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wml33t Online
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Post: #41
RE: The bottom line
Certainly GoldenAge's words are far more harsh than I would use, but there is some merit to his sentiment. On paper, there's just no argument against the fact that our roster is a downgrade from previous seasons. To get specific to the point, we have literally no scholarship level backups at the 2,3, or 4 position. Not that we have low level scholarship backups. Not that we have unseasoned scholarship backups. We. Have. No. Backups. We have a backup point guard and a backup center. Both guys that simply do not have the skillset to fill 2,3, or 4. I'm sure they'll end up doing it. And they'll try their hardest, but it's simply not their skillset.

If this team outperforms last year's team, then there's simply nothing else to point to other than coaching.
05-15-2019 09:40 AM
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mrjoolius Online
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Post: #42
The bottom line
It scares me to agree with Tribal here. While I think what was posted also was far fetched, throwing a blanket "you don't have a clue and that's bs" does nothing. How about a post to elaborate on your comments?
(This post was last modified: 05-15-2019 09:41 AM by mrjoolius.)
05-15-2019 09:40 AM
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mrjoolius Online
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Post: #43
RE: The bottom line
(05-15-2019 09:40 AM)wml33t Wrote:  Certainly GoldenAge's words are far more harsh than I would use, but there is some merit to his sentiment. On paper, there's just no argument against the fact that our roster is a downgrade from previous seasons. To get specific to the point, we have literally no scholarship level backups at the 2,3, or 4 position. Not that we have low level scholarship backups. Not that we have unseasoned scholarship backups. We. Have. No. Backups. We have a backup point guard and a backup center. Both guys that simply do not have the skillset to fill 2,3, or 4. I'm sure they'll end up doing it. And they'll try their hardest, but it's simply not their skillset.

If this team outperforms last year's team, then there's simply nothing else to point to other than coaching.
Agreed. This team as currently constructed is paper thin on depth and it will bite them during the teeth of the season. There is also no margin for dealing with injuries. Even if these returning players click and play well, the back to back nature of the tournament will be tough with tired legs. I hope Dane plans to have the best conditioning program in the country. All 6/7 returnees will need to give important minutes to compete.
05-15-2019 09:48 AM
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Post: #44
RE: The bottom line
It is a little silly for us to speculate about wins and losses for next season, other than to say without the addition of transfers or recruits who can play and contribute for the 2019-2020 season, the team will struggle to win games period - it doesn't matter who the opponent is. Without the addition of some guards, Nate, if he comes back, might have to bring the ball up himself to make sure he gets the ball at all. Is this hyperbole, yes, but so are other projections of more than a handful of wins with so many roster spots open.

Let's wait and see if the new staff signs some players who are eligible this fall. Then we can argue over whether this team can win more than 10 games next season.

I look for several non-DI games to be on the schedule next year.
05-15-2019 09:53 AM
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Tribe32 Online
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Post: #45
RE: The bottom line
I agree with NC Tribe on waiting a few weeks before we make any judgment. I would be very surprised if we play a lot of D2/3 teams. I don't think Huge is looking for easy wins either. She's looking for money. I won't be shocked if we play several games against big name opponents on the road before the conference games start. I honestly don't think she really understands big time college athletics and what it takes to be successful at a place like W&M. My only question is how much rope she gives Fischer and whether she supports him unconditionally when we stink. If we keep losing for a couple years we are going to attract lesser recruits until we get better facilities and more funding. Just seems like we still aren't at the bottom given the slide we're on.
05-15-2019 10:21 AM
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wml33t Online
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Post: #46
RE: The bottom line
(05-15-2019 09:48 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  
(05-15-2019 09:40 AM)wml33t Wrote:  Certainly GoldenAge's words are far more harsh than I would use, but there is some merit to his sentiment. On paper, there's just no argument against the fact that our roster is a downgrade from previous seasons. To get specific to the point, we have literally no scholarship level backups at the 2,3, or 4 position. Not that we have low level scholarship backups. Not that we have unseasoned scholarship backups. We. Have. No. Backups. We have a backup point guard and a backup center. Both guys that simply do not have the skillset to fill 2,3, or 4. I'm sure they'll end up doing it. And they'll try their hardest, but it's simply not their skillset.

