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If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
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axeme Offline
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Post: #41
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
(12-10-2018 11:39 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  The 4 team playoff has already diluted the meaning of all the other bowls. An 8 team playoff would exponentially hurt the other bowls that much more. I'm actually in favor of a 8 team playoff, but it's understandable why all the bowl committees don't want to see it happen.

Yep. When you add additional rounds of a playoff, they almost certainly would have to be at campus sites instead of bowl sites, really diluting the importance of the non-playoff bowls. None of those New Year’s bowls would agree to be the ones that move to mid-December to accommodate a playoff.
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2018 12:16 PM by axeme.)
12-10-2018 12:15 PM
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bronconick Offline
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Post: #42
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
(12-10-2018 12:15 PM)axeme Wrote:  
(12-10-2018 11:39 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  The 4 team playoff has already diluted the meaning of all the other bowls. An 8 team playoff would exponentially hurt the other bowls that much more. I'm actually in favor of a 8 team playoff, but it's understandable why all the bowl committees don't want to see it happen.

Yep. When you add additional rounds of a playoff, they almost certainly would have to be at campus sites instead of bowl sites, really diluting the importance of the non-playoff bowls. None of those New Year’s bowls would agree to be the ones that move to mid-December to accommodate a playoff.

They'll move to 8 in 2026 because the bowls are already dying and players are accelerating it by skipping them for the NFL draft.
12-10-2018 12:40 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #43
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
Quote:The 4 team playoff has already diluted the meaning of all the other bowls. An 8 team playoff would exponentially hurt the other bowls that much more. I'm actually in favor of a 8 team playoff, but it's understandable why all the bowl committees don't want to see it happen.

Not really. What happened when they took the winners of the Top 2 Bowls and had them play in a Nat Championship? More bowls were added. People do want their CFB fix. Especially if spread out where most play just *1* more game, thru the holidays. The same could be said when they started letting in so many people into bowls starting a little over 10 years ago. But it gave people their fix.

Quote:Yep. When you add additional rounds of a playoff, they almost certainly would have to be at campus sites instead of bowl sites, really diluting the importance of the non-playoff bowls.

Ehhh, we don't really have a "round" of a playoff -- we just make the winners of the Top 2 Bowls play for a Nat Champ. It's not so much we even have real playoffs right now. It's no more "playoffs" than the winners of two divisions in a conference playing an extra game to get the conference championship.

But yes, having ACTUAL Playoffs would complicate all the mutual-traveling games (bowls). Would fans of a team want to travel up to three times in a year? It Would make that 3rd time more intense -- the National Championship -- as it becomes a bigger "finale". But yes, I agree -- the 1st round of an 8-team playoff would most likely be home/away games. Would that be so bad? They wouldn't be labeled "bowls". The bowls leading up to Xmas would be during that 1st round. Are they SO important right now? No. But people watch them to keep their fix.

Quote:They'll move to 8 in 2026 because the bowls are already dying and players are accelerating it by skipping them for the NFL draft.

I think they'll move to 8 -- or turn the 12 teams of the NY6 into a 12 team playoff -- before 2026. They CAN do it. The contract and road paved just makes it more difficult.

People said that having a National Championship post-bowls, and changing 2 "BCS" bowls to Not Be Conference vs Conference but instead for the Top 4 teams would ruin things. Not really.

In the end, if you don't have Real playoffs to some degree -- it hurts more. One mine as well make the argument that only Conference Champs + good teams from P5 conferences should make it to bowls and go back to "old school" that way to avoid dilution in December.

So, going 1995 and having just 18 bowls would be the answer? Tell someone back then that there's more than 2x as many bowls + stripping two of the "big bowls" conference setups every year to put the Top 4 in them, for the winners to play in a post-bowl Nat Championship, and they'd make the same argument -- you're ruining it all! :)

But, there has to be a limit, one would wisely say. And yes, of course. We have 6 "big" bowls -- the others don't take away from that. The top 2 have the winners go to the Nat Championship.

What you do is further erase the conference vs conference Assigned matchups in the "big" bowls -- that's been the main grudge, but we've eroded that mentality. We'd rather see the best play each other out.

