(05-19-2019 07:31 AM)BRtransplant Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 05:15 PM)BeagleUSM Wrote:  No one in C-USA really has a “legit” athletic program. Let’s be real here.

There may be a very few exceptions, but almost all G5 programs are less "legit" than they used to be. The P5 was created for no other reason than to accomplish this very thing. Once those pesky and uppity programs at places like TCU and Utah managed to break through the P5 wall, and this madness simply had to stop. The powers that be in the conferences that now make up the P5 came up with a plan that would ensure this uppity madness ended right there, and it did. Everyone still in a G5 conference is now totally locked out of ever making the big time.

Some people are able to deal with this reality better than others. I feel for programs like UH, UCF, USF, and Boise. They came so tantalizingly close to making the big time, yet in the end, they were cast away with the rest of us. That's got to hurt.

Think I-AA. Something like it is where we will all end up.

Yes. Most are in denial but so true.

So, has a conclusion been reached on the board yet about who the tallest midget is in C-USA?

My non biased opinion ranking,

1. Marshall
2. Middle Tennessee
3. Southern Mississippi
4. Alabama Birmingham
5. Western Kentucky
6. Louisiana Tech
7. Old Dominion

8-14 Even

(05-19-2019 08:14 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-19-2019 07:31 AM)BRtransplant Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 05:15 PM)BeagleUSM Wrote:  No one in C-USA really has a “legit” athletic program. Let’s be real here.

There may be a very few exceptions, but almost all G5 programs are less "legit" than they used to be. The P5 was created for no other reason than to accomplish this very thing. Once those pesky and uppity programs at places like TCU and Utah managed to break through the P5 wall, and this madness simply had to stop. The powers that be in the conferences that now make up the P5 came up with a plan that would ensure this uppity madness ended right there, and it did. Everyone still in a G5 conference is now totally locked out of ever making the big time.

Some people are able to deal with this reality better than others. I feel for programs like UH, UCF, USF, and Boise. They came so tantalizingly close to making the big time, yet in the end, they were cast away with the rest of us. That's got to hurt.

Think I-AA. Something like it is where we will all end up.

They have been cast away, but just because they appear to be locked out of the P5 does not mean they have been permanently relegated to a lower level. I believe Houston, UCF, USF, Memphis, Boise State, and BYU will reform with other programs that set themselves apart in the current vat of G5 cast aways.

The AAC is the best G5, but carries too many small private schools that can't gain the conference enough strength of schedule credit in the OOC. At some point in the future their will be another airport meeting, and the core programs from the AAC will be entertaining the best programs from the other G5 conferences.

This new conference will be full of programs that can compete against the average middle of the road P5 program (and have opportunities to do it, due to solid scheduling with home and home P5 series). The champ of this new conference will have a shot at a playoff spot as often as some P5 conferences.

Any program that wants in, needs to kick their addition to body-bag games, schedule P5s to home and home series, raise more funds, build and renovate facilities, grow their athletic budget, increase attendance (while attendance averages are decreasing), develop a real marketing strategy, and string together several 9 or 10 win seasons. College football remains an arms race. It may happen in the next 5 years, or it may be another decade, but I believe it will happen.

You're obviously living in the same dream world that the fans of UH, UCF, USF, Memphis, and Boise do. I hate to break it to you, but even the very best G5 programs have been cast aside by the P5.

The intended mission of the powers that be in the P5 was to totally and completely separate from G5 schools. They're not quite finished, but they will succeed.

Hate to ask a dumb question, however what is the criteria to be a "flagship?"

Total number of conference championships?
Longest history of success in a particular sport(s)?
Tenure in the conference?
Do academics matter?
Brand recognition?
Size of the university budget and/or endowment?
Best weather?
Best eating options on or near campus?
Best happy hour prices near campus?

(05-19-2019 04:35 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  The closest thing we have as a flagship in any sport is Rice baseball.

If college baseball success equals "flagship" then we might as well say we do not have a "flagship" school in CUSA......Besides, Rice is no longer the baseball program it once was.....No one cares about baseball nationally, people care about college football and college basketball, two sports WKU has had success in.......

(05-20-2019 07:33 AM)topper1296 Wrote:  Hate to ask a dumb question, however what is the criteria to be a "flagship?"

Total number of conference championships?
Longest history of success in a particular sport(s)?
Tenure in the conference?
Do academics matter?
Brand recognition?
Size of the university budget and/or endowment?
Best weather?
Best eating options on or near campus?
Best happy hour prices near campus?

This...

The offseason is always fun...

(05-18-2019 11:01 AM)Jack Bauer Wrote:  I’d say the only ones should be usm and Marshall. They are the only programs that outside people know well. Marshall might be because of the crash but everyone knows who they are and cause southern miss was pretty good a long time ago. Everyone else is the same

If we're talking about from the original formation, I'd put UAB in there... basketball wise, early on they were the most consistent of our programs in the conference.

If we're talking about since the expansion, you can't really argue against MTSU or WKU in terms of overall performance (Although I don't really count Olympic sports in terms of a flagship school).

