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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #21
RE: stock contest
(12-07-2018 12:45 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(11-29-2018 11:45 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(11-26-2018 06:43 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  
(11-26-2018 05:26 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  can a dead person win? His ghost posts here a lot.

It seems as though they can vote, so why not?

The overwhelming majority of "dead voters" are cases of mistaken identity(fathers and sons sharing the same name) or other clerical errors, though I am aware of at least one case of an absentee voter dying while their vote was in the mail.

If there was any substance to the talk of voter fraud Dear Leader's voter fraud commission would have found it rather than quickly disbanding after finding, just as they were told, that it is almost entirely a non-issue.

I was talking about clt, not Kim Jong Un.

Who said anything about Kim?
12-07-2018 02:20 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #22
RE: stock contest
(12-07-2018 02:20 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 12:45 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(11-29-2018 11:45 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(11-26-2018 06:43 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  
(11-26-2018 05:26 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  can a dead person win? His ghost posts here a lot.

It seems as though they can vote, so why not?

The overwhelming majority of "dead voters" are cases of mistaken identity(fathers and sons sharing the same name) or other clerical errors, though I am aware of at least one case of an absentee voter dying while their vote was in the mail.

If there was any substance to the talk of voter fraud Dear Leader's voter fraud commission would have found it rather than quickly disbanding after finding, just as they were told, that it is almost entirely a non-issue.

I was talking about clt, not Kim Jong Un.

Who said anything about Kim?

Dear Leader
12-07-2018 03:36 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #23
RE: stock contest
(12-07-2018 03:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 02:20 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 12:45 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(11-29-2018 11:45 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(11-26-2018 06:43 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  It seems as though they can vote, so why not?

The overwhelming majority of "dead voters" are cases of mistaken identity(fathers and sons sharing the same name) or other clerical errors, though I am aware of at least one case of an absentee voter dying while their vote was in the mail.

If there was any substance to the talk of voter fraud Dear Leader's voter fraud commission would have found it rather than quickly disbanding after finding, just as they were told, that it is almost entirely a non-issue.

I was talking about clt, not Kim Jong Un.

Who said anything about Kim?

Dear Leader

I have a feeling that you're being intentionally obtuse, but that isn't who I was talking about...
12-07-2018 03:37 PM
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banker Offline
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Post: #24
RE: stock contest
(12-07-2018 03:37 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 03:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 02:20 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 12:45 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(11-29-2018 11:45 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  The overwhelming majority of "dead voters" are cases of mistaken identity(fathers and sons sharing the same name) or other clerical errors, though I am aware of at least one case of an absentee voter dying while their vote was in the mail.

If there was any substance to the talk of voter fraud Dear Leader's voter fraud commission would have found it rather than quickly disbanding after finding, just as they were told, that it is almost entirely a non-issue.

I was talking about clt, not Kim Jong Un.

Who said anything about Kim?

Dear Leader

I have a feeling that you're being intentionally obtuse, but that isn't who I was talking about...

And this isn't the spin room, respectfully, Mr. Moderator.
12-07-2018 10:20 PM
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TechRocks Offline
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Post: #25
RE: stock contest
(12-07-2018 10:20 PM)banker Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 03:37 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 03:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 02:20 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 12:45 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I was talking about clt, not Kim Jong Un.

Who said anything about Kim?

Dear Leader

I have a feeling that you're being intentionally obtuse, but that isn't who I was talking about...

And this isn't the spin room, respectfully, Mr. Moderator.

Yeah, and besides, the Magic Man hasn't been in office for a couple of years now.
12-07-2018 10:32 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #26
RE: stock contest
(12-07-2018 10:32 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 10:20 PM)banker Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 03:37 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 03:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 02:20 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  Who said anything about Kim?

Dear Leader

I have a feeling that you're being intentionally obtuse, but that isn't who I was talking about...

And this isn't the spin room, respectfully, Mr. Moderator.

Yeah, and besides, the Magic Man hasn't been in office for a couple of years now.

Who was the one spouting nonsense about voter fraud? Who was the one that set up a committee to prove that voter fraud was real only to see that committee find that, just as they were told, there is nothing remotely resembling large scale voter fraud?

And on the topic of embodying Dear Leader, who is talking about a state run media outlet?
12-07-2018 11:30 PM
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TechRocks Offline
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Post: #27
RE: stock contest
(12-07-2018 11:30 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 10:32 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 10:20 PM)banker Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 03:37 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 03:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Dear Leader

I have a feeling that you're being intentionally obtuse, but that isn't who I was talking about...

And this isn't the spin room, respectfully, Mr. Moderator.

Yeah, and besides, the Magic Man hasn't been in office for a couple of years now.

