA? Is the writing on the wall at that point for UD? Delaware has much better FB fans than UMass.

(07-08-2019 09:42 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  I doubt any expansion by the MAC is going to happen but this would be my full ranking.

1) UConn/Army. Gives the MAC a service academy to match the AAC.
2) UConn/Nova. Makes a MAC/BE rivalry for UConn. Large PA market.
3) UConn/Marshall. Great on fans and travel. CUSA exit fees?
4) UConn/JMU. Virginia is a big state. JMU has a big budget.
5) UConn/ODU. What about ODU as FB only with BB in A10?
6) UConn/Delaware. Not as ready as JMU but good PA-NJ area location.

I don't have UMass even in my Top 6 because two underperforming New England FB programs to me is too many.

I see Marshall, JMU and ODU campaigning hard for the AAC. If they can't get into the AAC in my opinion the MAC is the next best thing. What if the AAC takes ODU and leaves Marshall hanging? Marshall would be more inclined to join the MAC probably or it could open a slot for James Madison to CUSA.

Then if ODU and JMU find other homes where does it leave Delaware's situation in the CAA? Is the writing on the wall at that point for UD? Delaware has much better FB fans than UMass.

I favor say UConn + one more (e.g., UMass, etc.) in a scheduling alliance of say each of two teams (listed above) playing a total of 4 OOC games with MAC teams.

My question is about Villanova. They are an interesting school.

Does anyone think they have FBS interest?

Would we schedule them if they remain FCS? (they would replace lower rated FCS teams MAC schools have been scheduling).

It would be nice to get hoop games with UConn and Nova.

The MAC is doing well, but anything which gives us a real boost (e.g., basketball games with schools like UConn and Nova) is most welcome.

(07-07-2019 10:24 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-07-2019 12:12 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  If the MAC does consider expanding to 14, and I believe Dr. Steinbrecher and the MAC Presidents have not ruled it out, it will be either two football affiliates, namely UConn and UMass (or Army West Point); or two full members, namely Marshall and JMU.

The MAC will not add one of each. ...

Quite. One full member and one affiliate is too likely to leave the MAC once again looking for a balancing school, which has not had brilliant results in the past.

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(07-07-2019 06:41 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-06-2019 03:11 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  ... I'm failing to see how much better than us you are.

You read Kit-Kat's posts over a period of time, you'll every once in a while encounter facts that are not visible to anyone else. But IIRC, the new bowl cycle has the MAC as primaries in the Detroit Bowl with the Big Ten (rather than as secondaries that filled in more often than not). While that may not pull the MAC ahead of the CUSA in that kind of comparison of lineups, it seems likely to move things closer to parity.

Then "the MAC bowl lineup moves closer to parity with the CUSA bowl lineup" turning into "the MAC now has better bowls than CUSA" would be the kind of "fact inflation" which is not surprising from Kit-Kat.

Also, THUNDERStruck73, notice how the confident and unqualified claim that the MAC has a better bowl lineup than CUSA starts to accumulate qualifications and hedging when pressed:

(07-07-2019 09:41 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  I believe the MAC has a better lineup. ... Therefore I'd say the MAC is slightly ahead of CUSA in bowls at least based on the info we know at this date.

... which undermines the notion that the MAC's quite obviously superior bowl lineup is going to be enough to help entice Marshall back.

Yes, I did notice that. Fascinating.

As much as I would love it to happen, we aren’t getting into the AAC. I really hope I'm wrong but we don't fit the model:

Enrollment too small
Budget too small
Not as easily accessible as other areas

(07-08-2019 09:01 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Obviously the MAC doesn't have CFP bowl for its champion or anything close over CUSA's bowls but in the G5's nitpicking world better ties are better ties.

I still don't know if Marshall would be interested in reconsidering the MAC now that CUSA has fallen below the MAC in TV and bowls. With the exit fees involved leaving CUSA they might not see enough difference.

Also I don't know about if enough votes are there within the MAC to add Marshall. I do know JMU had the votes before to be added as a 14th. My guess is they would be more likely to join.

As to this idea both schools need to be all sport or both FB only I don't see any grounds for thinking that way. The expansion would have the primary purpose of finding a home for UConn FB if it were to happen. After that the possibilities are open. I mentioned having both UConn and Nova in FB with basketball games helping the MAC the most.

Why would the MAC care if UConn FB has a home?

I could see the MAC replacing the AAC in the new Fenway Bowl (vs ACC) if the MAC were to add UMass/UCONN FB-only or form a scheduling agreement with bowl tie-ins.

(07-08-2019 11:41 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(07-08-2019 09:01 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Obviously the MAC doesn't have CFP bowl for its champion or anything close over CUSA's bowls but in the G5's nitpicking world better ties are better ties.

I still don't know if Marshall would be interested in reconsidering the MAC now that CUSA has fallen below the MAC in TV and bowls. With the exit fees involved leaving CUSA they might not see enough difference.

Also I don't know about if enough votes are there within the MAC to add Marshall. I do know JMU had the votes before to be added as a 14th. My guess is they would be more likely to join.

As to this idea both schools need to be all sport or both FB only I don't see any grounds for thinking that way. The expansion would have the primary purpose of finding a home for UConn FB if it were to happen. After that the possibilities are open. I mentioned having both UConn and Nova in FB with basketball games helping the MAC the most.

Why would the MAC care if UConn FB has a home?

The only reason I can think is to renew the TV deal for more $$$

If everyone will make 1 million more I think its worth it.

