(03-25-2019 02:09 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 11:41 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 11:30 PM)Zorch Wrote:  Last Tuesday I was listening to Bob Black (UR announcer) on the radio and he was saying that during his many years of working with the previous AD (I think his name was Jim Miller, but the name doesn't matter) that the AD always had a list in his wallet. It was a list of football and basketball coaches that the AD was interested in just in case he had a sudden need for one.

The only list Miller had in his wallet was what he needed from the ABC store that week. That man, drunk at UR's homecoming game, turned off the City Stadium lights on JMU's marching band postgame show in 2006. He is a drunken ass & may he rot with age.

Hyper, are you lost again? lol

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(03-25-2019 02:13 PM)TribePride91 Wrote:  Thanks Hyper. I need all the laughter i can get.

No prob. Jim Miller can suck a butt.

For the points about wanting to fire shaver, a lot of people under 30 were advocating for this or at least saw it as a good idea, from the people I have talked with. So, if Huge's method to gauge a pulse of the team was to talk to students on campus, form an opinion, talk to a couple donors, then talk to one or two players who would have shown indifference to the coach, then she would have come away feeling as though a change was needed.

Also the general tone of this board throughout the season was of disappointment with the team and if that was the sense on a pro Shaver board, then it was likely the sense that she felt when gauging the pulse of the fanbase.

Huge also, I believe, did not trust Shaver's ability to lead this team. I have heard that she would repeatedly ask the coaching staff for the players to shoot free throws and came across as trying to influence the team.

I can see where she got her foundations from but it seems hasty, misguided, and is going to attempt to be fixed by throwing some secret pot of gold she has at the problem and hoping it fixes itself.

(03-25-2019 03:27 PM)GameOfTribes Wrote:  For the points about wanting to fire shaver, a lot of people under 30 were advocating for this or at least saw it as a good idea, from the people I have talked with. So, if Huge's method to gauge a pulse of the team was to talk to students on campus, form an opinion, talk to a couple donors, then talk to one or two players who would have shown indifference to the coach, then she would have come away feeling as though a change was needed.

Yeah college campuses can be a hell of a bubble. I still think Huge is smart enough to have engaged older alumni but if you're hearing all year that you need to fire a coach that can definitely color your thinking.

(03-25-2019 05:16 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 03:27 PM)GameOfTribes Wrote:  For the points about wanting to fire shaver, a lot of people under 30 were advocating for this or at least saw it as a good idea, from the people I have talked with. So, if Huge's method to gauge a pulse of the team was to talk to students on campus, form an opinion, talk to a couple donors, then talk to one or two players who would have shown indifference to the coach, then she would have come away feeling as though a change was needed.

Yeah college campuses can be a hell of a bubble. I still think Huge is smart enough to have engaged older alumni but if you're hearing all year that you need to fire a coach that can definitely color your thinking.

I can see that potentially happening, although I also feeling like a reasonably intelligent person would look back on how the program was before Shaver. Maybe it's the history major in me, but I feel like you have to talk to people who are old enough to remember the old program before making a decision like this.

Then again, I suppose that raises the question of whether Huge makes reasonably intelligent decisions...

(03-24-2019 10:39 PM)GameOfTribes Wrote:  I appreciate the post but the fact of the matter is we do know that 1) players were not at odds with the staff 2) there was no dissension on the team, there was simply no obvious leader as there has been in years past. 3) only pierce was considering transferring prior to the firing and the firing made it a virtual lock that he will be leaving

We do not "know" any of that as fact. That might be your assessment of the situation, but that is not the same as fact.

(03-26-2019 02:33 AM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 10:39 PM)GameOfTribes Wrote:  I appreciate the post but the fact of the matter is we do know that 1) players were not at odds with the staff 2) there was no dissension on the team, there was simply no obvious leader as there has been in years past. 3) only pierce was considering transferring prior to the firing and the firing made it a virtual lock that he will be leaving

We do not "know" any of that as fact. That might be your assessment of the situation, but that is not the same as fact.

I will say, without going into detail, that all 3 of those "facts" are off.

One aspect of this situation that is receiving little attention is the fact that 16 years of continuous leadership, and what that means to a program, were blown up because the program was unable to go dancing.

How important is continuity?

Ask Purdue, where they haven’t been to a Final Four in 39 years, and have had only two coaches during that entire period:

https://amp.indystar.com/amp/3308608002?...ssion=true

W&M just threw away what Purdue has, and Purdue is a rare commodity in the area of continuity.

