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CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
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tribeinexile Offline
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CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
Might as well put it out there. It’ll be the hot topic starting next week.

I wouldn’t mind a primer from someone knowledgeable on the subject. When can players contact other schools? When can coaches contact players on other teams? When can offers be made? Is there a transfer portal for MBB as there is in FBS football.

From a W&M perspective my biggest concerns are juniors (rising seniors) who may be able to graduate early due to summer school classes. I am also concerned about players who may feel they have been recruited over. And there are always homesickness and academic travails as issues.

Retention is our top priority but picking up the right transfer is always a good thing.
03-07-2019 09:46 AM
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WillaMary08 Offline
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RE: CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
Transfers Eligible This Year:
William & Mary - RSR 7’0” C Andy Van Vliet (Wisconsin)
Delaware - RJR 6’4” G Nate Darling (UAB), RSO 6’7” F Justyn Mutts (High Point), RJR 6’9” F Dylan Painter (Villanova - available spring semester).
UNCW - RSO 6’8” F Marten Linssen (Valparaiso)
Northeastern - RSO 6’9” Greg Eboigbodin (Illinois)
Hofstra - RSO 6'7" F Isaac Kante (Georgia)
Towson - RJR 6’8” F Juwan Gray (San Diego)

Transfers Who Must Sit a Year:
(None)

Transfers Leaving the CAA:
(None)

Tribe Interest:
(None)
03-07-2019 10:57 AM
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mrjoolius Offline
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CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
I have nothing to go on here, just speculation regarding our own house. The only 2 players on our roster that I could imagine transfering strictly for basketball purposes, are Williams and Scott. Jahir has already been recruited over and is buried on the bench behind freshmen. Thornton lost out to Loewe and the staff is recruiting PGs for 2019 and 2020. That isn't to say that either guy doesn't have a bounce back, but each guy was given a shot and didn't run with it. Save some real evolvement of their games, It's hard to see either unseating the guys in front of them. Some may add Blair to the list, but I think his time is coming with the loss of Rowley and Pierce entering his final year.
03-07-2019 11:01 AM
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FauqDawg10 Offline
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RE: CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
(03-07-2019 11:01 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  I have nothing to go on here, just speculation regarding our own house. The only 2 players on our roster that I could imagine transfering strictly for basketball purposes, are Williams and Scott. Jahir has already been recruited over and is buried on the bench behind freshmen. Thornton lost out to Loewe and the staff is recruiting PGs for 2019 and 2020. That isn't to say that either guy doesn't have a bounce back, but each guy was given a shot and didn't run with it. Save some real evolvement of their games, It's hard to see either unseating the guys in front of them. Some may add Blair to the list, but I think his time is coming with the loss of Rowley and Pierce entering his final year.

Given Thornton's struggles, Tony gave him a much longer leash than almost any coach would have (which was not unrelated to the fact that Luke wasn't much better). I can't imagine he's getting a bigger role anywhere else.

Jihar being relegated to bench purgatory was probably a result of Chase's unexpected Day 1 readiness more than anything else. He hasn't exactly lit the world on fire in the limited minutes he's played, but there are still coaching staffs out there who like him and he realistically is not in line for decent minutes next year either. If someone out there wants to give him good minutes for two years, I think he should take it.

I would imagine Quinn and Mehkel are penciled in for 2020-21 starting roles when Knight and Pierce are gone. I wouldn't expect either one to go anywhere.

I remain worried about an immediately-eligible Milon getting bumped to the bench with Van Vliet on board and getting looks from a number of P5s and other schools who would love to give him a featuring role. I don't *think* that will happen--he's still going to be a key rotation guy and he knows they have a chance to finally break down the wall next year--but I'm keeping an eye on it.
03-07-2019 11:43 AM
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mrjoolius Offline
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RE: CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
(03-07-2019 11:43 AM)FauqDawg10 Wrote:  I remain worried about an immediately-eligible Milon getting bumped to the bench with Van Vliet on board and getting looks from a number of P5s and other schools who would love to give him a featuring role. I don't *think* that will happen--he's still going to be a key rotation guy and he knows they have a chance to finally break down the wall next year--but I'm keeping an eye on it.

I know the Milon transfer has been brought up before. Frankly, I don't see it. Milon is the returning starter. Though Van Vliet could possibly overtake him in the starting line up, nothing is guarenteed nor promised. I see Van Vliet and Milon in very different roles. The Van Vliet I envision is a direct swap in for the Rowley role- albeit a better scorer and longer defender/rebounder.