Replacing the 12 teams in "big bowls" to 8 -- with followups to play it out... or taking all 12 and having them duke it out -- isn't going to make the other conf vs conf bowls "less". They already are, but give us our fix.
12-10-2018 04:39 PM
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Post: #44
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
(12-08-2018 11:37 AM)utpotts Wrote:  Yet every conference including the MAC signed off on this playoff format.

And you probably agreed to take disputes with your credit card company to an arbitrator of their choice rather than fight them in court.

A huge power imbalance exists here. The G5 was able to get an automatic berth in a New Year's Day bowl game and some revenue out of this format. This obviously isn't the playoff system we would have designed if it had been up to us.
12-10-2018 08:46 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #45
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
Quote:A huge power imbalance exists here. The G5 was able to get an automatic berth in a New Year's Day bowl game and some revenue out of this format. This obviously isn't the playoff system we would have designed if it had been up to us.

I agree it's what the G5 agreed to, because it was what they could get. It was better than before, with an extra NY bowl.

And yes, there is a big power imbalance that exists. But there's also a big power imbalance in talent and revenue, pound for pound, between P5 & G5. So some imbalance should be understandable, of course.

Putting the existence of G5 & P5 aside -- an 8-team playoff is surely better than what exists now. Problem is, you'd create a wider gap between P5 & G5, as the Top G5 wouldn't be getting in very often. There's No Way they'd give an Auto-Bid to the Top G5 just for being the Top G5. At realistic best, it'd require said Top G5 to be ranked #12 or better.... OR with all P5 Conf Champs getting an Auto-Bid, they'd have to be equal or better than one of the P5 Conf Champs, if they were rated below #12.

Remember: When there were only 5 NY (BCS) Bowls, not 6, the Top G4 had to be ranked as good or better than a Top P6 -- AND ranked #16 at the Worst. It wasn't until they expanded it to NY 6 bowls, that they gave an auto-bid to Top G5 Conf Winner.

With an 8-team playoff, there'd only be 4 (1st round) "bowls". More elite, harder to be let in. It'd only be once in a while that a Top G5 would get in -- and it would then lead to serious talks about a P5/G5 split in D1 for football.
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2018 03:11 AM by toddjnsn.)
12-11-2018 03:09 AM
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Post: #46
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
(12-11-2018 03:09 AM)toddjnsn Wrote:  Putting the existence of G5 & P5 aside -- an 8-team playoff is surely better than what exists now. Problem is, you'd create a wider gap between P5 & G5, as the Top G5 wouldn't be getting in very often.

With an automatic berth, the G5 would be in every year. The G5 should insist on an automatic berth. I think it's an achievable goal.
12-11-2018 09:59 AM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #47
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
Quote:With an automatic berth, the G5 would be in every year. The G5 should insist on an automatic berth. I think it's an achievable goal.

My point is, it's Not achievable. The G5 can insist all they want -- it has to be fitting for FBS. The G5 can insist they want a 2nd auto-bid into the NY6 if the 2nd-best G5 team is ranked in the Top 16, if they won their conference, or Top 12 if they didn't. Don't see that.

My point is -- it's not going to happen. It'd be Fantasy.

Again: The G5 was *allowed* an auto-bid into the "BCS" bowls on NY, when they Expanded it from 5 -> 6 games. Before that, they didn't have an auto-bid with 10 teams (5 BCS Bowls). To get a bid, you had to be Top 16 + ranked Above a P6 Champ.

The more "elite" the setup, the harder it'd be for an "outsider" to get in. An 8-team playoff would be the result of it going from 12 teams -> 8 teams (4 "bowls"). LESS than when the G4 did not get an auto-bid.

Hell, I'm throwing the G5 a wishful bone here, saying that the Top G5 Conf Winner would be allowed if they were Top 12, not even having to make the Top 10, to make the cut. :)

To think a #17 1L MW/AAC Champ would get in to the Top 8 Playoff? Pipe dream.

