(03-17-2019 09:24 AM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  I'm very appreciative of where the program is now and that Coach Shaver is mostly responsible for that. However, the other half of having the best teams in the history of the school is that he couldn't get any of the best teams in the history of W&M to the NCAA tournament. In a nutshell, that sums up his strengths and weaknesses. If there's something else going on (hinted by various posters) in addition to that, it's not unreasonable for the administration to think it was time to try a new coach. If dirty laundry behind the scenes contributed to the decision, then it's to the administration's credit that it's stayed unaired. I think it's great to heap praise on Coach Shaver for everything he did for us. I also think it's a good idea to reserve judgment on the AD at least until the new coach is hired and any player movement is complete.

Agreed. If Huge hires a terrible coach and more players leave because of it, then I will join the riot... pitchfork in hand

(03-17-2019 09:24 AM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  I'm very appreciative of where the program is now and that Coach Shaver is mostly responsible for that. However, the other half of having the best teams in the history of the school is that he couldn't get any of the best teams in the history of W&M to the NCAA tournament. In a nutshell, that sums up his strengths and weaknesses. If there's something else going on (hinted by various posters) in addition to that, it's not unreasonable for the administration to think it was time to try a new coach. If dirty laundry behind the scenes contributed to the decision, then it's to the administration's credit that it's stayed unaired. I think it's great to heap praise on Coach Shaver for everything he did for us. I also think it's a good idea to reserve judgment on the AD at least until the new coach is hired and any player movement is complete.

The Venn Diagram of "posters who want W&M to be ambitious and not settle for the status quo" and "posters outraged over W&M being ambitious and not settling for the status quo" are two circles with 98% overlap.

(03-16-2019 05:31 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(03-16-2019 04:16 PM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  

(03-16-2019 03:38 PM)Tribe1693 Wrote:  John Feinstein CBS Sports Minute on Tony Shaver:

https://omny.fm/shows/cbs-sports-minute/...-tony-shav

(Apologies if this was posted already. Too many threads to keep track of.)

I was expecting more. Feinstein didn't add anything to the conversation or show that he had much insight. He didn't even get the AD's name right.

Edit: Not to say I'm not a fan of Feinstein. I think he does good work. I also think that this instance is not an example of that.

CBS Sports Minute is just that, a minute. It's purpose is to provide an opinion, not insight.

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Feinstein is yet to apologize for his misreading of the Duke lacrosse fiasco.

Flat Hat

http://flathatnews.com/2019/03/18/commen...ms-future/

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"That trio of players, rising seniors, were arguably the best class the men’s basketball program has seen in a long time. "

The 2019-20 team returns 13.1 win shares. The 2016-17 team returned 14.1 Win Shares. The 2015-16 team returned 16.3 Win Shares.

Top W&M players by Win Shares, 1995- present:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla...rder_by=ws

In 2014-15 the #2, #4, #6 and #10 players on that list were present. The 2016-17 team had the #2, #5 (a freshman, to be fair), #9 and #10. The 2009-10 team had #1, #8 and #17.

Knight's currently 5th, Pierce 16th, Milon 35th. Yeah, there's talent coming back, but we've been here before, and other teams in the CAA are bringing back more talent. W&M making the tourney next year with Shaver at the helm wasn't a two foot putt.

I have always maintained that 2013-2014 with Marcus, Rusthoven, Prewitt, Tarpey, Gaillard, Britt, Boatner, Dixon and Sheldon is the most *talented* team we've had in my lifetime (and it was plain to see), although it wasn't the best *performing.* This team, including Pierce, would've been a close second.

Agree that although it was the best shot in years, calling us the favorite was premature. NE has Roland, Gresham, Occeus, Brace, Murphy, Boursiquot and Eboigbodin and was in line to be favored again even with Pierce, and Delaware and Charleston will be highly competitive as well.

(03-19-2019 01:43 PM)FauqDawg10 Wrote:  I have always maintained that 2013-2014 with Marcus, Rusthoven, Prewitt, Tarpey, Gaillard, Britt, Boatner, Dixon and Sheldon is the most *talented* team we've had in my lifetime (and it was plain to see), although it wasn't the best *performing.* This team, including Pierce, would've been a close second.

Agree that although it was the best shot in years, calling us the favorite was premature. NE has Roland, Gresham, Occeus, Brace, Murphy, Boursiquot and Eboigbodin and was in line to be favored again even with Pierce, and Delaware and Charleston will be highly competitive as well.

That 2013-14 team struggled out of the gate (I believe Britt was suspended at the start of the season) but started putting it together down the stretch. They won six of nine to close out the regular season and then finally figured out Towson in the semis.

Thornton was first team all-CAA, Omar was rookie of the year, and Rusthoven was second-team all-CAA. If there was a team over the last 20 years that was going to punch their ticket, they were it. Nobody needs reminding how close they got.

I wonder if the previous AD gave Shaver this lengthy contract to make it less likely that a new AD and president would let him go and pay such a large buyout.
This buyout is unprecedented for our athletic dept.

