(03-21-2020 11:04 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(03-21-2020 07:18 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  I was initially pretty disappointed compared to the other names we had heard tossed around, but the more I think about it I doubt there were any realistic options that were clearly superior. I still think I would've leaned towards Jones but could definitely understand the argument for either one and either one has the potential to be very successful at JMU. Byington was pulling off pretty similar records in a tougher conference even though he never had any tournament success. Richey pulled out, I doubt Miller was possible, I really really doubt Turner or Becker was possible. The big name I'd be curious about still is JTIII, if he was remotely interested then I think you've gotta do everything possible to land him. He may not have been possible though so tough to hold that against them.

One thing that's been talked about that I think is way off though is the whole "one NCAAT appearance wasn't good enough with Brady so none shouldn't be good enough for this hire." Brady plateaued and couldn't make more than one tournament at JMU. If Byington goes four or five years without a tournament appearance at JMU then that isn't good enough, but the fact he couldn't make it with a program with lower potential in a slightly better conference(the past couple years) doesn't really mean anything compared to Brady not making it more often at JMU.

Matt Brady would still be at JMU if he did not piss off the administration and wasn’t disconnected to his players. His won loss record and only one tournament appearance were not the reasons for his firing. He did not win enough games to overcome all the APR, player issues of the court, Marist lawsuit and living in Crozet stuff. Lefty’s brashness and inflated ego got him fired too.

If Byington has a similar record at JMU to what ha had at GSU, JMU will be happy as long as there isn’t the off the court stuff that Lefty and Brady had going on.

Hart, your expectations for this hiring were way way way unrealistic. It’s like you just became a fan of the school and don’t know its history. There is no way JMU is paying a coach $1 million or even close unless he sells out the new arena and takes JMU deep into the NCAA tournament over several years. JMU doesn’t bet on the come. They hire coaches with potential then pay them for their success. Always has been that way.

I think there's a good chance you're right there but I hope you're not. It was pretty clear where Brady's ceiling was at JMU and I hope that's not good enough for the admin to be satisfied as long as there aren't other issues. Like I and several others have said on here plenty, I think as long as we're in the CAA then the goal and expectation should be to get to where we can dominate the CAA in basketball the way we do in football and be a very strong mid-major in basketball just like we're very strong among FCS and even G5 teams in football.

(03-21-2020 11:28 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  

(03-21-2020 11:04 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(03-21-2020 07:18 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  I was initially pretty disappointed compared to the other names we had heard tossed around, but the more I think about it I doubt there were any realistic options that were clearly superior. I still think I would've leaned towards Jones but could definitely understand the argument for either one and either one has the potential to be very successful at JMU. Byington was pulling off pretty similar records in a tougher conference even though he never had any tournament success. Richey pulled out, I doubt Miller was possible, I really really doubt Turner or Becker was possible. The big name I'd be curious about still is JTIII, if he was remotely interested then I think you've gotta do everything possible to land him. He may not have been possible though so tough to hold that against them.

One thing that's been talked about that I think is way off though is the whole "one NCAAT appearance wasn't good enough with Brady so none shouldn't be good enough for this hire." Brady plateaued and couldn't make more than one tournament at JMU. If Byington goes four or five years without a tournament appearance at JMU then that isn't good enough, but the fact he couldn't make it with a program with lower potential in a slightly better conference(the past couple years) doesn't really mean anything compared to Brady not making it more often at JMU.

Matt Brady would still be at JMU if he did not piss off the administration and wasn’t disconnected to his players. His won loss record and only one tournament appearance were not the reasons for his firing. He did not win enough games to overcome all the APR, player issues of the court, Marist lawsuit and living in Crozet stuff. Lefty’s brashness and inflated ego got him fired too.

If Byington has a similar record at JMU to what ha had at GSU, JMU will be happy as long as there isn’t the off the court stuff that Lefty and Brady had going on.

Hart, your expectations for this hiring were way way way unrealistic. It’s like you just became a fan of the school and don’t know its history. There is no way JMU is paying a coach $1 million or even close unless he sells out the new arena and takes JMU deep into the NCAA tournament over several years. JMU doesn’t bet on the come. They hire coaches with potential then pay them for their success. Always has been that way.

