Quite an interesting read and perspective on the financial aspects of VCU MBB's program growth:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2019/03/18/...-four-run/

Good info.

Anybody know how much our student fees are for athletics?

I think this is the most important part of the article with respect to W&M. I've said it before, but basketball needs to be the marquee program in the W&M athletic department. It makes no sense to focus resources on an FCS football program.

Basketball’s rising tide floats all ships

Through it all, after the Final Four appearance and the move to the A-10, VCU Athletics earned its way into the black after years of operating at a loss.


Every year since 2013, the department’s has on paper posted a profit.

From 2009 to 2012, its final years in the CAA, VCU Athletics’ overall expenses were greater than its revenue. But every year since 2013, the department’s has on paper posted a profit, with at least $700,000 more in revenue than expenses.

Men’s basketball considerably props up the entire department.

The numbers shared by VCU Athletics’ financials are broken down by men’s basketball, women’s basketball, men’s baseball and “all other sports.”

Men’s basketball generated $8.5 million in revenue in FY 2017, with all other sports generating $222,000. The next highest was men’s baseball, with $63,000.

Men’s basketball generated 1,151 percent more revenue in FY 2017 than it did in FY 2010 ($738,000). All other sports, including women’s basketball and men’s baseball, generated 55 percent more revenue in FY 2017 than in FY 2010.

The success of the men’s basketball team helps subsidize the other programs, and Cupps said it’s not just the revenue men’s basketball brings in – it’s the visibility as well.

“At a 1-AAA (college) like VCU, (men’s basketball) has the ability to provide resources that benefit all of our other sports. We have seen that dramatically here based on our ticket sales, donations and multimedia sponsorship sales,” he said. “Visibility and revenue, those are the engines to provide resources for our programs.”

Yes, but ......

VCU accomplished that with a Final 4 run followed by 7 other NCAA appearances in 8 years -- and they are just recently in the black. The graphs show that VCU's expenses have gone up just as quickly as their revenues (imagine that). In fact, their student fees have continued to go up despite the fact of so much other revenue coming in (as contrasted to Tech whose increased revenue has allowed them to lower student fees dramatically (yes, from football, but the principal is the same)).

What happens to VCU if/when they fail to make the dance for 3-4 years in a row and the A-10 also has down years (so less conference mates are bringing in shares,too)? Then their large expenses will put them in the red. Is their success sustainable?

(03-21-2019 11:33 AM)Zorch Wrote:  Yes, but ......

VCU accomplished that with a Final 4 run followed by 7 other NCAA appearances in 8 years -- and they are just recently in the black. The graphs show that VCU's expenses have gone up just as quickly as their revenues (imagine that). In fact, their student fees have continued to go up despite the fact of so much other revenue coming in (as contrasted to Tech whose increased revenue has allowed them to lower student fees dramatically (yes, from football, but the principal is the same)).

What happens to VCU if/when they fail to make the dance for 3-4 years in a row and the A-10 also has down years (so less conference mates are bringing in shares,too)? Then their large expenses will put them in the red. Is their success sustainable?

So are you saying W&M shouldn't even try and should just accept their current position in the college basketball pecking order? That's the attitude that has been at W&M for way too long.

Regarding the rise in expenses, college athletics are set up so that expenses will always rise in line with revenue. They are corporations that don't have to share revenue with the talent, and because they are nonprofits they have no incentive to make a profit to pay the shareholders. As a result, everything is plowed back into the programs via facilities, athletic department personnel, coaches salaries, etc. That's why, despite the huge revenue numbers at P5 schools, almost all of them show zero profit.

(03-21-2019 01:11 PM)Old tribe Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 11:33 AM)Zorch Wrote:  Yes, but ......

VCU accomplished that with a Final 4 run followed by 7 other NCAA appearances in 8 years -- and they are just recently in the black. The graphs show that VCU's expenses have gone up just as quickly as their revenues (imagine that). In fact, their student fees have continued to go up despite the fact of so much other revenue coming in (as contrasted to Tech whose increased revenue has allowed them to lower student fees dramatically (yes, from football, but the principal is the same)).

What happens to VCU if/when they fail to make the dance for 3-4 years in a row and the A-10 also has down years (so less conference mates are bringing in shares,too)? Then their large expenses will put them in the red. Is their success sustainable?

So are you saying W&M shouldn't even try and should just accept their current position in the college basketball pecking order? That's the attitude that has been at W&M for way too long.

Regarding the rise in expenses, college athletics are set up so that expenses will always rise in line with revenue. They are corporations that don't have to share revenue with the talent, and because they are nonprofits they have no incentive to make a profit to pay the shareholders. As a result, everything is plowed back into the programs via facilities, athletic department personnel, coaches salaries, etc. That's why, despite the huge revenue numbers at P5 schools, almost all of them show zero profit.

No, I am not saying that we should not try; I am saying that we should try within the bounds of who we are. To me, at our level, I would be ecstatic if we made the dance once every 4-5 years and to go more often would be gravy. Right now I don't think a single VCU fan would settle for that. I don't want W&M falling into that morass of unreasonable expectations. Yes, I think Shaver was getting us to the point of reaching the dance with the reasonable expectation of not having to wait 81 years until the next one.

Re expenses: my point was what do you do when the revenue stream dries up but you still have to pay for the facilities and salaries? It becomes imperative that you have to win (dance) every single year. I think that it is unreasonable to expect that from a school at our level.