http://flathatnews.com/2019/02/07/monty-...-auctions/

If this doesn't stop, we are going to pull ourselves apart, and Tribe athletics will take a big hit.

(02-08-2019 03:30 PM)nj alum Wrote:  http://flathatnews.com/2019/02/07/monty-...-auctions/

If this doesn't stop, we are going to pull ourselves apart, and Tribe athletics will take a big hit.

Thanks for sharing. This is 30 year old history which was inappropriate at the time but is totally unrelated to either what today's students do or the attitudes of these people today.

Who when they were young did not do DUMB and STUPID things that they regretted later?

Better yet, if you want to bring religion in the mix, how could anybody under this thinking respect Paul the Apostle who earlier in life was Saul and crucified Christians?

Be it Democrats or Republicans, Christians or Moslems, Rich or Poor, Socialist or Ultra Conservatives, you fill in the blank-It is time to quit finding reasons to attack each other and realize without compromise we are doomed.

Flat Hat is searching for drama. I must have said this a million times over the past 3 years -- we have morphed into an outrage culture...people searching for their next victim to anonymously attack like the cowardly bullies they are. So many have punted any ownership of redemption, forgiveness, or empathy. They just attack, viciously, and always as a group. They are willing to forgive and embrace an admitted murderer after 20 years because "he served his time" but what "privileged" kids (no matter the political party) did in the 80s is unforgivable.

This is a nonissue the same way a kid standing in the face of an elder Native Indian is a nonissue or Ralph Northam in blackface should've been a nonstory (had he stopped at saying sorry). We all did some seriously stupid things in college and we shouldn't have to pay the price or be publicly humiliated 30 years later (except for felonious activity, of course).

All regrettable, embarrassing, mean, and hurtful, no doubt, but at what point do we stop searching a person's deep past just hoping to humiliate him or her?

Geeze, students ranted about a living wage for our custodial staff when I was a student W&M. That was speaking up for legitimate change, not drumming up 30 year-old drama that solves nothing.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

My high school in Fairfax County held slave auctions each year. School teachers and administrators volunteered to be auctioned off. My math class bought our math teacher.

There were probably some black teachers/administrators among those auctioned. It was not considered racial or offensive at the time, even among the most progressive thinking teachers, and I attended a new high school with many young, progressive teachers.

Hopefully these events ended a couple decades ago.

(02-09-2019 01:48 PM)DSL Wrote:  My high school in Fairfax County held slave auctions each year. School teachers and administrators volunteered to be auctioned off. My math class bought our math teacher.

There were probably some black teachers/administrators among those auctioned. It was not considered racial or offensive at the time, even among the most progressive thinking teachers, and I attended a new high school with many young, progressive teachers.

Hopefully these events ended a couple decades ago.

No, they just don’t call it “Senior Slave Day” or whatever anymore. Still happens in a lot of schools...while the sane faculty grimace about the bad optics.

Sadly, while those on here complain about an "outrage culture" among today's students, this board itself is also cherry-picking a single extreme example to attack our entire student body. Temporarily leaving aside the merits or lack of merits of this particular Flat Hat story, WM students today are incredibly smart, hard-working, engaged, and do an enormous amount of amazing things from community service to research to making the Williamsburg area a better place. If you want to cherrypick one item (which the overwhelming vast majority of students have nothing to do with), then go ahead, but you are in every way engaging in and furthering that "outrage culture" that you are complaining about.

Other than the title of the thread I don't see anyone attacking the students as a whole. I believe that this was just some sensationalist journalism that probably never should have been printed. Even way back in the old days the students have been behind racial, gender, gay, and other social causes. This is all about nothing IMO. As an aside, I know Monty Mason pretty well, and he's a good dude. He's done tons for his community.

(02-10-2019 12:02 PM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  Sadly, while those on here complain about an "outrage culture" among today's students, this board itself is also cherry-picking a single extreme example to attack our entire student body. Temporarily leaving aside the merits or lack of merits of this particular Flat Hat story, WM students today are incredibly smart, hard-working, engaged, and do an enormous amount of amazing things from community service to research to making the Williamsburg area a better place. If you want to cherrypick one item (which the overwhelming vast majority of students have nothing to do with), then go ahead, but you are in every way engaging in and furthering that "outrage culture" that you are complaining about.