I think there's a good chance you're right there but I hope you're not. It was pretty clear where Brady's ceiling was at JMU and I hope that's not good enough for the admin to be satisfied as long as there aren't other issues. Like I and several others have said on here plenty, I think as long as we're in the CAA then the goal and expectation should be to get to where we can dominate the CAA in basketball the way we do in football and be a very strong mid-major in basketball just like we're very strong among FCS and even G5 teams in football.

I think the expectations likely change over time. Right now it is about making JMU one of the top programs in the league. If coach B accomplishes this, then the expectations go up aka he may become a victim of his own success.

If he doesn’t make the tourney in his first five years but brings the team to the top three in the league and wins games in the CAA tournament, I see him getting extended. From there, I can see expectations being elevated.
Not sure how high though. If he engages the community and has good attendance at games plus no off the court drama, he likely gets another extension.

If his teams are consistently good, the odds are he wins a tourney or two along the way. I don’t feel he needs to elevate JMU to top mid-major status to keep his job long term.

(03-22-2020 08:47 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(03-21-2020 11:28 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  

(03-21-2020 11:04 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(03-21-2020 07:18 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  I was initially pretty disappointed compared to the other names we had heard tossed around, but the more I think about it I doubt there were any realistic options that were clearly superior. I still think I would've leaned towards Jones but could definitely understand the argument for either one and either one has the potential to be very successful at JMU. Byington was pulling off pretty similar records in a tougher conference even though he never had any tournament success. Richey pulled out, I doubt Miller was possible, I really really doubt Turner or Becker was possible. The big name I'd be curious about still is JTIII, if he was remotely interested then I think you've gotta do everything possible to land him. He may not have been possible though so tough to hold that against them.

One thing that's been talked about that I think is way off though is the whole "one NCAAT appearance wasn't good enough with Brady so none shouldn't be good enough for this hire." Brady plateaued and couldn't make more than one tournament at JMU. If Byington goes four or five years without a tournament appearance at JMU then that isn't good enough, but the fact he couldn't make it with a program with lower potential in a slightly better conference(the past couple years) doesn't really mean anything compared to Brady not making it more often at JMU.

Matt Brady would still be at JMU if he did not piss off the administration and wasn’t disconnected to his players. His won loss record and only one tournament appearance were not the reasons for his firing. He did not win enough games to overcome all the APR, player issues of the court, Marist lawsuit and living in Crozet stuff. Lefty’s brashness and inflated ego got him fired too.

If Byington has a similar record at JMU to what ha had at GSU, JMU will be happy as long as there isn’t the off the court stuff that Lefty and Brady had going on.

Hart, your expectations for this hiring were way way way unrealistic. It’s like you just became a fan of the school and don’t know its history. There is no way JMU is paying a coach $1 million or even close unless he sells out the new arena and takes JMU deep into the NCAA tournament over several years. JMU doesn’t bet on the come. They hire coaches with potential then pay them for their success. Always has been that way.

I think there's a good chance you're right there but I hope you're not. It was pretty clear where Brady's ceiling was at JMU and I hope that's not good enough for the admin to be satisfied as long as there aren't other issues. Like I and several others have said on here plenty, I think as long as we're in the CAA then the goal and expectation should be to get to where we can dominate the CAA in basketball the way we do in football and be a very strong mid-major in basketball just like we're very strong among FCS and even G5 teams in football.

I think the expectations likely change over time. Right now it is about making JMU one of the top programs in the league. If coach B accomplishes this, then the expectations go up aka he may become a victim of his own success.

If he doesn’t make the tourney in his first five years but brings the team to the top three in the league and wins games in the CAA tournament, I see him getting extended. From there, I can see expectations being elevated.
Not sure how high though. If he engages the community and has good attendance at games plus no off the court drama, he likely gets another extension.

If his teams are consistently good, the odds are he wins a tourney or two along the way. I don’t feel he needs to elevate JMU to top mid-major status to keep his job long term.

