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Consequences for an FBS conference with fewer than 8 full, FB-playing members?
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Consequences for an FBS conference with fewer than 8 full, FB-playing members?
The NCAA requires a conference to have 8 full, football-playing members to be considered an FBS conference (per DI manual, below). What are the consequences for a conference and any of its otherwise FBS-compliant schools if the conference has fewer than this number?

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From page 360 of the DI manual:

Quote:20.02.6. Football Bowl Subdivision Conference.
A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements. An institution shall be included as one of the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members only if the institution participates in the conference schedule in at least six men's and eight women's conference-sponsored sports, including men's basketball and football and three women's team sports including women's basketball. A conference-sponsored sport shall be a sport in which regular-season and/or championship opportunities are provided, consistent with the minimum standards identified by the NCAA sport committee for automatic qualification. (Adopted: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

20.02.6.1. Exception.
A Football Bowl Subdivision member institution shall be permitted to count as one of its required six men's sports and one of its required eight women's sports a sport in which its conference does not sponsor or conduct a championship, provided the sport is one in which it participates in another Division I multi- or single-sport conference. Different sports may be counted for men and women. (Adopted: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

20.02.6.2. Grace Period.
A conference shall continue to be considered a Football Bowl Subdivision conference for two years following the date when it fails to satisfy the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision member requirement due to one or more of its member's failure to comply with the bowl subdivision membership requirements. (Adopted: 4/28/05 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)
01-18-2019 01:32 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: Consequences for an FBS conference with fewer than 8 full, FB-playing members?
They get a waiver.
01-18-2019 01:36 PM
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ken d Online
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RE: Consequences for an FBS conference with fewer than 8 full, FB-playing members?
What this suggests is that, if the AAC West were to get seriously raided by, say, a depleted Big XII, neither Navy nor potentially Army as a replacement would be counted as meeting the requirement for 8 full members.
01-18-2019 01:47 PM
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Gamecock Offline
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RE: Consequences for an FBS conference with fewer than 8 full, FB-playing members?
I imagine no NCAA tourney autobid. But if it's a football only conference, who cares?

I've long thought about the possibility of an "All Indy Conference". Notre Dame, Texas, Navy, BYU, maybe one or two others. In reality it could just function as a sort of scheduling alliance to fill October and November dates with a "title" being awarded to the winner.
01-18-2019 02:34 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: Consequences for an FBS conference with fewer than 8 full, FB-playing members?
(01-18-2019 01:36 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  They get a waiver.

OK, suppose they fail to get a waiver. What happens?

(01-18-2019 01:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  What this suggests is that, if the AAC West were to get seriously raided by, say, a depleted Big XII, neither Navy nor potentially Army as a replacement would be counted as meeting the requirement for 8 full members.

That's exactly what it means.

(01-18-2019 02:34 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  I imagine no NCAA tourney autobid. But if it's a football only conference, who cares?

I've long thought about the possibility of an "All Indy Conference". Notre Dame, Texas, Navy, BYU, maybe one or two others. In reality it could just function as a sort of scheduling alliance to fill October and November dates with a "title" being awarded to the winner.

I'm not sure a violation of the football end of the conference would affect the basketball end. It just seems to me like there's no actual penalty for violating this rule.
01-18-2019 02:42 PM
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RE: Consequences for an FBS conference with fewer than 8 full, FB-playing members?
Unless they are in the grace period, they don't get an FBS seat on NCAA committees, they don't get listed as an FBS conference in NCAA publications.
01-18-2019 02:52 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: Consequences for an FBS conference with fewer than 8 full, FB-playing members?
(01-18-2019 02:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Unless they are in the grace period, they don't get an FBS seat on NCAA committees, they don't get listed as an FBS conference in NCAA publications.

Ah, this is definitely a negative consequence. I wonder if there are others.
01-18-2019 02:56 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: Consequences for an FBS conference with fewer than 8 full, FB-playing members?
(01-18-2019 01:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  What this suggests is that, if the AAC West were to get seriously raided by, say, a depleted Big XII, neither Navy nor potentially Army as a replacement would be counted as meeting the requirement for 8 full members.

