(01-06-2019 08:51 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 08:45 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 01:29 PM)franklyconfused Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 12:23 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  All along I said if we lost anyone it would be Lembo.

I suspected that we lucked out on getting him under less than ideal circumstances. He probably saw the writing on the wall with the way the Maryland program was being run and wanted an out before it all came tumbling down (just a few months later). We offered him the exact same roles he excelled in at a Big 10 school. He might have seen us as an excellent place to land in an emergency, but it was always a hire punching above our weight.

Its concerning that as recently as 2012, losing to Memphis was rock bottom. Now they are poaching our coaches.

Unprecedented.

Hyperbole much?

They're also hiring coaches from Texas Tech, Arizona State and North Carolina, among others. And Marshall's defensive coordinator so we're not the only CUSA team losing a coach to that school.

And this changes my point how?

In 5 years, they've gone from an even bigger clown show than Rice into poaching coaches. While in that time we shoved our head in the sand.

Are you objecting to this being concerning?

Given his resume and pedigree, I was shocked that Rice was able to get Lembo. When things came to light about his previous employer, it made more sense. I am not shocked that he is leaving for a better paying job and I think he is a fantastic example of how a good coach can turn around a group of players (like Thurmond did with the CBs, though he wasn’t nearly as successful as defensive coordinator). Hopefully Coach Bloomgren can find a coach of similar talent (but shorter resume) to replace him.

(01-06-2019 09:06 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 08:51 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 08:45 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 01:29 PM)franklyconfused Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 12:23 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  All along I said if we lost anyone it would be Lembo.

I suspected that we lucked out on getting him under less than ideal circumstances. He probably saw the writing on the wall with the way the Maryland program was being run and wanted an out before it all came tumbling down (just a few months later). We offered him the exact same roles he excelled in at a Big 10 school. He might have seen us as an excellent place to land in an emergency, but it was always a hire punching above our weight.

Its concerning that as recently as 2012, losing to Memphis was rock bottom. Now they are poaching our coaches.

Unprecedented.

Hyperbole much?

They're also hiring coaches from Texas Tech, Arizona State and North Carolina, among others. And Marshall's defensive coordinator so we're not the only CUSA team losing a coach to that school.

And this changes my point how?

In 5 years, they've gone from an even bigger clown show than Rice into poaching coaches. While in that time we shoved our head in the sand.

Are you objecting to this being concerning?

Quite the contrary, it's not concerning in the least. It's college athletics these days. We hired a head coach from Stanford, and got assistants last year from Maryland, Michigan, Stanford and Vandy (albeit the assistants from those last two schools weren't full-time coaches there). Plus we hired a head coach from a MEAC school.

We're spending what we need to be spending on coaches. If other schools want to spend too much, that's their prerogative.

(01-06-2019 09:27 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  We're spending what we need to be spending on coaches. If other schools want to spend too much, that's their prerogative.

This is the attitude that got us into this mess. Spending what we think is appropriate, which is far from the market price needed to succeed.

I'm in agreement with your position - with the caveat we go to Division 3.

Larry Izzo would be my choice if he would be interested.

(01-06-2019 11:31 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  He was TE and ST coach at UH. Supposedly fans there liked what he did with the TE's but they weren't thrilled with the UH special teams.

(01-06-2019 09:06 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 08:51 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 08:45 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 01:29 PM)franklyconfused Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 12:23 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  All along I said if we lost anyone it would be Lembo.

I suspected that we lucked out on getting him under less than ideal circumstances. He probably saw the writing on the wall with the way the Maryland program was being run and wanted an out before it all came tumbling down (just a few months later). We offered him the exact same roles he excelled in at a Big 10 school. He might have seen us as an excellent place to land in an emergency, but it was always a hire punching above our weight.

Its concerning that as recently as 2012, losing to Memphis was rock bottom. Now they are poaching our coaches.

Unprecedented.

Hyperbole much?

They're also hiring coaches from Texas Tech, Arizona State and North Carolina, among others. And Marshall's defensive coordinator so we're not the only CUSA team losing a coach to that school.

And this changes my point how?

In 5 years, they've gone from an even bigger clown show than Rice into poaching coaches. While in that time we shoved our head in the sand.

Are you objecting to this being concerning?

That's the nature of college athletics (and most athletics, to be frank). Very few programs can maintain sustained success at a high level for too long, there's just too many variables at play. Almost every program ebbs and flows. Memphis being better than us right now isn't concerning to me (they've been doing well for a number of years recently). Us being bad is concerning to me.

If you're evaluating our program solely based on how we relate to another program, you're doing it wrong.

(01-06-2019 09:34 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 09:27 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  We're spending what we need to be spending on coaches. If other schools want to spend too much, that's their prerogative.

