So, does every kid on the roster at:

Stanford
Duke
Northwestern
Vanderbilt
Notre Dame
UCLA
Georgetown
Cal
USC
UVA
Michigan
Wake Forest
UNC
Ga Tech
Florida
Boston College

Meet our entrance standards? If not why not? These schools are all ranked ahead of us in the latest US News college rankings. If they take kids we “can’t” then what the hell are we even doing in D-I basketball.

Some of them may recruit student athletes who've never even played the sport for some Facebook stock!

:-)

It's all corrupt!

Can't fire a coach because he can't lead us to the the Dance of the Corrupted.

Probably not? Many of those schools are an awful lot bigger than we are and a single student or even a basketball team's worth of students is a drop in the bucket. For us the basketball team is .2% of our enrollment (using 12 players and 6000 students as ballparks).

Florida is ranked ahead of us? That's depressing.

(03-20-2019 06:24 PM)Tank55 Wrote:  Florida is ranked ahead of us? That's depressing.

More or less than USC?

(03-20-2019 05:14 PM)Tribester Wrote:  So, does every kid on the roster at:

Stanford
Duke
Northwestern
Vanderbilt
Notre Dame
UCLA
Georgetown
Cal
USC
UVA
Michigan
Wake Forest
UNC
Ga Tech
Florida
Boston College

Meet our entrance standards? If not why not? These schools are all ranked ahead of us in the latest US News college rankings. If they take kids we “can’t” then what the hell are we even doing in D-I basketball.

Those are all Power 5 schools with budgets that allow them to recruit nationally. Definitely apples and oranges.

Maybe better comparisons would be to the Ivies and Davidson. You think Harvard's budget and Davidson's budget might dwarf ours by a little bit?

The College has not been committed to MBB from the mid-70s until maybe the last year (if then).

I am sure we can impress prospective scholar-athletes with our impressive practice facilities and private jets for transportation to and from Boston/NY.

For MBB to compete, we need our budget to expand in addition to a multi-sport practice facility and a new or renovated Kaplan. I hope Huge knows where the money is coming from.

I’ve always heard that we can’t recruit some kids because of their academics. My point was if the same kid can get an admission waiver to play at Georgetown/UVA/UNC but not at W&M why the hell not. People don’t think a degree from Duke or UNC is lessened just because of the kids on the football or basketball team. Why do we have such a ridiculous standard that limits who our coach can recruit when Coach K or Roy Williams recruit unrestricted?

from the internet:

Quote:Duke average GPA: 3.13
Stanford average GPA: 3.46

Duke average SAT: 968
Stanford average SAT: 1123

So you can see, there’s a substantial difference. Duke’s admissions are actually closer to those of the heathens ? in Chapel Hill than to Stanford’s:

North Carolina average GPA: 2.84
Duke average GPA: 3.13

North Carolina average SAT: 915
Duke average SAT: 968

I'm pretty sure W&M is not taking any athletes with SAT scores in the 800s.

FWIW I believe our football team is up around 1150 or so.

Georgetown:

Quote:The 12 Thompson recruits who entered Georgetown as freshmen from 1993 through 1996 and took the Scholastic Assessment Test had an average score of 821, according to NCAA statistics released this summer. (SAT scores range from 400 to 1,600.)

This compares with an average of 944 for men's basketball players at all private NCAA institutions.

I read this article about the WCC and it's new commissioner, Gloria Navarez, this morning. Lots of relevant points on how to build a conference's (and its member schools') basketball awareness through scheduling initiatives, branding, etc.

https://theathletic.com/877504/2019/03/2...-barriers/

The CAA needs a commissioner with initiative and forward thinking like Ms. Navarez. It baffles me the conference doesn't have similar guidelines with respect to scheduling already in place. Even the Southern conference instituted guidelines like this and you can see how it has paid off for them.

There is also some relevant info about academics vs athletics. I thought this quote from the Loyola Marymount president hits the nail on the head, and should give pause to all of those on this board who say things have to be done "the William and Mary." That way hasn't worked so well for men's basketball. It's time to change things up.

Snyder previously worked for over 30 years at various universities on the East Coast before coming to Loyola Marymount.

“Here, we don’t have these battles about academics versus athletics, which are some of the silliest battles being waged on America’s college campuses,” Snyder said. “When athletics rises, the renown of the institution rises, which pulls the academics forward. When the academics succeed, the power of the alumni has a greater impact on the world, which helps athletics succeed. This group of presidents understand that all we do is intertwined.”

I think Rowe feels the same way as the LMU president.

