The narrative that Huge somehow saw transfers coming is simply not true. The transfers are reactionary to the firing of Tony, these are his and Holmes guys.

Completely agree that this is due to Shaver leaving. My coach left my sport after my junior year, and trust me it sucked. We had loyalty to him and had very good teams. New guy shows up, he's totally different and things went sideways quickly. This was a long time ago and everyone was mostly walk ons so no real reason to transfer, but people did quit.

(03-21-2019 01:01 AM)WMtribe17 Wrote:  Looks like I was wrong in thinking Huge would get 2 years if she botched this hire and we lose players... At this rate, if the hire sucks and we lose Knight, Pierce, Milon, and Audige, she may not make it 6 months.

So we have to buy her out too?

(03-21-2019 01:01 AM)WMtribe17 Wrote:  Looks like I was wrong in thinking Huge would get 2 years if she botched this hire and we lose players... At this rate, if the hire sucks and we lose Knight, Pierce, Milon, and Audige, she may not make it 6 months.

How long is Huge’s contract?

(03-21-2019 03:23 AM)Tribfan Wrote:  The narrative that Huge somehow saw transfers coming is simply not true. The transfers are reactionary to the firing of Tony, these are his and Holmes guys.

LOL. When a coach gets fired, it’s common that players transfer. She knew this would happen.

(03-21-2019 06:52 AM)TribePride52 Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 03:23 AM)Tribfan Wrote:  The narrative that Huge somehow saw transfers coming is simply not true. The transfers are reactionary to the firing of Tony, these are his and Holmes guys.

LOL. When a coach gets fired, it’s common that players transfer. She knew this would happen.

If this is the case, this makes her actions even more reprehensible. Not sure what her end game was supposed to be if what you’re saying is true. It would really be a no win situation.

(03-21-2019 07:51 AM)88tribefan Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 06:52 AM)TribePride52 Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 03:23 AM)Tribfan Wrote:  The narrative that Huge somehow saw transfers coming is simply not true. The transfers are reactionary to the firing of Tony, these are his and Holmes guys.

LOL. When a coach gets fired, it’s common that players transfer. She knew this would happen.

If this is the case, this makes her actions even more reprehensible. Not sure what her end game was supposed to be if what you’re saying is true. It would really be a no win situation.

If I'm reading the tea leaves right, the theory is that Huge is looking at a run of transfers (this year, Malinowski, Whitman) as a trend. It's better for the coach and the program if they publicly point to the NCAA Tournament as the reason for moving on. The hope from the administration was that firing Coach Shaver might keep some of the players from transferring, and the next coach might be able to steady the ship.

I don't know if that is right. The only "source" is hinting by other posters here. But if that's the case, Huge was trying to make the best of a no-win situation.

(03-21-2019 10:09 AM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  If I'm reading the tea leaves right, the theory is that Huge is looking at a run of transfers (this year, Malinowski, Whitman) as a trend.

It is not a trend or a run if half of the moves you reference happen AFTER the firing. The appearance is certainly that the firing may cause the transfers, not the other way around. The only evidence put forward for a possible transfer is Pierce's highlight video -- and it is possible that all that proves is that Pierce is proud of his achievements.

Justin also put out a video of his sophomore highlights as soon as last season ended. I wouldn't consider the timing of this year's video release an indication that he planned to leave the program prior to Shaver's termination. Not saying he was or wasn't considering a move, just that the timing of the video shouldn't be used as evidence.

Sent from my SM-G950U using CSNbbs mobile app

There is still one immensely logical and rational way this can all be averted still and give W&M massive positive publicity. But, it would require a huge amount of humility, kindness, and forgiveness not often seen in college sports. Do that and you reward J. Holmes and start a groundswell of positive hysteria. The answer is right in front of us. We didn't understand the culture and commitment from the team because we were new. Not even sure Tony would still do it. But, we have( and won't get) any negative comments from him. It is the only rational possibility to truly save 2020. It probably is also the only way to save donations for the very near future as well, but that is an individual or family choice for each alum.