Tribal spoke specifically about this story as an example of outrage culture. He did not attack the student body as a whole.

However, unlike the laughable griffin ballz story awhile back, this article quotes a number of students on campus in leadership roles with what I believe are grossly exaggerated concerns about Monty Mason. I’m certain Just a minimal amount of research into Monty would show this is a silly concern...especially since he wasn’t even involved.

(02-10-2019 12:02 PM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  Sadly, while those on here complain about an "outrage culture" among today's students, this board itself is also cherry-picking a single extreme example to attack our entire student body. Temporarily leaving aside the merits or lack of merits of this particular Flat Hat story, WM students today are incredibly smart, hard-working, engaged, and do an enormous amount of amazing things from community service to research to making the Williamsburg area a better place. If you want to cherrypick one item (which the overwhelming vast majority of students have nothing to do with), then go ahead, but you are in every way engaging in and furthering that "outrage culture" that you are complaining about.

Try to follow along. Our society (never said this is isolated to or even included FH writers or students) has spearheaded the outrage culture. People lose their minds over petty incidents, anonymously gang up on an individual, then move on to their next victim when they feel they've taken their pound of flesh. BTW, it doesn't hurt my feelings one bit that the four Virginia politicians are feeling some heat...in many many ways, they stoked the outrage culture fire. That doesn't change the fact that I feel we all need to be considerate of mitigating circumstances (time, intent, maturity, etc) and lay off the hysteria.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(02-10-2019 01:38 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(02-10-2019 12:02 PM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  Sadly, while those on here complain about an "outrage culture" among today's students, this board itself is also cherry-picking a single extreme example to attack our entire student body. Temporarily leaving aside the merits or lack of merits of this particular Flat Hat story, WM students today are incredibly smart, hard-working, engaged, and do an enormous amount of amazing things from community service to research to making the Williamsburg area a better place. If you want to cherrypick one item (which the overwhelming vast majority of students have nothing to do with), then go ahead, but you are in every way engaging in and furthering that "outrage culture" that you are complaining about.

Try to follow along. Our society (never said this is isolated to or even included FH writers or students) has spearheaded the outrage culture. People lose their minds over petty incidents, anonymously gang up on an individual, then move on to their next victim when they feel they've taken their pound of flesh. BTW, it doesn't hurt my feelings one bit that the four Virginia politicians are feeling some heat...in many many ways, they stoked the outrage culture fire. That doesn't change the fact that I feel we all need to be considerate of mitigating circumstances (time, intent, maturity, etc) and lay off the hysteria.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Big Pharma reportedly working on a purple pill to counteract righteous indignation or “R I”, with television ad campaign to follow. Doctors advise that exposure to this affliction is not limited to college campuses. Friends and family tell me I’ve had bouts myself and my symptoms may have been evident on this forum.

(02-10-2019 01:21 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote:  

(02-10-2019 12:02 PM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  Sadly, while those on here complain about an "outrage culture" among today's students, this board itself is also cherry-picking a single extreme example to attack our entire student body. Temporarily leaving aside the merits or lack of merits of this particular Flat Hat story, WM students today are incredibly smart, hard-working, engaged, and do an enormous amount of amazing things from community service to research to making the Williamsburg area a better place. If you want to cherrypick one item (which the overwhelming vast majority of students have nothing to do with), then go ahead, but you are in every way engaging in and furthering that "outrage culture" that you are complaining about.

Tribal spoke specifically about this story as an example of outrage culture. He did not attack the student body as a whole.

However, unlike the laughable griffin ballz story awhile back, this article quotes a number of students on campus in leadership roles with what I believe are grossly exaggerated concerns about Monty Mason. I’m certain Just a minimal amount of research into Monty would show this is a silly concern...especially since he wasn’t even involved.

This is exactly right. Honestly, there seems to be no real push among the students as a whole for Monty to resign or anything like that. The only real damage to him will be maybe some of the Young Dems wont volunteer for him anymore or something. He'll win easily anyway in his district.

