We lost to K-State at home by two under Snyder’s watch. We were getting ready to kick a field goal and Jimmy fkn Skinner threw a short out that was picked off.

(12-10-2018 12:59 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  We lost to K-State at home by two under Snyder’s watch. We were getting ready to kick a field goal and Jimmy fkn Skinner threw a short out that was picked off.

Yep, I was there, one of the most assinign coaching flubs I have witnessed, got in field goal range to win it, didn't call a timeout and Skinner throws a pick. Coaching worse than Doc was here before, some just don't remember it all that well. I can recall a few UCF losses where coaching cost us the game under Snyder as well

(12-10-2018 01:05 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(12-10-2018 12:59 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  We lost to K-State at home by two under Snyder’s watch. We were getting ready to kick a field goal and Jimmy fkn Skinner threw a short out that was picked off.

Yep, I was there, one of the most assinign coaching flubs I have witnessed, got in field goal range to win it, didn't call a timeout and Skinner throws a pick. Coaching worse than Doc was here before, some just don't remember it all that well. I can recall a few UCF losses where coaching cost us the game under Snyder as well

I remember the Miami (FL) game. We were down 19-0 at the half and couldn’t get a damned thing going. Snyder was being interviewed and exclaimed, “Now we’re playin’ some football!!!!”

What a frkn idiot!

(12-07-2018 12:59 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  Mathematicians, what is the probability that a given school will win their division twice over the course of 10 years?... the probability that they will win the 14-team conference over the course of 10 years?

Math is math. Probability is a mathematical term. Probability gives us a baseline from which to set expectations. That is undeniably legit.

Now, one could argue that all Big 10 conference schools are basically like each other... otherwise, school X, Y or Z would never have been granted membership in the first place... but that certain conditions apply that make it more likely that Ohio State will go the Rose Bowl more often than Minnesota. So the mathematical probability is what it is, but the likelihood of an outcome... often in sports circles represented as betting odds... is a different calculation. That also is undeniably valid.

Still, the Big Ten and Ohio State/Minnesota example is an extreme case to draw out the point. As one poster described, some conferences do not have any dominant Ohio State-like program, and it is entirely plausible that a school can rise up to become dominant.

By almost any measure, an Ohio State clone hasn't happened in CUSA. So we can take from that that the likelihood/odds that a given school would win their division title twice in 10 years and the conference title once in 10 years is not especially different than what the probability would be.

Snyder was FAR from a good coach, but DOC is at best a mediocre coach. DOC didn't light up the OOC until the schedule was dumbed down in 2013, and he benefitted from departure of UCF, Memphis, Houston, and ECU. That said he's only had to really good seasons in CUSA 3.0. Not a Snyder or DOC fan.

Snyder OOC
2005 (W&M - W, Kansas State - L, @ Va. Tech - L) 1 - 2
2006 (@WVU - L, Hofstra - W, @ Kansas State - L, @ UT - L) 1 - 2
2007 (@Miami - L, WVU - L, N.H. - L, @Cincy - L) 0 - 4
2008 (IL St. - W, @ Wisconsin - L, @WVU - L, Cincy - L) 1 - 3
2009 (So. IL - W, @ Va. Tech - L, BG - W, @WVU - L) 1 - 3
Doc OOC
2010 (@OSU - L, WVU - L, @BG - L, Ohio - W) 1 - 3
2011 (@WVU - L, @Ohio - L, Va Tech - L, Louisville - W) 1 - 3
2012 (@WVU - L, WCU - W, Ohio - L, @Purdue - L) 1 - 3
CUSA 3.0 2013 (Miami(OH) - W, Gardner Webb - W, @Ohio - L @Va Tech - L) 2 - 2
CUSA 3.0 2014 (@Miami(OH) - W, Rhode Island - W, Ohio - W, @Akron - W) 4 - 0

(12-11-2018 06:44 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Snyder was FAR from a good coach, but DOC is at best a mediocre coach. DOC didn't light up the OOC until the schedule was dumbed down in 2013, and he benefitted from departure of UCF, Memphis, Houston, and ECU. That said he's only had to really good seasons in CUSA 3.0. Not a Snyder or DOC fan.

