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W&M President Rowe's Comments on Basketball at Alumni Reception
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wmmii Offline
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Post: #61
RE: W&M President Rowe's Comments on Basketball at Alumni Reception
Esteem in academics can only attract donations from certain alumni while success in making the NCAA MBB tourney gives you visibility to a another group of alumni and public. The arguments in this thread ignore these fact and treat them as mutually exclusive.

When our team made the semifinals in football in 2004 we saw a packed stadium, money that poured in to put up lights and then the Laycock Center. The same result would likely occur when we go DANCING..

I have been in the "Hall" with sold out MBB crowds and years of average attendance much higher than today. Yes the students and community will come out when the product is good BUT Huge also needs to invest in proper promotion and scheduling.

That is the way it should be.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2019 10:59 AM by wmmii.)
03-15-2019 10:58 AM
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TDenverFan Online
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Post: #62
RE: W&M President Rowe's Comments on Basketball at Alumni Reception
(03-15-2019 10:58 AM)wmmii Wrote:  Esteem in academics can only attract donations from certain alumni while success in making the NCAA MBB tourney gives you visibility to a another group of alumni and public. The arguments in this thread ignore these fact and treat them as mutually exclusive.

When our team made the semifinals in football in 2004 we saw a packed stadium, money that poured in to put up lights and then the Laycock Center. The same result would likely occur when we go DANCING..

I have been in the "Hall" with sold out MBB crowds and years of average attendance much higher than today. Yes the students and community will come out when the product is good BUT Huge also needs to invest in proper promotion and scheduling.

That is the way it should be.

I think marketing/scheduling has gotten better under Huge. Lack of a Charter Day game is a bummer, but I don't think that's her fault. 2 A10 teams at home, including George Mason, Gotham classic, just 1 D3 game, etc. I think there was better on campus promotion of the teams/games, though that's purely anecdotal.
03-15-2019 11:06 AM
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soccerguy315 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: W&M President Rowe's Comments on Basketball at Alumni Reception
(03-15-2019 09:55 AM)Zorch Wrote:  
(03-15-2019 01:59 AM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  W&M is slowly dropping down the national rankings, and something must be done or we will be outside the top 50 in the next 20 years.

If investing in athletics is the way to keep us there, let's go.

So, a slip in academic standing can be fixed by prioritizing athletics? How has that worked out for Alabama's academic profile?

What do you think would have a bigger impact on our school right now. An additional $1M per year invested in academics? Or in the MBB program?

I believe the MBB would get the school much greater return. I would've liked to see this $1.7M invested into the basketball program under Shaver.

I also believe the medical school partnership would've been good for W&M, but that seems to have fallen off the radar. Guess it didn't work for whatever reason.

I love W&M, but successful sports expose our school to an entirely different audience. More eyes on our school = better.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2019 02:21 AM by soccerguy315.)
03-16-2019 01:44 AM
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Tribe2011 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: W&M President Rowe's Comments on Basketball at Alumni Reception
(03-16-2019 01:44 AM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  
(03-15-2019 09:55 AM)Zorch Wrote:  
(03-15-2019 01:59 AM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  W&M is slowly dropping down the national rankings, and something must be done or we will be outside the top 50 in the next 20 years.

If investing in athletics is the way to keep us there, let's go.

So, a slip in academic standing can be fixed by prioritizing athletics? How has that worked out for Alabama's academic profile?

What do you think would have a bigger impact on our school right now. An additional $1M per year invested in academics? Or in the MBB program?

I believe the MBB would get the school much greater return. I would've liked to see this $1.7M invested into the basketball program under Shaver.

I also believe the medical school partnership would've been good for W&M, but that seems to have fallen off the radar. Guess it didn't work for whatever reason.

I love W&M, but successful sports expose our school to an entirely different audience. More eyes on our school = better.

This hits it on the head. It's the VALUE of an investment in the basketball program that makes it worth it. If investing the same amount of money on professors or lowering tuition would have the same effect, I would be 100% in favor of doing that. But it's an INVESTMENT not just a contribution -- it will lead to far greater resources than what we put in flowing to all areas of the school, making us much stronger.

Also on the Alabama comp - there is no question that Alabama has benefitted enormously from their football program. It probably practically doubles their applicant pool, and I'd bet it doubles their fundraising as well (at least).