I think the certain few leaders on campus who are mentioned in the article just jumped on this super quickly because they thought that's what the student body would want. I did see the SA President on Twitter calling for the abolition of Greek Life, but that also has no real support. The problem is in this day and age people jump to conclusions without even asking the other party for their side of the story. Maybe it's always been that way, idk, but hopefully people will learn that they need to ask for both sides of a story.

It’s astounding to me that any adult gives a .... about what those clowns running the FH have to say. Give me a break!

(02-13-2019 10:34 AM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  It’s astounding to me that any adult gives a .... about what those clowns running the FH have to say. Give me a break!

The Flat Hat article wasn't an opinion piece. They were reporting on what students had to say and what Monty Mason's response was.

(02-13-2019 10:34 AM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  It’s astounding to me that any adult gives a .... about what those clowns running the FH have to say. Give me a break!

Just a quick update to this, a very good letter to the editor was published recently (although it wasn't shared on the Flat Hat's Facebook for some mysterious reason). It is from an African American gentleman who was in the frat with Monty. http://flathatnews.com/2019/02/13/letter...ambda-phi/

(02-18-2019 03:32 PM)2017WithPep Wrote:  

(02-13-2019 10:34 AM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  It’s astounding to me that any adult gives a .... about what those clowns running the FH have to say. Give me a break!

Just a quick update to this, a very good letter to the editor was published recently (although it wasn't shared on the Flat Hat's Facebook for some mysterious reason). It is from an African American gentleman who was in the frat with Monty. http://flathatnews.com/2019/02/13/letter...ambda-phi/

Well written letter and hope it will be a teaching moment for young students regarding balanced and responsible journalism. I certainly would expect more from William and Mary students.

(02-18-2019 04:16 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 03:32 PM)2017WithPep Wrote:  

(02-13-2019 10:34 AM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  It’s astounding to me that any adult gives a .... about what those clowns running the FH have to say. Give me a break!

Just a quick update to this, a very good letter to the editor was published recently (although it wasn't shared on the Flat Hat's Facebook for some mysterious reason). It is from an African American gentleman who was in the frat with Monty. http://flathatnews.com/2019/02/13/letter...ambda-phi/

Well written letter and hope it will be a teaching moment for young students regarding balanced and responsible journalism. I certainly would expect more from William and Mary students.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was a member of Pi Lamb in the late 50's early 60's. As a fraternity, Pi Lam was very idealistic, diverse and inclusive before those attributes were popularized in society. We were known at W&M as the Jewish Fraternity because we were one of the few Frats on campus at that time, than accepted Jewish members and as a result our membership was approximately 1/2 jew, 1/2 gentile. Two Chinese students were members, Ken Wong and Norm Wong. There were no blacks on the W&M campus yet but we promoted the accomplishments of Brother Jim Brown then excelling in football and lacrosse at Syracuse Univ. W&M Basketball great, Jeff Cohen, pledged Pi Lamb but switched to Sigma Nu where there were more athletically inclined students. Pi Lam brothers were more interested in academics.

Paul Verkuil was President of Pi Lam in 1960 and was later President of W&M. Sam Sadler, Dean of Men, Dean of Students, VP of Student Affairs,for whom the Student Ctr is named was a Pi Lam brother in those days. Unfortunately, apparently, Pi Lam became an "Animal House" like Frat in the 1990's, was put on Triple Secret Probation, and was ultimately kicked off campus [permanently] in 2003/2004. Pi Lam had been disciplined and put on probation several times for partying, drinking/whatever and Sam Sadler closed the fraternity down. I remember talking to Verkuil at W&M Homecomings during his Presidency, and he expressed extreme frustration at the behavior of the "Brothers" in our old Fraternity. I, Of course was proud of them!

(02-19-2019 10:46 AM)62Indian Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 04:16 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 03:32 PM)2017WithPep Wrote:  

(02-13-2019 10:34 AM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  It’s astounding to me that any adult gives a .... about what those clowns running the FH have to say. Give me a break!