If this team outperforms last year's team, then there's simply nothing else to point to other than coaching.
Agreed. This team as currently constructed is paper thin on depth and it will bite them during the teeth of the season. There is also no margin for dealing with injuries. Even if these returning players click and play well, the back to back nature of the tournament will be tough with tired legs. I hope Dane plans to have the best conditioning program in the country. All 6/7 returnees will need to give important minutes to compete.

I'd also feel more comfortable I think if our 6/7 guys had more versatile skillsets to stretch into other roles. It's a double whammy where not only are we lacking depth, but the depth we have is fairly pigeon-holed.
05-15-2019 10:22 AM
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mrjoolius Online
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Post: #47
RE: The bottom line
(05-15-2019 10:22 AM)wml33t Wrote:  
(05-15-2019 09:48 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  
(05-15-2019 09:40 AM)wml33t Wrote:  Certainly GoldenAge's words are far more harsh than I would use, but there is some merit to his sentiment. On paper, there's just no argument against the fact that our roster is a downgrade from previous seasons. To get specific to the point, we have literally no scholarship level backups at the 2,3, or 4 position. Not that we have low level scholarship backups. Not that we have unseasoned scholarship backups. We. Have. No. Backups. We have a backup point guard and a backup center. Both guys that simply do not have the skillset to fill 2,3, or 4. I'm sure they'll end up doing it. And they'll try their hardest, but it's simply not their skillset.

If this team outperforms last year's team, then there's simply nothing else to point to other than coaching.
Agreed. This team as currently constructed is paper thin on depth and it will bite them during the teeth of the season. There is also no margin for dealing with injuries. Even if these returning players click and play well, the back to back nature of the tournament will be tough with tired legs. I hope Dane plans to have the best conditioning program in the country. All 6/7 returnees will need to give important minutes to compete.

I'd also feel more comfortable I think if our 6/7 guys had more versatile skillsets to stretch into other roles. It's a double whammy where not only are we lacking depth, but the depth we have is fairly pigeon-holed.
I guess we will need to see what Fischer's offense looks like. Under Shaver, we used more of a 4 perimeter and 1 post lineup. I think since inside play is a strength, we will see more of a traditional 3 out and 2 inside lineup. Loewe and Scott will man the point, but all the guard spots should be fairly interchangeable depending on situation. Three player interior rotation with Knight & Van Vliet starting.

1- Loewe (Scott)
2- Williams (Scott, Blair, walk-on, or commit/transfer)
3- Blair (Van Vliet, Williams, or commit/transfer)
4- Van Vliet (Harvey)
5- Knight (Harvey)

This lineup will absolutely struggle defending quickness on the perimeter, but I see potential for them offensively. A lot of uncertainty and question marks, but certainly some talent. Hofstra won a lot of games with an 8 man rotation a couple of years ago. Sure, our guys are less proven, but winning is certainly doable with a short bench. If I'm playing W&M, I absolutely press this team. Both Loewe and Scott showed an affinity for wanting to cough the ball up last year. It would probably fall to the bigs to bring the ball up under pressure like Pierce did last season. I believe Blair & Van Vliet are competent ball handler and may be able to do this.
(This post was last modified: 05-15-2019 10:57 AM by mrjoolius.)
05-15-2019 10:51 AM
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wml33t Online
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Post: #48
RE: The bottom line
(05-15-2019 10:51 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  I guess we will need to see what Fischer's offense looks like. Under Shaver, we used more of a 4 perimeter and 1 post lineup. I think since inside play is a strength, we will see more of a traditional 3 out and 2 inside lineup. Loewe and Scott will man the point, but all the guard spots should be fairly interchangeable depending on situation. Three player interior rotation with Knight & Van Vliet starting.

1- Loewe (Scott)
2- Williams (walk-on or commit/transfer)
3- Blair
4- Van Vliet
5- Knight (Harvey)

This lineup will absolutely struggle defending quickness on the perimeter, but I see potential for them offensively. A lot of uncertainty and question marks, but certainly some talent. Hofstra won a lot of games with an 8 man rotation a couple of years ago. Sure, our guys are less proven, but winning is certainly doable with a short bench. If I'm playing W&M, I absolutely press this team. Both Loewe and Scott showed an affinity for wanting to cough the ball up last year. It would probably fall to the bigs to bring the ball up under pressure like Pierce did last season. I believe Blair & Van Vliet are competent ball handler and may be able to do this.

