(03-20-2019 02:02 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 01:58 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the thing that is interesting about CBSSN is 6 years ago, when they got the Big East and AAC sublicenses, I really thought that they had a shot to make something there- especially with the A10 there as well.... But things really never got going with them at all for whatever reason....

Because CBSSports used to be College Sports Network. The channel usually showed mostly FCS, D2 and D3 games before CBS bought them out. CBSSports is not on the basic lineup in many areas, and is not in every tv in many areas. You have to buy an extra sports package to get it.

It used to be CSTV and the MWC signed with them in 2004 being the first conference to sign with an unknown entity. The deal was about $1.3 million per school which was a lot of money back then. I remember when the ACC had the highest TV payout per school at $12 million.

(03-20-2019 01:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 01:17 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 01:00 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 12:57 PM)MU88 Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 11:04 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Marquette's run stuck with the Big East schools- as did all the C7 runs that year. Of those 18 units, 7 went to the C7 schools and ND. So 11 is the number the AAC is targeting....

Under NCAA rules, unless a conference disbands, the units stayed with the conference, not the schools.

The leagues came up with an agreement where the C7 units stuck with them...... Part of the divorce agreement. Now, the AAC may get paid for them, but the AAC then confers that money to the Big East.

Correct. The NCAA probably does actually send the credit money to the AAC (the successor to the Big East) and then the AAC has to pay them out to the Big East per the agreed upon divorce decree.

Memory is unreliable, and was not based on rock-solid sourcing, but I've seen someone argue using tax forms from the conferences or schools that the Big East distributions look like we're not getting the C7 credits (implying that they were part of the price of the Big East name, MSG contract and IP).

I do believe that multiple sources familiar with the pre-nup agreed that the credits were to be the property of the side or faction that earned them. But the issue of the name was not addressed in the pre-nup, and the exit fees and left-behind credits were definitely up in the air.

Correct. I know speculation at the time of the split and subsequent articles indicated the BE schools retained their units. However, if you look at the tax records, specifically, for the 2014 year, it does not appear the C7 received any monies for its BE earned units. In 2014, the BE received $4 million from the NCAA, which lines up with the grants the conference received outside of the units. (Grants in add, payments for sports offered, financial aid, etc.) The BE tax return lists no income from any third parties. So, no direct payment from the AAC. Where did the revenue go? Put it this way, Marquette alone had 15 units in 2014, which would have translated to roughly $3.75 million. According to the NCAA, it distributed over $1 million alone in grants in aid to the BE in 2014. If the BE was receiving the money for its units, the number should have been significantly higher than the $4 million identified on their 2014 tax form.

(03-20-2019 01:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 01:17 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 01:00 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 12:57 PM)MU88 Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 11:04 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Marquette's run stuck with the Big East schools- as did all the C7 runs that year. Of those 18 units, 7 went to the C7 schools and ND. So 11 is the number the AAC is targeting....

Under NCAA rules, unless a conference disbands, the units stayed with the conference, not the schools.

The leagues came up with an agreement where the C7 units stuck with them...... Part of the divorce agreement. Now, the AAC may get paid for them, but the AAC then confers that money to the Big East.

Correct. The NCAA probably does actually send the credit money to the AAC (the successor to the Big East) and then the AAC has to pay them out to the Big East per the agreed upon divorce decree.

Memory is unreliable, and was not based on rock-solid sourcing, but I've seen someone argue using tax forms from the conferences or schools that the Big East distributions look like we're not getting the C7 credits (implying that they were part of the price of the Big East name, MSG contract and IP).

I do believe that multiple sources familiar with the pre-nup agreed that the credits were to be the property of the side or faction that earned them. But the issue of the name was not addressed in the pre-nup, and the exit fees and left-behind credits were definitely up in the air.

I may be wrong but I think Fox offered the Beast a smaller contract initially but they wanted the Big east name so they raised the contract amount basically the difference of the NCAA tournament credits this making their contract close to 5 million while letting the credits pay for the exit fees and name. So the Big east basically had their original contract amount worded so it seemed like they actually
received more while being made whole on afterwards a clean break. Now I don't know how the actual wording was for NCAA purposes.

(03-20-2019 02:11 PM)usffan Wrote:  Seeing all of the people talking about CBSSN and TruTV begs the question - do you guys realize that CBS doesn't own TruTV? It's owned by Turner. Turner has all of the cable broadcasting rights to the NCAA tournament, not CBS. So there wasn't an option to put the tournament on CBSSN.

Feel free to go back to your already predetermined opinions about the AAC.

I was mildly impressed.

(03-20-2019 10:36 AM)MU88 Wrote:  Looking at the tax records, NCAA units, etc. It looks like the conference will have about $50 million extra to distribute each year from, e.g., 2017. The conference will earn about $60 more in media money as compared to 2017 according to tax records, but lose about $10-11 million this year in revenue from NCAA tourney units as compared to 2017 with the BE credits continuing to drop off. It will drop a bit more next year too, unless a couple teams have nice runs in this year's tourney (the conference earn 18 units in 2013 due to Louisville's title and Marquette's elite 8 appearance). So, each school, on average, will receive an extra $4 million or so per year over their 2017 income. Should help the budgets a bit a some schools. Not sure it is going to make much of a dent in the finances at a place like UConn.

