(01-13-2019 10:22 AM)Houston Owl Wrote:  I feel fairly certain that all C-USA teams use "precision" timing. The officials on the court each have the ability to start and stop the clock electronically and, I believe, it is the obligation of the official that is the nearest to the player catching an in-bounds pass to start the clock. This is intended to eliminate the delay that results from the official first telling the clock operator to start the clock and then the clock operator actually starting the clock. While it may have been an error by the clock operator, proper technique by the officials would eliminate that possibility. (I really am not sure that there was an error, but it seems unlikely to me that if the rule is that a player can't catch and shoot with 0.3 or less, the play clearly should have taken longer than 0.5).

Tough way to loose.

Yeah, upon closer examination this is correct. In situations like these, the refs are the ones tasked with starting the clock, not the operator. Which actually makes the delay worse because there is a ref standing 5 feet away. The images below basically show what happened, which you'd think would somehow be reviewable but probably isn't.

https://twitter.com/Eddie_Cru/status/108...7113772032

https://twitter.com/Eddie_Cru/status/108...9256033280

And in that first photo you can see the ref with his hand on his back pocket which is where the timing device is located (and he should have started it as soon as the ball was touched).

The defense on that play, or lack thereof is far more concerning than the clock. What exactly were we doing casually standing around while UTEP tried to shoot?

(01-13-2019 02:04 PM)Antarius Wrote:  The defense on that play, or lack thereof is far more concerning than the clock. What exactly were we doing casually standing around while UTEP tried to shoot?

Easy to say in retrospect. But you gotta balance the odds of getting a foul called against the odds of a very low percentage shot. Whether or not you actually foul a guy, playing close can result in a foul being called.

Looks like Karlgaard is filing a formal inquiry. From Mark Berman:

"After looking at the video we have some questions about the timing of the last 2 plays. We started the process of filing a formal inquiry w/ the conference office.There may be some explanation for it.I sure can't think of 1"

Unrelated, but I just realized that QMB only took two shots yesterday. Feel like he should be getting 5 minimum per game. He's pretty efficient in P&R and his back to the basket game isn't bad. He should be our relief point when we're being stifled by good defense.

(01-13-2019 03:10 PM)temchugh Wrote:  

(01-13-2019 02:04 PM)Antarius Wrote:  The defense on that play, or lack thereof is far more concerning than the clock. What exactly were we doing casually standing around while UTEP tried to shoot?

Easy to say in retrospect. But you gotta balance the odds of getting a foul called against the odds of a very low percentage shot. Whether or not you actually foul a guy, playing close can result in a foul being called.

I dont disagree, but we didnt put a modicum of pressure. We werent even close - the ball had time to BOUNCE, get collected, the player pivoted and shot. Our guys were standing there.

It looked like we thought the game was over and acted as such.

(01-13-2019 10:49 AM)mrbig Wrote:  Is there anything in the CUSA rules that would allow a protest? This really isn’t the kind of thing that should be up for debate. Very easy to time (or count frames) in a replay to see how long it too from touching the ball to release.

When UH was in C-USA, the refs called a technical foul on Tom Penders after he collapsed and was taken off the court by an EMS crew on a gurney. They had the option to reverse the call, but decided not to. UH AD filed a protest with the conference and after a review, the refs were found to be at fault for using extremely poor judgement. The conference said appropriate actions would be taken.

Good luck on this, I personally think you have a case.

(01-13-2019 02:04 PM)Antarius Wrote:  The defense on that play, or lack thereof is far more concerning than the clock. What exactly were we doing casually standing around while UTEP tried to shoot?

The last thing we would have wanted to do on the play would be to foul the three point attempt. I have no problem with the defense.

Looks like a statement on the review will be released tomorrow night.

(01-14-2019 05:00 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  Looks like a statement on the review will be released tomorrow night.

Video show a different view with clock visible.

https://twitter.com/toppercard1992/statu...46624?s=21

Screen grabs I did from video. Sorry couldn’t display them easily within the post. They clearly show the shot clock failed to start correctly.

https://vgy.me/gWPgmt.jpg
https://vgy.me/DEjvf7.jpg
https://vgy.me/qoKL19.jpg
https://vgy.me/F5HX6c.jpg
https://vgy.me/eAyKvX.jpg
https://vgy.me/L4Hc9V.jpg
https://vgy.me/8ViRVh.jpg

If they decide that it's not right, can they wave off the basket and give us the win? I mean is that even a possible outcome?

I doubt it. My guess is they will publicly reprimand the refs and perhaps even tell the director of officials not to assign them to any other CUSA games this year. But that would be my guess as to as far as it gets.

