From Chuck Carlton at the Dallas Morning News:

Quote:The public posturing and talk of - all together now - being "psychologically disadvantaged" may have actually done some good.

No really. While former Oklahoma President David Boren said a lot of things that put the Big 12 on edge, the aftermath might have been beneficial.

If nothing else, the Big 12 was forced to evaluate every issue instead of basking in prosperity or simply kicking the can down the road.

At times, it was embarrassing. At times, the Big 12 seemed like a powder keg.

"I think it's evolved," Commissioner Bob Bowlsby said. "People never disliked each other. They just had honest disagreements as to how things ought to fit together. We had a lot of challenging issues.

"We've resolved many of those issues. As a result, we're enjoying a period of prosperity."

They're fine for now with being the big 2 and little 8.

Well, actually... big 1, bigger than the rest 1 and little 8.

However, as TV contract expiration approaches, if some of the little 8 start getting whispers in their ear and the big ones start getting bigger than their britches... then the knives will start going into some backs.

Perfume on a pig!

"We've resolved many of those issues. As a result, we're enjoying a period of prosperity."

Has Bowlsby ever presented and elaborated on
details as to accomplishments attributed to his specific work?

Certain member schools have reached notable achievements that have not been uncommon for decades, but how much of that is Bowlsby's elbow grease?

The B12 got graced with a CCG with only 10 members. I suppose that counts.

Everyone who had the ability to leave on their own did so.

Everyone left is stuck in a political hostage situation with a heavy dose of Stockholm syndrome

But the truth remains:

If you went to each member and told them they had a one time free ticket to join any P4 conference of their choosing with zero strings attached, IE no political requirements, no waiting period for full shares or no little brother tagalong baggage holding them back, not a single member of that loveless marriage of convenience would choose to stay in it.

(06-09-2019 10:58 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Everyone who had the ability to leave on their own did so.

Everyone left is stuck in a political hostage situation with a heavy dose of Stockholm syndrome

But the truth remains:

If you went to each member and told them they had a one time free ticket to join any P4 conference of their choosing with zero strings attached, IE no political requirements, no waiting period for full shares or no little brother tagalong baggage holding them back, not a single member of that loveless marriage of convenience would choose to stay in it.

10thMountain, I am a fan of the way you articulate your point of view.

Below is an article from April, 2019. I don't recall if it has been referenced on this site prior. Maybe it is "Reckless Speculation" as the title indicates. However, there may be a bit of truth in that B12 schools seeking to eventually move to another P5 conference, would start scheduling ooc games with those may seek to have a future association.

Scroll down to the chart in the article that shows which other P5 conferences certain B12 schools have future fb games scheduled. Again, it may mean little as to future expansion. But schools doing such, could be looking to strengthen ties just in case opportunities arise.

https://www.blackandgoldbanneret.com/kni...-expansion

(06-09-2019 07:10 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  From Chuck Carlton at the Dallas Morning News:

Quote:The public posturing and talk of - all together now - being "psychologically disadvantaged" may have actually done some good.

No really. While former Oklahoma President David Boren said a lot of things that put the Big 12 on edge, the aftermath might have been beneficial.

If nothing else, the Big 12 was forced to evaluate every issue instead of basking in prosperity or simply kicking the can down the road.
The Big XII lost four flagship schools. Can't make that look good in any scenario. I agree with Jr. Perfume on a pig.
At times, it was embarrassing. At times, the Big 12 seemed like a powder keg.

"I think it's evolved," Commissioner Bob Bowlsby said. "People never disliked each other. They just had honest disagreements as to how things ought to fit together. We had a lot of challenging issues.

"We've resolved many of those issues. As a result, we're enjoying a period of prosperity."

The Big XII lost four flagship universities to other conferences. There is no way to paint that a pretty picture. I agree with Jr. Perfume on a pig.

It would be radical but I could see the Big 12 being the conference for "little brothers" and making a nice niche for itself.

Lots of solid runner up schools: Colorado St/SDSU come to mind, but also Boise/BYU/UNLV, or if the conference goes east USF and UCF.

I know FCS schools are a reach but Montana, the Dakota schools, or even someone like Missouri State could eventually fit in well.

The little 8 have plenty of solid options to expand with good schools. I just doubt the networks see it the same way.

(06-09-2019 02:37 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  It would be radical but I could see the Big 12 being the conference for "little brothers" and making a nice niche for itself.