I think to Appease the G5, they'd say "Hey, look. We'll still give you leeway to be able to get into a slot. Be ranked above any P5 Conf Champ who gets in, OR even just Top 12, as the lowest P5 Champ will almost always be around Top 10. We even require Notre Dame to have to earn an at-large spot every time to almost always be in the Top 8! You can't complain!"
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2018 04:18 PM by toddjnsn.)
12-11-2018 04:13 PM
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Post: #48
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
(12-11-2018 04:13 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  
Quote:With an automatic berth, the G5 would be in every year. The G5 should insist on an automatic berth. I think it's an achievable goal.

My point is, it's Not achievable.

Then we disagree.
12-11-2018 07:59 PM
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Post: #49
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
(12-11-2018 09:59 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(12-11-2018 03:09 AM)toddjnsn Wrote:  Putting the existence of G5 & P5 aside -- an 8-team playoff is surely better than what exists now. Problem is, you'd create a wider gap between P5 & G5, as the Top G5 wouldn't be getting in very often.

With an automatic berth, the G5 would be in every year. The G5 should insist on an automatic berth. I think it's an achievable goal.

They could make it Top 6 conference champions + two at-large bids.

That might be more palatable than just giving the G5 an autobid or giving the P5 autobids even if they stink in a particular year.
12-11-2018 10:58 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #50
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
(12-10-2018 12:15 PM)axeme Wrote:  
(12-10-2018 11:39 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  The 4 team playoff has already diluted the meaning of all the other bowls. An 8 team playoff would exponentially hurt the other bowls that much more. I'm actually in favor of a 8 team playoff, but it's understandable why all the bowl committees don't want to see it happen.

Yep. When you add additional rounds of a playoff, they almost certainly would have to be at campus sites instead of bowl sites, really diluting the importance of the non-playoff bowls. None of those New Year’s bowls would agree to be the ones that move to mid-December to accommodate a playoff.

I wouldn't exactly assume that Axeme.

The round of 8 I see played in CFP bowls around New Year's.

The first weekend of January then can be semifinals. Second weekend championship game.

8 is still pretty easy to have coexist with the present bowl structure. Only 4 teams will play a second post season game. Only two teams a third. That isn't a real long extension of the post season.
12-11-2018 11:03 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #51
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
Quote:They could make it Top 6 conference champions + two at-large bids.

That Is giving auto-bids to 5 P5s + 1 G5. Whether once every 7 years a Top G5 is above the lowest Top P5 Champ due to a conf upset, is moot. There's really never going to be an exception where the 2nd Best G5 Conf Champ is better than the worse P5 Conf Champ. In such a rarity -- like a P5 division favorite being banned from post-season and their second best sucks, and upsets the other P5 division champ to win the P5 Conference... all while 2 G5 Conf Champs are above them -- yeah, that's a technicality nobody would expect and only once a couple decades or more, would that happen.

That no-real-effect technicality wouldn't change the perception of reality. It'd be 5 P5 Champs + 1 G5 Champ as the auto-bids, since there'd Top 6 Conf Auto-bids in your scenario.

But I wouldn't expect that at all. I get where you're coming from: A respect that the Top G5 Champ is always within the realm of at least 1 P5 Conf Champ, basically year in year out. But I do not see it that way, but more importantly I'm darn sure They don't see it that way.

I would see another different "wording", in a way. After all, for a small # team PLAYOFF -- not just a bowl in a spotlight where you then have 12 teams for the big ones, but instead, only 8 for a chance for a National Championship -- there's More emphasis on being Ranked, and more push-away for being on the outside of upper rankings!

Instead, I would see with your "6" approach: Up to Top 6 Conference Champions will get auto-bid IF within Top 12. At-larges fill the rest by ranking, with *no more than 2 teams from the same conference, unless 3rd team is within the Top 4 (opens things up for other conference at-larges + not trying to be a partial replay of a conference's end-of-season run for their conf title).

Which basically says a Vast majority of the time, 5 P5 Conference Champs will get an auto-bid, and minority of the time, a Top G5 can squeeze in there.