I hope for a more accelerated schedule of success. Being in the top three in the league over the course of his contract won't be enough to satisfy many of us. I would like to see at least two CAA championships in that span. Life is short.

While that would be great, it is a lot to ask for a program that spent the last four years at the bottom of the league. If all the juniors stay and graduate next year, JMU is very young in year two under Coach B. It would be an amazing feat to turn the program around that quickly.

(03-22-2020 09:09 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  While that would be great, it is a lot to ask for a program that spent the last four years at the bottom of the league. If all the juniors stay and graduate next year, JMU is very young in year two under Coach B. It would be an amazing feat to turn the program around that quickly.

Well, it is Coach B who is saying he doesn't want to see any of the players leave who brought that totally losing record of performance to JMU and he thinks they are a talented bunch.

I would be more impressed if he said he welcomed players leaving and started attacking the transfer portal to build a team that can win NOW!

Coach B has inherited a group of individuals (not a team) who have done nothing but lose, yet they believe they are better than JMU. And, he wants to keep that? I don't see that as a good sign of future success.

Yeah I think that we should have high expectations for both football and basketball but agree that at the same time it is a lot to ask. That’s why I really almost hope Byington is either a home run or a total flop because the in between could mean a lot of wasted years. If we get to where he’s had similar success to Brady in similar time then it’s gonna be a little tough to fire a guy for such huge improvement(and wouldn’t look good to candidates to replace him) but it’s also not where most of us want to see JMU basketball. I’d kinda be hoping for a Withers type deal where he gets snatched up and we can go try and get basketball’s Mike Houston to get over the hump.

I really hope Byington is the home run hire though to get basketball to where those expectations are a no brainer just like our expectations for football are now. If so, I’m sure it won’t take too long for him to get snatched up elsewhere but then when he does we’ll know we can attract the near sure thing candidates like Cignetti and know the standards will be very high for that next guy.

I’m cautiously optimistic and can’t wait for November.

(03-22-2020 10:25 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  Yeah I think that we should have high expectations for both football and basketball but agree that at the same time it is a lot to ask. That’s why I really almost hope Byington is either a home run or a total flop because the in between could mean a lot of wasted years. If we get to where he’s had similar success to Brady in similar time then it’s gonna be a little tough to fire a guy for such huge improvement(and wouldn’t look good to candidates to replace him) but it’s also not where most of us want to see JMU basketball. I’d kinda be hoping for a Withers type deal where he gets snatched up and we can go try and get basketball’s Mike Houston to get over the hump.

I really hope Byington is the home run hire though to get basketball to where those expectations are a no brainer just like our expectations for football are now. If so, I’m sure it won’t take too long for him to get snatched up elsewhere but then when he does we’ll know we can attract the near sure thing candidates like Cignetti and know the standards will be very high for that next guy.

I’m cautiously optimistic and can’t wait for November.

Maybe i'm being overly optimistic now, but as I learn about him I see more similarities between Byington and Houston than I do with Withers.

Some may forget about Houston:
- He only had 5 years experience as a HC, 2 of those at the FCS level.
- He turned around a team that was not great previously in Citadel, but they did not make any deep runs in FCS.
- Younger coach with a lot of fire and passion, who seemed to genuinely care about his players and team.

Not quite a mirror image, but this hire has a very familiar feel about it.

(03-22-2020 09:19 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(03-22-2020 09:09 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  While that would be great, it is a lot to ask for a program that spent the last four years at the bottom of the league. If all the juniors stay and graduate next year, JMU is very young in year two under Coach B. It would be an amazing feat to turn the program around that quickly.

Well, it is Coach B who is saying he doesn't want to see any of the players leave who brought that totally losing record of performance to JMU and he thinks they are a talented bunch.

I would be more impressed if he said he welcomed players leaving and started attacking the transfer portal to build a team that can win NOW!

Coach B has inherited a group of individuals (not a team) who have done nothing but lose, yet they believe they are better than JMU. And, he wants to keep that? I don't see that as a good sign of future success.