Still no negative action or comment to JP, Chase, or any other players. We caused this, they did not. They came here to play for Coach Shaver and Coach Holmes. Expecting anything other than what is happening is irrational.

Reverse course, admit a mistake, ask for forgiveness and heap praise on the guys in that locker room. Thank all of them for their committment to the school, to the coaches and their teammates and watch what happens next. Unless this irritates the one major donor that must be running the show. If that is the true narrative, Tribe sports in going down either way.

(03-21-2019 10:09 AM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 07:51 AM)88tribefan Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 06:52 AM)TribePride52 Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 03:23 AM)Tribfan Wrote:  The narrative that Huge somehow saw transfers coming is simply not true. The transfers are reactionary to the firing of Tony, these are his and Holmes guys.

LOL. When a coach gets fired, it’s common that players transfer. She knew this would happen.

If this is the case, this makes her actions even more reprehensible. Not sure what her end game was supposed to be if what you’re saying is true. It would really be a no win situation.

If I'm reading the tea leaves right, the theory is that Huge is looking at a run of transfers (this year, Malinowski, Whitman) as a trend. It's better for the coach and the program if they publicly point to the NCAA Tournament as the reason for moving on. The hope from the administration was that firing Coach Shaver might keep some of the players from transferring, and the next coach might be able to steady the ship.

I don't know if that is right. The only "source" is hinting by other posters here. But if that's the case, Huge was trying to make the best of a no-win situation.

Whitman knew he’d struggle for PT behind Nathan and he’d already graduated, one guy transferred because he was in the doghouse for a DUI. Maybe you can lay Greg on Tony, but that’s it there is no trend of good players transferring under Shaver.

I would endorse hiring Holmes on a show-me type deal. It would go a long way in healing recent wounds. I don't think he is what Huge is envisioning though, and for him to be the choice I think her other options have fallen through.

(03-21-2019 01:06 PM)Tribfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 10:09 AM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 07:51 AM)88tribefan Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 06:52 AM)TribePride52 Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 03:23 AM)Tribfan Wrote:  The narrative that Huge somehow saw transfers coming is simply not true. The transfers are reactionary to the firing of Tony, these are his and Holmes guys.

LOL. When a coach gets fired, it’s common that players transfer. She knew this would happen.

If this is the case, this makes her actions even more reprehensible. Not sure what her end game was supposed to be if what you’re saying is true. It would really be a no win situation.

If I'm reading the tea leaves right, the theory is that Huge is looking at a run of transfers (this year, Malinowski, Whitman) as a trend. It's better for the coach and the program if they publicly point to the NCAA Tournament as the reason for moving on. The hope from the administration was that firing Coach Shaver might keep some of the players from transferring, and the next coach might be able to steady the ship.

I don't know if that is right. The only "source" is hinting by other posters here. But if that's the case, Huge was trying to make the best of a no-win situation.

Whitman knew he’d struggle for PT behind Nathan and he’d already graduated, one guy transferred because he was in the doghouse for a DUI. Maybe you can lay Greg on Tony, but that’s it there is no trend of good players transferring under Shaver.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg was going to lose his starting job as well with Milon and Pierce coming on strong. In addition, I understand Greg wanted to transfer to Georgetown because of academic programs offered there that were not available at W&M and, he got an additional year on scholarship, I believe.

(03-21-2019 01:06 PM)Tribfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 10:09 AM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 07:51 AM)88tribefan Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 06:52 AM)TribePride52 Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 03:23 AM)Tribfan Wrote:  The narrative that Huge somehow saw transfers coming is simply not true. The transfers are reactionary to the firing of Tony, these are his and Holmes guys.

LOL. When a coach gets fired, it’s common that players transfer. She knew this would happen.

If this is the case, this makes her actions even more reprehensible. Not sure what her end game was supposed to be if what you’re saying is true. It would really be a no win situation.