Not that long ago,that attitude would’ve gotten her lynched by the liberal arts faculty. Times have changed, I guess.

Sort of like it had to take someone like Nixon to go to China

What's UVA's entrance requirements for basketball? Surely still higher than Iverson-era Georgetown.

(03-21-2019 05:33 PM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  Not that long ago,that attitude would’ve gotten her lynched by the liberal arts faculty. Times have changed, I guess.

I hope you’re right. There are way too many people floating around Wm and Mary thinking their s..t’s ice cream. Let’s get real. We need players who can get thru as opposed to scholars who have some kind of game.

(03-20-2019 11:44 PM)Tribester Wrote:  I’ve always heard that we can’t recruit some kids because of their academics. My point was if the same kid can get an admission waiver to play at Georgetown/UVA/UNC but not at W&M why the hell not. People don’t think a degree from Duke or UNC is lessened just because of the kids on the football or basketball team. Why do we have such a ridiculous standard that limits who our coach can recruit when Coach K or Roy Williams recruit unrestricted?

I don’t see the point in rooting for kids to represent my institution if they haven’t earned their way in on their merits. I’d rather lose with real W&M kids than win with ringers who just wear the jersey.

But I don’t mean to begrudge anyone’s opinion on the topic. There are a lot of shades of gray.

(03-24-2019 04:59 PM)FauqDawg10 Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 11:44 PM)Tribester Wrote:  I’ve always heard that we can’t recruit some kids because of their academics. My point was if the same kid can get an admission waiver to play at Georgetown/UVA/UNC but not at W&M why the hell not. People don’t think a degree from Duke or UNC is lessened just because of the kids on the football or basketball team. Why do we have such a ridiculous standard that limits who our coach can recruit when Coach K or Roy Williams recruit unrestricted?

I don’t see the point in rooting for kids to represent my institution if they haven’t earned their way in on their merits. I’d rather lose with real W&M kids than win with ringers who just wear the jersey.

But I don’t mean to begrudge anyone’s opinion on the topic. There are a lot of shades of gray.

I guess my only thought is what is a W&M kid? Every kid that is accepted brings certain talents to the university. If kids are failing out or not graduating than perhaps there is a problem. As far as I can tell, that isn't the case.

(03-24-2019 04:59 PM)FauqDawg10 Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 11:44 PM)Tribester Wrote:  I’ve always heard that we can’t recruit some kids because of their academics. My point was if the same kid can get an admission waiver to play at Georgetown/UVA/UNC but not at W&M why the hell not. People don’t think a degree from Duke or UNC is lessened just because of the kids on the football or basketball team. Why do we have such a ridiculous standard that limits who our coach can recruit when Coach K or Roy Williams recruit unrestricted?

I don’t see the point in rooting for kids to represent my institution if they haven’t earned their way in on their merits. I’d rather lose with real W&M kids than win with ringers who just wear the jersey.

But I don’t mean to begrudge anyone’s opinion on the topic. There are a lot of shades of gray.

100% agree!

(03-24-2019 05:28 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 04:59 PM)FauqDawg10 Wrote:  I don’t see the point in rooting for kids to represent my institution if they haven’t earned their way in on their merits. I’d rather lose with real W&M kids than win with ringers who just wear the jersey.

But I don’t mean to begrudge anyone’s opinion on the topic. There are a lot of shades of gray.

I guess my only thought is what is a W&M kid? Every kid that is accepted brings certain talents to the university. If kids are failing out or not graduating than perhaps there is a problem. As far as I can tell, that isn't the case.

I don't know enough to be able to analyze the full picture; I guess I'd just be focused on the admissions standards first. I suppose the first that they've been sticklers over players we might have liked to bring on in past years would be a good sign. From what I can observe, which is the players I knew when I was on campus and the great track record Tony had of making sure our guys graduated and stayed out of trouble, I never had any reason to believe the standard I described wasn't being met. Unlike Duke/UNC/Stanford etc. we've never had a player who didn't need a good job after they were done playing basketball.

I don't think that anyone is advocating for admitting applicants who are not capable of graduating. I do think some are pushing for a more holistic view on admissions -- the goal should be to bring in a freshman class that can add the most value to the College, which does not always necessarily translate to the 1,500 highest scoring SATs we can grab.

If, what a previous poster had mentioned before is true -- that is, W&M President Katherine Rowe sees qualifying for the NCAAT as a top priority, I don't see how she (Rowe) doesn't allow the athletics department to (at least slightly) lower academic standards to make that happen.

Obviously not drastically, but enough to make us even more competitive with our CAA compatriots.