Something we haven't discussed but my suspicion is didn't they have two fairly lengthy discussions before the final play? One on how much time was on the clock after Murphy's 3-pointer, and two how much time came off the clock after the deflection? I suspect the refs were tired of reviewing the time, and just wanted to leave the gym. I know they briefly looked at the video after the UTEP shot, but my guess is all they were doing was to make sure he shot the ball with time still left on the clock, and didn't even want to figure out if the clock was run incorrectly.

Quote:Doug Gottlieb
‏@GottliebShow
2h2 hours ago
More
UTEP made a game winner w/.5 seconds to go.. or did they? First in bounds pass is deflected and the clock should have expired. Then the game winner takes .96 seconds (1)

Quote:Doug Gottlieb
@GottliebShow
2h2 hours ago
More
#UTEP made jumper.. clock doesn’t start right on the touch.. I have it as .96 seconds not .5

As requested additional screen grabs showing until clock registered 0.00.

https://vgy.me/2OsSim.jpg
https://vgy.me/QVrgud.jpg
https://vgy.me/XAnAHL.jpg
https://vgy.me/RMCtYe.jpg
https://vgy.me/S2Pr5u.jpg
https://vgy.me/uWgK5p.jpg
https://vgy.me/FAiZpE.jpg

https://www.kvia.com/sports/rice-files-o.../974901502

This video is interesting too. Stop the video at 48 seconds and you can see that Murphy's shot probably goes through the net at 1.4 seconds (or even 1.3 seconds) and not 1.5 seconds. By rule the clock stops after the ball goes through the net and not while it's still in the net. Unfortunately I have yet to see a video of the deflection.

(01-14-2019 05:53 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 05:00 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  Looks like a statement on the review will be released tomorrow night.

Video show a different view with clock visible.

https://twitter.com/toppercard1992/statu...46624?s=21

Screen grabs I did from video. Sorry couldn’t display them easily within the post. They clearly show the shot clock failed to start correctly.

https://vgy.me/gWPgmt.jpg
https://vgy.me/DEjvf7.jpg
https://vgy.me/qoKL19.jpg
https://vgy.me/F5HX6c.jpg
https://vgy.me/eAyKvX.jpg
https://vgy.me/L4Hc9V.jpg
https://vgy.me/8ViRVh.jpg

Thanks for posting that, Tiki. This may have been seen and commented on before, but...Did QMB deflect the ball right after the UTEP player made his throw from OB to the player down the court? Hard to tell, but it looks like the ball changed course as it seemed to cross QMB's hands in the Twitter replay.

(01-14-2019 07:42 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 05:53 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 05:00 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  Looks like a statement on the review will be released tomorrow night.

Video show a different view with clock visible.

https://twitter.com/toppercard1992/statu...46624?s=21

Screen grabs I did from video. Sorry couldn’t display them easily within the post. They clearly show the shot clock failed to start correctly.

https://vgy.me/gWPgmt.jpg
https://vgy.me/DEjvf7.jpg
https://vgy.me/qoKL19.jpg
https://vgy.me/F5HX6c.jpg
https://vgy.me/eAyKvX.jpg
https://vgy.me/L4Hc9V.jpg
https://vgy.me/8ViRVh.jpg

Thanks for posting that, Tiki. This may have been seen and commented on before, but...Did QMB deflect the ball right after the UTEP player made his throw from OB to the player down the court? Hard to tell, but it looks like the ball changed course as it seemed to cross QMB's hands in the Twitter replay.

QMB deflected the first inbound try. He knocked it out of bounds so he touched it 1.5 seconds and it hit the floor out of bounds at 0.5 leading to the second inbound play in the video.

(01-14-2019 07:37 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  https://www.kvia.com/sports/rice-files-o.../974901502

This video is interesting too. Stop the video at 48 seconds and you can see that Murphy's shot probably goes through the net at 1.4 seconds (or even 1.3 seconds) and not 1.5 seconds. By rule the clock stops after the ball goes through the net and not while it's still in the net. Unfortunately I have yet to see a video of the deflection.

It's hard to tell on the deflection because the ball disappears from view, but 0.5 seconds looked roughly correct.

Grabs from the KVIA video (shot from a slightly different angle) which again show the clock not starting with the touch. Also the crawler says the play started with 0.6 on the clock which was wrong. The commentator seems to think JK is saying the shot didn’t leave his hands before the red lights came on.

https://vgy.me/NrKKZT.png
https://vgy.me/tbU2Ul.png
https://vgy.me/xgnv48.png
https://vgy.me/FC13cI.png

Anybody know if Pera commented on the end of the game on his radio show?