Why would we throw away something rare and unique ... just to chase fool’s gold?

(03-29-2019 07:45 PM)nj alum Wrote:  One aspect of this situation that is receiving little attention is the fact that 16 years of continuous leadership, and what that means to a program, were blown up because the program was unable to go dancing.

How important is continuity?

Ask Purdue, where they haven’t been to a Final Four in 39 years, and have had only two coaches during that entire period:

https://amp.indystar.com/amp/3308608002?...ssion=true

W&M just threw away what Purdue has, and Purdue is a rare commodity in the area of continuity.

Why would we throw away something rare and unique ... just to chase fool’s gold?

B/c half the fan base at W&M doesn’t understand sports and thinks we can just hire a magician and become a mid-major final four team like VCU. Those of us who know what realistic goals are probably all agree that Shaver accomplished 99/100 goals and was on the brink of achieving the NCAA goal next year. At least with Shaver we felt like we could win road games at Wake Forest, NC State, Maryland, UNC - NIT game. We knew we were never going to be an ACC program, but we could compete and win. I’m not exactly sure what Huge’s goals are, but I’ll bet you half our fans, along with our President, will jump on the bandwagon and think a final four or deep NCAA run is somehow within reach by simply hiring an assistant coach who’s been part of a winning program at some point in their careers. Trivia, since 1984, how many final fours has UVA been to? ZERO! Yep. At least five coaching changes during that span, and ZERO final fours.

Nobody in their right mind would replace Shaver with a UVa assistant coach with no head coaching experience. That is not going to happen. That would be per se AD malpractice.

Purdue's in the Big 10. They can afford to run on autopilot, let their conference mates drive revenue, and be the noble underdog that puts it all together once every 40 years. They are in a strong, stable position. We are not. We're in an FCS football, one-bid/one-and-done basketball, academically worthless league. We can certainly argue over whether firing Shaver is a productive step toward improving our position, but we cannot use Purdue's situation as a useful tool to evaluate our own.

(03-29-2019 08:03 PM)UmbrellaRiver Wrote:  B/c half the fan base at W&M doesn’t understand sports and thinks we can just hire a magician and become a mid-major final four team like VCU.

What makes you say this? I haven't seen anyone talk like that, let alone half the fan base.

(03-29-2019 08:20 PM)Tank55 Wrote:  Purdue's in the Big 10. They can afford to run on autopilot, let their conference mates drive revenue, and be the noble underdog that puts it all together once every 40 years. They are in a strong, stable position. We are not. We're in an FCS football, one-bid/one-and-done basketball, academically worthless league. We can certainly argue over whether firing Shaver is a productive step toward improving our position, but we cannot use Purdue's situation as a useful tool to evaluate our own.

(03-29-2019 08:03 PM)UmbrellaRiver Wrote:  B/c half the fan base at W&M doesn’t understand sports and thinks we can just hire a magician and become a mid-major final four team like VCU.

What makes you say this? I haven't seen anyone talk like that, let alone half the fan base.

Did you even read the link?

Ha! No, I hadn't. But now I have. It doesn't change my post, and I'm surprised that you think it would.

(03-29-2019 08:20 PM)Tank55 Wrote:  Purdue's in the Big 10. They can afford to run on autopilot, let their conference mates drive revenue, and be the noble underdog that puts it all together once every 40 years. They are in a strong, stable position. We are not. We're in an FCS football, one-bid/one-and-done basketball, academically worthless league. We can certainly argue over whether firing Shaver is a productive step toward improving our position, but we cannot use Purdue's situation as a useful tool to evaluate our own.

(03-29-2019 08:03 PM)UmbrellaRiver Wrote:  B/c half the fan base at W&M doesn’t understand sports and thinks we can just hire a magician and become a mid-major final four team like VCU.

What makes you say this? I haven't seen anyone talk like that, let alone half the fan base.

1- Well in Shaver’s 16 years has he ever had his six best returning players declare for transfer or early entry to the NBA draft? Of course not. So how can anyone logically concur that he was the reason the players decided to leave? There are 10+ posters on this board clinging to any ounce of a theory that Shaver was the reason for their decisions. Any logical person knows that the players who chose him during the recruiting process, (LJ - & Chase last year) (Milon & Loewe 2 years ago) (Knight & Pierce 3 years ago) would likely prefer to play for the coach they signed with; and the reason the’re now exploring transferring, as noted in some of their announcements, is that their Coach was fired.

