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UC vs the Coogz thread
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #261
RE: UC vs the Coogz thread
(02-11-2019 11:55 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  He's so productive he'd get picked but he's not going in the first round. He just does not have the athleticism to warrant a first round pick for his size. I think he's a better SK who was undrafted after being a first team all american. He may decide he's done all the developing he can in college. His weaknesses are size/athleticism related and those won't change dramatically in the next year.

I do think the guys the best offensive player we've had since Logan.

He and Logan are very similar guys, with the exception that he is seven inches taller. He'll get his either through creating his own shot, tipping a ball in, getting a steal, etc. If he can't do that he'll draw a foul and get to the line. He's also great at finding an open guy and getting an assist.
 
02-11-2019 12:02 PM
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skylinecat Offline
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Post: #262
RE: UC vs the Coogz thread
(02-11-2019 11:55 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  He's so productive he'd get picked but he's not going in the first round. He just does not have the athleticism to warrant a first round pick for his size. I think he's a better SK who was undrafted after being a first team all american. He may decide he's done all the developing he can in college. His weaknesses are size/athleticism related and those won't change dramatically in the next year.

I do think the guys the best offensive player we've had since Logan.

He's not currently on any of the mock drafts that I have seen. His biggest problem is going to be that he needs a lot of minutes to bring value to the team. Evans was a guy that you could play 7 minutes per game, he would give you + defense and maybe can 2 3's on a good night. NBA teams aren't going to take their starters out of the game to give Cumberland the 15 minutes he would need to be effective and get buckets. And NBA team isn't going to want to use its possessions having Cumberland drive and try to get fouled. I think he is a good enough shooter, but just not athletic enough on the defensive end to get those types of minutes.

Take any team in the NBA and I would be willing to bet that they have 4 or 5 guys that are better pure scorers (mostly due to the athleticism) than Cumberland. One of those guys is out on the floor at all times and that is who they want getting looks (that aren't open 3's like Gary Clark).

Gary is actually a good example. The Rockets are sort of an extreme case, but Gary played 14.6 MPG and averaged 3 shots per game in that timeframe. Cumberland would most likely be in a similar situation, but doesn't bring the other defensive intangibles that Evans or Clark bring that would get him the 15 minutes.
 
02-11-2019 12:44 PM
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RealDeal Offline
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Post: #263
RE: UC vs the Coogz thread
(02-11-2019 12:44 PM)skylinecat Wrote:  He's not currently on any of the mock drafts that I have seen. His biggest problem is going to be that he needs a lot of minutes to bring value to the team. Evans was a guy that you could play 7 minutes per game, he would give you + defense and maybe can 2 3's on a good night. NBA teams aren't going to take their starters out of the game to give Cumberland the 15 minutes he would need to be effective and get buckets. And NBA team isn't going to want to use its possessions having Cumberland drive and try to get fouled. I think he is a good enough shooter, but just not athletic enough on the defensive end to get those types of minutes.

Take any team in the NBA and I would be willing to bet that they have 4 or 5 guys that are better pure scorers (mostly due to the athleticism) than Cumberland. One of those guys is out on the floor at all times and that is who they want getting looks (that aren't open 3's like Gary Clark).

Gary is actually a good example. The Rockets are sort of an extreme case, but Gary played 14.6 MPG and averaged 3 shots per game in that timeframe. Cumberland would most likely be in a similar situation, but doesn't bring the other defensive intangibles that Evans or Clark bring that would get him the 15 minutes.

You're exactly right. It's why I knew Evans was getting drafted and why I thought Clark eventually could be a role player in the NBA. They were elite defenders capable of guarding multiple positions. Both were good shooters prior to Evans late season slump. Cumberland would thrive in the types of roles SK had; a guy on a bad team who can score. As a fifth guy on a team you need guys who defend and hit open shots. Cumberland can clearly hit shots but he'll struggle to defend multiple positions in the NBA. I do think he gets an SK like run, perhaps a little longer since SK was older coming out of here.
 
02-11-2019 01:15 PM
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jarr Offline
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Post: #264
RE: UC vs the Coogz thread
I think Cumberland may be best served slimming down like Cronin said, and adding some athletecism to his game. If he can also improve his handles. He coule be looked at as a solid backup PG, who can hit shots. Cumberland is going to struggle guarding NBA 2's.
 
02-11-2019 02:03 PM
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robertfoshizzle Offline
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Post: #265
RE: UC vs the Coogz thread
It's so nice having a player again who drives at the rim aggressively on a consistent basis. We haven't had that since Kilpatrick. I'm hoping his aggressiveness rubs off on Keith Williams, because he absolutely has the ability to do the same.
 
02-11-2019 02:28 PM
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skylinecat Offline
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Post: #266
RE: UC vs the Coogz thread
(02-11-2019 02:03 PM)jarr Wrote:  I think Cumberland may be best served slimming down like Cronin said, and adding some athletecism to his game. If he can also improve his handles. He coule be looked at as a solid backup PG, who can hit shots. Cumberland is going to struggle guarding NBA 2's.

Troy Caupain is listed as being 6'4 210 pounds by the GLeague's website. ESPN has Cumberland at 6'5 205, which means one of those numbers is glaringly wrong. I'd guess Cumberland is closer to 225-230. I'm curious how much slimming him down would really make a difference. He makes a lot of plays using brute strength. I'd hate for him to lose that strength while not becoming a noticeably better athlete.
 
02-11-2019 02:44 PM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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Post: #267
RE: UC vs the Coogz thread
(02-11-2019 02:44 PM)skylinecat Wrote:  
(02-11-2019 02:03 PM)jarr Wrote:  I think Cumberland may be best served slimming down like Cronin said, and adding some athletecism to his game. If he can also improve his handles. He coule be looked at as a solid backup PG, who can hit shots. Cumberland is going to struggle guarding NBA 2's.

Troy Caupain is listed as being 6'4 210 pounds by the GLeague's website. ESPN has Cumberland at 6'5 205, which means one of those numbers is glaringly wrong. I'd guess Cumberland is closer to 225-230. I'm curious how much slimming him down would really make a difference. He makes a lot of plays using brute strength. I'd hate for him to lose that strength while not becoming a noticeably better athlete.

I have a theory that it is typically a lot easier for big guys who slim down to be physical players than it is for small guys who beef up or have a late growth spurt even when they end up pretty much the same size. When you start out as a bigger guy, being physical just comes a lot more natural and provides your main advantage. And I think there's a part of you that remains comfortable with that and which is easily and naturally summoned when the opportunity presents itself. But when you're smaller to start with, it's the exact opposite and you have to do a lot more thinking and convincing yourself to be physical and use those new muscles because you are used to playing with a different emphasis up to that point in your career. Cumberland fits this theory pretty well in my opinion. So did Logan. Even Fortsen slimmed down over his time at UC iirc. Charles Barkley might be the the classic example.

Conversely, athleticism (which can have a high correlation with defense) seems to favor the smaller guy who gets big. Kenyon would be a good example here. So would Evans imo. The Hayes kid from Moeller who is now at Texas seems like a classic fit too.

Of course this is all relative. I think either way can serve a player very well in the college game, but when it comes to the NBA the critical nature of athleticism tends to favor the latter type. Sir Charles provides the exception although I wonder if he'd be anywhere near as effective if he was just starting out now out of college.

Thoughts?
 
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2019 08:02 AM by Bearhawkeye.)
02-12-2019 07:46 AM
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