DP article on Shaver's firing with some good quotes from Daniel Dixon in it. I'm so thankful for Coach Shaver.

https://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-spt...story.html

(03-19-2019 03:21 PM)DSL Wrote:  I wonder if the previous AD gave Shaver this lengthy contract to make it less likely that a new AD and president would let him go and pay such a large buyout.
This buyout is unprecedented for our athletic dept.

I've been thinking this since the buyout was announced. It's certainly not Huge's fault Tony was signed to such a contract.

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(03-19-2019 04:40 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(03-19-2019 03:21 PM)DSL Wrote:  I wonder if the previous AD gave Shaver this lengthy contract to make it less likely that a new AD and president would let him go and pay such a large buyout.
This buyout is unprecedented for our athletic dept.

I've been thinking this since the buyout was announced. It's certainly not Huge's fault Tony was signed to such a contract.

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I'm sure there's a clause in Tony's contract that altered the length of terms based on achieving some milestone(s). It's not unusual to see built in monetary bonuses, non-monetary packages (i.e. car), or automatic extensions if the coach wins a tournament, wins so many games, or whatever. If our former AD convinced Tony to sign a lengthy contract and added the extras, it was probably an attempt to keep Shaver from jumping ship. I wonder if there's a buyout clause should Tony have broken the contract.

If Tony broke contract without cause, he owed a year’s salary.

In response to several above posts, JL had the same language as Tony in case school terminated. Difference obviously is the JL retired and was at end of contract (cough cough).

I should also throw this out there. It was in Tony’s contract.

Tony had scheduling autonomy, subject to AD approval re: schedule. He had to use reasonable efforts to generate $200,000 in away game revenues. I will look to see whether the contract also called for him to use reasonable efforts to make the Dance (cough cough).

Here’s the kicker, and will drive all of us donors crazy.

Re: away game revenue greater than $200,000, guess how much of the amount greater than $200,000 was credited to men’s hoops annual budget?

25%

Perhaps the issue was that he didn’t generate enough away game revenue to support programs other than his own?

And then to have his coaching record thrown in his face when he was obligated to schedule several road losses per year for economic reasons ... not nice, right? That might be my topic for tomorrow.

God bless Tony Shaver for enduring this for 16 years!

Nope, nothing about making reasonable efforts to make the Dance.

Just an incentive bonus.

Post the contract, please.

P5 away game revenue is $60-$80K per, so the 2 P5 away games and 2 A10 away games and we’re north of $200K each year. P5 away games also give us much needed exposure to recruits. Just stating facts.

Revenue sharing amongst sports occurs at every school. Football/basketball carries every sport at D1 level. Donors know this going in. Don’t like it, don’t donate. The end result will be dismissal of all sports not football/basketball, it’s that simple.

It’s also why P5 conferences rarely kick out the perennial weak team(s). They insure wins for the power teams to go to bowl games/NCAA Tourney, etc and in turn the power teams share revenue from bowl games, NCAA tourney with the weak teams.

(03-19-2019 06:30 PM)Tank55 Wrote:  Post the contract, please.

Guess NJ Alumni must want to control the narrative since he avoids posting it...……..

(03-19-2019 09:04 PM)Tribewins Wrote:  P5 away game revenue is $60-$80K per, so the 2 P5 away games and 2 A10 away games and we’re north of $200K each year. P5 away games also give us much needed exposure to recruits. Just stating facts.

Revenue sharing amongst sports occurs at every school. Football/basketball carries every sport at D1 level. Donors know this going in. Don’t like it, don’t donate. The end result will be dismissal of all sports not football/basketball, it’s that simple.

It’s also why P5 conferences rarely kick out the perennial weak team(s). They insure wins for the power teams to go to bowl games/NCAA Tourney, etc and in turn the power teams share revenue from bowl games, NCAA tourney with the weak teams.

I bet the football team would prefer to not have a guaranteed loss every year so the athletic department can make their budget. This year they've got two paycheck games. It's part of the deal.

JL’s contract and Tony’s contract are on the Internet.

If someone wants to post them here, that’s their call.

I’m not going to do it.

(03-19-2019 09:04 PM)Tribewins Wrote:  P5 away game revenue is $60-$80K per, so the 2 P5 away games and 2 A10 away games and we’re north of $200K each year. P5 away games also give us much needed exposure to recruits. Just stating facts.

Revenue sharing amongst sports occurs at every school. Football/basketball carries every sport at D1 level. Donors know this going in. Don’t like it, don’t donate. The end result will be dismissal of all sports not football/basketball, it’s that simple.

It’s also why P5 conferences rarely kick out the perennial weak team(s). They insure wins for the power teams to go to bowl games/NCAA Tourney, etc and in turn the power teams share revenue from bowl games, NCAA tourney with the weak teams.

Thank you for confirming that the system is crooked, that the Dance is rigged, and to fire a coach because he didn’t make the Dance, when the Dance is rigged against W&M, is farcical.