Again, it took there to be 12 teams in the "BCS/NY" bowls to bring in a Top G5 no-matter-what. 10 didn't cut it, but granted it was G4 then. For a playoff with only 8, why in the world would they be taking in an auto Top G5 Conf winner regardless of ranking? If anything, they'd have stipulations against a P5 Conf Winner who was ranked Too Too low.

That's the worry about an 8 team playoff. Now, if they said Top 6 Conference Champions would get an auto-bid IF within the Top 16? Okay. Even undefeated #15 WMU @13-0 would have made it, as would have others in the post-Super-Boise years (2012+), with only 2 since then missing out of the Top 16. I could deal with that. But I wouldn't at all see them doing that.

EDIT: With only 8 teams in a Nat Champ Playoffs in the spotlight, it'd kill the "eliteness" of the BCS/NY bowls, of those other 4 teams that didn't make it to said Playoffs. They'd be on the same level of the Outback Bowl that's played on NY, but it's not an elite "BCS" bowl on NY. Maybe on NYE, maybe on NY. Nice bowls, but not "elite" anymore. So I think what they'd do though to throw G5 a bone: The (many) years a G5 does not make the 8-team playoff (ranked #12 or better), the Top G5 would get one of those "NY" bowls. Compared to this year, they'd play a Penn State and the like, it would be a great bowl to have -- but still wouldn't be as good as the current setup.

--------
*If one has solid doubts they'd do the 2-conf-team MAX in 8-team playoff unless 3rd is in Top #4, then they Surely wouldn't give an auto-bid to a G5 Champ regardless of ranking. Because not having a conference team max rule would mean all they care about is ranking.
(This post was last modified: 12-12-2018 02:30 PM by toddjnsn.)
12-12-2018 08:29 AM
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Pulltown Falcon Offline
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Post: #52
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
(12-11-2018 07:59 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(12-11-2018 04:13 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  
Quote:With an automatic berth, the G5 would be in every year. The G5 should insist on an automatic berth. I think it's an achievable goal.

My point is, it's Not achievable.

Then we disagree.

Achievable? YES

How? Very simple. The G5 schools band together and refuse to play those $$$$ money games at the P5 schools. Allow the P5 schools to beat up on one another for a year or two and when they have all of those teams with 5-7 records that cannot get into bowl games because they are not .500, they will change their tunes. Sorry Meineke Car Car Bowl but the Big10 #12 team and the ACC #10 team have losing records. So no bowl game for you this year.

And the G5 schools need to stand strong and not allow them to change the bowl rules and allow 2 or more FCS wins count towards bowl games.
12-12-2018 09:37 AM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #53
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
Quote:How? Very simple. The G5 schools band together and refuse to play those $$$$ money games at the P5 schools.
Quote:And the G5 schools need to stand strong and not allow them to change the bowl rules and allow 2 or more FCS wins count towards bowl games.

I'm assuming this is sarcasm (with the "very simple"). First, Army/BYU/UMass/Liberty aren't part of the G5 so they don't have to "band". They'd get all the scheduling they'd want. But no, that wouldn't solve the problem.

- What it would do is just force P5s to play each other non-conference with a few getting Army/BYU/etc. Which is what some have wanted!
- It would also shrink the bowls
- Some G5s would go bankrupt not playing any P5 games

And in the end -- it'd most just do what some have aimed for... likely Immediately after 1 year, IF that fantasy protest did come into play: P5 & G5 become different sub-divisions.

That's all that'd happen. And no, the G5 is not going to protest together and play virtually no P5s (because it'd eliminate home/home series too among lesser P5s; no P5 is only going to play @G5).
(This post was last modified: 12-12-2018 02:43 PM by toddjnsn.)
12-12-2018 02:42 PM
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Post: #54
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
(12-12-2018 09:37 AM)Pulltown Falcon Wrote:  How? Very simple. The G5 schools band together and refuse to play those $$$$ money games at the P5 schools.
The Go5 signing a contract along those lines would be an illegal restraint of trade. The Go5 trying to do that without a binding contract would be a Prisoner's Dilemma game, where there is a mutually beneficial outcome available if everybody hangs together, but everybody defects because if everyone ELSE hangs together, the one that defects gets a bucketload of cash.
12-13-2018 08:17 AM
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Post: #55
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
(12-10-2018 04:39 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  
Quote:The 4 team playoff has already diluted the meaning of all the other bowls. An 8 team playoff would exponentially hurt the other bowls that much more. I'm actually in favor of a 8 team playoff, but it's understandable why all the bowl committees don't want to see it happen.