You can take this a few ways. Jeff Bourne is on record as saying that Coach B had good knowledge of the roster and articulated a plan during the interview process. Either that was an important criteria for the committee (i.e. Coach Bourne and others around the program think the current players are good and want them to stay and that under a new coach they will be better) that they articulated through the search firm and Coach B wanting the JMU job came prepared to solve that or he legitimately is familiar with the players through recruiting and intermediaries, has watched them play and believe there is something there. It could be a little of both.

Coach Byington said his style in terms of roster is versatility and interchangeable parts. Again that may not be music to all of our ears and some may feel that you need a true Center or a true PG or better shooters to be successful with this group and moving forward. I'm not sure he is saying that isn't the case but in a way he stated that the makeup of the roster fits the style he wants to play.

I guess we will have to see how it plays out. I'm more interested in seeing the impact that he can have with the younger guys on the roster- Harvey, Wooden, Christmas, and Parker in particular. I think that's a decent group for the next 2-3 years if you surround them with a few more players. The rising Seniors that stay can obviously help next year. Obviously if Lewis (and Banks and Wilson to a lesser degree) come back they can do more than help and I believe a different coach can get them to have good Senior seasons where they go out winners.

(03-22-2020 11:31 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(03-22-2020 10:25 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  Yeah I think that we should have high expectations for both football and basketball but agree that at the same time it is a lot to ask. That’s why I really almost hope Byington is either a home run or a total flop because the in between could mean a lot of wasted years. If we get to where he’s had similar success to Brady in similar time then it’s gonna be a little tough to fire a guy for such huge improvement(and wouldn’t look good to candidates to replace him) but it’s also not where most of us want to see JMU basketball. I’d kinda be hoping for a Withers type deal where he gets snatched up and we can go try and get basketball’s Mike Houston to get over the hump.

I really hope Byington is the home run hire though to get basketball to where those expectations are a no brainer just like our expectations for football are now. If so, I’m sure it won’t take too long for him to get snatched up elsewhere but then when he does we’ll know we can attract the near sure thing candidates like Cignetti and know the standards will be very high for that next guy.

I’m cautiously optimistic and can’t wait for November.

Maybe i'm being overly optimistic now, but as I learn about him I see more similarities between Byington and Houston than I do with Withers.

Some may forget about Houston:
- He only had 5 years experience as a HC, 2 of those at the FCS level.
- He turned around a team that was not great previously in Citadel, but they did not make any deep runs in FCS.
- Younger coach with a lot of fire and passion, who seemed to genuinely care about his players and team.

Not quite a mirror image, but this hire has a very familiar feel about it.

While Houston didn't make any postseason runs at Citadel, he was only there two years and very well might have. He did have some postseason success at Lenoir Rhyne though. In that respect he is different from Byington in that he actually has postseason experience and success.
I don't think that's a deal breaker for Byington, though. As a program we need wins right now. He has shown that he can do that. If anything he will bring up the standard of what we expect.
Georgia Southern didn't seem to be doing a ton to help support the program in the levels that JMU has done. Then again, he has only been head coach for a little over 7 years. Perhaps he can get it done here. Perhaps not.

(03-22-2020 11:31 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(03-22-2020 10:25 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  Yeah I think that we should have high expectations for both football and basketball but agree that at the same time it is a lot to ask. That’s why I really almost hope Byington is either a home run or a total flop because the in between could mean a lot of wasted years. If we get to where he’s had similar success to Brady in similar time then it’s gonna be a little tough to fire a guy for such huge improvement(and wouldn’t look good to candidates to replace him) but it’s also not where most of us want to see JMU basketball. I’d kinda be hoping for a Withers type deal where he gets snatched up and we can go try and get basketball’s Mike Houston to get over the hump.

I really hope Byington is the home run hire though to get basketball to where those expectations are a no brainer just like our expectations for football are now. If so, I’m sure it won’t take too long for him to get snatched up elsewhere but then when he does we’ll know we can attract the near sure thing candidates like Cignetti and know the standards will be very high for that next guy.

I’m cautiously optimistic and can’t wait for November.

Maybe i'm being overly optimistic now, but as I learn about him I see more similarities between Byington and Houston than I do with Withers.