This is the attitude that got us into this mess. Spending what we think is appropriate, which is far from the market price needed to succeed.

I'm in agreement with your position - with the caveat we go to Division 3.

The truth is somewhere in between. I think we’re spending what we need to spend to be competitive in C-USA. I don’t think you could say that under Bailiff.

However, we’re not spending enough to be truly competitive among the schools we want to (re)join.

There are a lot of great coaches out there and what Lembo was doing isn’t/wasn’t rocket science, so I’m sure we can find another one. That said, in this building stage of the program, I do think it’s an indictment that we couldn’t step up to the plate to offer our AHC enough to stick around. I’d argue that in the fledgling years, staff continuity is more important than when a coach has been around a while.

That said, there could be other factors at play here that we don’t know about. Maybe Bloom and Lembo didn’t see eye to eye, maybe Lembo’s family wanted to move to Memphis, etc, etc. I’m not going to freak out about losing one coach, but if we start hemorrhaging assistants I’ll be more concerned. I haven’t seen any sign of that thus far.

(01-06-2019 11:26 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  There are a lot of great coaches out there and what Lembo was doing isn’t/wasn’t rocket science, so I’m sure we can find another one. That said, in this building stage of the program, I do think it’s an indictment that we couldn’t step up to the plate to offer our AHC enough to stick around. I’d argue that in the fledgling years, staff continuity is more important than when a coach has been around a while.
That said, there could be other factors at play here that we don’t know about. Maybe Bloom and Lembo didn’t see eye to eye, maybe Lembo’s family wanted to move to Memphis, etc, etc. I’m not going to freak out about losing one coach, but if we start hemorrhaging assistants I’ll be more concerned. I haven’t seen any sign of that thus far.

I think this is a somewhat unique situation, and think that the way it's being framed has some problems. In context, Rice was probably able to hire coach Lembo at a discount given the situation at Maryland. That gave coach Lembo some security - remaining in coaching during 2018 - as well as distancing himself from a situation that could've damaged his reputation by association. In lieu of what coach Lembo may have considered commensurate pay, he held the AHC title, which didn't cost Rice much of anything, and maintained the nominally lateral move from a Big 10 school to Rice. For his part, coach Lembo's performance was very good, as special teams distinguished themselves during the year.

So, rather than being embarrassed that Rice lost an associate Head Coach, just be satisfied that the situation was mutually beneficial, and his coaching sets the special teams unit on the right path.

As for his resume - three stays of five years can't be considered too bad for an assistant coach. Note that coach Bloomgren has never coached at the same school that long.

(01-07-2019 05:33 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 11:26 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  There are a lot of great coaches out there and what Lembo was doing isn’t/wasn’t rocket science, so I’m sure we can find another one. That said, in this building stage of the program, I do think it’s an indictment that we couldn’t step up to the plate to offer our AHC enough to stick around. I’d argue that in the fledgling years, staff continuity is more important than when a coach has been around a while.
That said, there could be other factors at play here that we don’t know about. Maybe Bloom and Lembo didn’t see eye to eye, maybe Lembo’s family wanted to move to Memphis, etc, etc. I’m not going to freak out about losing one coach, but if we start hemorrhaging assistants I’ll be more concerned. I haven’t seen any sign of that thus far.

I think this is a somewhat unique situation, and think that the way it's being framed has some problems. In context, Rice was probably able to hire coach Lembo at a discount given the situation at Maryland. That gave coach Lembo some security - remaining in coaching during 2018 - as well as distancing himself from a situation that could've damaged his reputation by association. In lieu of what coach Lembo may have considered commensurate pay, he held the AHC title, which didn't cost Rice much of anything, and maintained the nominally lateral move from a Big 10 school to Rice. For his part, coach Lembo's performance was very good, as special teams distinguished themselves during the year.

So, rather than being embarrassed that Rice lost an associate Head Coach, just be satisfied that the situation was mutually beneficial, and his coaching sets the special teams unit on the right path.

As for his resume - three stays of five years can't be considered too bad for an assistant coach. Note that coach Bloomgren has never coached at the same school that long.

I was more referring to his departure from Ball State to a low-tier B1G only a season after receiving an extension.

As I said-no hard feelings. If he's the only coach we lose, that's absolutely fine. But doesn't dispute the point that the schools our fanbase expects to be competitive with are offering their coaches a helluva lot more.