If I'm reading the tea leaves right, the theory is that Huge is looking at a run of transfers (this year, Malinowski, Whitman) as a trend. It's better for the coach and the program if they publicly point to the NCAA Tournament as the reason for moving on. The hope from the administration was that firing Coach Shaver might keep some of the players from transferring, and the next coach might be able to steady the ship.

I don't know if that is right. The only "source" is hinting by other posters here. But if that's the case, Huge was trying to make the best of a no-win situation.

Whitman knew he’d struggle for PT behind Nathan and he’d already graduated, one guy transferred because he was in the doghouse for a DUI. Maybe you can lay Greg on Tony, but that’s it there is no trend of good players transferring under Shaver.

Greg, too, had effectively lost his starting role to some combination of the entry of Milon and the ascendance of Burchfield and Pierce (although there were a few games we started Knight, Pierce and Rowley together). He rightfully figured that if he wasn't going to a featured player here, P5s would be glad to have him in their rotation, and he found a great fit in Georgetown (close to home) that allowed him to become a more consistent player.

I don't think we had a legitimate starter transfer since Calvin Baker, which is a testament to Tony (and no, you'll never convince me anyone was planning to leave even before he was canned).

(03-21-2019 02:25 PM)FauqDawg10 Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 01:06 PM)Tribfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 10:09 AM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 07:51 AM)88tribefan Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 06:52 AM)TribePride52 Wrote:  LOL. When a coach gets fired, it’s common that players transfer. She knew this would happen.

If this is the case, this makes her actions even more reprehensible. Not sure what her end game was supposed to be if what you’re saying is true. It would really be a no win situation.

If I'm reading the tea leaves right, the theory is that Huge is looking at a run of transfers (this year, Malinowski, Whitman) as a trend. It's better for the coach and the program if they publicly point to the NCAA Tournament as the reason for moving on. The hope from the administration was that firing Coach Shaver might keep some of the players from transferring, and the next coach might be able to steady the ship.

I don't know if that is right. The only "source" is hinting by other posters here. But if that's the case, Huge was trying to make the best of a no-win situation.

Whitman knew he’d struggle for PT behind Nathan and he’d already graduated, one guy transferred because he was in the doghouse for a DUI. Maybe you can lay Greg on Tony, but that’s it there is no trend of good players transferring under Shaver.

Greg, too, had effectively lost his starting role to some combination of the entry of Milon and the ascendance of Burchfield and Pierce (although there were a few games we started Knight, Pierce and Rowley together). He rightfully figured that if he wasn't going to a featured player here, P5s would be glad to have him in their rotation, and he found a great fit in Georgetown (close to home) that allowed him to become a more consistent player.

I don't think we had a legitimate starter transfer since Calvin Baker, which is a testament to Tony (and no, you'll never convince me anyone was planning to leave even before he was canned).

Not sure how you define "legitimate starter" but Whitman started 26 games when he transferred.

(03-21-2019 02:30 PM)Rocco Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 02:25 PM)FauqDawg10 Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 01:06 PM)Tribfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 10:09 AM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 07:51 AM)88tribefan Wrote:  If this is the case, this makes her actions even more reprehensible. Not sure what her end game was supposed to be if what you’re saying is true. It would really be a no win situation.

If I'm reading the tea leaves right, the theory is that Huge is looking at a run of transfers (this year, Malinowski, Whitman) as a trend. It's better for the coach and the program if they publicly point to the NCAA Tournament as the reason for moving on. The hope from the administration was that firing Coach Shaver might keep some of the players from transferring, and the next coach might be able to steady the ship.

I don't know if that is right. The only "source" is hinting by other posters here. But if that's the case, Huge was trying to make the best of a no-win situation.

Whitman knew he’d struggle for PT behind Nathan and he’d already graduated, one guy transferred because he was in the doghouse for a DUI. Maybe you can lay Greg on Tony, but that’s it there is no trend of good players transferring under Shaver.

