(06-21-2019 05:21 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Trying to survive will be the WAC’s primary challenge, but shedding a member who clearly wanted to be back in a midwest/plains conference relieves them a significant burden.

But these are the problems of a conference now forever on the brink of extinction. UMKC was always a risk; the hype that Summit was done for overblown, and having them meant taking on their identity and logistical challenges.

Losing another D1 school hurts the WAC. Losing UMKC barely makes a difference. UMKC brings nothing when it comes to athletics. They don't bring a baseball team. The WAC has ten baseball teams. Their men's soccer program never had a winning season in the WAC. The WAC still has 11 men's soccer teams and usually gets two bids. The UMKC basketball team had one winning season in the WAC. Losing them drops the WAC to eight basketball schools in 2020-2021. That hurts, but losing UMKC does not. UMKC could not win in the WAC. Maybe they will have better luck in the Summit. I doubt it.

The Summit is not completely out of the woods yet. If Purdue University Fort Wayne ever gets an invite out, the Summit falls to five baseball teams and six men's soccer programs. If EIU needs to make cuts to athletics, men's soccer could go. I doubt they would cut football. If WIU needs to make cuts to athletics, men's soccer or baseball could go. I doubt football would be cut. The four Dakota schools do not provide men's soccer teams to the Summit and only two have baseball programs. The Dakota schools look a lot like the Big Sky schools. The Big Sky does not offer men's soccer or baseball.

Denver provides a very good men's soccer team to the Summit. I think Denver would leave, but the $1 million exit fee they would owe the Summit prevents that. Denver belongs in a western conference. The WAC does not have an exit fee, so it is easy for UMKC to leave. If UMKC had to pay a $1 million exit fee, I think they would be staying. Once they get into the Summit, they are not leaving.

(06-21-2019 04:56 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(06-21-2019 05:21 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Trying to survive will be the WAC’s primary challenge, but shedding a member who clearly wanted to be back in a midwest/plains conference relieves them a significant burden.

But these are the problems of a conference now forever on the brink of extinction. UMKC was always a risk; the hype that Summit was done for overblown, and having them meant taking on their identity and logistical challenges.

Losing another D1 school hurts the WAC. Losing UMKC barely makes a difference. UMKC brings nothing when it comes to athletics. They don't bring a baseball team. The WAC has ten baseball teams. Their men's soccer program never had a winning season in the WAC. The WAC still has 11 men's soccer teams and usually gets two bids. The UMKC basketball team had one winning season in the WAC. Losing them drops the WAC to eight basketball schools in 2020-2021. That hurts, but losing UMKC does not. UMKC could not win in the WAC. Maybe they will have better luck in the Summit. I doubt it.

The Summit is not completely out of the woods yet. If Purdue University Fort Wayne ever gets an invite out, the Summit falls to five baseball teams and six men's soccer programs. If EIU needs to make cuts to athletics, men's soccer could go. I doubt they would cut football. If WIU needs to make cuts to athletics, men's soccer or baseball could go. I doubt football would be cut. The four Dakota schools do not provide men's soccer teams to the Summit and only two have baseball programs. The Dakota schools look a lot like the Big Sky schools. The Big Sky does not offer men's soccer or baseball.

Denver provides a very good men's soccer team to the Summit. I think Denver would leave, but the $1 million exit fee they would owe the Summit prevents that. Denver belongs in a western conference. The WAC does not have an exit fee, so it is easy for UMKC to leave. If UMKC had to pay a $1 million exit fee, I think they would be staying. Once they get into the Summit, they are not leaving.

That is a lot of if's. Most likely they just work a deal to get a school like Northern Colorado to shift it's baseball from the WAC to the Summit. Conferences usually help each other out on these non-revenue sports because schools all see their long term survival in these specific sports dependent upon keeping conferences afloat.

The NCAA wont crack down on the Summit if they feel a sport short. They would simply give them 2 years grace then probably a waiver for as much as 5 years. The last thing the NCAA wants to do is destabilize conferences over some edge case of membership numbers in a non-revenue sport.

Another option is to sponsor football, as they have 5 schools with the sport and invite YSU or even Dixie State as a 6th.

The other option is for the Summit to make a deal with the Hockey Conference many of their schools are in to have it count as an autonomous league (keeps current name) under the Summit office for sports counting.

I do not see any danger for the Summit, and plenty of alternatives to get around the rules if a waiver is not quickly forthcoming.

