(01-25-2019 10:40 AM)WM Beancounter Wrote:  Quinn Blair deserves more minutes, starting Saturday.

I don't disagree with this sentiment, as he added some big minutes last week and seems to possess that 'swagger' and confidence. But he was not good last night. That inconsistency is to be expected of freshmen.

(01-25-2019 10:40 AM)WM Beancounter Wrote:  Quinn Blair deserves more minutes, starting Saturday.

I don't see why some folks are so high on Quinn. I do like his intensity but I don't like his goofball plays (like bouncing the ball off his own foot out of bounds), his freshman fouls (a la 3-point shooter), and his tapping the ball around instead of just solidly rebounding it (which seems to be contagious because I saw Pierce doing it, too, during yesterday's game). Sure, he might turn out to be great but I just don't see it yet.

The guy who I would like to see more of is Mehkel Harvey.

Regarding Quinn, it seems like when he's in the game, he's tentative because he knows he's going to get yanked. When he started for Justin, I thought he looked like he was much more comfortable in the offense. And I agree that he's done some "goofball" stuff on the court, but he doesn't hold a candle to Chase in that regard. My feeling is that if we're going to keep losing to the bottom half of the conference with our best guys, then lets get some youngsters like Blair and Harvey some more time so they're not intimidated by anything in Charleston. I'm growing tired of Tony shortening his bench so much as the season goes on; this seems to be an annual trend.

(01-25-2019 01:19 PM)WM Beancounter Wrote:  And I agree that he's done some "goofball" stuff on the court, but he doesn't hold a candle to Chase in that regard.

I agree that Chase has made many more bonehead plays/fouls than Quinn --- but, of course, Chase has made MANY more good/great plays than Quinn, too. Some might say that that is just a function of getting more playing time. Maybe --- but I think that it is clear (to me, anyway, and apparently also to Shaver since he is starting Chase and not Quinn) that Chase makes up for his mistakes with other contributions. Hopefully Quinn will get enough playing time to make up for his, too, and not worry about being yanked.

I value Quinn Blair but I think that he is the fifth most useful freshman we have right now.

Tony's monthly luncheon at Anna's Brick Oven next Tuesday, the 29th, at noon should be interesting. Speculate we'll see lots of good questions during the Q&A.

Coaches almost always shorten the bench as the season progresses. You start the season excited about your depth and feel there’s little drop off from players 7 through 11.

Then the season starts and someone starts making plays. The reward is more playing time. Increased playing time begets experience and confidence. Less playing time means rust and doubt.

Sure, you could decide to equalize playing time early in the season at the cost of your W-L record. But losing is infectious (see Tribe, 2018-19) and playing 11 or 12 means nobody gets enough time to develop.

Everyone on this board has their favorites who we want to play more and their dislikes who we want to sit. We like coaches who agree with us and distrust those who don’t.

Blair just looks like a ho hum kind of player. Is he a 3 or a 4? Not great athleticism, size, but hopefully can be a good shooter. I see him being potentially the same level of ability as Rowley gives the team. Harvey looks like he could be a really good player down the road. But again I ask how will he develop? Next year we will have Knight, VanVliet, and Harvey. Will 2 ever be on the floor at the same time? Pierce would then have a great post advantage on his man.

But where will the development and the post development come from? With guards as coaches and a perimeter system?

(01-25-2019 04:00 PM)TribalBeaver Wrote:  Blair just looks like a ho hum kind of player. Is he a 3 or a 4? Not great athleticism, size, but hopefully can be a good shooter. I see him being potentially the same level of ability as Rowley gives the team. Harvey looks like he could be a really good player down the road. But again I ask how will he develop? Next year we will have Knight, VanVliet, and Harvey. Will 2 ever be on the floor at the same time? Pierce would then have a great post advantage on his man.

But where will the development and the post development come from? With guards as coaches and a perimeter system?

TB, those are good points and good questions. Really since 2010, we have had Kitts, Rustoven, Sheldon, Whitman and Knight as the primary 5 guys(help me if I forgetting someone), with Schalk, Harrison and a few others as backups. While there was some improvement from each of those guys during their time with the Tribe, Knight has by far the most talent of any of that group. Some of those guys developed into good players with some post moves(especially Rustoven). If the thought is why don't we have Nathan touch the ball down low every possession, I am not sure I disagree. At least until teams double him on a consistent basis, he should get a ton of touches. As many of you recall, Nathan was basically unstoppable in the tournament last year, but we simply didn't get enough stops in Charleston to have it result in a win. Will be interesting to see how things go tomorrow in Charleston.