Greg, too, had effectively lost his starting role to some combination of the entry of Milon and the ascendance of Burchfield and Pierce (although there were a few games we started Knight, Pierce and Rowley together). He rightfully figured that if he wasn't going to a featured player here, P5s would be glad to have him in their rotation, and he found a great fit in Georgetown (close to home) that allowed him to become a more consistent player.

I don't think we had a legitimate starter transfer since Calvin Baker, which is a testament to Tony (and no, you'll never convince me anyone was planning to leave even before he was canned).

Not sure how you define "legitimate starter" but Whitman started 26 games when he transferred.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But Jack was not going to start any games the next year, Nathan is just too good.

Well, in fairness, I think Jack and Greg might have at least begun the year as starters.

Ok, so presuming that we lay all the transfers in 16-17 at Tony's feet(I don't buy it at all), the next year, the Tribe was predicted like 8th and we definitely overachieved. In fact, when Paul hit that three with about 7-8 minutes to go we were very much in the game(down 1) with 75% of the building pulling for Charleston. That is a major plus. Then, this year, we have 5 new faces plus JP, Matt and Paul dealing with injuries for a decent portion of the nonconference. The staff and team manage to pull things together and rally to 4th which is one spot lower than the preseason predictions. But, we have a horrific half in Charleston and lose to Delaware. That becomes unforgivable and leads to the "old way didn't work".

Since it only matters that we win on those 3 days, we have to hire Bill Coen. Their fan base will be disgruntled at his inability to beat Kansas and let him go. Then, we use the 3-4 million we have hidden and hire him. He can use his frustration to help us beat Northeastern in the semis next year as the main rival we will have. Following that, W&M will lose in the finals to Elon.

This is how it is.

(03-20-2019 07:50 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I've said it before. Both Huge and Rowe are rookies in their positions. Firsts for both. Rookies make mistakes. Let's see how they clean it up.

I disagree. When you are a rookie, and making a significant decision, you should consider all potential implications and, if the risks are uncertain or too significant, take a conservative approach.

In this case, let's look at the calculus. Milon, Pierce, and Knight are gone after next year. Chase is a freshman.

If you keep Tony, and have a bad season with the returning roster, you have stronger grounds to terminate.

If you keep Tony, and he makes the tournament, you only have four more seasons under his contract, and with the albatross gone, you likely see a greater uptick in revenue and recruiting.

In other words, keeping Tony has no real downside, absent evidence that returning players intended to transfer.

But if you fire Tony, you face the following risks: (1) a mass exodus; (2) a fan outcry; (3) making a bad hire; (4) getting turned down by your leading candidates; (5) losing existing, signed recruits; (6) getting crucified in the press; and (7) hiring a coach that recruits more like Boyages - players that are small but slow.

Huge weighed the risks and opted for hubris. I agree with Tribal that unless there are material, significant facts we do not know that cast a bad light on Tony, the move was self-serving and intended to position Huge to take credit for "transformational" leadership.

The only way to reward this approach is by imposing on her the consequences of poor judgment. If these players depart, and the program goes into a tailspin, she should be terminated. She's been here two years, more than enough time to recognize that W&M is not Texas A&M. Maybe next time we will hire an AD who could have gained admission to W&M as an undergraduate ...

(03-21-2019 04:24 PM)TribePride91 Wrote:  Since it only matters that we win on those 3 days, we have to hire Bill Coen. Their fan base will be disgruntled at his inability to beat Kansas and let him go. Then, we use the 3-4 million we have hidden and hire him. He can use his frustration to help us beat Northeastern in the semis next year as the main rival we will have. Following that, W&M will lose in the finals to Elon.

I'm on board for Coen. He's a much better game coach than Shaver was, and based on Mr J's posts, went after largely the same players we did.

Edit: Today's results notwithstanding. Also, that's my impression from watching his teams play us once or twice a year. Northeastern might have the same feelings about Shaver.