Headcanons aside, I had a feeling this would happen, and it's good for the Summit. It helps bridge the gap to Tulsa, gives the Summit another men's soccer team, and it's not another Dakota school. Even if UMKC's a bad program, they're a welcome addition and never should have left to begin with.

(06-21-2019 04:10 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  No, the Great Northern Conference in NoDak's little brain is the Summit League booting everyone but NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, Denver, and Omaha. They add Montana, Montana State, Idaho and the flavor of the month from the Big Sky.

Which, for the record, would be a really fun conference. I just don't think the actual decisionmakers at any of the schools are trying to make it happen.

(06-21-2019 06:56 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(06-21-2019 04:10 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  No, the Great Northern Conference in NoDak's little brain is the Summit League booting everyone but NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, Denver, and Omaha. They add Montana, Montana State, Idaho and the flavor of the month from the Big Sky.

Which, for the record, would be a really fun conference. I just don't think the actual decisionmakers at any of the schools are trying to make it happen.

If we were drawing from scratch, it could be feasible. Just not enough in it to make it worth the changes.

And, Montana etc are western oriented schools, with lots of alumni and recruits throughout the west. Not so much in the Dakotas.

(06-21-2019 05:35 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(06-21-2019 04:56 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(06-21-2019 05:21 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Trying to survive will be the WAC’s primary challenge, but shedding a member who clearly wanted to be back in a midwest/plains conference relieves them a significant burden.

But these are the problems of a conference now forever on the brink of extinction. UMKC was always a risk; the hype that Summit was done for overblown, and having them meant taking on their identity and logistical challenges.

Losing another D1 school hurts the WAC. Losing UMKC barely makes a difference. UMKC brings nothing when it comes to athletics. They don't bring a baseball team. The WAC has ten baseball teams. Their men's soccer program never had a winning season in the WAC. The WAC still has 11 men's soccer teams and usually gets two bids. The UMKC basketball team had one winning season in the WAC. Losing them drops the WAC to eight basketball schools in 2020-2021. That hurts, but losing UMKC does not. UMKC could not win in the WAC. Maybe they will have better luck in the Summit. I doubt it.

The Summit is not completely out of the woods yet. If Purdue University Fort Wayne ever gets an invite out, the Summit falls to five baseball teams and six men's soccer programs. If EIU needs to make cuts to athletics, men's soccer could go. I doubt they would cut football. If WIU needs to make cuts to athletics, men's soccer or baseball could go. I doubt football would be cut. The four Dakota schools do not provide men's soccer teams to the Summit and only two have baseball programs. The Dakota schools look a lot like the Big Sky schools. The Big Sky does not offer men's soccer or baseball.

Denver provides a very good men's soccer team to the Summit. I think Denver would leave, but the $1 million exit fee they would owe the Summit prevents that. Denver belongs in a western conference. The WAC does not have an exit fee, so it is easy for UMKC to leave. If UMKC had to pay a $1 million exit fee, I think they would be staying. Once they get into the Summit, they are not leaving.

That is a lot of if's. Most likely they just work a deal to get a school like Northern Colorado to shift it's baseball from the WAC to the Summit. Conferences usually help each other out on these non-revenue sports because schools all see their long term survival in these specific sports dependent upon keeping conferences afloat.

The NCAA wont crack down on the Summit if they feel a sport short. They would simply give them 2 years grace then probably a waiver for as much as 5 years. The last thing the NCAA wants to do is destabilize conferences over some edge case of membership numbers in a non-revenue sport.

Another option is to sponsor football, as they have 5 schools with the sport and invite YSU or even Dixie State as a 6th.

The other option is for the Summit to make a deal with the Hockey Conference many of their schools are in to have it count as an autonomous league (keeps current name) under the Summit office for sports counting.

I do not see any danger for the Summit, and plenty of alternatives to get around the rules if a waiver is not quickly forthcoming.

Why would Northern Colorado leave WAC baseball for the Summit? That makes no sense. Their entire roster is from the west. The WAC is a better baseball conference, with 18 players drafted into the MLB draft in 2019. The Summit had three players selected in the 2019 MLB draft. The WAC gave them a home for baseball when they were in the Great West, shortly after moving up from D2. Why would they want to do the Summit a favor?