Yes this is important.

They lose 2 and they are fine. Can have 10 and two divisions. Does it hurt the TV deal and how much we don't know.

They lose 4 and they will have to add 1 team (non-Army/BYU) to make FBS and find a 10th (could be Army/BYU).

MWC might strike to 14 with BYU/Rice and preempt that plan.
01-18-2019 03:58 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: Consequences for an FBS conference with fewer than 8 full, FB-playing members?
(01-18-2019 03:58 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(01-18-2019 01:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  What this suggests is that, if the AAC West were to get seriously raided by, say, a depleted Big XII, neither Navy nor potentially Army as a replacement would be counted as meeting the requirement for 8 full members.

Yes this is important.

They lose 2 and they are fine. Can have 10 and two divisions. Does it hurt the TV deal and how much we don't know.

They lose 4 and they will have to add 1 team (non-Army/BYU) to make FBS and find a 10th (could be Army/BYU).

MWC might strike to 14 with BYU/Rice and preempt that plan.

This is off topic, but technically a conference with any number of teams can now split into two divisions. Doesn't have to be 10 or more.
01-18-2019 05:18 PM
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RE: Consequences for an FBS conference with fewer than 8 full, FB-playing members?
(01-18-2019 02:56 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-18-2019 02:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Unless they are in the grace period, they don't get an FBS seat on NCAA committees, they don't get listed as an FBS conference in NCAA publications.

Ah, this is definitely a negative consequence. I wonder if there are others.

I'll speculate that the CFP would have the right to cut off payments to any conference that drops below the minimum of 8 full members playing FBS football in the conference, and could then treat the remaining members as independent FBS teams for purposes of making CFP payments -- e.g., each member of a G5 conference with less than 8 full members would get the same payments that Army, BYU, NMSU, and UMass get rather than dividing up the much larger amounts paid to each G5 conference. But...

a) Who knows whether the CFP directors would ever actually take that step. Any "savings" would be a pretty small amount of money relative to the annual revenue of the CFP.

b) It's extremely unlikely that any existing G5 league will drop below that 8-team minimum. And, any split or reorganization of existing leagues is very unlikely to happen prior to the end of the CFP contracts, or at a minimum would happen so close to the end of the CFP contracts that the CFP wouldn't be much of a concern.
01-18-2019 05:37 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: Consequences for an FBS conference with fewer than 8 full, FB-playing members?
(01-18-2019 05:37 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-18-2019 02:56 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-18-2019 02:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Unless they are in the grace period, they don't get an FBS seat on NCAA committees, they don't get listed as an FBS conference in NCAA publications.

Ah, this is definitely a negative consequence. I wonder if there are others.

I'll speculate that the CFP would have the right to cut off payments to any conference that drops below the minimum of 8 full members playing FBS football in the conference, and could then treat the remaining members as independent FBS teams for purposes of making CFP payments -- e.g., each member of a G5 conference with less than 8 full members would get the same payments that Army, BYU, NMSU, and UMass get rather than dividing up the much larger amounts paid to each G5 conference. But...

a) Who knows whether the CFP directors would ever actually take that step. Any "savings" would be a pretty small amount of money relative to the annual revenue of the CFP.

b) It's extremely unlikely that any existing G5 league will drop below that 8-team minimum. And, any split or reorganization of existing leagues is very unlikely to happen prior to the end of the CFP contracts, or at a minimum would happen so close to the end of the CFP contracts that the CFP wouldn't be much of a concern.

The new G5 alignment would have to be decided 2 years before the next CFP contract (2024) to be in place for the new alignment of 2026.

That is why its going to be very hard to do a SBC/CUSA shuffle the CFP contract in place and little incentive to pull the trigger.
01-18-2019 08:25 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: Consequences for an FBS conference with fewer than 8 full, FB-playing members?
Athletic Mountain Conference (AMC)

Boise St
BYU
UNLV
Colorado St
Wyoming
Air Force
New Mexico
UTEP

One more attempt for power in the mountains.

05-stirthepot
01-18-2019 08:33 PM
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