As long of a leash as Shaver has given players this season, I find it hard to believe that he would move a returning senior starter that has produced in the past to the bench
03-07-2019 12:01 PM
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WM Beancounter Offline
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RE: CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
I have always assumed that Van Vliet will assume most of Rowley's minutes, but then again I haven't seen the man's game and don't know if he's the type of player who can back up the 3, 4, and 5 when necessary.

With Cameron Brown coming in and apparently ready to contribute right away, I think Jihar gets buried even further down the bench, unfortunately. I liked Jihar's effort against JMU, but 12 minutes, no points, 1 rebound, 1 assist... doesn't exactly scream for more time on the court.
03-07-2019 12:12 PM
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ColonelEbirt Offline
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CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
I disagree on Scott. Before he got injured, he was playing a lot. In fact, 3 of those last 5 games, he played half the game (19, 21, 21 minutes). So while Luke has strengthened his grasp over the last month (perhaps because of Scott’s injury, since he was allowed to play for long stretches without being replaced every 5-8 minutes, not to mention constantly looking over his shoulder), I don’t think it’s safe to say Scott has no chance to break in and play serious minutes in future years. Our system is hard for a freshman PG to pick up, so we have to look at Scott as someone who is coming into his SO year with far more playing time than any other PG in recent history. I don’t think he’s going anywhere, but I have no idea of course.

I also don’t see Milon as any worry at all, unless there’s something personal going on that we don’t know about. All this talk of VV immediately relegating him to the bench is premature. Milon will be coming into his 4th year with the program (only practiced first year of course), 2 straight years of consistently starting, #3 scorer on the team, best outside threat, etc. You don’t just throw that guy to the bench for an unproven transfer without a really hard battle. And even if VV eventually starts over him, I think Milon stays with these guys and plays a very pivotal 6th man role.


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03-07-2019 12:16 PM
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mrjoolius Offline
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CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
If Jihar decides to stick it out, which I would respect, I think the hope would be that he could carve out a Burchfield type second half of his career. After Connor's sophomore year, I'm pretty sure there were transfer threads written about him. I probably even typed as much. It goes to show that hard work and belief can overcome many obstacles.
03-07-2019 12:22 PM
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mrjoolius Offline
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CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
I don't see Scott transfering. I put it out there because, looking big picture, the two had the most going against them on the roster. Scott is returning behind a Junior PG who has seized the starting role and seeing that the coaches are actively seeking PGs in the 2019 and 2020 classes. I like Scott and think he has the ability to play a lot. He just has to take that next step. He needs to get stronger. His mental game needs to improve. He needs to improve on ball security and careless passes. I think he can, but it gets harder and harder if Loewe continues to improve and dynamic freshmen enter the program.
03-07-2019 12:36 PM
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bubbadog57 Offline
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RE: CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
Unmentioned, but vital to any of this transfer business is the fact that a player
may love attending W&M, values the education he's receiving here, may have a serious girlfriend attending here, is entering the business school, and enjoys the W&M basketball program.
03-07-2019 12:59 PM
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tribeinexile Offline
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RE: CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
We have not mentioned the two rising seniors I am most concerned about. I suspect they are “immediately eligible”.

Two developments make me feel a little better regarding potential transfers. The current five-game winning streak has to instill confidence in next year’s prospects. And giving Williams the playing time against JMU has to give everyone the belief that they can get a shot.
03-07-2019 01:29 PM
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Tribe32 Offline
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CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
I would not be shocked to see Pierce get some run at point guard next season. I know it sounds crazy, but he brings it up a lot already. That may be his best position at the next level.

That gives you a lineup of Pierce, Audige, Milon, Van Vliet, and Knight.

I don’t see a team captain transferring (Milon).


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03-07-2019 03:15 PM
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mrjoolius Offline
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CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
I think you will definitely see a lot of Pierce bringing the ball up because it is difficult for teams to pressure him and it allows us to quickly get out and run. He will not be the point guard though. I don't think we want our best rebounder playing the point.
03-07-2019 03:32 PM
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WM Beancounter Offline
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RE: CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
(03-07-2019 03:15 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I would not be shocked to see Pierce get some run at point guard next season.

Yeah, that's not happening. Pierce is the top returning rebounder in the conference next year, and you think we're going to position him as far away from the bucket as possible?

And we all know Tony *loves* Loewe and Owens.
03-07-2019 04:40 PM
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FauqDawg10 Offline
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RE: CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
(03-07-2019 01:29 PM)tribeinexile Wrote:  Two developments make me feel a little better regarding potential transfers. The current five-game winning streak has to instill confidence in next year’s prospects. And giving Williams the playing time against JMU has to give everyone the belief that they can get a shot.

To play devil's advocate...Jihar getting 12 minutes as the last scholarship 2-guard on the roster in a game of no real consequence because Chase sprained an ankle in the first 90 seconds does not make me believe that he (or anyone) is "getting a shot."