(01-07-2019 05:33 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 11:26 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  There are a lot of great coaches out there and what Lembo was doing isn’t/wasn’t rocket science, so I’m sure we can find another one. That said, in this building stage of the program, I do think it’s an indictment that we couldn’t step up to the plate to offer our AHC enough to stick around. I’d argue that in the fledgling years, staff continuity is more important than when a coach has been around a while.
That said, there could be other factors at play here that we don’t know about. Maybe Bloom and Lembo didn’t see eye to eye, maybe Lembo’s family wanted to move to Memphis, etc, etc. I’m not going to freak out about losing one coach, but if we start hemorrhaging assistants I’ll be more concerned. I haven’t seen any sign of that thus far.

I think this is a somewhat unique situation, and think that the way it's being framed has some problems. In context, Rice was probably able to hire coach Lembo at a discount given the situation at Maryland. That gave coach Lembo some security - remaining in coaching during 2018 - as well as distancing himself from a situation that could've damaged his reputation by association. In lieu of what coach Lembo may have considered commensurate pay, he held the AHC title, which didn't cost Rice much of anything, and maintained the nominally lateral move from a Big 10 school to Rice. For his part, coach Lembo's performance was very good, as special teams distinguished themselves during the year.

So, rather than being embarrassed that Rice lost an associate Head Coach, just be satisfied that the situation was mutually beneficial, and his coaching sets the special teams unit on the right path.

As for his resume - three stays of five years can't be considered too bad for an assistant coach. Note that coach Bloomgren has never coached at the same school that long.

Guys, this should not be a surprise to anyone, although it is disappointing given how much he brought to the program. He never bought a house, his family never moved down with him, and he was "renting" an adjoining cottage home of a major Rice alum and donor. Let's just be thankful for the help he provided to Coach Bloom in both turning the culture around and improving the recruiting efforts.

We were lucky to get him for a year. Would Thor be a logical replacement?

(01-07-2019 06:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We were lucky to get him for a year. Would Thor be a logical replacement?

I think Thor would jump at the opportunity. He would be a quality option, but I think Izzo would be the homerun if he's interested. I assume he's no longer living in Houston?

(01-07-2019 06:29 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 06:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We were lucky to get him for a year. Would Thor be a logical replacement?

I think Thor would jump at the opportunity. He would be a quality option, but I think Izzo would be the homerun if he's interested. I assume he's no longer living in Houston?

He was the assistant ST Coord for the Seahawks this past season.

(01-07-2019 06:30 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 06:29 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 06:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We were lucky to get him for a year. Would Thor be a logical replacement?

I think Thor would jump at the opportunity. He would be a quality option, but I think Izzo would be the homerun if he's interested. I assume he's no longer living in Houston?

He was the assistant ST Coord for the Seahawks this past season.

Tell him that the Rice kickers likely won't pull hamstrings while attempting kicks in 2019. And he can make sure our punter knows how to handle kickoffs just in case (no drop kicks necessary).

(01-07-2019 06:29 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 06:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We were lucky to get him for a year. Would Thor be a logical replacement?

I think Thor would jump at the opportunity. He would be a quality option, but I think Izzo would be the homerun if he's interested. I assume he's no longer living in Houston?

Izzo was a great special teams player, but his one year tenure as Texans ST coach was not good (I’m trying to be nice). Maybe it was the players, but that stint as the ST coach is a big red flag for me.

(01-07-2019 07:37 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 06:29 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 06:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We were lucky to get him for a year. Would Thor be a logical replacement?

I think Thor would jump at the opportunity. He would be a quality option, but I think Izzo would be the homerun if he's interested. I assume he's no longer living in Houston?

Izzo was a great special teams player, but his one year tenure as Texans ST coach was not good (I’m trying to be nice). Maybe it was the players, but that stint as the ST coach is a big red flag for me.

FWIW the special teams efficiency of the Texans actually improved from 32nd to 26th during Izzo’s tenure.

Not a wringing endorsement but at least they didn’t stay last.

I don’t think Casey or Izzo have enough cache to have that “Wow” factor in a recruits’ home... Casey is younger and has been closer to the college game (and the Rice program) whereas Izzo could really sell the “NFL Curriculum” angle and all his pro bowls and rings.

This is bad news. I don't think anyone better is out there for what Rice will pay. He is a very good coach.

(01-07-2019 07:58 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 07:37 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 06:29 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 06:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We were lucky to get him for a year. Would Thor be a logical replacement?

I think Thor would jump at the opportunity. He would be a quality option, but I think Izzo would be the homerun if he's interested. I assume he's no longer living in Houston?

Izzo was a great special teams player, but his one year tenure as Texans ST coach was not good (I’m trying to be nice). Maybe it was the players, but that stint as the ST coach is a big red flag for me.

FWIW the special teams efficiency of the Texans actually improved from 32nd to 26th during Izzo’s tenure.