2- I’ve heard fans mention big names like Thad Motta as a candidate. Um, no. We’re not good enough. And we’re so far away from increasing our resources to reach the levels of more consistent programs where Huge thinks we can be, it’s an apples to oranges conversation. JT3 = $3.4 million per year salary, Shaver = $300k. We’re not even close. Doubling the coach’s previous salary would get us to 1/5 of JT3’s last salary. It’s still not close. And of course there’s the academics...Not exactly sports friendly.

3- Our AD and at least two of our search committee members think we underachieved. Have you seen all the parody in college basketball these days? Coach Shaver was leading the conference in wins over the last six years, yet some see that as underachieving.

4- Finally, as preseason conference favorites next year, some people are defending our AD’s decision to break up the team, saying it was somehow necessary.

For those four reasons listed above, I think half of our fans know nothing about college sports. Keep in mind the illogical Huge defenders I referenced above are posting on a college sports blog. I would presume they know considerably more than the average W&M fan, some who six games into the season see a Chase Audige dunk and ask “who is that player?” Then there are the “fans” who never attend games, read or follow the team, and yet call themselves fans. So yes, I conclude at least half our fan base knows nothing about sports.

(03-29-2019 10:06 PM)UmbrellaRiver Wrote:  4- Finally, as preseason conference favorites next year, some people are defending our AD’s decision to break up the team, saying it was somehow necessary.

This is not a thing that's based in reality.

(03-29-2019 07:45 PM)nj alum Wrote:  One aspect of this situation that is receiving little attention is the fact that 16 years of continuous leadership, and what that means to a program, were blown up because the program was unable to go dancing.

How important is continuity?

Ask Purdue, where they haven’t been to a Final Four in 39 years, and have had only two coaches during that entire period:

https://amp.indystar.com/amp/3308608002?...ssion=true

W&M just threw away what Purdue has, and Purdue is a rare commodity in the area of continuity.

Why would we throw away something rare and unique ... just to chase fool’s gold?

Under this logic Purdue would never have forced out Keady even though he made the tourney once in his last 5 seasons. Painter's winning percentage at Purdue is .670, significantly higher than Shaver's. What are we talking about again?

(03-29-2019 08:03 PM)UmbrellaRiver Wrote:  3- Our AD and at least two of our search committee members think we underachieved. Have you seen all the parody in college basketball these days? Coach Shaver was leading the conference in wins over the last six years, yet some see that as underachieving.

Has a search committee (vs the advisory group) been announced? And if so, who are the two members you are referring to?

(03-29-2019 08:03 PM)UmbrellaRiver Wrote:  4- Finally, as preseason conference favorites next year, some people are defending our AD’s decision to break up the team, saying it was somehow necessary.

There were quite a few board posts before this announcement regarding our standing going into next year. There was definitely not a strong consensus that we would be #1. I happen to think we would have been (if all players returned) but it would have been very close.

(03-29-2019 08:03 PM)UmbrellaRiver Wrote:  For those four reasons listed above, I think half of our fans know nothing about college sports.

I’m trying to follow, but I don’t understand the connection between these 4 points and the claim that half of our fans know nothing about college sports. They don’t seem related, especially since from what it looks like from the outside, this decision has been panned by a majority of our fan base.





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I am a "Loyal Supporter of Tribe MBB since 1975" who suffered thru truly HORRIBLE Coaches and have been among the 50 fans at our one and done CAA tourney games almost every year, I can claim perspective on both the really GOOD and AWEFUL. Shaver did a tremendous job in resurrecting MBB and should have exited more graciously than how this happen and we owe him a lot. This is a fact.

It is also a fact that tweets from the current players show factions currently exist in player opinions about Shaver. Also a fact is we saw the 2016-17 plus 2018-19 teams not meet their protentional based on the vast majority of this Board- be honest with yourself on this and read your old posts. For those new to the Board, ask yourself if your love for Shaver is more important than your love for the College and MBB before you hit send.

We all, including me, had the hope that next year was our year. Huge is no fool and does not fire a coach without a reason and risk a career ending decision.

Having attended the game when we beat UNC at home, watched us open "the HALL" against UNC on 12/5/1970, saw us routinely fill most seats against good in state rivals then I can wish we can still be better than what we have been these past 16 years. Is it realistic, who knows. Is if fair that Shaver did not get the support he deserved-of course not.

