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wmmii Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Milon Potentially Leaving
(03-21-2019 12:09 AM)UmbrellaRiver Wrote:  I have so much respect for these young players. I wish them nothing but the best moving forward at new schools. They signed on to play for Shaver. Basketball is essentially the most important element of their lives. Losing the opportunity to play for the coach they committed to is perhaps the saddest part of this entire debacle. These players only have four years to maximize their performance. Having those years interrupted whilst a new AD makes a move that creates uncertainty isn’t what they signed up for, especially at an underdog school like W&M. An unexpected coaching change like this one basically introduces the recruiting process all over again for them to consider their best fit, relationship with coaching staff, coach’s system, etc. They could all decide to stay here. But if it were me, if I was in their shoes (and could dunk a basketball!), i’d maybe reevaluate some previous schools I’d been considering, see who expresses interest, and keep options open. Without a coach, and for each of the three players having performed well enough to be highly sought after by some really well-regarded programs, it’s not surprising to see them exploring the transfer market. I bet they’ll have fun watching the NCAA tourney this year, perhaps watching more closely than in years past. I think a new coaching hire could happen sooner than any of the players signing elsewhere, as it’s unlikely any of the 68 teams are recruiting during the actual tournament. And since we’re not hiring any coach from the tournament, lots of unemployed coaches are sitting around waiting for the phone to ring. I’d at least expect more progress to be made on the coaching search this week than the players will make looking at other schools.

Sure hope the AD and advisory committee is doing just this. Also as Tribeheart has reminded us members of the advisory committee read our Board so constructive feedback does have an ear.
03-21-2019 07:31 AM
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wmmii Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Milon Potentially Leaving
(03-21-2019 05:36 AM)ColonelEbirt Wrote:  In an early post when the Shaver news was breaking, I wrote that while I didn’t like the move, Huge obviously wants to win and she isn’t dumb, so she must have some high degree of confidence that the players aren’t going to leave. That theory seems to be unraveling quickly, though I understand the foolishness of my initial thought. The players wouldn’t come back if Huge hired some unknown doofus like me to coach, so it really all does depend on two things: 1) the new hire; 2) the camaraderie between the players (ie are they wrapping their arms around each other and saying they’re going to stick around for that last chance at the magical run together or are they fracturing and starting to look at things more individualistically in reaction to a firing decision that signals lack of loyalty and is diminishing trust with the school/admin).

I have zero knowledge of what’s going on with #2, but at least with #1, no one knows anything until the hiring decision is formally announced. So it’s hard to know where everyone ultimately ends up when the dust settles. But man, this is painful to see when we felt so much optimism just 10 (long) days ago and now the house seems to be falling apart one brick at a time.

New thought: I wonder if the players felt stung by the decision, not just bc of how Tony was treated (assuming they liked him ... again, I have no inside info on any of this) but bc that decision also suggests that the admin doesn’t have confidence that this team can get it done next year with Tony at the helm. Which, since Tony is clearly not a bad coach (plenty of debate on all the other threads about what he is, but clearly somewhere between neutral and terrific), that decision also could have slapped the players around a bit.

I’m encouraged that Chase made it clear that we are still one of his “top options” and JP felt the need to send his clarifying tweet (and Milon hasn’t said anything publicly) - neither of which needed to happen and wouldn’t happen if they were 100% out the door, so there’s a chance the team stays together.

While this seems awkward and potentially unprofessional, any chance Huge talks to JP, Chase, Matt, Nate, etc to find out what it would take for them to stay? I mean, she has to look at this with a multi-year lens, so she can’t put too much weight on the opinions of any one person / player, but I just don’t see how she could ever talk about the Shaver decision and make it look positive in any way for herself if the entire set of stars on the team (a team that all agree at least has a chance to achieve her stated goal) defect. So what does she do to salvage this situation and keep the team together?


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I also have zero inside knowledge and just try to be a good observer. This is well stated and make sense.

IMO having Rowley on the advisory committee provides a very good link to get opinions of the potentially returning players.
03-21-2019 07:40 AM
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WMTribe90 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Milon Potentially Leaving
(03-21-2019 12:46 AM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  Whenever there's a new coach, players consider transferring. It's perfectly reasonable to expect people to explore their options. We do that everyday in the work world. If there's a big change, you evaluate whether you want to stay where you are, or more to another job.