The WAC and the Summit can both play these scenarios about football or in the case of the Summit, hockey. They both should survive, but you can easily put together scenarios where they both collapse. The Summit has always been barely qualifying for the past few years in both baseball and men's soccer. The Summit may be better off being like the Big Sky, a football and basketball conference. We will see what happens.

(06-20-2019 08:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Alas, the Kangaroos see the error of their ways and return to a Midwestern conference.

Summitt becoming a western conference. 8 of 10 Kansas City or west. WIU struggling with student population. Plus Purdue-Ft. Wayne.

(06-21-2019 07:03 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  Why would Northern Colorado leave WAC baseball for the Summit? That makes no sense. Their entire roster is from the west. The WAC is a better baseball conference, with 18 players drafted into the MLB draft in 2019. The Summit had three players selected in the 2019 MLB draft. The WAC gave them a home for baseball when they were in the Great West, shortly after moving up from D2. Why would they want to do the Summit a favor?

The only somewhat rational reason is to join their old NCC buddies, which is a really stupid one, even if it's somewhat rational. UNCo was a weird fit for the NCC anyway.

Quote:The WAC and the Summit can both play these scenarios about football or in the case of the Summit, hockey. They both should survive, but you can easily put together scenarios where they both collapse. The Summit has always been barely qualifying for the past few years in both baseball and men's soccer. The Summit may be better off being like the Big Sky, a football and basketball conference. We will see what happens.

There's absolutely no way the Summit would sponsor hockey. The only way that happens is if UMD and SCSU decide to drop football and go D1, and even then, I highly doubt UND would willingly take their pet project and hand control over to the Sanford/Jackrabbit cartel.

Would Azusa Pacific be interested in the WAC?
They could be football indy like Dixie St.

(06-20-2019 11:46 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Official press release from the Summit League.

http://www.thesummitleague.org/general/2...0620sts1tx

It gives the Summit an even 10 teams.

The plan for the Horizon gobbling the Summit obviously did not take off.

There is no point when both leagues can split an autobid 10 ways.

(06-21-2019 04:10 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(06-21-2019 02:36 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  So if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly is this the New Great Northern/Western conference:

NMSU (FBS Indy)
Dixie State (FCS Indy)
UTRGV (no team)
Lamar (Southland)
Sam Houston St (Southland)
UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD (MVFC)

No, the Great Northern Conference in NoDak's little brain is the Summit League booting everyone but NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, Denver, and Omaha. They add Montana, Montana State, Idaho and the flavor of the month from the Big Sky.

The WAC adds Lamar, Sam Houston State etc along with the California FCS schools to make a FBS league. Big Sky picks up Dixie State and other WAC schools.

It's all his fantasy to get North Dakota, NDSU, SDSU, South Dakota, Montana and Montana State together.

Ahhh, thank you.

How long now before Chicago State pulls the plug on WAC membership?

(06-21-2019 07:42 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  How long now before Chicago State pulls the plug

That's a better question. They're lucky to be where they are.

(06-21-2019 07:09 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-20-2019 08:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Alas, the Kangaroos see the error of their ways and return to a Midwestern conference.

Summitt becoming a western conference. 8 of 10 Kansas City or west. WIU struggling with student population. Plus Purdue-Ft. Wayne.

That isn’t west. Summit has 1 western member.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_United_States

9/10 are midwest.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midweste...ted_States

They recently announced all basketball games will be played at their rec center 1500 seat capacity saving rent cost.
Now travel cost will go down the new A.D. is pretty active.
A 1.5 million dollar upgrading their rec center has been announced mostly branding locker upgrade kinda stuff.
Looks like the plan is to save money and invest in being competitive.
If I ran a similar program I would go cheap as possible in non revenue.
Invest the most of my limited resources in basketball build a fan base.

The Great Northern thing would be nice basically the best supported schools in both conferences.

The WAC might be a better home for SUU and NAU closer schools .

Too many moving parts NAU is a really underrated school great potential .

(06-21-2019 08:02 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  The WAC might be a better home for SUU and NAU closer schools .

Too many moving parts NAU is a really underrated school great potential .

Yes that is true and the WAC is a better basketball conference than the Big Sky. Problem is, Southern Utah and NAU play football and the Big Sky is stable. Unless they drop football, kind of hard to see them joining the WAC.