(07-08-2019 12:16 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  I could see the MAC replacing the AAC in the new Fenway Bowl (vs ACC) if the MAC were to add UMass/UCONN FB-only or form a scheduling agreement with bowl tie-ins.

Good point about the Fenway Bowl.

I don't think that would be in play though until 2026 if UConn was say added in 2022 because of the bowl cycles.

(07-08-2019 11:41 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(07-08-2019 09:01 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Obviously the MAC doesn't have CFP bowl for its champion or anything close over CUSA's bowls but in the G5's nitpicking world better ties are better ties.

I still don't know if Marshall would be interested in reconsidering the MAC now that CUSA has fallen below the MAC in TV and bowls. With the exit fees involved leaving CUSA they might not see enough difference.

Also I don't know about if enough votes are there within the MAC to add Marshall. I do know JMU had the votes before to be added as a 14th. My guess is they would be more likely to join.

As to this idea both schools need to be all sport or both FB only I don't see any grounds for thinking that way. The expansion would have the primary purpose of finding a home for UConn FB if it were to happen. After that the possibilities are open. I mentioned having both UConn and Nova in FB with basketball games helping the MAC the most.

Why would the MAC care if UConn FB has a home?

Because people in the midwest are nice.

(07-08-2019 12:49 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(07-08-2019 11:41 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(07-08-2019 09:01 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Obviously the MAC doesn't have CFP bowl for its champion or anything close over CUSA's bowls but in the G5's nitpicking world better ties are better ties.

I still don't know if Marshall would be interested in reconsidering the MAC now that CUSA has fallen below the MAC in TV and bowls. With the exit fees involved leaving CUSA they might not see enough difference.

Also I don't know about if enough votes are there within the MAC to add Marshall. I do know JMU had the votes before to be added as a 14th. My guess is they would be more likely to join.

As to this idea both schools need to be all sport or both FB only I don't see any grounds for thinking that way. The expansion would have the primary purpose of finding a home for UConn FB if it were to happen. After that the possibilities are open. I mentioned having both UConn and Nova in FB with basketball games helping the MAC the most.

Why would the MAC care if UConn FB has a home?

The only reason I can think is to renew the TV deal for more $$$

If everyone will make 1 million more I think its worth it.

Not really because that would mean the MAC would have to split the CFP money with another 1-2 teams. Not to mention the extra travel costs.

kreed5120, two things. First read the back and forth with BruceMcF and myself as almost no CFP or media money in this thread, especially pages 4-6.

Secondly, are you going to make the Zip game in Amherst?

(07-08-2019 02:28 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  kreed5120, two things. First read the back and forth with BruceMcF and myself as almost no CFP or media money in this thread, especially pages 4-6.

Secondly, are you going to make the Zip game in Amherst?

If the numbers worked out financially to benefit the 12 current MAC schools then I wouldn't be against it. Overall though it seems being independent isn't as bad as it was 4-5 years ago as now there seems to be more of them which makes scheduling easier compared to years past.

No, I'll be in upstate New York that weekend for a wedding.

As a Marshall fan I would actually prefer to go back to the MAC as long as we didn't have to play any home games on Tues/Weds. I'm fine with 1-2 away games in the middle of the week, but absolutely no to any home games during middle of the week.

I honestly think the majority of our fan base feels this way too.

I miss our games against Ohio, Toledo, Miami, and Western Michigan.

(07-08-2019 09:57 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  As a Marshall fan I would actually prefer to go back to the MAC as long as we didn't have to play any home games on Tues/Weds. I'm fine with 1-2 away games in the middle of the week, but absolutely no to any home games during middle of the week.

I honestly think the majority of our fan base feels this way too.

I miss our games against Ohio, Toledo, Miami, and Western Michigan.

If you don't MACtion then you don't cut it. Marshall doesn't get special mountainside treatment just because no one has cbssn or ESPNU there.

(07-08-2019 01:33 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Not really because that would mean the MAC would have to split the CFP money with another 1-2 teams. Not to mention the extra travel costs.

No, there is no CFP rule that says a Go5 conference has to share it's CFP money with FB-only associate members. That's up to the affiliation agreement.

It was a different thing when the MAC was inviting UMass up ... the MAC had an imbalanced divisional alignment it was making efforts to balance. "Take it or leave it" weren't the alternatives ... "UMass or keep looking for some other FCS school to invite up" were the alternatives. So revenue sharing and grace period if Temple left were more generous than they would have to be in a new deal.

I reckon IF UConn comes to the MAC, they should indeed say, "whether you want a scheduling agreement or you want to be FB-only, find a partner that fits into the East Division and you have to make a package offer that 2/3+ of the MAC Presidents like." IOW, not even "take it or leave" ... but rather, "convince us". ...

... and if UConn comes with a deal that involves revenue sharing, stop them right there. "Nope, you eat what you kill ... if ESPN offers to top up the media deal for the new content, you can get money from the increment, if you win the Access Bowl spot, you can get the regular member school's share of that, if the MAC earns more Academic Performance money, you get the funds you attract."

Getting UMass at Miami's home ice would be nice. Kent getting UConn at the MAC would be nice. If it does any modest good toward keeping the flow of students from the Northeast into Great Lakes schools going, that would be good. So it is conceivable that UConn might put forward a deal that earns agreement.

But it's not going to be any kind of big exciting home run kind of deal.

{I will note that the notion that there is some kind of media money jackpot lurking here is more than a little silly.}

UConn is not going to join the MAC without a share in the CFP money.

That is the whole reason for wanting a FB conference over independence.

The MAC isn't going to add UConn without ESPN contributing a raise on the current TV deal either.