Not to say there is no chance of a Burchfield-like leap from him, but Burchfield was at least a regular rotation player (and the country's leading three-point specialist!) on a team with a lot of talented guards by his sophomore year. I don't recall any of Tony's guys getting regular DNP-CDs through their first two years and ever playing a meaningful role. And there's not a guard spot opening up next year.

Even though his career here hasn't been what anyone would've hoped, I still think he's a talented player. And much as I would love to have that talent available to us, if it's important to him that he sees regular playing time, I think a transfer would be his best-case scenario, because it would mean someone else values that talent in a way Tony doesn't.
(This post was last modified: 03-07-2019 05:42 PM by FauqDawg10.)
03-07-2019 05:40 PM
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tribeinexile Offline
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RE: CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
My point about Williams playing was not specific to him. I think a Blair or Harvey or Scott can look at Williams' opportunity and realize they are one ankle sprain away from a significant opportunity. That's better than thinking the coach has his chosen few and that those outside that circle have no shot at playing time.

I would love to see Williams get more playing time but I don't know where that time would come from. If he were to opt to move on because of perceived limited opportunity I would understand but I hope he doesn't.

If I am correctly interpreting the last post by bubbadog57, then I am feeling a bit better about retention prospects for the rising senior class. I have never thought that Milon was the most likely member of that class to transfer out.
03-07-2019 07:52 PM
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FauqDawg10 Offline
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RE: CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
(03-07-2019 07:52 PM)tribeinexile Wrote:  My point about Williams playing was not specific to him. I think a Blair or Harvey or Scott can look at Williams' opportunity and realize they are one ankle sprain away from a significant opportunity. That's better than thinking the coach has his chosen few and that those outside that circle have no shot at playing time.

I would love to see Williams get more playing time but I don't know where that time would come from. If he were to opt to move on because of perceived limited opportunity I would understand but I hope he doesn't.

If I am correctly interpreting the last post by bubbadog57, then I am feeling a bit better about retention prospects for the rising senior class. I have never thought that Milon was the most likely member of that class to transfer out.

Sure, but the large majority of scholarship players are a sprained ankle away from seeing rotation minutes (particularly on a team with only 11 eligible scholarship players). Waiting four years for an opportunity like that, which might never come, isn't satisfactory for most of them. In Jihar's case, he got the first two starts, and then apart from one game without Pierce, one without Pierce+Milon, and one without Chase, played next to no meaningful minutes. He's stuck behind Milon, Audige and Owens (the latter two being program cornerstones over the next three years) with another highly touted guard/wing coming in next year. In all likelihood, he'd absolutely be riding the pine next year, with maybe some rotational chances as a senior.

Maybe other schools wouldn't want him--not everyone gets to be an astronaut, and some guys just belong at the end of the bench, even at lower-level schools. As you noted, it's hard to say where those minutes should be coming from. But if somebody else did want to give him a more meaningful role (and I think somebody would), you couldn't blame him for exploring. I think he's talented, and of course as a W&M fan I selfishly want a player I trust available when someone rolls an ankle. But what's best for the Tribe isn't always what's best for a player whose top priority is actually getting to play.

As to Quinn, Mekhel and Thornton--I of course hope they always stay ready for their closeup. But I think they're in different scenarios--Quinn and Mekhel look like they have the inside track to starting roles in 2020, and got some more "real" spot minutes. Thornton also was getting a lot of minutes before his injury and was generally given a pretty long leash, considering he had turnover problems and was a complete nonfactor as a scorer. All those guys have good reason to believe they are in the coaches' plans for the next three years.
(This post was last modified: 03-07-2019 11:27 PM by FauqDawg10.)
03-07-2019 11:26 PM
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Tribe32 Offline
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RE: CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
Reality - kids on our team come to get a top notch education and play a sport that allows them to get that education for free. Most don't expect to play professionally, and therefore are here for the sheep skin

Fantasy - players who don't get enough minutes or end up at the end of the bench are going to transfer to another school that will give them a guaranteed chance to play

The real question nobody can ever answer when you recruit a kid is whether you are seeing his ceiling or floor when you watch him play in high school. You make your best guess based on film, seeing them live, and interacting with them face to face.
03-08-2019 06:51 AM
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WillaMary08 Offline
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RE: CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
RS FR 6’4” Quinton Drayton will be transferring from Towson. He appeared in 10 games (49 minutes) this year.
03-13-2019 02:04 PM
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WillaMary08 Offline
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RE: CAA MBB Transfers - 2019
RS SO 6’11” F Alex Schultz will be transferring from JMU. He appeared in 3 games (7 minutes) last year.
03-14-2019 02:31 PM
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