Some may forget about Houston:
- He only had 5 years experience as a HC, 2 of those at the FCS level.
- He turned around a team that was not great previously in Citadel, but they did not make any deep runs in FCS.
- Younger coach with a lot of fire and passion, who seemed to genuinely care about his players and team.

Not quite a mirror image, but this hire has a very familiar feel about it.

Yeah I’d agree with that. I wasn’t saying he reminds me of Withers or anything, just was saying that if he ends up having Brady level success then I’d be hoping he bails like Withers and then we find the guy to get us over the hump like Houston. I’m hoping he’s the home run hire who gets us where we want to be himself, I’m just afraid that if he takes us from awful to mediocre that could be a lot of wasted years since it’d be a little tough to fire a guy for that kind of turnaround.

(03-23-2020 12:45 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(03-22-2020 09:19 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(03-22-2020 09:09 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  While that would be great, it is a lot to ask for a program that spent the last four years at the bottom of the league. If all the juniors stay and graduate next year, JMU is very young in year two under Coach B. It would be an amazing feat to turn the program around that quickly.

Well, it is Coach B who is saying he doesn't want to see any of the players leave who brought that totally losing record of performance to JMU and he thinks they are a talented bunch.

I would be more impressed if he said he welcomed players leaving and started attacking the transfer portal to build a team that can win NOW!

Coach B has inherited a group of individuals (not a team) who have done nothing but lose, yet they believe they are better than JMU. And, he wants to keep that? I don't see that as a good sign of future success.

You can take this a few ways. Jeff Bourne is on record as saying that Coach B had good knowledge of the roster and articulated a plan during the interview process. Either that was an important criteria for the committee (i.e. Coach Bourne and others around the program think the current players are good and want them to stay and that under a new coach they will be better) that they articulated through the search firm and Coach B wanting the JMU job came prepared to solve that or he legitimately is familiar with the players through recruiting and intermediaries, has watched them play and believe there is something there. It could be a little of both.

Coach Byington said his style in terms of roster is versatility and interchangeable parts. Again that may not be music to all of our ears and some may feel that you need a true Center or a true PG or better shooters to be successful with this group and moving forward. I'm not sure he is saying that isn't the case but in a way he stated that the makeup of the roster fits the style he wants to play.

I guess we will have to see how it plays out. I'm more interested in seeing the impact that he can have with the younger guys on the roster- Harvey, Wooden, Christmas, and Parker in particular. I think that's a decent group for the next 2-3 years if you surround them with a few more players. The rising Seniors that stay can obviously help next year. Obviously if Lewis (and Banks and Wilson to a lesser degree) come back they can do more than help and I believe a different coach can get them to have good Senior seasons where they go out winners.

Don't know if you intentionally wrote "Coach Bourne" or not but it's quite hilarious. Huge issue is if "Coach" Bourne was the one judging the merits of Coach B's player analysis and plan for the program we're f#@k'd again. Coach B may very well be a basketball savant but Bourne is no better judge of coaches capability than his paperboy. To Bourne, everything Coach B said would have sounded like an adult speaking to Charlie Brown.

I'd feel much better knowing there were qualified people in the room. If Coach B underachieved at GSU due to circumstances beyond his control, we could be in for a real treat.

(03-23-2020 11:16 AM)2Buck Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 12:45 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(03-22-2020 09:19 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(03-22-2020 09:09 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  While that would be great, it is a lot to ask for a program that spent the last four years at the bottom of the league. If all the juniors stay and graduate next year, JMU is very young in year two under Coach B. It would be an amazing feat to turn the program around that quickly.

Well, it is Coach B who is saying he doesn't want to see any of the players leave who brought that totally losing record of performance to JMU and he thinks they are a talented bunch.

I would be more impressed if he said he welcomed players leaving and started attacking the transfer portal to build a team that can win NOW!

Coach B has inherited a group of individuals (not a team) who have done nothing but lose, yet they believe they are better than JMU. And, he wants to keep that? I don't see that as a good sign of future success.