The commitment to MBB by College leadership has been shameful for the last 30 years. We at least have a President and AD who clearly state this is a priority. I for one am willing to give them a chance and support their actions to accomplish these dreams. If they have failed over the next 5 years, then I will join the Indians on the warpath but for now will preach patience. The players and future coaches may be watching and when you hit send ask yourself if you would say to these two groups what you just typed.

(03-30-2019 12:11 AM)wmmii Wrote:  I am a "Loyal Supporter of Tribe MBB since 1975" who suffered thru truly HORRIBLE Coaches and have been among the 50 fans at our one and done CAA tourney games almost every year, I can claim perspective on both the really GOOD and AWEFUL. Shaver did a tremendous job in resurrecting MBB and should have exited more graciously than how this happen and we owe him a lot. This is a fact.

It is also a fact that tweets from the current players show factions currently exist in player opinions about Shaver. Also a fact is we saw the 2016-17 plus 2018-19 teams not meet their protentional based on the vast majority of this Board- be honest with yourself on this and read your old posts. For those new to the Board, ask yourself if your love for Shaver is more important than your love for the College and MBB before you hit send.

We all, including me, had the hope that next year was our year. Huge is no fool and does not fire a coach without a reason and risk a career ending decision.

Having attended the game when we beat UNC at home, watched us open "the HALL" against UNC on 12/5/1970, saw us routinely fill most seats against good in state rivals then I can wish we can still be better than what we have been these past 16 years. Is it realistic, who knows. Is if fair that Shaver did not get the support he deserved-of course not.

The commitment to MBB by College leadership has been shameful for the last 30 years. We at least have a President and AD who clearly state this is a priority. I for one am willing to give them a chance and support their actions to accomplish these dreams. If they have failed over the next 5 years, then I will join the Indians on the warpath but for now will preach patience. The players and future coaches may be watching and when you hit send ask yourself if you would say to these two groups what you just typed.

It is 2:30 am, I worked 16 hours today and I cannot sleep, and after 3 weeks of this back and forth I will no longer hold back. And I’m unfortunately sober. This post - like most of yours on this topic - are complete horse####. Have you paid any attention to the current college basketball landscape? Coaches at elite programs are going to jail. Duke - which once won national titles with four year players while competitors lost players early - has become king of the “one and done”. And in our own state, programs with far more resources and far more history - Richmond and George Mason - are struggling to compete.

For the last six years our underfunded program has won consistently amid this intolerable cesspool, without a scent of controversy. We’ve competed and won in a conference where we do not have a single academic peer, and all but two programs have a larger budget. We’ve competed and won despite facilities that were last considered modern before I was an itch in my father’s pants. We’ve competed and won despite having a school social life that compared unfavorably with convents and penitentiaries. And in an era where transfers are abundant, we have suffered very few defections.

And the way we have rewarded a staff that persisted and finally built a remarkable recruiting pipeline - I mean seriously - when I was at W&M, the thought of having 2-3 players with NBA chances was beyond absurd - is to fire the head coach. Three weeks later, one of our returning players has declared for the draft, and five others are considering a transfer. We owe our (hopefully enjoying the Caribbean) head coach 1.7M over the next five years. The salary we have to offer might have drawn interest from an elite candidate - in 1980. And our AD has been lambasted by every credible sportswriter and analyst that ever saw Shaver coach. Anyone who can’t see this dumpster fire is either willfully blind or too stupid to reason with. And anyone unwilling to state the obvious is simply delusional - or hopefully doing better things than ranting like this on a message board.

So sell crazy someplace else. We’re obviously all stocked up here.

I am obviously not a Huge fan from my posts on these threads. From what I can tell by piecing together information that I have it appears that:

1) Huge has been watching Tony and the team and was looking for an excuse to get rid of him
2) She took her chance when we lost to Delaware as she had no other real excuse to can him
3) She thought she had a coach lined up (and she still may)
4) There is some sort of money, somewhere, somehow that will pay for the buyout and fund the program to a different level.........but maybe this wasn't really there at all
5) She completely missed the boat about the fan reaction (this was admitted)
6) She completely missed the boat on the player reaction including the recruit
7) It appears that she can't stop the bleeding and the patient is dying on the table
8) She refuses to talk to the press about any of it

We either have a really savvy AD with a plan of attack that she's following, knowing that the coach is in hand, the money is in hand, and the players will be so swayed to stay; or we have an AD who is in way over her head and drowning. It's not something in the middle.