These kids are doing the same thing. They might stay. They might not. Up to them.

Your statement is true, which is why it was especially irresponsible to fire Shaver with what we had coming back on the roster and the momentum of the program over the last 6-8 yrs particularly. I do not blame the kids for exploring their options. I'd do the same in their shoes.

I might understand this decision if the team had underperformed next season and we were facing a rebuilding year anyway after Milon, JP and Knight finish their eligibility.
03-21-2019 07:50 AM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Milon Potentially Leaving
(03-21-2019 07:50 AM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  
(03-21-2019 12:46 AM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  Whenever there's a new coach, players consider transferring. It's perfectly reasonable to expect people to explore their options. We do that everyday in the work world. If there's a big change, you evaluate whether you want to stay where you are, or more to another job.

These kids are doing the same thing. They might stay. They might not. Up to them.

Your statement is true, which is why it was especially irresponsible to fire Shaver with what we had coming back on the roster and the momentum of the program over the last 6-8 yrs particularly. I do not blame the kids for exploring their options. I'd do the same in their shoes.

I might understand this decision if the team had underperformed next season and we were facing a rebuilding year anyway after Milon, JP and Knight finish their eligibility.
90, that pretty much sums up the thoughts from the don't fire Tony now camp. Keep Tony and his stud lineup for one season. If he fails, go ahead and let him go if that's what the AD wants to do. Don't fire coach assuming we could lose even one starter.

Only way to rebound is to hire a can't miss coach, retain our entire squad, and win the CAAT. No big deal.

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03-21-2019 07:58 AM
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ColonelEbirt Offline
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Post: #45
Milon Potentially Leaving
(03-21-2019 05:45 AM)ColonelEbirt Wrote:  
(03-21-2019 05:39 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  This Milon thread seems to be based "on a source told @Stadium". Who is @Stadium and how reliable is it. Milon has not said anything publicly to my knowledge so this appears to be based on a nameless source.

Actually, when you think of it, why would Milon want to go to a third college in five years?
He becomes nothing more than a college vagabond and I'm not sure Matt is that kind of individual.

I know we are in peril of losing guys but this seems a little sketchy.


It was retweeted by Quinn and Jihar, liked by JP, Jihar, and someone with the last name of Milon (presumably a family member), so the news is legit.


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Milon just retweeted the news, so consider it official (that he’s exploring transfer, not that it’s a done deal)


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03-21-2019 08:24 AM
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mrjoolius Offline
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Post: #46
Milon Potentially Leaving
Just my opinion, but if you tweet about possibly transferring, you are transferring. It's like the old NFL adage - if you are contemplating retirement, you are already retired.

Hopefully I'm wrong and the new coach blows the guys away. But, we need a coach. A coach to convince wide eyed 19 year olds that the grass isn't greener. Tick tock...
03-21-2019 08:29 AM
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Tribe2011 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Milon Potentially Leaving
(03-21-2019 08:29 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  Just my opinion, but if you tweet about possibly transferring, you are transferring. It's like the old NFL adage - if you are contemplating retirement, you are already retired.

Hopefully I'm wrong and the new coach blows the guys away. But, we need a coach. A coach to convince wide eyed 19 year olds that the grass isn't greener. Tick tock...

I think that's usually true, but the one situation where it might not be is where there's a legitimate new variable at play that they're waiting to see the result of. So entirely plausible some come back if they like the new coach, although we should assume they are all gone for sanity's sake.

But no one should be surprised by all of this - this is completely normal any time there's a coaching change. The moment you fire Shaver, you're basically giving up on the next few seasons and triggering a rebuild from the ground up (especially if the new coach has a system that differs from Shaver's). This was inevitable from the time that decision was made. One reason it didn't make sense to me not to at least wait and see what happens next year.

Also where on earth did this rumor start that Shaver was an unlikeable hardass facing a player revolt? He's always seemed like quite the player's coach to me, and the low rate of transfers during his tenure seems to back that up. Programs seem to average 1-2 transfers out a year these days, and we've been well below that mark.