Not a wringing endorsement but at least they didn’t stay last.

I don’t think Casey or Izzo have enough cache to have that “Wow” factor in a recruits’ home... Casey is younger and has been closer to the college game (and the Rice program) whereas Izzo could really sell the “NFL Curriculum” angle and all his pro bowls and rings.

And under Larry Izzo's replacement, Brad Seely, the Texans were #6 thru week 17 in 2018. Thanks for making my point.

I don't think recruits base their choice on special teams coaches. Most probably think they'll be too valuable to play on special teams or play very long on special teams (not referring to place kickers or punters obviously).

No offense to Larry Izzo. I loved watching him play as an Owl. But I don't see him as the answer for the Owls Special Teams.

(01-07-2019 08:49 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 07:58 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 07:37 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 06:29 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 06:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We were lucky to get him for a year. Would Thor be a logical replacement?

I think Thor would jump at the opportunity. He would be a quality option, but I think Izzo would be the homerun if he's interested. I assume he's no longer living in Houston?

Izzo was a great special teams player, but his one year tenure as Texans ST coach was not good (I’m trying to be nice). Maybe it was the players, but that stint as the ST coach is a big red flag for me.

FWIW the special teams efficiency of the Texans actually improved from 32nd to 26th during Izzo’s tenure.

Not a wringing endorsement but at least they didn’t stay last.

I don’t think Casey or Izzo have enough cache to have that “Wow” factor in a recruits’ home... Casey is younger and has been closer to the college game (and the Rice program) whereas Izzo could really sell the “NFL Curriculum” angle and all his pro bowls and rings.

And under Larry Izzo's replacement, Brad Seely, the Texans were #6 thru week 17 in 2018. Thanks for making my point.

I don't think recruits base their choice on special teams coaches. Most probably think they'll be too valuable to play on special teams or play very long on special teams (not referring to place kickers or punters obviously).

No offense to Larry Izzo. I loved watching him play as an Owl. But I don't see him as the answer for the Owls Special Teams.

You still need a ST coach who can really sell the program and connect with the players and the HC message. Doesn’t matter if the kid thinks they’ll play special teams or not.

Speaking of leaving... it’s always amazed me how a coach can recruit kids for multiple years then just peace out. Just in general, not picking on Lembo he’s not a HC. But look at Holgorsen to UH. He never returned to WV after their bowl game. He never even told HIS OWN TEAM he was leaving. Some of those kids he’s known and coaches for 6 years (recruiting+redshirt+4 years) and an assistant AD had to tell them. That’s just pure garbage to me, similar to the Toad.

(01-07-2019 05:33 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 11:26 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  There are a lot of great coaches out there and what Lembo was doing isn’t/wasn’t rocket science, so I’m sure we can find another one. That said, in this building stage of the program, I do think it’s an indictment that we couldn’t step up to the plate to offer our AHC enough to stick around. I’d argue that in the fledgling years, staff continuity is more important than when a coach has been around a while.
That said, there could be other factors at play here that we don’t know about. Maybe Bloom and Lembo didn’t see eye to eye, maybe Lembo’s family wanted to move to Memphis, etc, etc. I’m not going to freak out about losing one coach, but if we start hemorrhaging assistants I’ll be more concerned. I haven’t seen any sign of that thus far.

I think this is a somewhat unique situation, and think that the way it's being framed has some problems. In context, Rice was probably able to hire coach Lembo at a discount given the situation at Maryland. That gave coach Lembo some security - remaining in coaching during 2018 - as well as distancing himself from a situation that could've damaged his reputation by association. In lieu of what coach Lembo may have considered commensurate pay, he held the AHC title, which didn't cost Rice much of anything, and maintained the nominally lateral move from a Big 10 school to Rice. For his part, coach Lembo's performance was very good, as special teams distinguished themselves during the year.

So, rather than being embarrassed that Rice lost an associate Head Coach, just be satisfied that the situation was mutually beneficial, and his coaching sets the special teams unit on the right path.

As for his resume - three stays of five years can't be considered too bad for an assistant coach. Note that coach Bloomgren has never coached at the same school that long.

I dont disagree that we got lucky due to the mess at Maryland and that odds are, he would be poached due to his performance here. The issue is who poached him. If Texas or USC or Clemson came calling, then its too-bad-so-sad; we lost him to Memphis. A team that was so far beneath us 5 years ago.

I have been objecting to that fact that Memphis is now being rationalized as a team that can willy-nilly poach coaches. It was TCU, then UH, now Memphis and soon it will be UTSA. How can Rice compete with an ever falling bar of competition?

I'm happy we got Lembo for one year. Not super happy we lost him to another nouveau riche G5 team.