The American makes about $20M per year from the football playoff.

Averaging about 4 units per year * $1.7M = about $7M per year in basketball tournament money.

Add $83M per year in TV.

There will be some miscellaneous revenue from the football title game and basketball tournament, maybe $3M total.

Add it up and the American will collect about $113M per year. Assume $10M in conference expenses.

$103M to the members or $8.5M per year total.

(03-20-2019 02:11 PM)usffan Wrote:  Seeing all of the people talking about CBSSN and TruTV begs the question - do you guys realize that CBS doesn't own TruTV? It's owned by Turner. Turner has all of the cable broadcasting rights to the NCAA tournament, not CBS. So there wasn't an option to put the tournament on CBSSN.

CBS and Turner split the package. I'm not up to date on all the details, but they nonetheless put in a joint bid.

If CBS really wanted to get some games on their sports network then they could have worked to negotiate the deal differently.

Reality is you can't find much of anything worth watching on CBSSN regardless of the season or the sport.

(03-20-2019 02:58 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Reality is you can't find much of anything worth watching on CBSSN regardless of the season or the sport.

I don't understand some trying to dump on CBSSN in this thread. I watch college football on it all the time in the fall, and hoops in the winter.

Reality is, CBSSN has a lot more exposure right now than ESPN+. It's not close.

(03-20-2019 02:58 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 02:11 PM)usffan Wrote:  Seeing all of the people talking about CBSSN and TruTV begs the question - do you guys realize that CBS doesn't own TruTV? It's owned by Turner. Turner has all of the cable broadcasting rights to the NCAA tournament, not CBS. So there wasn't an option to put the tournament on CBSSN.

CBS and Turner split the package. I'm not up to date on all the details, but they nonetheless put in a joint bid.

If CBS really wanted to get some games on their sports network then they could have worked to negotiate the deal differently.

Reality is you can't find much of anything worth watching on CBSSN regardless of the season or the sport.

Yes, they put in a joint bid. CBS to air the OTA rights, Turner to air the cable rights. Not sure it was an option for CBSSN. If CBS wanted, they could have used their own additional networks (Pop, AXS, Showtime, etc.).

USFFan

(03-20-2019 02:58 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 02:11 PM)usffan Wrote:  Seeing all of the people talking about CBSSN and TruTV begs the question - do you guys realize that CBS doesn't own TruTV? It's owned by Turner. Turner has all of the cable broadcasting rights to the NCAA tournament, not CBS. So there wasn't an option to put the tournament on CBSSN.

CBS and Turner split the package. I'm not up to date on all the details, but they nonetheless put in a joint bid.

If CBS really wanted to get some games on their sports network then they could have worked to negotiate the deal differently.

Reality is you can't find much of anything worth watching on CBSSN regardless of the season or the sport.

I’ve watched CBS Basketball Insider plus C-USA and MWC games and it’s not that bad. It’s easy to find, especially if you have YouTube TV. I think NBC Sports is worse, it’s like they don’t even try. Other than rugby, there’s nothing interesting on that channel.

(03-20-2019 02:03 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Thats fair. There was a price paid for the Big East name. I know the left behind NCAA credits from other members were left to the AAC. The exit fees were as well. I also remember that the total left behind was around 100 million....so its entirely possible that a portion of the future C7 credits were included to reach that 100 million total (lol...frankly, too much math and too many unknowns to be entirely sure).

At the time of the split, the Big East (AAC) had $110 million in various credits, exit fees paid by Rutgers, UofL, etc.. The deal that was brokered was that the C7 would get $10m of that, plus the Big East name, and the rights to MSG for its tournament, whereas the AAC schools would get $100m, with USF/UConn/Cincy getting the lion's share of that:

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story...ing-report

(03-20-2019 03:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Reality is, CBSSN has a lot more exposure right now than ESPN+. It's not close.

True. But ESPN+ will allow schools more control over start times for their weaker football/basketball inventory. Very important.

(03-20-2019 07:54 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  We had this ironed out back in July when I said AAC would sign early, see more games online, and get no more than $8 million per team and no less than $5 million per.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-852681-post-15...id15367881

I guess you nailed it because as someone pointed out earlier if you throw in an annual increase of 3-5 percent that the first year would be 5 million and the last year close to 8 million.

(03-20-2019 02:11 PM)usffan Wrote:  Quo was going to point out the Big East's superiority to it ....

FWIW, I haven't compared it to the Big East deal. But if you want me to, I will - it is for more money so it is a better deal than the Big East deal. Of course that was pretty inevitable given that AAC has football. It was astonishing that for the past seven years, the Big East was getting more for just hoops than the AAC was getting for hoops and football, but that is now ended.