That being said, it would make a lot of sense if Pierce was planning to explore transferring as a grad who doesn't have to sit out regardless. He'll be in a lot of high major demand, and could make a ton of money down the road in Europe by proving himself at the high major level for a year. Would be a completely normal decision, and would not suggest he was unhappy with Shaver.
03-21-2019 08:41 AM
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Tribewins Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Milon Potentially Leaving
These players were thrown a HUGE curveball last week. Can’t blame any of them for testing the transfer portal, especially Matt and JP who are graduating and can play immediately. I wouldn’t call Matt a college vegabond either. He’s a offensive only player/sharpshooter. What happens if we hire a defensive minded coach where Matt doesn’t fit in? Anyway, really tough last week+ for any Tribe fan. Bad situation, poorly handled, poor optics. How about Paul Rowley as new AD? Certainly can handle contracts, would have a better chance retaining current team, and his positive attitude would be infectious down through every sport for years to come. I’d sign on for that!
03-21-2019 09:07 AM
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Herm61 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Milon Potentially Leaving
Until a new coach is named EVERYONE is a potential transfer.
03-21-2019 09:19 AM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #50
Milon Potentially Leaving
DP Article but I'm not paying to read it

https://www.dailypress.com/sports/willia...ssion=true

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03-21-2019 09:45 AM
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Tribe2011 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Milon Potentially Leaving
(03-21-2019 09:45 AM)Tribal Wrote:  DP Article but I'm not paying to read it

https://www.dailypress.com/sports/willia...ssion=true

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Man the reporters "covering" this team are just abysmal.

"Also, Stadium’s Jeff Goodman tweeted Wednesday night that Tribe guard Matt Milon will explore a transfer. Milon, who began his college career at Boston College and played the last two seasons at William and Mary, would be a graduate transfer.

Milon had made no announcement on social media as of 10 p.m. Wednesday."


Isn't it your job to, I don't know, ask Milon directly and actually do some reporting?

You're not missing anything Tribal - all he did was quote the tweets we all saw and then add the players' stats.

In fact - has a single reporter writing about this situation actually added any value in terms of offering new information beyond what the school/players have released or tweeted? Would be nice if someone actually reported on what's actually going on below the surface here rather than lazily re-writing press releases.
03-21-2019 09:55 AM
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mrjoolius Offline
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Post: #52
Milon Potentially Leaving
Speaking on the laziness of reporters, Cole Harrison tweeted:
"A reporter just sent me a message request asking if I was going to consider transferring for my final year. She must've been on sabbatical all year"
03-21-2019 10:11 AM
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TribeInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Milon Potentially Leaving
(03-21-2019 10:11 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  Speaking on the laziness of reporters, Cole Harrison tweeted:
"A reporter just sent me a message request asking if I was going to consider transferring for my final year. She must've been on sabbatical all year"

Don't do it Cole! :)
03-21-2019 10:13 AM
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Blow Gym rat Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Milon Potentially Leaving
(03-21-2019 09:55 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  In fact - has a single reporter writing about this situation actually added any value in terms of offering new information beyond what the school/players have released or tweeted? Would be nice if someone actually reported on what's actually going on below the surface here rather than lazily re-writing press releases.

Teel from the DP spoke to Shaver's agent and, as far as I know, broke the news about the buyout provision in the contract. That was a pretty big addition to the conversation.

I would guess that players and athletic dept. staff (other than Pete Clawson) aren't saying nothing to nobody -- nor would I, in their (possibly uncomfortable at the moment) shoes.

Now, an anonymous informant a la Woodward and Bernstein would be another story ... if anybody with actual inside knowledge would like to volunteer, I'm sure Teel would take your call. (Don't use your work phone).
03-21-2019 10:14 AM
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TribeInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Milon Potentially Leaving
(03-21-2019 09:55 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  In fact - has a single reporter writing about this situation actually added any value in terms of offering new information beyond what the school/players have released or tweeted? Would be nice if someone actually reported on what's actually going on below the surface here rather than lazily re-writing press releases.

Nope. An alum friend of mine who has worked in sports journalism pointed out that even the tweet about who's interested in Pierce has no source. It could just be Justin sending a list of programs that liked his transfer tweet. There's no confirmation for anything or analysis of anything, including Shaver's firing. All that we've seen in those articles is the stats that support however that writer is feeling. Rocco's done a deeper dive into whether it's justified than any journalist to this point.
03-21-2019 10:17 AM
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TribeInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Milon Potentially Leaving
(03-21-2019 10:14 AM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  Teel from the DP spoke to Shaver's agent and, as far as I know, broke the news about the buyout provision in the contract. That was a pretty big addition to the conversation.