Snyder OOC
2005 (W&M - W, Kansas State - L, @ Va. Tech - L) 1 - 2
2006 (@WVU - L, Hofstra - W, @ Kansas State - L, @ UT - L) 1 - 2
2007 (@Miami - L, WVU - L, N.H. - W, @Cincy - L) 1 - 3
2008 (IL St. - W, @ Wisconsin - L, @WVU - L, Cincy - L) 1 - 3
2009 (So. IL - W, @ Va. Tech - L, BG - W, @WVU - L) 1 - 3
Doc OOC
2010 (@OSU - L, WVU - L, @BG - L, Ohio - W) 1 - 3
2011 (@WVU - L, @Ohio - L, Va Tech - L, Louisville - W) 1 - 3
2012 (@WVU - L, WCU - W, Ohio - L, @Purdue - L) 1 - 3
CUSA 3.0 2013 (Miami(OH) - W, Gardner Webb - W, @Ohio - L @Va Tech - L) 2 - 2
CUSA 3.0 2014 (@Miami(OH) - W, Rhode Island - W, Ohio - W, @Akron - W) 4 - 0

I am far from saying Doc is a mastermind coach, but I do think in all fairness some things need to be pointed out. 1. Snyder lost to NH. 2. Look at all the one and done games Marcum scheduled for Snyder that were known body bag games before they were even played. 3. Snyder never came close to beating WVU, Doc nearly pulled it off with half a roster of Snyder players to boot. 4. Although Bob P. did beat K-State, play Georgia and OSU close, the rest of the P5 games he played, were blow outs when we had our best players in our history. No I am not talking about Ole Miss, 1 win USC or middling Clemson, I am talking about VT and FL. So in all perspective, Doc has done everything Bob did except get a fluke top 10 win. Just saying. Before we go into the Ohio losses etc, remember the Akron and Bowling green losses under Bob.

Our fanbase is so fickle, we tend for forget factors when reliving our past glory in an effort to reduce Doc's success. Other than the one head scratching year of 2016, we have competed for our division since 2013.

Now you make a point about 2013 and those programs not being in CUSA anymore starting that year. The only program we lost that was worthy of being mentioned was UCF during that time frame, Houston was on the downslide after Kase was gone. We still had ECU, Tulsa, Tulane, UAB, USM, Marshall, UTEP, Rice, pretty much a big chunk of CUSA 2.0, replaced Houston with UNT (whom that year went 9-4), replaced memphis with MT, who that year had a better program and beat us. Don't try to down play 2013, it was a good year for our conference and our program. We got cheated in Blacksburg that year, destroyed ECU to win the East and physically beat up a Maryland team in the Military bowl. Harp on 2014 all you want, the schedule was indeed weak, but not 2013.

So all in all, Doc hasn't done a terrible job, things could be better, yes, but wanting to replace him, at our budget and level, it really rolling the dice. Our odds would be more in line with another Snyder than getting someone who is better than Doc with our budget. P5 wins, Doc has UL (co big east champ that year), Purdue, Maryland(7-5, comparable to Clemson of Bob's era), and VT shoulda been on that list as well. Pruett had USC, Clemson and K-State (no one in their right might would count temple during the time we played them).

Doc Holliday Bowl Press Conference

Tyler King out for the bowl game.

(12-14-2018 02:04 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

Doc Holliday Bowl Press Conference

Tyler King out for the bowl game.

Was expected I think, Knox has done a bang up job though, really like the kid, though I like King too, Knox and king would make a great 1-2 punch. Davis, not so much.

(12-14-2018 02:14 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  Was expected I think, Knox has done a bang up job though, really like the kid, though I like King too, Knox and king would make a great 1-2 punch. Davis, not so much.

I told Thunder the other day that I think we will have a 2 headed monster come next year with King and Knox. In the last 3 games of the season Knox ran the ball 63 times for 365 yards: UTSA 56 yards, FIU 109 yards and even in the horrible loss to VA Tech Knox was a bright spot with 204 yards.

Add in Lawrence Papillon and Jalynn Sykes who were redshirts this season also.

(12-14-2018 03:46 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(12-14-2018 02:14 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  Was expected I think, Knox has done a bang up job though, really like the kid, though I like King too, Knox and king would make a great 1-2 punch. Davis, not so much.

I told Thunder the other day that I think we will have a 2 headed monster come next year with King and Knox. In the last 3 games of the season Knox ran the ball 63 times for 365 yards: UTSA 56 yards, FIU 109 yards and even in the horrible loss to VA Tech Knox was a bright spot with 204 yards.

Add in Lawrence Papillon and Jalynn Sykes who were redshirts this season also.

If herd fans paid attention, we also inserted young lineman that played more aggressive, like Cain, than the upper classman had done all season prior to that. I don't know why it takes more than half a season to try different things to find the right combination. Davis never was a go to back, but we kept on and kept on, King is a great break away back but need to get past the first line to be that, knox makes his own way through the line but lacks the break away. King and Knox are going to be something to deal with and the younger lineman played lights out against VT, which some would consider very good on the defensive line, knox came out of that game over 200 yards rushing, pretty much the only bright spot other than our defense doing its typical run stopping. Green will mature and learn, but the running game getting its wheels turning will certainly take the pressure off. I like our odds against USF.