It will almost surely keep UConn from thinking of moving to the Big East.

(03-20-2019 03:14 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 03:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Reality is, CBSSN has a lot more exposure right now than ESPN+. It's not close.

True. But ESPN+ will allow schools more control over start times for their weaker football/basketball inventory. Very important.

The way advertising is sold now it's not about who has the biggest subscriber base. It's about who has the biggest active audience. Podcasts have way smaller audience than broadcast radio, but their fan base is more engaged and easily targeted. That's the mindset ESPN's national sales managers will be moving with.

CSBSN is on 50 million cable/sat subscriptions, but if only 100k people tune in at any given time it is less viable to an advertiser than 20k active viewers for ESPN+

(03-20-2019 03:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 02:58 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Reality is you can't find much of anything worth watching on CBSSN regardless of the season or the sport.

I don't understand some trying to dump on CBSSN in this thread. I watch college football on it all the time in the fall, and hoops in the winter.

Reality is, CBSSN has a lot more exposure right now than ESPN+. It's not close.

Yeah, but were you tuning in to watch the AAC or did you view the channel as a destination? There's a big difference. How many non-AAC fans migrated over to CBSSN to see football or basketball?

The only time I even bothered to check the network on Saturdays was to see if there was a late game on. Consider that I'm unusual(insert joke here) even in that as most people I know don't watch nearly as much college football as I do.

The average fan of these sports is just not watching that network. They're going to see what's on ESPN or their related networks and then FS1, and the vast majority won't give a thought to anything else.

It's like Wedge said earlier, if a good number of people were watching that network with any consistency then Nielson would be rating them.

It also needs to be restated (since it conveniently gets omitted) that the $11MM/year/team deal that the Big East 'turned down' was a deal that included Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Louisville and Rutgers, plus included all of the Big East basketball and the tournament in MSG. Does anybody really think the contract wouldn't have had membership clauses that would have been triggered when Syracuse and Pittsburgh announced they were leaving for the ACC? Or that either school would have stayed in the Big East if they'd been offered an ACC slot regardless of whether they'd signed that deal? So it's not like that money was likely ever going to be seen by USF, Cincinnati or UConn...

USFFan

(03-20-2019 03:14 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 03:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Reality is, CBSSN has a lot more exposure right now than ESPN+. It's not close.

True. But ESPN+ will allow schools more control over start times for their weaker football/basketball inventory. Very important.

Yes, because ESPN+ works basically like ESPN3, multiple live games simultaneously to choose from instead of 1 channel with 1 game. Not a great platform for marquee games but good for baseball, Olympic sports, etc. ESPN is looking for content to load up their subscription channel, the inventory will grow.

(03-20-2019 03:14 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 03:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Reality is, CBSSN has a lot more exposure right now than ESPN+. It's not close.

True. But ESPN+ will allow schools more control over start times for their weaker football/basketball inventory. Very important.

And thank God! We won't be forced into as many noon kickoffs on hot September Saturdays.

USFFan

(03-20-2019 03:20 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 02:11 PM)usffan Wrote:  Quo was going to point out the Big East's superiority to it ....

FWIW, I haven't compared it to the Big East deal. But if you want me to, I will - it is for more money so it is a better deal than the Big East deal. Of course that was pretty inevitable given that AAC has football. It was astonishing that for the past seven years, the Big East was getting more for just hoops than the AAC was getting for hoops and football, but that is now ended.

It will almost surely keep UConn from thinking of moving to the Big East.

The "it" in my post was the AAC (not the AAC's broadcast rights), but I think your assessment is pretty much spot on. And I also think you're correct about UConn and the Big East, though @NoEscalators has been apoplectic since the contract came out.

USFFan

(03-20-2019 03:23 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 03:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 02:58 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Reality is you can't find much of anything worth watching on CBSSN regardless of the season or the sport.

I don't understand some trying to dump on CBSSN in this thread. I watch college football on it all the time in the fall, and hoops in the winter.

Reality is, CBSSN has a lot more exposure right now than ESPN+. It's not close.

Yeah, but were you tuning in to watch the AAC or did you view the channel as a destination? There's a big difference. How many non-AAC fans migrated over to CBSSN to see football or basketball?

The only time I even bothered to check the network on Saturdays was to see if there was a late game on. Consider that I'm unusual(insert joke here) even in that as most people I know don't watch nearly as much college football as I do.

The average fan of these sports is just not watching that network. They're going to see what's on ESPN or their related networks and then FS1, and the vast majority won't give a thought to anything else.

It's like Wedge said earlier, if a good number of people were watching that network with any consistency then Nielson would be rating them.

Look, you're an Alabama fan, so you live in rareified air. All the games you are interested in are on CBS or ABC or ESPN. Alabama doesn't play games on CBSSN or FS1.

But for me, I saw plenty of G5 action on CBSSN. It's a CBS-owned HD cable channel, excellent production values, easy to find and available to tens of millions.