(03-27-2019 06:57 PM)nj alum Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 05:20 PM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 04:29 PM)TribePride91 Wrote:  But, when this decision was made, there is no other realistic message sent to the players than we don't think you can get this done.

How about this for a realistic message: "We think the coach is holding you back." Regardless of whether that's the case or not, that's a completely reasonable message for the players to receive, and they very well may have gotten that specific message in their meeting with Huge.

If the W&M AD had walked into the baseball locker room in the late 70’s and told us that “we think the coach is holding you back”, he would have been jeered out of the room. Why? Because the support given by the Administration to the coach was perceived as being non-existent by the players. The players had the coach’s back, and rightfully so.

If Huge gave the same message to this group of basketball players, the response should have been the same- the support given to this coach by the Administration over 16 years was laughable, and she should have been jeered out of the room. No dedicated practice time. Sharing with other teams. Passing the hat for a foreign trip. No summer classes until recently, and largely due to donor initiative. Etc., etc., etc.

On the other hand, if this group didn’t have the coach’s back, kind of shines some light on this situation.

Sorry, that was not a reasonable message for the players to receive. If that message was given, that would take a lot of chutzpah re: this coach and this sport at W&M.

Not arguing that Shaver and the staff had adequate support (especially financially), but the bolded segment isn't necessarily true. The team always has plenty of dedicated practice time and was never knocked off track or burdened by having to share with other teams-- sure, the women's team always has a practice slot, but court space is never shared. There are sometimes instances, like big events happening at the Hall or early tips for women's games, that cause the team to practice at the student rec center or even at the Adair gym. Those instances are pretty rare though.

Unfortunately, W&M basketball lacks a culture in which players truly have the head coach's back in the sense that your baseball comparison describes. Not for any one or two reasons in particular.

(03-27-2019 05:15 PM)Tank55 Wrote:  Can we please stop with this "the kids are victims!" narrative? For one thing, they're adults; this infantilizing is nauseating. They still have their scholarship to a top university in exchange for playing basketball. They have the option to transfer if they so choose. It takes a tremendous lack of perspective to be able to look at their situation with pity.

Sorry. No. I think breaking up a team that had five returning starters is outrageous. Had our AD waited one more year, the players wouldn’t have been put in this situation. They only get four years to play college basketball. They committed to Shaver, got the rug pulled right out from underneath them, and should have been held in higher regard by our AD. The W&M I know has more integrity than that. Sorry but I care more about our players than an AD looking to springboard into a Power 5 conference.

Swemster, there is a difference between having dedicated practice time and having a dedicated facility. I believe that's what has been lacking. A facility just for basketball practice either for team sponsored practice of individual practice after hours. Makes a huge difference.

(03-27-2019 09:23 PM)UmbrellaRiver Wrote:  Sorry. No. I think breaking up a team that had five returning starters is outrageous. Had our AD waited one more year, the players wouldn’t have been put in this situation. They only get four years to play college basketball. They committed to Shaver, got the rug pulled right out from underneath them, and should have been held in higher regard by our AD. The W&M I know has more integrity than that. Sorry but I care more about our players than an AD looking to springboard into a Power 5 conference.

We can care about the players without insulting their agency. And maybe you're just being hyperbolic, but nobody is dreaming about a Power 5 conference.

(03-27-2019 09:23 PM)UmbrellaRiver Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 05:15 PM)Tank55 Wrote:  Can we please stop with this "the kids are victims!" narrative? For one thing, they're adults; this infantilizing is nauseating. They still have their scholarship to a top university in exchange for playing basketball. They have the option to transfer if they so choose. It takes a tremendous lack of perspective to be able to look at their situation with pity.

Sorry. No. I think breaking up a team that had five returning starters is outrageous. Had our AD waited one more year, the players wouldn’t have been put in this situation. They only get four years to play college basketball. They committed to Shaver, got the rug pulled right out from underneath them, and should have been held in higher regard by our AD. The W&M I know has more integrity than that. Sorry but I care more about our players than an AD looking to springboard into a Power 5 conference.

This makes zero sense. A coach shouldn't be fired because there are players who committed to him on the roster? By this logic, basically no coach should be fired ever no matter the circumstances...

(03-28-2019 06:38 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Swemster, there is a difference between having dedicated practice time and having a dedicated facility. I believe that's what has been lacking. A facility just for basketball practice either for team sponsored practice of individual practice after hours. Makes a huge difference.

Totally different issue than the one I commented on and something that reaches beyond the scope of “adequate administrative support.”

Luke appears to be attempting interest from a lot of midwestern mid-majors closer to home. I would guess if he finds a good fit closer to Wisconsin that he may be leaving regardless of who the new coach is.