(12-14-2018 04:45 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  I like our odds against USF.

USF doesn't scare me, I was more worried about Colorado State last year with Michael Gallup than anything USF can put on the field.

(12-14-2018 03:46 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(12-14-2018 02:14 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  Was expected I think, Knox has done a bang up job though, really like the kid, though I like King too, Knox and king would make a great 1-2 punch. Davis, not so much.

I told Thunder the other day that I think we will have a 2 headed monster come next year with King and Knox. In the last 3 games of the season Knox ran the ball 63 times for 365 yards: UTSA 56 yards, FIU 109 yards and even in the horrible loss to VA Tech Knox was a bright spot with 204 yards.

Add in Lawrence Papillon and Jalynn Sykes who were redshirts this season also.

Agree!

(12-14-2018 02:04 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

Sure hope Brady has an absolutely huge game to reclaim a little of the rep that he had this time last year when he had a seasoned NFL-quality QB throwing to him... and when there was a good debate about whether he or Gallup (Col St) would do better in the NFL.

I wont be shocked if Marshall is the only CUSA team to win a bowl game. That's only because Marshall seem to play better in their bowl games than during the season.

(12-15-2018 05:28 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  I wont be shocked if Marshall is the only CUSA team to win a bowl game. That's only because Marshall seem to play better in their bowl games than during the season.

Thanks, Guns, but this one could be a bit different with USF on their home field. We should have a pretty solid presence fan-wise at the game. I guess it’ll just depend on which two teams show up.

We are going to have to have Knox get going to develop the passing game, so the line cannot start slowly. Green can’t just zero in on Brady either. We have to get several receivers involved and limit stupid penalties.

(12-15-2018 05:28 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  I wont be shocked if Marshall is the only CUSA team to win a bowl game. That's only because Marshall seem to play better in their bowl games than during the season.

Working theory is our coaches might take those games slightly more seriously than our opponents' coaches have, and that affects players' approach. Holliday's comments make it pretty clear that this is a business trip, not a reward for a winning season.

(12-15-2018 06:35 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 05:28 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  I wont be shocked if Marshall is the only CUSA team to win a bowl game. That's only because Marshall seem to play better in their bowl games than during the season.

Working theory is our coaches might take those games slightly more seriously than our opponents' coaches have, and that affects players' approach. Holliday's comments make it pretty clear that this is a business trip, not a reward for a winning season.

That is one area Doc differs from his mentor Donnie Nehlen. I remember in the Nehlen ERA WVU's bowl record was awful because Donnie's philosophy was the bowl game was the reward to players for a good season. He NEVER prepared his teams for a bowl game opting instead to make it a fun road trip.

(12-15-2018 06:35 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 05:28 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  I wont be shocked if Marshall is the only CUSA team to win a bowl game. That's only because Marshall seem to play better in their bowl games than during the season.

Working theory is our coaches might take those games slightly more seriously than our opponents' coaches have, and that affects players' approach. Holliday's comments make it pretty clear that this is a business trip, not a reward for a winning season.

That is one area Doc differs from his mentor Donnie Nehlen. I remember in the Nehlen ERA WVU's bowl record was awful because Donnie's philosophy was the bowl game was the reward to players for a good season. He NEVER prepared his teams for a bowl game opting instead to make it a fun road trip.

That audible sobbing you hear is Major Harris from wherever he is these days.

(12-15-2018 06:53 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  That is one area Doc differs from his mentor Donnie Nehlen. I remember in the Nehlen ERA WVU's bowl record was awful because Donnie's philosophy was the bowl game was the reward to players for a good season. He NEVER prepared his teams for a bowl game opting instead to make it a fun road trip.

Ive heard Doc talk about this in casual conversation. He said when he was at WVU under Nehlen that the then 8 practices they got were basically like the 1st 3-4 days of spring ball. Nothing but a walk though with no pads or just shells. Even playing for the national title in 88 and 93 he done nothing different. How lazy can one man be.

No wonder Nehlen was 4-9 in bowls and has the longest bowl losing streak of any active or retied head coaches at 8 straight a streak that stretched from 1987-1999.

(12-15-2018 08:12 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  That audible sobbing you hear is Major Harris from wherever he is these days.

Harris modern day equivalent would have been RG3. The thing is Harris didn't even get a chance in the NFL. Harris done something at the time was almost unheard of, he skipped his senior year of eligibility and then wasn't drafted until the 12 round pick 317.

Instead of signing with the LA Raiders who picked him he signed with the BC Lions of the CFL. His stats for the Lions 1 season: 18-42 for 300 yards 3TDs 3INTs. OOOO Yeah he was setting behind some guy named Doug Flutie and Joe Paopao.