You can take this a few ways. Jeff Bourne is on record as saying that Coach B had good knowledge of the roster and articulated a plan during the interview process. Either that was an important criteria for the committee (i.e. Coach Bourne and others around the program think the current players are good and want them to stay and that under a new coach they will be better) that they articulated through the search firm and Coach B wanting the JMU job came prepared to solve that or he legitimately is familiar with the players through recruiting and intermediaries, has watched them play and believe there is something there. It could be a little of both.

Coach Byington said his style in terms of roster is versatility and interchangeable parts. Again that may not be music to all of our ears and some may feel that you need a true Center or a true PG or better shooters to be successful with this group and moving forward. I'm not sure he is saying that isn't the case but in a way he stated that the makeup of the roster fits the style he wants to play.

I guess we will have to see how it plays out. I'm more interested in seeing the impact that he can have with the younger guys on the roster- Harvey, Wooden, Christmas, and Parker in particular. I think that's a decent group for the next 2-3 years if you surround them with a few more players. The rising Seniors that stay can obviously help next year. Obviously if Lewis (and Banks and Wilson to a lesser degree) come back they can do more than help and I believe a different coach can get them to have good Senior seasons where they go out winners.

Don't know if you intentionally wrote "Coach Bourne" or not but it's quite hilarious. Huge issue is if "Coach" Bourne was the one judging the merits of Coach B's player analysis and plan for the program we're f#@k'd again. Coach B may very well be a basketball savant but Bourne is no better judge of coaches capability than his paperboy. To Bourne, everything Coach B said would have sounded like an adult speaking to Charlie Brown.

I'd feel much better knowing there were qualified people in the room. If Coach B underachieved at GSU due to circumstances beyond his control, we could be in for a real treat.

It was an accident but agreed it is pretty hilarious. I can’t help but wonder if that is Bournes philosophy (player continuity) with coaching changes. There was an article floating around in another thread about the Keener era and Bourne made mention to the fact that Keener didn’t run any guys off when he became coach and was trying to do it the right way. I know roster turnover and transfers can be risky at times but it has become the norm in college basketball. Ideally you have a balance some attrition with some guys who buy in and stay. I just hope whatever the case it’s Coach Byingtons call. Keep the guys that fit and are worth keeping and want to be here , move on from the others and it’s best for everyone involved.

(03-22-2020 09:19 PM)Purple Wrote:  Well, it is Coach B who is saying he doesn't want to see any of the players leave who brought that totally losing record of performance to JMU and he thinks they are a talented bunch.

I would be more impressed if he said he welcomed players leaving and started attacking the transfer portal to build a team that can win NOW!

Coach B has inherited a group of individuals (not a team) who have done nothing but lose, yet they believe they are better than JMU. And, he wants to keep that? I don't see that as a good sign of future success.

From an outsider (so discredit as much as you would like):

You really think it would be in any coaches best interest to immediately alienate their team? Good luck telling your players to leave and then try to build any type of positive relationship with the team. It does not matter what you actually believe, distancing yourself from the team on day 1 would be a huge mistake and nearly impossible for any coach to overcome. My 2 cents.

(03-24-2020 08:51 AM)dan10 Wrote:  

(03-22-2020 09:19 PM)Purple Wrote:  Well, it is Coach B who is saying he doesn't want to see any of the players leave who brought that totally losing record of performance to JMU and he thinks they are a talented bunch.

I would be more impressed if he said he welcomed players leaving and started attacking the transfer portal to build a team that can win NOW!

Coach B has inherited a group of individuals (not a team) who have done nothing but lose, yet they believe they are better than JMU. And, he wants to keep that? I don't see that as a good sign of future success.

From an outsider (so discredit as much as you would like):

You really think it would be in any coaches best interest to immediately alienate their team? Good luck telling your players to leave and then try to build any type of positive relationship with the team. It does not matter what you actually believe, distancing yourself from the team on day 1 would be a huge mistake and nearly impossible for any coach to overcome. My 2 cents.

Yeah not to mention the impact on recruiting relationships and centers of influence that would have. I was always surprised the Rowe ran Devonte Morgan off for that very reason- Florida kid and he had spent his red shirt coming from Butler to play at JMU so he basically had no options after JMU. Not sure of the whole story there but it always looked like an early mistake with the roster that Lou Rowe made.