Lots of solid runner up schools: Colorado St/SDSU come to mind, but also Boise/BYU/UNLV, or if the conference goes east USF and UCF.

I know FCS schools are a reach but Montana, the Dakota schools, or even someone like Missouri State could eventually fit in well.

The little 8 have plenty of solid options to expand with good schools. I just doubt the networks see it the same way.

Most of the Big 12 schools aren't bad athletic programs. The main problem is their lack of sizable markets. That makes them less valuable to TV networks.

I actually would like to see a scenario where most of those schools team up with a few schools from the Mountain West. That would be a decently competitive league. It just seems the top of the Big 12 has grown beyond what the Big 12 is. Texas, Oklahoma, and a couple of others belong somewhere else.

Something similar could be said about the ACC. A lot of their schools are underachievers despite some advantages that the average Big 12 school doesn't have. Siphon a few of those off as well...combine the remnants with the best of the American.

You could still have 5 leagues and provide a little more balance. My general opinion is that a few of the top level G5 schools deserve to compete at a higher level. If you separated those schools out then I think you have a reasonable line of demarcation for separating the upper schools into a new division.

Big 12 is a solid third in payouts, and that does not include individual Teir three money. I can see Texas and Oklahoma just keeping the status quo for the next round of TV contracts and being comfortable with that. Texas and Oklahoma make enough money to keep up with the Big Ten and SEC paychecks while the other members bring in enough to remain competitive and happy. I only see OU or UT jumping if they get an offer that they can’t refuse to move. OU and Texas would be smart to wait until the last minute to approve any new deal or offer to get the most out of it.

Tv is moving to streaming where one just as to pay for the right service provider to watch their team play. The big matches will still be on the CBS, FoX, ESPN, ABC and NBC’s of the world, but where viewers get access to those other games is all that is changing.

I also want to point out that they are using an accounting trick to appear more prosperous than they actually are.

Last year, they announced REVENUE (not profit) of 364.87 million and would distribute 36.5 million to the schools. Sounds fine at first right?

What about the conference’s share?

The SEC money is split 15 ways, not 14. All the other conferences work this way too with the conference getting a share to cover operating expenses.

The SEC openly factors this into the amount of distributions.

But the Big 12 isn’t. Is the conference NOT getting a share or operating at a loss in order to report more income?

My guess is they distribute it all to the teams to look good on paper but then have them refund 1/10th of it back to the conference

While it doesn’t seem like much, it’s enough to take them out of that third place they like to crow about and puts them competing with the ACC at the bottom of the revenue pile.

Perception is everything, much better to be “third behind the B1G and SEC” than “fighting the ACC. for lowest paid conference even with fewest members”

(06-10-2019 09:02 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I also want to point out that they are using an accounting trick to appear more prosperous than they actually are.

Last year, they announced REVENUE (not profit) of 364.87 million and would distribute 36.5 million to the schools. Sounds fine at first right?

What about the conference’s share?

The SEC money is split 15 ways, not 14. All the other conferences work this way too with the conference getting a share to cover operating expenses.

The SEC openly factors this into the amount of distributions.

But the Big 12 isn’t. Is the conference NOT getting a share or operating at a loss in order to report more income?

My guess is they distribute it all to the teams to look good on paper but then have them refund 1/10th of it back to the conference

While it doesn’t seem like much, it’s enough to take them out of that third place they like to crow about and puts them competing with the ACC at the bottom of the revenue pile.

Perception is everything, much better to be “third behind the B1G and SEC” than “fighting the ACC. for lowest paid conference even with fewest members”

I asked the Chris Lambert about this on his new forum, and he denies it. I recognize that the source may not be the most reliable, but what evidence is there of this "trick?"

(06-10-2019 09:02 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I also want to point out that they are using an accounting trick to appear more prosperous than they actually are.

Last year, they announced REVENUE (not profit) of 364.87 million and would distribute 36.5 million to the schools. Sounds fine at first right?

What about the conference’s share?

The SEC money is split 15 ways, not 14. All the other conferences work this way too with the conference getting a share to cover operating expenses.

The SEC openly factors this into the amount of distributions.

But the Big 12 isn’t. Is the conference NOT getting a share or operating at a loss in order to report more income?

My guess is they distribute it all to the teams to look good on paper but then have them refund 1/10th of it back to the conference

While it doesn’t seem like much, it’s enough to take them out of that third place they like to crow about and puts them competing with the ACC at the bottom of the revenue pile.