But the point I'm making (and to be clear, this is for the fun of discussion, not out of any anger) is.. who backs up Jihir/Blair/Vliet? Loewe and Scott on the floor at the same time seems... problematic. Harvey maybe could server in the 4, but certainly not the 3. The minutes are there in a thin lineup, but the position affinities just.. aren't.
(This post was last modified: 05-15-2019 11:05 AM by wml33t.)
05-15-2019 10:57 AM
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mrjoolius Online
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Post: #49
RE: The bottom line
(05-15-2019 10:57 AM)wml33t Wrote:  But the point I'm making (and to be clear, this is for the fun of discussion, not out of any anger) is.. who backs up Jihir/Blair/Vliet? Loewe and Scott on the floor at the same time seems... problematic. Harvey maybe could server in the 4, but certainly not the 3. The minutes are there in a thin lineup, but the position affinities just.. aren't.

In a suboptimal lineup depending on fouls

Loewe/Scott
Williams or Blair
Van Vliet
Knight
Harvey

In every lineup, I want any 2 of Van Vliet, Knight, or Harvey. In a pinch we could use all three with VV at small forward. Backing up the 2 would have to be some combo of Williams /Scott /Blair
(This post was last modified: 05-15-2019 11:05 AM by mrjoolius.)
05-15-2019 11:04 AM
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wml33t Online
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Post: #50
RE: The bottom line
(05-15-2019 11:04 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  
(05-15-2019 10:57 AM)wml33t Wrote:  But the point I'm making (and to be clear, this is for the fun of discussion, not out of any anger) is.. who backs up Jihir/Blair/Vliet? Loewe and Scott on the floor at the same time seems... problematic. Harvey maybe could server in the 4, but certainly not the 3. The minutes are there in a thin lineup, but the position affinities just.. aren't.

In a suboptimal lineup depending on fouls

Loewe/Scott
Williams or Blair
Van Vliet
Knight
Harvey

In every lineup, I want any 2 of Van Vliet, Knight, or Harvey. In a pinch we could use all three with VV at small forward. Backing up the 2 would have to be some combo of Williams /Scott /Blair

That just feels brutal when the realities of fouls/conditioning come in to play IMO.
05-15-2019 11:06 AM
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mrjoolius Online
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Post: #51
RE: The bottom line
(05-15-2019 11:06 AM)wml33t Wrote:  
(05-15-2019 11:04 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  
(05-15-2019 10:57 AM)wml33t Wrote:  But the point I'm making (and to be clear, this is for the fun of discussion, not out of any anger) is.. who backs up Jihir/Blair/Vliet? Loewe and Scott on the floor at the same time seems... problematic. Harvey maybe could server in the 4, but certainly not the 3. The minutes are there in a thin lineup, but the position affinities just.. aren't.

In a suboptimal lineup depending on fouls

Loewe/Scott
Williams or Blair
Van Vliet
Knight
Harvey

In every lineup, I want any 2 of Van Vliet, Knight, or Harvey. In a pinch we could use all three with VV at small forward. Backing up the 2 would have to be some combo of Williams /Scott /Blair

That just feels brutal when the realities of fouls/conditioning come in to play IMO.
Oh, it absolutely is brutal. It is just the reality of what we have in the cupboard. I'd love to be able to add a D1 level grad transfer SF or PG. It would take a lot of strain off of the team. Unfortunately, I'm not sure where any of that stands.
05-15-2019 11:14 AM
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Post: #52
RE: The bottom line
I think we are underselling Scott as a 2-guard a little. It's not ideal but he can at least play the position. Whereas, Loewe can really only be a PG. I think a lineup combo of Loewe, Scott, Williams, big, big is likely to see the floor at points next season unless we get more players.
05-15-2019 11:20 AM
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Post: #53
The bottom line
I'm excited for Blair to get extended minutes now without needing to look over his shoulder for a sub. I like his toughness. Hopefully he will be able act as a Pierce lite- rebounding, shooting, and setting up guys on offense with his passing. I think he can be the heart of the lineup and the team can feed off of his energy.
05-15-2019 11:41 AM
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Post: #54
RE: The bottom line
Obvious from this writeup that there was never any expectation of retaining last year's team, and that we are simply starting over with a new regime.

https://pilotonline.com/sports/college/e...49fca.html

Takes a lot of years to build up a program and fan base. Guess Huge and Fischer are guessing they'll come back in 3-4 years, if the program is rebuilt.......Good luck.
05-15-2019 11:45 AM
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Post: #55
RE: The bottom line
(05-15-2019 11:45 AM)Tribeheart Wrote:  Obvious from this writeup that there was never any expectation of retaining last year's team, and that we are simply starting over with a new regime.

https://pilotonline.com/sports/college/e...49fca.html

Takes a lot of years to build up a program and fan base. Guess Huge and Fischer are guessing they'll come back in 3-4 years, if the program is rebuilt.......Good luck.