Not really. What happened when they took the winners of the Top 2 Bowls and had them play in a Nat Championship? More bowls were added. People do want their CFB fix. Especially if spread out where most play just *1* more game, thru the holidays. The same could be said when they started letting in so many people into bowls starting a little over 10 years ago. But it gave people their fix.

Quote:Yep. When you add additional rounds of a playoff, they almost certainly would have to be at campus sites instead of bowl sites, really diluting the importance of the non-playoff bowls.

Ehhh, we don't really have a "round" of a playoff -- we just make the winners of the Top 2 Bowls play for a Nat Champ. It's not so much we even have real playoffs right now. It's no more "playoffs" than the winners of two divisions in a conference playing an extra game to get the conference championship.

But yes, having ACTUAL Playoffs would complicate all the mutual-traveling games (bowls). Would fans of a team want to travel up to three times in a year? It Would make that 3rd time more intense -- the National Championship -- as it becomes a bigger "finale". But yes, I agree -- the 1st round of an 8-team playoff would most likely be home/away games. Would that be so bad? They wouldn't be labeled "bowls". The bowls leading up to Xmas would be during that 1st round. Are they SO important right now? No. But people watch them to keep their fix.

Quote:They'll move to 8 in 2026 because the bowls are already dying and players are accelerating it by skipping them for the NFL draft.

I think they'll move to 8 -- or turn the 12 teams of the NY6 into a 12 team playoff -- before 2026. They CAN do it. The contract and road paved just makes it more difficult.

People said that having a National Championship post-bowls, and changing 2 "BCS" bowls to Not Be Conference vs Conference but instead for the Top 4 teams would ruin things. Not really.

In the end, if you don't have Real playoffs to some degree -- it hurts more. One mine as well make the argument that only Conference Champs + good teams from P5 conferences should make it to bowls and go back to "old school" that way to avoid dilution in December.

So, going 1995 and having just 18 bowls would be the answer? Tell someone back then that there's more than 2x as many bowls + stripping two of the "big bowls" conference setups every year to put the Top 4 in them, for the winners to play in a post-bowl Nat Championship, and they'd make the same argument -- you're ruining it all! :)

But, there has to be a limit, one would wisely say. And yes, of course. We have 6 "big" bowls -- the others don't take away from that. The top 2 have the winners go to the Nat Championship.

What you do is further erase the conference vs conference Assigned matchups in the "big" bowls -- that's been the main grudge, but we've eroded that mentality. We'd rather see the best play each other out.

Replacing the 12 teams in "big bowls" to 8 -- with followups to play it out... or taking all 12 and having them duke it out -- isn't going to make the other conf vs conf bowls "less". They already are, but give us our fix.

It's TV filler during an otherwise dead period on television as most shows go on hiatus around Thanksgiving. Being someone whose from Ohio I'm surrounded by a lot of Buckeye fans. Back 10 years ago under the old BCS system these fans would be stoked playing in the Rose Bowl. Fast forward 10 years and now it's viewed as a disappointment.
12-13-2018 03:30 PM
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Post: #56
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
(12-13-2018 03:30 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(12-10-2018 04:39 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  
Quote:The 4 team playoff has already diluted the meaning of all the other bowls. An 8 team playoff would exponentially hurt the other bowls that much more. I'm actually in favor of a 8 team playoff, but it's understandable why all the bowl committees don't want to see it happen.

Not really. What happened when they took the winners of the Top 2 Bowls and had them play in a Nat Championship? More bowls were added. People do want their CFB fix. Especially if spread out where most play just *1* more game, thru the holidays. The same could be said when they started letting in so many people into bowls starting a little over 10 years ago. But it gave people their fix.