(06-21-2019 07:03 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  Why would Northern Colorado leave WAC baseball for the Summit? That makes no sense. Their entire roster is from the west. The WAC is a better baseball conference, with 18 players drafted into the MLB draft in 2019. The Summit had three players selected in the 2019 MLB draft. The WAC gave them a home for baseball when they were in the Great West, shortly after moving up from D2. Why would they want to do the Summit a favor?

The WAC and the Summit can both play these scenarios about football or in the case of the Summit, hockey. They both should survive, but you can easily put together scenarios where they both collapse. The Summit has always been barely qualifying for the past few years in both baseball and men's soccer. The Summit may be better off being like the Big Sky, a football and basketball conference. We will see what happens.

(Significant) Cash considerations, like say $100K a year travel subsidy for joining. But I agree with you, all Colorado schools way prefer California over the plains. But the WAC might be happy, if Chicago State exits, which I think is more a question of when than if (they just can't stop shrinking, even with competent leadership finally and state funding -but it is based on head count which is shrinking; they may have shrunk too much to recover)

Collapse of either conference is extremely remote, mostly because the NCAA has ZERO interest in orphaning schools. They would rewrite the rules for a loophole like WAC football (dormant) or give a perpetual waiver rather than break up a conference over being 1 school short in some non-revenue sport.

You are not normally one to give a doom scenario, so I'm a bit surprised.

(06-21-2019 07:32 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The plan for the Horizon gobbling the Summit obviously did not take off.

My theory on why the Summit became the "Dakota Conference" or the "Interstate 29 Conference" is that the Horizon poached them nearly to death. The Summit moved west to get away from the Horizon. (Of course the Horizon says, "Hey, we were being poached by the A10 and the MVC !") 8 of 10 current Horizon members were in the Summit and 2 former members were. The Horizon is now more of a Great Lakes conference. And the Summit is now more a Northern Plains conference.

(06-21-2019 09:28 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(06-21-2019 08:02 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  The WAC might be a better home for SUU and NAU closer schools .

Too many moving parts NAU is a really underrated school great potential .

Yes that is true and the WAC is a better basketball conference than the Big Sky. Problem is, Southern Utah and NAU play football and the Big Sky is stable. Unless they drop football, kind of hard to see them joining the WAC.

NAU isn't leaving, or thinking of leaving the BSC. They've been in the BSC since 1970, and are a terrible sports fit for the WAC (no baseball, no MSoc). SUU is similar in sports fit, they even took it a step further and dropped baseball shortly after joining the BSC.

No one is leaving the BSC for the WAC, just stop it with this nonsense.

(06-21-2019 04:56 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(06-21-2019 05:21 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Trying to survive will be the WAC’s primary challenge, but shedding a member who clearly wanted to be back in a midwest/plains conference relieves them a significant burden.

But these are the problems of a conference now forever on the brink of extinction. UMKC was always a risk; the hype that Summit was done for overblown, and having them meant taking on their identity and logistical challenges.

Losing another D1 school hurts the WAC. Losing UMKC barely makes a difference. UMKC brings nothing when it comes to athletics. They don't bring a baseball team. The WAC has ten baseball teams. Their men's soccer program never had a winning season in the WAC. The WAC still has 11 men's soccer teams and usually gets two bids. The UMKC basketball team had one winning season in the WAC. Losing them drops the WAC to eight basketball schools in 2020-2021. That hurts, but losing UMKC does not. UMKC could not win in the WAC. Maybe they will have better luck in the Summit. I doubt it.

The Summit is not completely out of the woods yet. If Purdue University Fort Wayne ever gets an invite out, the Summit falls to five baseball teams and six men's soccer programs. If EIU needs to make cuts to athletics, men's soccer could go. I doubt they would cut football. If WIU needs to make cuts to athletics, men's soccer or baseball could go. I doubt football would be cut. The four Dakota schools do not provide men's soccer teams to the Summit and only two have baseball programs. The Dakota schools look a lot like the Big Sky schools. The Big Sky does not offer men's soccer or baseball.

Denver provides a very good men's soccer team to the Summit. I think Denver would leave, but the $1 million exit fee they would owe the Summit prevents that. Denver belongs in a western conference. The WAC does not have an exit fee, so it is easy for UMKC to leave. If UMKC had to pay a $1 million exit fee, I think they would be staying. Once they get into the Summit, they are not leaving.

UMKC couldn't win in the Summit, which is part of the reason they left in the first place (they've also played a role in keeping the WAC alive).