There are a couple of comments about playing the younger players more so that they get experience. I get the idea in theory, but unlike most years this will essentially be the same team next year. With the exception of Rowley it's the same crew plus Van Vliet and at least one freshman. Seems to me that the rotation stays pretty much the same. Maybe Williams, Blair, or Harvey has a great off season and pushes their way into the rotation, but I'm not feeling it. It will be a huge change going into the 2020-2021 season.

Van Vliet is Rowley in this offense but with the added chance to block/alter shots defensively and improve rebounding.

I actually think they plan on putting Knight as the four and Van Vliet as the five. Could be interesting. Put VV on the back of the defense and let Knight play on the point or wing or down low on the 3-2. Knight stays out of foul trouble that way.

(01-25-2019 01:40 PM)Zorch Wrote:  

(01-25-2019 01:19 PM)WM Beancounter Wrote:  And I agree that he's done some "goofball" stuff on the court, but he doesn't hold a candle to Chase in that regard.

I agree that Chase has made many more bonehead plays/fouls than Quinn --- but, of course, Chase has made MANY more good/great plays than Quinn, too. Some might say that that is just a function of getting more playing time. Maybe --- but I think that it is clear (to me, anyway, and apparently also to Shaver since he is starting Chase and not Quinn) that Chase makes up for his mistakes with other contributions. Hopefully Quinn will get enough playing time to make up for his, too, and not worry about being yanked.

I value Quinn Blair but I think that he is the fifth most useful freshman we have right now.

I don't think Chase and Quinn compete for minutes at all. Chase is competing with LJ and Matt for minutes. Quinn will be a post player for us. I'd like to see more of him because I think he has the same kind of feel for the game as Chase & LJ. More minutes lets him catch up to the speed and athleticism of the college game; he's the most physically mature freshman we have. Quinn is one of our "least useful" freshmen, but I would argue that's a testament to this year's freshmen rather than a knock on Quinn. In most seasons, he'd be top 3, and last year he might have been the bench post presence that put us over the top. He rebounds well and plays pretty good defense, although like Chase he's a little foul-prone.

(01-25-2019 06:54 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I actually think they plan on putting Knight as the four and Van Vliet as the five. Could be interesting. Put VV on the back of the defense and let Knight play on the point or wing or down low on the 3-2. Knight stays out of foul trouble that way.

My impression was that the reason VV left Wisconsin was that they wanted him to play inside more and he didn't want to. I see him as the biggest 3 we've ever had.

(01-25-2019 04:00 PM)TribalBeaver Wrote:  But where will the development and the post development come from? With guards as coaches and a perimeter system?

This is a fair amount of nonsense. By this logic, what becomes of coaches who never played basketball? Are exceptional coaches required to have played inside and outside?

Have you noticed that Nathan is the top shot blocker in the conference and manages his fouls better by not going for everything? Or that he's able to go left or right with his baby hook in the post? Or that he doesn't show the same hesitation as previous years when he gets the ball on the block? I have my problems with aspects of the coaches, but to suggest that they are not developing players is bunk.

(01-25-2019 01:19 PM)WM Beancounter Wrote:  Regarding Quinn, it seems like when he's in the game, he's tentative because he knows he's going to get yanked. When he started for Justin, I thought he looked like he was much more comfortable in the offense. And I agree that he's done some "goofball" stuff on the court, but he doesn't hold a candle to Chase in that regard. My feeling is that if we're going to keep losing to the bottom half of the conference with our best guys, then lets get some youngsters like Blair and Harvey some more time so they're not intimidated by anything in Charleston. I'm growing tired of Tony shortening his bench so much as the season goes on; this seems to be an annual trend.

Agreed on many points. Quinn was a lot better earlier in the year when he was less tentative, and you can point to him going to the bench with foul trouble as the beginning of the end at Notre Dame. Shortening your bench makes sense if we're playing for the #1 seed and NIT AQ. We're not, so play everyone. It not only helps the players improve, it helps the coaches know which are appropriate times to play them.

(01-25-2019 07:06 PM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  

(01-25-2019 06:54 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I actually think they plan on putting Knight as the four and Van Vliet as the five. Could be interesting. Put VV on the back of the defense and let Knight play on the point or wing or down low on the 3-2. Knight stays out of foul trouble that way.