Quote:Yep. When you add additional rounds of a playoff, they almost certainly would have to be at campus sites instead of bowl sites, really diluting the importance of the non-playoff bowls.

Ehhh, we don't really have a "round" of a playoff -- we just make the winners of the Top 2 Bowls play for a Nat Champ. It's not so much we even have real playoffs right now. It's no more "playoffs" than the winners of two divisions in a conference playing an extra game to get the conference championship.

But yes, having ACTUAL Playoffs would complicate all the mutual-traveling games (bowls). Would fans of a team want to travel up to three times in a year? It Would make that 3rd time more intense -- the National Championship -- as it becomes a bigger "finale". But yes, I agree -- the 1st round of an 8-team playoff would most likely be home/away games. Would that be so bad? They wouldn't be labeled "bowls". The bowls leading up to Xmas would be during that 1st round. Are they SO important right now? No. But people watch them to keep their fix.

Quote:They'll move to 8 in 2026 because the bowls are already dying and players are accelerating it by skipping them for the NFL draft.

I think they'll move to 8 -- or turn the 12 teams of the NY6 into a 12 team playoff -- before 2026. They CAN do it. The contract and road paved just makes it more difficult.

People said that having a National Championship post-bowls, and changing 2 "BCS" bowls to Not Be Conference vs Conference but instead for the Top 4 teams would ruin things. Not really.

In the end, if you don't have Real playoffs to some degree -- it hurts more. One mine as well make the argument that only Conference Champs + good teams from P5 conferences should make it to bowls and go back to "old school" that way to avoid dilution in December.

So, going 1995 and having just 18 bowls would be the answer? Tell someone back then that there's more than 2x as many bowls + stripping two of the "big bowls" conference setups every year to put the Top 4 in them, for the winners to play in a post-bowl Nat Championship, and they'd make the same argument -- you're ruining it all! :)

But, there has to be a limit, one would wisely say. And yes, of course. We have 6 "big" bowls -- the others don't take away from that. The top 2 have the winners go to the Nat Championship.

What you do is further erase the conference vs conference Assigned matchups in the "big" bowls -- that's been the main grudge, but we've eroded that mentality. We'd rather see the best play each other out.

Replacing the 12 teams in "big bowls" to 8 -- with followups to play it out... or taking all 12 and having them duke it out -- isn't going to make the other conf vs conf bowls "less". They already are, but give us our fix.

It's TV filler during an otherwise dead period on television as most shows go on hiatus around Thanksgiving. Being someone whose from Ohio I'm surrounded by a lot of Buckeye fans. Back 10 years ago under the old BCS system these fans would be stoked playing in the Rose Bowl. Fast forward 10 years and now it's viewed as a disappointment.

And I bet none of them are saying they don't want to be in the "playoff", they'd rather be in the Rose Bowl. But the powers that be had to be dragged kicking and screaming into even the 4-team postseason they have now (I'm not calling it a playoff). Ohio State fans are fine with only 4 teams because they are one of the few teams with a realistic chance of playing for a national title - at least that's what they're calling it.
12-13-2018 04:08 PM
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Post: #57
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
(12-13-2018 04:08 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(12-13-2018 03:30 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(12-10-2018 04:39 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  
Quote:The 4 team playoff has already diluted the meaning of all the other bowls. An 8 team playoff would exponentially hurt the other bowls that much more. I'm actually in favor of a 8 team playoff, but it's understandable why all the bowl committees don't want to see it happen.

Not really. What happened when they took the winners of the Top 2 Bowls and had them play in a Nat Championship? More bowls were added. People do want their CFB fix. Especially if spread out where most play just *1* more game, thru the holidays. The same could be said when they started letting in so many people into bowls starting a little over 10 years ago. But it gave people their fix.

Quote:Yep. When you add additional rounds of a playoff, they almost certainly would have to be at campus sites instead of bowl sites, really diluting the importance of the non-playoff bowls.