(03-28-2019 07:55 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 09:23 PM)UmbrellaRiver Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 05:15 PM)Tank55 Wrote:  Can we please stop with this "the kids are victims!" narrative? For one thing, they're adults; this infantilizing is nauseating. They still have their scholarship to a top university in exchange for playing basketball. They have the option to transfer if they so choose. It takes a tremendous lack of perspective to be able to look at their situation with pity.

Sorry. No. I think breaking up a team that had five returning starters is outrageous. Had our AD waited one more year, the players wouldn’t have been put in this situation. They only get four years to play college basketball. They committed to Shaver, got the rug pulled right out from underneath them, and should have been held in higher regard by our AD. The W&M I know has more integrity than that. Sorry but I care more about our players than an AD looking to springboard into a Power 5 conference.

This makes zero sense. A coach shouldn't be fired because there are players who committed to him on the roster? By this logic, basically no coach should be fired ever no matter the circumstances...

The day the season ended the players had a coach they signed to play for, teammates they’d developed with, and a preseason top-ranked squad heading into next year.

A few weeks later they have no coach, FIVE players considering transfer, and tremendous uncertainty heading into next year.

Firing Shaver this year broke up the team, and YES I feel sorry the players have to go through this. Sorry it doesn’t make sense to you. What makes zero sense to me is why you’d ever fire the coach of a top-ranked preseason team.

(03-28-2019 09:33 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  Luke appears to be attempting interest from a lot of midwestern mid-majors closer to home. I would guess if he finds a good fit closer to Wisconsin that he may be leaving regardless of who the new coach is.

This would strike me as odd considering that (1) he had a chance to do that originally and (2) he's received much more playing time than his production would have merited, and I'm not sure how many programs would start him at this stage. Not that he hasn't improved or that he doesn't do certain things well, but he's still a huge liability of the offensive end at this level.

That's not to say that he wouldn't be making a rational decision if (1) he's redefined his priorities, as 20-year-olds are wont to do or (2) some other coaching staff is higher on him than our new coaching staff.

(03-28-2019 09:33 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  Luke appears to be attempting interest from a lot of midwestern mid-majors closer to home. I would guess if he finds a good fit closer to Wisconsin that he may be leaving regardless of who the new coach is.

Loewe has unfollowed all of those programs he started following when he entered the portal except for Green Bay. A Green Bay Hoops fan site account just started following him - they just published an article mentioning Loewe as one of many options for Green Bay’s last scholarship spot.

A lot of competition for that last Green Bay slot. I hope Luke finds a home. Hate to see him stay, if he doesn't want to be here. Could say the same for LJ.

Looks like Matt is getting a lot of attention from UCF which would give him the opportunity to play back home.

This development highlights the importance of retaining Audige. Also, the waste of a scholarship is a problem. There deadlines involved here. I don’t know the details. I hope Coach Fischer has some guys in the wings.

Loewe staying at wm

(04-19-2019 03:38 PM)WM Beancounter Wrote:  Loewe staying at wm

Is this official? Where did you hear? I just saw he removed his pinned tweet about exploring transfer options, which is a good sign. Nothing short of shocking IMO. Behind JP, I had him as the #2 most likely to leave. Welcome (back) Luke! Maybe some good things brewing in Williamsburg.


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(04-19-2019 03:44 PM)ColonelEbirt Wrote:  

(04-19-2019 03:38 PM)WM Beancounter Wrote:  Loewe staying at wm

Is this official? Where did you hear? I just saw he removed his pinned tweet about exploring transfer options, which is a good sign. Nothing short of shocking IMO. Behind JP, I had him as the #2 most likely to leave. Welcome (back) Luke! Maybe some good things brewing in Williamsburg.


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Dave Johnson at Daily Press tweeted it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DaveJohnsonDP...7038617600

Loewe also unfollowed all the programs he started following once entering the portal - I guess still following Green Bay was an oversight or unrelated.

If the losses remain restricted to just Pierce and Milon, I will contain my anger to only the lost promises of this upcoming season.

I'm happy to have Luke back--even if the interest in him was (justifiably) tepid, his improvement merits a meaningful role on the team for the next couple years. But I'm really focused on the 2022 team as the next one who really might be favored for the monkey off our back, and that means I hope I don't have to be as angry about Chase, LJ and Cam for the next three years as I have been for the past five weeks.

A Passover miracle! Hopefully this spurs a "reverse Exodus"!

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We need to change JP/Million as graduating and not transferring.
I hope Audige and Owens stay unless they are willing to sit out a year. Glad to hear Loewe is staying.

Welcome back, Luke! Good news indeed! Glad to have him back.


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This could be the anchor we need. Luke seems like a quiet leader and I think his choice will quiet the stable.