Perception is everything, much better to be “third behind the B1G and SEC” than “fighting the ACC. for lowest paid conference even with fewest members”

You're right that the math is off.

I guess we'd have to see the cash flow to know for certain what exactly they're doing.

(06-10-2019 10:53 AM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 09:02 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I also want to point out that they are using an accounting trick to appear more prosperous than they actually are.

Last year, they announced REVENUE (not profit) of 364.87 million and would distribute 36.5 million to the schools. Sounds fine at first right?

What about the conference’s share?

The SEC money is split 15 ways, not 14. All the other conferences work this way too with the conference getting a share to cover operating expenses.

The SEC openly factors this into the amount of distributions.

But the Big 12 isn’t. Is the conference NOT getting a share or operating at a loss in order to report more income?

My guess is they distribute it all to the teams to look good on paper but then have them refund 1/10th of it back to the conference

While it doesn’t seem like much, it’s enough to take them out of that third place they like to crow about and puts them competing with the ACC at the bottom of the revenue pile.

Perception is everything, much better to be “third behind the B1G and SEC” than “fighting the ACC. for lowest paid conference even with fewest members”

I asked the Chris Lambert about this on his new forum, and he denies it. I recognize that the source may not be the most reliable, but what evidence is there of this "trick?"

I’m sure he does, but then ask him: if all the revenue is split 10 ways to the schools then how does the conference get it’s share? I’d be interested in his answer

It's a PR tactic, particularly with numbers and dollar lists.

Basically, what the B12 may be doing is using uncut, gross distribution figures, then each school pays back in their "dues" to the conference office

Wonder if the University of Oklahoma advanced the idea? They do have experience with reporting funny numbers.

Depending on what or who you are reading, financial intake rankings and distributions can somewhat vary. BIG and SEC figures still remain above the rest. Even for those two, the figures can change for a designated period depending on who is reporting. For the most part, it may not be deliberate deception, but a reflection of what is included, or not included, in the self-reporting process..

(06-11-2019 01:44 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  It's a PR tactic, particularly with numbers and dollar lists.

Basically, what the B12 may be doing is using uncut, gross distribution figures, then each school pays back in their "dues" to the conference office

Wonder if the University of Oklahoma advanced the idea? They do have experience with reporting funny numbers.

Depending on what or who you are reading, financial intake rankings and distributions can somewhat vary. BIG and SEC figures still remain above the rest. Even for those two, the figures can change for a designated period depending on who is reporting. For the most part, it may not be deliberate deception, but a reflection of what is included, or not included, in the self-reporting process..

I wholly agree that’s what they’re doing in order to appear financially stronger on paper than they actually are.

It would change the narrative from “Strong third behind the B1G and SEC” to “Holy crap, 3/4ths of our league is making almost 10 million less a year than Vandy and Northwestern!”

I would classify this period of the B12 'the calm before the storm'. Even if offered SEC level money, would UTX and OU really want to remain?

(06-11-2019 03:51 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  I would classify this period of the B12 'the calm before the storm'. Even if offered SEC level money, would UTX and OU really want to remain?

Depends on the fans. Texas season ticket holders have wanted better home matchups. The Big 12 schedule sucks and they always play OU in Dallas. So a move to independence or another conference might work for that group of fans.

OU has an easy path to the playoffs and still plays the majority of their historic rivals. They could have left the Big 12 and joined the SEC with A&M but Boren said OU couldn’t leave both their rivals behind: Texas and Oklahoma State.

(06-16-2019 12:09 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 03:51 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  I would classify this period of the B12 'the calm before the storm'. Even if offered SEC level money, would UTX and OU really want to remain?

Depends on the fans. Texas season ticket holders have wanted better home matchups. The Big 12 schedule sucks and they always play OU in Dallas. So a move to independence or another conference might work for that group of fans.

OU has an easy path to the playoffs and still plays the majority of their historic rivals. They could have left the Big 12 and joined the SEC with A&M but Boren said OU couldn’t leave both their rivals behind: Texas and Oklahoma State.

This is message board fans on different sites, but I don't see that big of a desire to move by UT fans overall.

UT fans I know have been carping about this their terrible conference schedule for years now.

They don’t care about games with Tech or Baylor or Okie Lite or KSU and OU will never be played at DKR

That’s why they’re scheduling so many big name name opponents now (especially from the SEC) to sell home game tickets but still remain in a conference that is totally dependent on them for survival as a P league