Ehhh, we don't really have a "round" of a playoff -- we just make the winners of the Top 2 Bowls play for a Nat Champ. It's not so much we even have real playoffs right now. It's no more "playoffs" than the winners of two divisions in a conference playing an extra game to get the conference championship.

But yes, having ACTUAL Playoffs would complicate all the mutual-traveling games (bowls). Would fans of a team want to travel up to three times in a year? It Would make that 3rd time more intense -- the National Championship -- as it becomes a bigger "finale". But yes, I agree -- the 1st round of an 8-team playoff would most likely be home/away games. Would that be so bad? They wouldn't be labeled "bowls". The bowls leading up to Xmas would be during that 1st round. Are they SO important right now? No. But people watch them to keep their fix.

Quote:They'll move to 8 in 2026 because the bowls are already dying and players are accelerating it by skipping them for the NFL draft.

I think they'll move to 8 -- or turn the 12 teams of the NY6 into a 12 team playoff -- before 2026. They CAN do it. The contract and road paved just makes it more difficult.

People said that having a National Championship post-bowls, and changing 2 "BCS" bowls to Not Be Conference vs Conference but instead for the Top 4 teams would ruin things. Not really.

In the end, if you don't have Real playoffs to some degree -- it hurts more. One mine as well make the argument that only Conference Champs + good teams from P5 conferences should make it to bowls and go back to "old school" that way to avoid dilution in December.

So, going 1995 and having just 18 bowls would be the answer? Tell someone back then that there's more than 2x as many bowls + stripping two of the "big bowls" conference setups every year to put the Top 4 in them, for the winners to play in a post-bowl Nat Championship, and they'd make the same argument -- you're ruining it all! :)

But, there has to be a limit, one would wisely say. And yes, of course. We have 6 "big" bowls -- the others don't take away from that. The top 2 have the winners go to the Nat Championship.

What you do is further erase the conference vs conference Assigned matchups in the "big" bowls -- that's been the main grudge, but we've eroded that mentality. We'd rather see the best play each other out.

Replacing the 12 teams in "big bowls" to 8 -- with followups to play it out... or taking all 12 and having them duke it out -- isn't going to make the other conf vs conf bowls "less". They already are, but give us our fix.

It's TV filler during an otherwise dead period on television as most shows go on hiatus around Thanksgiving. Being someone whose from Ohio I'm surrounded by a lot of Buckeye fans. Back 10 years ago under the old BCS system these fans would be stoked playing in the Rose Bowl. Fast forward 10 years and now it's viewed as a disappointment.

And I bet none of them are saying they don't want to be in the "playoff", they'd rather be in the Rose Bowl. But the powers that be had to be dragged kicking and screaming into even the 4-team postseason they have now (I'm not calling it a playoff). Ohio State fans are fine with only 4 teams because they are one of the few teams with a realistic chance of playing for a national title - at least that's what they're calling it.

Theoretically any of the 60+ teams in P5 conferences have a path to the playoffs, including Rutgers *chuckles*. It's the G5 programs that have next to no chance of ever getting in. It would take about a million different things breaking their way of which 99% of those they'd have no control over.
12-13-2018 04:58 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #58
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
Quote:Theoretically any of the 60+ teams in P5 conferences have a path to the playoffs, including Rutgers *chuckles*. It's the G5 programs that have next to no chance of ever getting in. It would take about a million different things breaking their way of which 99% of those they'd have no control over.

A 4 team playoff, the consistent bottom P5s don't have a realistic chance. Rutgers to not only win the B1G -- but Not by any Upset or Ohio State/Michigan being banned from post-season play -- thus making it in the Top 4? I would see Boise St having a better shot at making the Top 4 (which they did many years ago when they were studs, until upset by Nevada near end-season).

Now, an 8-team playoff where All P5s get in no matter what -- better chance, but still a longshot. I think the whole "but you Can every year if you're P5" is overblown though.

WMU scheduled Ohio State + Michigan State one year when both were beasts. And Michigan State + Iowa + Ranked Northwestern another year. WMU, like Miami-OH & NIU could kick out an FCS or too-easy G5 -- and play hardcore and stomp everyone in the MAC and get into the Top 4. Basically in their 2nd year of doing the same thing again as you can't expect a 'perfecto' schedule.