My impression was that the reason VV left Wisconsin was that they wanted him to play inside more and he didn't want to. I see him as the biggest 3 we've ever had.

I have heard they are strongly considering playing VV and Nate at the same time, in some situations. It would be Andy at the 4 and Nate at the 5. That would push JP to the 3. THAT would be one he!! of a front court, 6'7", 6'10", 7"! I have a hard time thinking of a front line taller, or more talented, across the board, in our MBB history.

Our 5 plays the high post on offense in most sets. Last time I checked that isn't inside. If VV plays that position and is a dead eye as advertised it will spread out the court and leave Knight to run the baseline and post up and for Owens, Audige, and Pierce to make cuts to the basket.

Wisconsin plays a much different style than we do.

(01-25-2019 07:06 PM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  

(01-25-2019 06:54 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I actually think they plan on putting Knight as the four and Van Vliet as the five. Could be interesting. Put VV on the back of the defense and let Knight play on the point or wing or down low on the 3-2. Knight stays out of foul trouble that way.

My impression was that the reason VV left Wisconsin was that they wanted him to play inside more and he didn't want to. I see him as the biggest 3 we've ever had.

Tony really likes VanVliet as a player on the outside. He will tell you and has said publicly
at his luncheons and one on one that he is looking forward to starting VanVliet and Knight regularly next season.

VanVliet is an unusual outside really big man here--although more common in the Big Ten from which he transferred (Wisconsin)--and he his a deadly three point shooter and can really handle the ball and pass it.

His starting presence next season will really change the mojo of Tony's team and it will he fascinating and very promising to see him regularly in the mix with such as Audige,
LJ, Harvey, and the returning three of Pierce, Knight and Milon.

What has to get better with this mix of players is a point guard to handle this bunch.
Perhaps Owens emerges as our #1 point guard.

If VV is starting, and I think he should, I believe that pushes MM to the bench. Chase and JP have to start as well.

I agree that our best bet is to challenge LJ to work his tail off (and he will) and become our starting PG over the spring, summer and into the fall. He would bring the offensive dynamic there we need and starting him and Chase in the backcourt is like the year we started Daniel and Marcus which was fine.

Our best players need to play and play well together.

A starting 5 of LJ, Chase, JP, Nate, and VV is really intriguing and potentially extremely potent. We should lead the league in rebounding with that front court. And play a zone D with those huge athletic bodies and the athleticism of Chase and LJ.

Then you have MM off the bench as a sharp shooting spark, and all the other guys to fill various roles. Could be special if they mesh.


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(01-26-2019 08:56 AM)Naptown Tribe Wrote:  If VV is starting, and I think he should, I believe that pushes MM to the bench. Chase and JP have to start as well.

I agree that our best bet is to challenge LJ to work his tail off (and he will) and become our starting PG over the spring, summer and into the fall. He would bring the offensive dynamic there we need and starting him and Chase in the backcourt is like the year we started Daniel and Marcus which was fine.

Our best players need to play and play well together.

A starting 5 of LJ, Chase, JP, Nate, and VV is really intriguing and potentially extremely potent. We should lead the league in rebounding with that front court. And play a zone D with those huge athletic bodies and the athleticism of Chase and LJ.

Then you have MM off the bench as a sharp shooting spark, and all the other guys to fill various roles. Could be special if they mesh.


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I will agree, having van Vliet in the staying lineup should improve the margin for error in the zone. Defensive rebounding should improve, but I cannot imagine with the offense we run that offensive rebounding improves a lot.
I like the idea of Milon off the bench in a "microwave" role. Have him come in and get shots up. If he's on, roll with him. He is such a defensive liability that he hurts the team if his offense doesn't balance it out. I'm not sure how realistic this will be with Milon being a senior.
I'm still worried about the PG play now and for the immediate future. I'm not sure shoehorning Owens in there is going to pay off the way we hope. I'm really not sure any guards on this roster play the way this team needs from the PG spot. Owens may be able to create scoring opportunities at the point, but for this offense to really hum it needs a guard that attacks and gets the ball to the open shooters. Owens, like our other guards, seems uncomfortable moving the ball on the perimeter and allows defenses to push the guards out to the time lines. We can't let that happen. When they overextend us, you attack until they are forced to play off. Then guys will be open in rhythm. Now we are forcing up shots for the sake of shots with defenses controlling things. That's what made the offense so potent last year. It may have gone through dry spells, but it always had the defense off balance and guessing.