Lastly - I find it amazing that many on here are now arguing that we SHOULDN'T be supporting our sports programs -- the exact opposite of the position of nearly everyone before this past week -- solely out of spite for Huge. I disagree completely with the Shaver decision, but I think it's revealing that many seem to be much more driven by their hate for Huge than support for WM. To be clear, if this moves works out (a big IF), that would be a GREAT thing for our school. I too would be sad that it wasn't Shaver that took us to the tourney and the next level, but the goal is that we get there. Yet you have many people now practically acting like they WANT WM to fail just so they can say they were right and continue to hold a grudge. Don't be like this.
03-16-2019 09:49 AM
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wmmii Offline
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Post: #65
RE: W&M President Rowe's Comments on Basketball at Alumni Reception
(03-16-2019 09:49 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  Lastly - I find it amazing that many on here are now arguing that we SHOULDN'T be supporting our sports programs -- the exact opposite of the position of nearly everyone before this past week -- solely out of spite for Huge. I disagree completely with the Shaver decision, but I think it's revealing that many seem to be much more driven by their hate for Huge than support for WM. To be clear, if this moves works out (a big IF), that would be a GREAT thing for our school. I too would be sad that it wasn't Shaver that took us to the tourney and the next level, but the goal is that we get there. Yet you have many people now practically acting like they WANT WM to fail just so they can say they were right and continue to hold a grudge. Don't be like this.

Well stated. I feel all of us think Shaver not being retained could have been handled better but the reaction is over the top. We do not even know who the new coach will be at this time for MBB yet! Also we have not heard the report started last fall about a new or rehab BB arena ...
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2019 10:57 AM by wmmii.)
03-16-2019 10:08 AM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #66
RE: W&M President Rowe's Comments on Basketball at Alumni Reception
(03-16-2019 09:49 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  If investing the same amount of money on professors or lowering tuition would have the same effect, I would be 100% in favor of doing that. But it's an INVESTMENT not just a contribution

Value? Investment? Last I heard, we aren't "investing" $1.7M in professors not to teach.
03-16-2019 10:50 AM
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Tribe1693 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: W&M President Rowe's Comments on Basketball at Alumni Reception
(03-16-2019 10:08 AM)wmmii Wrote:  
(03-16-2019 09:49 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  Lastly - I find it amazing that many on here are now arguing that we SHOULDN'T be supporting our sports programs -- the exact opposite of the position of nearly everyone before this past week -- solely out of spite for Huge. I disagree completely with the Shaver decision, but I think it's revealing that many seem to be much more driven by their hate for Huge than support for WM. To be clear, if this moves works out (a big IF), that would be a GREAT thing for our school. I too would be sad that it wasn't Shaver that took us to the tourney and the next level, but the goal is that we get there. Yet you have many people now practically acting like they WANT WM to fail just so they can say they were right and continue to hold a grudge. Don't be like this.

Well stated. I feel all of us think Shaver not being retained could have been handled better but the reaction is over the top. We do not even know who the new coach will be at this time for MBB yet! Also we all seem to have forgotten that we have not heard what the report from the study about a new or rehab BB arena started last fall...

From my perspective only, I do not speak for anyone else, this is not a Shaver thing for me. If nothing else had happened and simply Shaver was let go, I would have disliked it but wouldn't be nearly as frustrated - not angry - as I am. I give a little bit to the basketball program but substantially more to other areas of athletics.

For me it has been building over the last year or so. I have liked some of Huge's decisions. I like the effort to have an athletic department wide deal with UA. I personally prefer Nike, but I realize my personal preference means zilch and Nike either does not or would not do a school-wide deal for a school of our size. That was great. I like that we were able to secure a game at Stanford due to her personal relationship with the AD there.

But I also am frustrated with many other decisions - many of which have already been hashed out here in probably other threads that are too numerous to rehash. If I recall from when Huge was first introduced, she made some comments about listening and observing for the first year, and by all accounts she appeared to do that - kudos to her. However, the last year or so has brought about (again my opinion) too much rapid and financially costly change. As someone who donates a decent amount of money - at least I think so - I don't like how the current leadership appears to be spending money. I have had the opportunity to meet her on one occasion and felt indifferent after meeting her - not inspired nor disillusioned.

Do I "hate" Samantha Huge? I absolutely do not.