Unlikely as hell. Yes. So would Rutgers going 13-1 beating UM/OSU/MSU/PSU+NEB/WISC/NW, while also beating someone pretty big in the P12/SEC/ACC -- where their 1 loss was not against a 6-6 team nor any super-close games against Blah teams either (like Ohio State was this year).
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2018 06:27 PM by toddjnsn.)
12-13-2018 06:07 PM
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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
(12-13-2018 06:07 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  
Quote:Theoretically any of the 60+ teams in P5 conferences have a path to the playoffs, including Rutgers *chuckles*. It's the G5 programs that have next to no chance of ever getting in. It would take about a million different things breaking their way of which 99% of those they'd have no control over.

A 4 team playoff, the consistent bottom P5s don't have a realistic chance. Rutgers to not only win the B1G -- but Not by any Upset or Ohio State/Michigan being banned from post-season play -- thus making it in the Top 4? I would see Boise St having a better shot at making the Top 4 (which they did many years ago when they were studs, until upset by Nevada near end-season).

Now, an 8-team playoff where All P5s get in no matter what -- better chance, but still a longshot. I think the whole "but you Can every year if you're P5" is overblown though.

WMU scheduled Ohio State + Michigan State one year when both were beasts. And Michigan State + Iowa + Ranked Northwestern another year. WMU, like Miami-OH & NIU could kick out an FCS or too-easy G5 -- and play hardcore and stomp everyone in the MAC and get into the Top 4. Basically in their 2nd year of doing the same thing again as you can't expect a 'perfecto' schedule.

Unlikely as hell. Yes. So would Rutgers going 13-1 beating UM/OSU/MSU/PSU+NEB/WISC/NW, while also beating someone pretty big in the P12/SEC/ACC -- where their 1 loss was not against a 6-6 team nor any super-close games against Blah teams either (like Ohio State was this year).

Hence why I said theoretically. Michigan State was a mid to lower tier B1G team until Dantonio took over the program. They managed to make the playoffs. Baylor was a bottom feeder in Big 12 for years and they weren't that far away from making the playoffs. Clemson before Sweeney was nothing to write home about. There will always be some non-blue bloods in the discussion for CFP and those non-blue bloods will rotate. As Michigan State declines maybe Minnesota emerges.
12-13-2018 07:34 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #60
RE: If UCF is denied a spot in the playoff......
Quote:Baylor was a bottom feeder in Big 12 for years and they weren't that far away from making the playoffs.

But they were always in there. Rutgers joined for geographical purposes for TV, instead is my point of separating them. Even so, a lot of it is $$ invested in the program. Rutgers could "get there" for a year some time. A hell of a lot of $$ over a long period of time to do so.

My point is, theoretically, a solid G5 program like WMU and many others, with $$ over a long period of time + SoS strong, could too. Like Boise did when they were good. You could say that like Boise, the coach will leave. True, but that's where $$ comes in. And don't tell me a Rutgers coach wouldn't be leaving Before they'd be B1G dominators lol.

In the end, it's just theoretical for a team like them who "doesn't belong" in a strong 14-team conference -- and for a solid G5 program, if we're talking about a 4 team playoff. For a "BCS" bowl? Okay, a little easier -- but then again, it still is Rutgers... and the G5 instead would be competing with other top G5s for that 1 spot indirectly.

If I wanted to make the playoffs as the 1 goal and to hell with everything else, and with no restrictive budget and ambitious scheduling an option, would I want to be running Rutgers, or WMU? Neither. 'Bout same chances near zero, IMO. Same with NW for other reasons -- but better for BCS bowl and would if that was the 1 goal -- but due to academic restrictions and all, can't see that happening for a 4-team playoff. Illinois? Oh, I'd take them over a solid G5 any day. Cal? Yeah. Kansas, Yes. Wake Forrest? No.
(This post was last modified: 12-14-2018 05:27 PM by toddjnsn.)
12-14-2018 05:22 PM
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