(05-21-2019 04:57 AM)Kaplankrazies Wrote: If W&M played in the Ivy League, Shaver would not have been a sub-.500 coach. The CAA got multiple at-large bids and final 4 berths during the first half of his tenure and it’s ridiculous to think we should’ve been consistently finishing over .500 vs those teams. Stripping this context from your analysis is lazy and I hope you don’t judge our new coach so superficially after the team wins 4 games this year.
If you compare their record over the past 5 years (So after ODU/VCU/GMU/GSU left and Elon/CoC were added) the CAA and Ivy are generally ranked in the same area. In fact, by some metrics the Ivy was ranked well ahead of the CAA this year (
http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html). Over that era, Jones still has a better record than Shaver does - Yale has finished 1st in the Ivy regular season 3 times over the past 5 years.
(05-21-2019 09:15 AM)nj alum Wrote: James Jones:
2000- first year (D-1)
2002- reg season tie for first ... NIT
2012- CIT
2014- CIT
2015- reg season tie for first ... lost playoff game
2016- reg season champ ... auto bid ... NCAA second round
2019- reg season tie for first ... won two playoff games ... NCAA
Tony Shaver:
1987- first year (D-3)
1989- Sweet 16
1992- reg season first ... Sweet 16
1994- Sweet 16
1995- reg season first ... Elite 8
1997- First Round
1998- reg season tie for first ... Sweet 16
1999- reg season first ... Runner-up
2000- reg season first ... Second round
2001- reg season tie for first ... Second round
2002- Second round
2003- reg season tie for first ... Final Four
2004- first year (D-1)
2008- won three playoff games, lost one
2010- won two playoff games, lost one ... NIT
2014- won two playoff games, lost one
2015- reg. season tie for first ... won two playoff games, lost one ...NIT
At W&M, Tony Shaver did not coach in an eight team league, unlike Yale.
At W&M, Tony Shaver did not have an automatic bid associated with a regular season championship available to him, unlike Yale.
At W&M, Tony Shaver had to win 3-4 four games in the CAA tourney to get the bid, unlike Yale which only has to win two in the modern era.
Most importantly ... :-) ... do ya think Coach Jones and his program benefited from the 2012 and 2014 CIT bids which most on here scorn?
Keep smearing the best men's basketball coach that W&M has ever had ... my feelings of disgust aren't limited to the two people who drove Tony and his staff out of town.
Part of me doesn't know if it's worth responding. I don't think you're going to change your mind, and that's fine. I also don't think anyone is really smearing Shaver. Nobody disagrees that Shaver is a good coach, and a good guy. But at a certain point the excuses are getting a little extreme.
In terms of the Ivy League tournament format:
W&M finished tied for first once over Shaver's tenure, so the CAA Tournament helped us, not hurt. And yes, the Ivy league tournament only has 4 teams, but it's the top 4 teams in the conference. If we get bounced by the 10 seed in the CAA Tournament, we're not deserving of making March Madness.
And though the Ivy tournament is only 4 teams, that does mean you have to do well in the regular season to get in. If the CAA tournament was only 4 teams we would have qualified for it 6 of Shaver's 16 seasons.
And while it was never on our home court, it was in Richmond for much of that time, which is about as close as you can get.
So I think the CAA format actually benefits W&M more than the Ivy league version would from a perspective of making the dance.
At a certain point, you have to win the games you play, and beat your conference opponents. Unless you want W&M to drop to the Patriot, we'll have to deal with the CAA. We're definitely never going to be the biggest fish in the pond, but that doesn't mean that we should give a pass for everything.