Just a quick update to this, a very good letter to the editor was published recently (although it wasn't shared on the Flat Hat's Facebook for some mysterious reason). It is from an African American gentleman who was in the frat with Monty. http://flathatnews.com/2019/02/13/letter...ambda-phi/

Well written letter and hope it will be a teaching moment for young students regarding balanced and responsible journalism. I certainly would expect more from William and Mary students.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was a member of Pi Lamb in the late 50's early 60's. As a fraternity, Pi Lam was very idealistic, diverse and inclusive before those attributes were popularized in society. We were known at W&M as the Jewish Fraternity because we were one of the few Frats on campus at that time, than accepted Jewish members and as a result our membership was approximately 1/2 jew, 1/2 gentile. Two Chinese students were members, Ken Wong and Norm Wong. There were no blacks on the W&M campus yet but we promoted the accomplishments of Brother Jim Brown then excelling in football and lacrosse at Syracuse Univ. W&M Basketball great, Jeff Cohen, pledged Pi Lamb but switched to Sigma Nu where there were more athletically inclined students. Pi Lam brothers were more interested in academics.

Paul Verkuil was President of Pi Lam in 1960 and was later President of W&M. Sam Sadler, Dean of Men, Dean of Students, VP of Student Affairs,for whom the Student Ctr is named was a Pi Lam brother in those days. Unfortunately, apparently, Pi Lam became an "Animal House" like Frat in the 1990's, was put on Triple Secret Probation, and was ultimately kicked off campus [permanently] in 2003/2004. Pi Lam had been disciplined and put on probation several times for partying, drinking/whatever and Sam Sadler closed the fraternity down. I remember talking to Verkuil at W&M Homecomings during his Presidency, and he expressed extreme frustration at the behavior of the "Brothers" in our old Fraternity. I, Of course was proud of them!

I was an SAE during that period. Was Pi Lam next door to us? I vaguely recall some, not too neighborly, interaction.

(02-21-2019 10:56 AM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  

(02-19-2019 10:46 AM)62Indian Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 04:16 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 03:32 PM)2017WithPep Wrote:  

(02-13-2019 10:34 AM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  It’s astounding to me that any adult gives a .... about what those clowns running the FH have to say. Give me a break!

Just a quick update to this, a very good letter to the editor was published recently (although it wasn't shared on the Flat Hat's Facebook for some mysterious reason). It is from an African American gentleman who was in the frat with Monty. http://flathatnews.com/2019/02/13/letter...ambda-phi/

Well written letter and hope it will be a teaching moment for young students regarding balanced and responsible journalism. I certainly would expect more from William and Mary students.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was a member of Pi Lamb in the late 50's early 60's. As a fraternity, Pi Lam was very idealistic, diverse and inclusive before those attributes were popularized in society. We were known at W&M as the Jewish Fraternity because we were one of the few Frats on campus at that time, than accepted Jewish members and as a result our membership was approximately 1/2 jew, 1/2 gentile. Two Chinese students were members, Ken Wong and Norm Wong. There were no blacks on the W&M campus yet but we promoted the accomplishments of Brother Jim Brown then excelling in football and lacrosse at Syracuse Univ. W&M Basketball great, Jeff Cohen, pledged Pi Lamb but switched to Sigma Nu where there were more athletically inclined students. Pi Lam brothers were more interested in academics.

Paul Verkuil was President of Pi Lam in 1960 and was later President of W&M. Sam Sadler, Dean of Men, Dean of Students, VP of Student Affairs,for whom the Student Ctr is named was a Pi Lam brother in those days. Unfortunately, apparently, Pi Lam became an "Animal House" like Frat in the 1990's, was put on Triple Secret Probation, and was ultimately kicked off campus [permanently] in 2003/2004. Pi Lam had been disciplined and put on probation several times for partying, drinking/whatever and Sam Sadler closed the fraternity down. I remember talking to Verkuil at W&M Homecomings during his Presidency, and he expressed extreme frustration at the behavior of the "Brothers" in our old Fraternity. I, Of course was proud of them!

I was an SAE during that period. Was Pi Lam next door to us? I vaguely recall some, not too neighborly, interaction.