I think the no flagship is probably the answer. There certainly aren't any networks saying because you have x university we are going to give you this many millions for your conference. That's one way to view it.

In terms of competition, no one is consistently at the top. Everyone of us has peaks and valleys. Middle Tennessee is most certainly not a flagship. We have been consistently decent - perhaps more so than a lot of other programs in the league, but we have not been consistently great. So, you can eliminate us from that conversation.

And that consistently decent has come to an end. By the time calendar year 2019 (and I'm assuming a 4-8 season in football which is highly probable) the combined records for the three main sports at MT will be:

33-66

That's easy math right there. A .333 winning percentage in 2019.

Have you seen our Women's Soccer attendance? Very Flagship-like

My opinion of name recognition and brand awareness in CUSA

Top tier: Marshall, USM, Rice
Tier 2: La. Tech, ODU, UAB, WKU, MTSU, Charlotte
Tier3: UTEP, UNT, FAU, UTSA, FIU

(05-20-2019 10:17 AM)monarx Wrote:  My opinion of name recognition and brand awareness in CUSA

Top tier: Marshall, USM, Rice
Tier 2: La. Tech, ODU, UAB, WKU, MTSU, Charlotte
Tier3: UTEP, UNT, FAU, UTSA, FIU

In my opinion:

Top Tier: Rice, Marshall, USM (order unimportant)
Tier 2: La Tech, ODU
Tier 3: Everyone else

Just because everyone else is out there posting opinions.

Rice, Marshall, Southern Miss and La Tech.

If we're talking who has the biggest brand name/history/conf. champs/history of success/conf. tenure then it's Southern Miss and Marshall.

But the problem is, your average CFB fan probably can't even tell you what conference USM and Marshall are in.

If it helps, here is some outside viewpoints on the C-USA Schools that have come up in conversations with other sports fans in the Intermountain West (primarily Utah). Some of these are comment's I've heard and not my own. Order listed is not a ranking.

UTEP- We know these guys from the old WAC days. A little shocked they haven't joined the Mountain West.
Louisiana Tech- Strong Women's Basketball history. Also a former WAC member. Hasn't been talked about much since joining the C-USA.
Rice- Strong academics. Use to be in the old South West Conference. They keep wondering why Rice is still in the C-USA.
North Texas- Another school that was in a western based league in the past. Located near Dallas comes up a lot by people thinking about markets.
Southern Miss- Use to be a spoiler against power teams a while ago. Haven't heard anything about them in a while.
Marshall- There is a movie about this school. Couldn't tell you where it is located without looking it up.
Middle Tennessee State- The only reason this school was brought up is that BYU went to MTSU for a football game a few years ago. The question asked was "Why is BYU playing at an FCS school? They're not FCS? With an name like that?" Nothing since then.
UAB- Why did they drop football? Oh it's back now? That was quick.

If I didn't mention a school, it wasn't brought up in a conversation.

Surprised at the lack of mentions for UAB. We're a founding member of the conference, have a nationally recognized medical enterprise (Top 20 medical school, top 20 in public universities in research funding, and a world-renowned hospital), the football shutdown/return created a decent amount of brand awareness, football success since the return, and basketball history.

(05-20-2019 02:02 PM)TardisCaptain Wrote:  If it helps, here is some outside viewpoints on the C-USA Schools that have come up in conversations with other sports fans in the Intermountain West (primarily Utah). Some of these are comment's I've heard and not my own. Order listed is not a ranking.

UTEP- We know these guys from the old WAC days. A little shocked they haven't joined the Mountain West.
Louisiana Tech- Strong Women's Basketball history. Also a former WAC member. Hasn't been talked about much since joining the C-USA.
Rice- Strong academics. Use to be in the old South West Conference. They keep wondering why Rice is still in the C-USA.
North Texas- Another school that was in a western based league in the past. Located near Dallas comes up a lot by people thinking about markets.
Southern Miss- Use to be a spoiler against power teams a while ago. Haven't heard anything about them in a while.
Marshall- There is a movie about this school. Couldn't tell you where it is located without looking it up.
Middle Tennessee State- The only reason this school was brought up is that BYU went to MTSU for a football game a few years ago. The question asked was "Why is BYU playing at an FCS school? They're not FCS? With an name like that?" Nothing since then.
UAB- Why did they drop football? Oh it's back now? That was quick.

If I didn't mention a school, it wasn't brought up in a conversation.

LMAO. Not real bright out there eh?

Here's a hint. If you've lost to Charlotte in football you're not a Flagship. If the most success you can sustain in a given sport is maxed out at 3 years until your coach is poached and you're irrelevant again for another 3, you're not a flagship. If all you have to base your flagship status on is athletic results from 20-30 years ago, academics or budget, you're not a flagship.

Maybe I'm getting too caught up in the term but I don't see one. Sure there's better and worse programs, fanbases, brand recognizability but nope, no "flagships"

I dont think there is any "Flagship" school in C-USA. To me that would mean being at or near the top in Football, Basketball, Women's Basketball and Baseball each of the past 5 years. No team in C-USA is even close to that.