That's a good point. I guess there was at least some value add from Teel.
03-21-2019 10:18 AM
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A Quest Called Tribe Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Milon Potentially Leaving
(03-21-2019 08:41 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  Also where on earth did this rumor start that Shaver was an unlikeable hardass facing a player revolt? He's always seemed like quite the player's coach to me, and the low rate of transfers during his tenure seems to back that up. Programs seem to average 1-2 transfers out a year these days, and we've been well below that mark.

He played for Dean Smith. He's got a buttoned-up, conservative persona. He doesn't come off as the Pete Carroll- type, but maybe I'm completely wrong. Obviously many of his former players really respect him. I'm a fan of the old-school approach (and a lot of elite college coaches over the years have succeeded with that style) but I know it rubs some people the wrong way.

Either way, it doesn't matter because afaik people are just trying to read tea leaves in player motivation. Without any real substance they're just full of, shall we say, baloney. And as you rightly point out, transfers were never much of a problem under Shaver.
03-21-2019 10:22 AM
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mrjoolius Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Milon Potentially Leaving
(03-21-2019 10:17 AM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  
(03-21-2019 09:55 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  In fact - has a single reporter writing about this situation actually added any value in terms of offering new information beyond what the school/players have released or tweeted? Would be nice if someone actually reported on what's actually going on below the surface here rather than lazily re-writing press releases.

Nope. An alum friend of mine who has worked in sports journalism pointed out that even the tweet about who's interested in Pierce has no source. It could just be Justin sending a list of programs that liked his transfer tweet. There's no confirmation for anything or analysis of anything, including Shaver's firing. All that we've seen in those articles is the stats that support however that writer is feeling. Rocco's done a deeper dive into whether it's justified than any journalist to this point.
It's those darn fake news journalists at it again.
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2019 10:24 AM by mrjoolius.)
03-21-2019 10:22 AM
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TribeInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Milon Potentially Leaving
(03-21-2019 08:41 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  Also where on earth did this rumor start that Shaver was an unlikeable hardass facing a player revolt? He's always seemed like quite the player's coach to me, and the low rate of transfers during his tenure seems to back that up. Programs seem to average 1-2 transfers out a year these days, and we've been well below that mark.

I think that's overstating the case a little bit, but people that sit close to the bench in games reported that players seemed to tune him out in the huddle. They weren't surprised by some of the transfers because it seemed like those players weren't interested in what Coach Shaver was selling.

My theory, made of whole cloth, is that Huge looked at Coach Shaver as a coach that was losing his team and that there wasn't going to be a next year with the current team. This wasn't in the press release because it reflects poorly on Shaver for getting his next job and the players who would come off as entitled/spoiled/etc. Again, I have nothing to back this up aside from my own feelings.
03-21-2019 10:27 AM
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nj alum Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Milon Potentially Leaving
(03-21-2019 10:17 AM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  
(03-21-2019 09:55 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  In fact - has a single reporter writing about this situation actually added any value in terms of offering new information beyond what the school/players have released or tweeted? Would be nice if someone actually reported on what's actually going on below the surface here rather than lazily re-writing press releases.

Nope. An alum friend of mine who has worked in sports journalism pointed out that even the tweet about who's interested in Pierce has no source. It could just be Justin sending a list of programs that liked his transfer tweet. There's no confirmation for anything or analysis of anything, including Shaver's firing. All that we've seen in those articles is the stats that support however that writer is feeling. Rocco's done a deeper dive into whether it's justified than any journalist to this point.

Your alum friend needs to look at tweets from 3/15 and 3/16:

eff Borzello
@jeffborzello
·
Mar 15
William & Mary forward Justin Pierce tells ESPN he will be graduating and transferring for his final season.

Two-time all-CAA performer. Averaged 14.9 points, 8.9 rebounds and 4.1 assists this season.

ff Borzello
@jeffborzello
·
Mar 16
Schools to reach out to William & Mary grad transfer Justin Pierce:

Texas, Florida, Michigan, Zags, Arizona, Ohio St, Wiscy, Notre Dame, USC, Nevada, NC State, VTech, Purdue, KState, TCU, Stanford, Xavier, Ole Miss, Creighton, Butler, Illinois, Utah, GTech, DePaul, N’Western, BC

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeffborzello?....167098%2F
03-21-2019 10:31 AM
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