(02-24-2019 07:46 AM)Aviator Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 10:56 AM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  

(02-19-2019 10:46 AM)62Indian Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 04:16 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 03:32 PM)2017WithPep Wrote:  Just a quick update to this, a very good letter to the editor was published recently (although it wasn't shared on the Flat Hat's Facebook for some mysterious reason). It is from an African American gentleman who was in the frat with Monty. http://flathatnews.com/2019/02/13/letter...ambda-phi/

Well written letter and hope it will be a teaching moment for young students regarding balanced and responsible journalism. I certainly would expect more from William and Mary students.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was a member of Pi Lamb in the late 50's early 60's. As a fraternity, Pi Lam was very idealistic, diverse and inclusive before those attributes were popularized in society. We were known at W&M as the Jewish Fraternity because we were one of the few Frats on campus at that time, than accepted Jewish members and as a result our membership was approximately 1/2 jew, 1/2 gentile. Two Chinese students were members, Ken Wong and Norm Wong. There were no blacks on the W&M campus yet but we promoted the accomplishments of Brother Jim Brown then excelling in football and lacrosse at Syracuse Univ. W&M Basketball great, Jeff Cohen, pledged Pi Lamb but switched to Sigma Nu where there were more athletically inclined students. Pi Lam brothers were more interested in academics.

Paul Verkuil was President of Pi Lam in 1960 and was later President of W&M. Sam Sadler, Dean of Men, Dean of Students, VP of Student Affairs,for whom the Student Ctr is named was a Pi Lam brother in those days. Unfortunately, apparently, Pi Lam became an "Animal House" like Frat in the 1990's, was put on Triple Secret Probation, and was ultimately kicked off campus [permanently] in 2003/2004. Pi Lam had been disciplined and put on probation several times for partying, drinking/whatever and Sam Sadler closed the fraternity down. I remember talking to Verkuil at W&M Homecomings during his Presidency, and he expressed extreme frustration at the behavior of the "Brothers" in our old Fraternity. I, Of course was proud of them!

I was an SAE during that period. Was Pi Lam next door to us? I vaguely recall some, not too neighborly, interaction.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, Pi Lam was next door to SAE, next to Pi Lam was Lamda Chi. The three Frat Lodges on that side of the street were all demolished to build the new student center [now the Sadler Center]. SAE was the first lodge on the right when you entered fraternity row from the old campus.

Student attitudes today are drastically different then they were in my days on campus. Today, W&M is constipated with Political Correctness, including Faculty, Administration and Students. Every incoming Freshman today is required to take a course on "Climate Change" [in my day you looked out your Dorm window to see if you needed an umbrella that day or not. A credit course on the subject was not required.] In those days most colleges and universities were single sex while W&M was Co-Ed [as we all know since 1919], while all of the Ivy League schools were male only as were most of the schools in Virginia. Typically there was a girls-only school close by the male only schools - today, of course everything is Co-Ed. In that respect, W&M was "Diverse" before it was cool to be "Diverse". Most of the faculty were men and many had served in the military and were very patriotic. The students were also very patriotic and had been brought up and taught about America's history and the History of Western Civilization.

The Kapa Alpha fraternity every year remembered and paid tribute to the Southern Confederacy and Robert E Lee. During the month of Feb or Jan all of the KAs grew beards like Civil War Generals wore Southern Civil War uniforms to events and held an annual Southern Ball where the Southern Belle [chapter sweetheart] was crowned. I have read somewhere that the KAs discontinued this event nationwide in 1992. Many of the KAs were Campus leaders and many were successful business and community leaders later in life.

Today's college students have been brainwashed by Political Correctness. And are prone to take offense at anything and everybody with which, and/or whom, they disagree. Comedians, we laughed at, or with, in my day are no longer welcome on campus and many, such as Jerry Seinfeld and Chris Rock will no longer perform on any college campus - according to Mel Brooks, "we have become stupidly politically correct, which is the death of comedy".

Sixty-two. You nailed it. Thanks for the memories. My roommate for my first two years in the Old Infirmary was a KA. Many of my friends were and for some, still are.