Do I think she has shown in the last year or so that she may be in over her head or has a background where athletic recognition at any cost is ok? Possibly - hence all the outside consultants and changes.

Do I think (with hindsight) we made a mistake in hiring her? Yes, I do but unless there is something egregious in this process I don't anticipate her going anywhere.

Do I wish the search committee that hired her spoke to alums/donors at other schools she worked? Yep. (And maybe they did but I can't imagine they spoke to people who I have had contact with about her time at Delaware)

Do I feel that my donations have been used not as intended? No, I absolutely believe in and have the utmost respect for Bobby Dwyer and his team, but I also feel that I need to take a long pause before I decide if I want to continue to support this path that we have been on. I don't want to hurt any of our student athletes by not contributing but I also have a tough time continuing to support a path that I can't buy into.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2019 11:35 AM by Tribe1693.)
03-16-2019 11:10 AM
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wmmii Offline
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Post: #68
RE: W&M President Rowe's Comments on Basketball at Alumni Reception
(03-16-2019 11:10 AM)Tribe1693 Wrote:  
(03-16-2019 10:08 AM)wmmii Wrote:  
(03-16-2019 09:49 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  Lastly - I find it amazing that many on here are now arguing that we SHOULDN'T be supporting our sports programs -- the exact opposite of the position of nearly everyone before this past week -- solely out of spite for Huge. I disagree completely with the Shaver decision, but I think it's revealing that many seem to be much more driven by their hate for Huge than support for WM. To be clear, if this moves works out (a big IF), that would be a GREAT thing for our school. I too would be sad that it wasn't Shaver that took us to the tourney and the next level, but the goal is that we get there. Yet you have many people now practically acting like they WANT WM to fail just so they can say they were right and continue to hold a grudge. Don't be like this.

Well stated. I feel all of us think Shaver not being retained could have been handled better but the reaction is over the top. We do not even know who the new coach will be at this time for MBB yet! Also we all seem to have forgotten that we have not heard what the report from the study about a new or rehab BB arena started last fall...

From my perspective only, I do not speak for anyone else, this is not a Shaver thing for me. If nothing else had happened and simply Shaver was let go, I would have disliked it but wouldn't be nearly as frustrated - not angry - as I am. I give a little bit to the basketball program but substantially more to other areas of athletics.

For me it has been building over the last year or so. I have liked some of Huge's decisions. I like the effort to have an athletic department wide deal with UA. I personally prefer Nike, but I realize my personal preference means zilch and Nike either does not or would not do a school-wide deal for a school of our size. That was great. I like that we were able to secure a game at Stanford due to her personal relationship with the AD there.

But I also am frustrated with many other decisions - many of which have already been hashed out here in probably other threads that are too numerous to rehash. If I recall from when Huge was first introduced, she made some comments about listening and observing for the first year, and by all accounts she appeared to do that - kudos to her. However, the last year or so has brought about (again my opinion) too much rapid and financially costly change. As someone who donates a decent amount of money - at least I think so - I don't like how the current leadership appears to be spending money. I have had the opportunity to meet her on one occasion and felt indifferent after meeting her - not inspired nor disillusioned.

Do I "hate" Samantha Huge? I absolutely do not.

Do I think she has shown in the last year or so that she may be in over her head or has a background where athletic recognition at any cost is ok? Possibly - hence all the outside consultants and changes.

Do I think (with hindsight) we made a mistake in hiring her? Yes, I do but unless there is something egregious in this process I don't anticipate her going anywhere.

Do I wish the search committee that hired her spoke to alums/donors at other schools she worked? Yep. (And maybe they did but I can't imagine they spoke to people who I have had contact with about her time at Delaware)

Do I feel that my donations have been used not as intended? No, I absolutely believe in and have the utmost respect for Bobby Dwyer and his team, but I also feel that I need to take a long pause before I decide if I want to continue to support this path that we have been on. I don't want to hurt any of our student athletes by not contributing but I also have a tough time continuing to support a path that I can't buy into.

Well stated and thoughtful, I am not too far away from your situation with the exception of MBB being my passion and i am willing to give Huge more room for errors in judgment and execution. We should all be sent to "time out" for 3 weeks and then revisit our opinions.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2019 11:46 AM by wmmii.)
03-16-2019 11:43 AM
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