So I guess we aren't giving up on 2019 recruits. Glad to hear the staff has been "busy recruiting" because the silence has been deafening.
05-15-2019 11:55 AM
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Tribe32 Online
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Post: #56
RE: The bottom line
Fischer said all of the right things in the article. Let's see who the really good players and transfers are and then we'll see what we have.
05-15-2019 11:55 AM
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Post: #57
RE: The bottom line
(05-15-2019 11:45 AM)Tribeheart Wrote:  Obvious from this writeup that there was never any expectation of retaining last year's team, and that we are simply starting over with a new regime.

https://pilotonline.com/sports/college/e...49fca.html

Takes a lot of years to build up a program and fan base. Guess Huge and Fischer are guessing they'll come back in 3-4 years, if the program is rebuilt.......Good luck.
Thanks for the post. It's nice to get any sliver of info out of this program.
05-15-2019 11:56 AM
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Post: #58
RE: The bottom line
(05-15-2019 11:45 AM)Tribeheart Wrote:  Obvious from this writeup that there was never any expectation of retaining last year's team, and that we are simply starting over with a new regime.

https://pilotonline.com/sports/college/e...49fca.html

Takes a lot of years to build up a program and fan base. Guess Huge and Fischer are guessing they'll come back in 3-4 years, if the program is rebuilt.......Good luck.

The total skeptic in me believes that Huge asked Dave Johnson to write that article simply to make us think that everything was already going to go to Hell in a handbasket for the 2019-20 season if Tony stayed, that there was not going to ever be the dream team that we thought we would be seeing next year, that she had a plan from the start for next season and beyond, and that Fischer, her chosen one from the start, is going to make everything better for us, even next year. The timing is quite ironic for me since I received her standard boilerplate letter in the mail yesterday encouraging me to continue my support of Tribe Athletics. If only she would call me.

There is absolutely no way on God's green earth that she ever imagined that we would be left with, at most, 7 scholarship players at this point. And THAT is the problem.
05-15-2019 12:33 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #59
RE: The bottom line
(05-15-2019 09:40 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  It scares me to agree with Tribal here. While I think what was posted also was far fetched, throwing a blanket "you don't have a clue and that's bs" does nothing. How about a post to elaborate on your comments?
Why, exactly, does it scare you to agree with me? Bad mrjoolius...very bad boy, indeed.

About the article: We are GOING to explore grad transfers? Please tell me they've been exploring that option for several weeks. I have to say, I don't care for the "that's what happens after a coaching change" bit. No, that doesn't have to happen and you can ve proactive vice reactive. See Elon for the blueprint.

Dave Johnson publicly slammed Huge for firing Tony. He's no puppet.

I have zero idea about what's out there as far as '19s, sit-a-year transfers, eligible transfers, and grad transfers. I do like that Dane isn't settling for the sake of blowing scholarships or filling the roster. W&M MBB is damaged goods and, I think, requires a real kick in the tail. High energy, hit the pavement, social media blitz, fan (stakeholder) involvement, and immediate impact...I'm not sure we've seen that out of Dane and his staff. London hit on all cylinders as far as that goes.


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(This post was last modified: 05-15-2019 01:03 PM by Tribal.)
05-15-2019 12:46 PM
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Post: #60
RE: The bottom line
(05-15-2019 12:33 PM)WMTRIBE75 Wrote:  The total skeptic in me believes that Huge asked Dave Johnson to write that article simply to make us think that everything was already going to go to Hell in a handbasket for the 2019-20 season if Tony stayed, that there was not going to ever be the dream team that we thought we would be seeing next year, that she had a plan from the start for next season and beyond, and that Fischer, her chosen one from the start, is going to make everything better for us, even next year.

There isn't a doubt in my mind that the AD floated this story to a friendly paper/reporter (as opposed to the scathing WYD coverage). Good. That's what Huge should be doing. This is her mess and she should be out there daily trying to spin the story and get the college some positive coverage. As for the actual meat of the article, I guess we'll have to wait and see.
05-15-2019 12:48 PM
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