Who was the one spouting nonsense about voter fraud? Who was the one that set up a committee to prove that voter fraud was real only to see that committee find that, just as they were told, there is nothing remotely resembling large scale voter fraud?

And on the topic of embodying Dear Leader, who is talking about a state run media outlet?

I see you've modified your stance now to large scale voter fraud. How nice.

When some nationally-important elections are determined by only a hand-full of votes, it doesn't take much voter fraud to give the guy who actually lost the vote, the win. Are okay with that?

My stance is that not a single illegal vote should be tolerated by anyone, ever. Otherwise, the country will be run by cheaters, not by those who campaign on winning ideas.
12-08-2018 08:34 AM
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ghostofclt! Offline
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Post: #28
RE: stock contest
clt isn’t sure where this chat page is headed
12-08-2018 10:45 AM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #29
RE: stock contest
(12-08-2018 08:34 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 11:30 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 10:32 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 10:20 PM)banker Wrote:  
(12-07-2018 03:37 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I have a feeling that you're being intentionally obtuse, but that isn't who I was talking about...

And this isn't the spin room, respectfully, Mr. Moderator.

Yeah, and besides, the Magic Man hasn't been in office for a couple of years now.

Who was the one spouting nonsense about voter fraud? Who was the one that set up a committee to prove that voter fraud was real only to see that committee find that, just as they were told, there is nothing remotely resembling large scale voter fraud?

And on the topic of embodying Dear Leader, who is talking about a state run media outlet?

I see you've modified your stance now to large scale voter fraud. How nice.

When some nationally-important elections are determined by only a hand-full of votes, it doesn't take much voter fraud to give the guy who actually lost the vote, the win. Are okay with that?

My stance is that not a single illegal vote should be tolerated by anyone, ever. Otherwise, the country will be run by cheaters, not by those who campaign on winning ideas.

The scale that any voter fraud happens at in this country at any time is infinitesimal. Every time it is investigated the same results come back, clerical errors by pollsters checking the wrong name in the voter log, there was at least one case of an absentee voter dying while their ballot was in the mail.

Ask yourself this serious question, if there was any actual proof of dead voters or undocumented immigrant voters, why hasn't the Giant Orange come out with it? He loves to talk about it, he put together the committee to prove it was happening and yet, they found nothing, just as they were told they would.

As for cheaters, the current part time resident of 1600 Penn has made his entire career out of bending rules, finding loopholes and swindling people and in some cases, outright cheating, that does not mean he cheated or did anything illegal in the election, but I won't be the slightest bit surprised when it is eventually proven that he did and you shouldn't be either.

As for winning ideas, would you consider campaign promises like "Mexico will pay for it" or "drain the swamp" which were outright lies, "winning ideas"?

(As an aside, I'm moving this thread to the smack board as we have now gone fully off topic, but I am happy to continue this conversation if you are.)
12-08-2018 10:52 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #30
RE: stock contest
I am just surprised that a person who (thinks he) knows so much did not know that Kim Jong Un was known as "Dear Leader" to to the people he rules.

I see now that MTPK was just just trying to throw a slur at a different leader, who has never been called "Dear" by anybody to the best of my knowledge.

But I don't know how this got to be about voter fraud.
12-08-2018 02:27 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #31
RE: stock contest
(12-08-2018 10:52 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  when it is eventually proven that he did

At this point, it appears the closest you will get to proving he "meddled" in the election is that he paid off a couple of mistresses. Neither of them were Russian.

Quote:As for winning ideas, would you consider campaign promises like "Mexico will pay for it" or "drain the swamp" which were outright lies, "winning ideas"?

The wall is stupid, but I am amazed at how long he has held to this.

"Drain the swamp" was originally Nancy Pelosi, I think.

\Campaign promises are usually about 90% lies, by all candidates.
12-08-2018 02:48 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #32
RE: stock contest
(12-08-2018 02:48 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(12-08-2018 10:52 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  when it is eventually proven that he did

At this point, it appears the closest you will get to proving he "meddled" in the election is that he paid off a couple of mistresses. Neither of them were Russian.

Quote:As for winning ideas, would you consider campaign promises like "Mexico will pay for it" or "drain the swamp" which were outright lies, "winning ideas"?

The wall is stupid, but I am amazed at how long he has held to this.

"Drain the swamp" was originally Nancy Pelosi, I think.

\Campaign promises are usually about 90% lies, by all candidates.

I have a feeling that it is far more likely that someone in his campaign meddled than he did personally, but that won't matter if the charge is serious enough. Personally I'm just as concerned he's somehow compromised to the Russians and/or the Saudis, sure would be nice if he kept his promise about releasing his taxes.

As to your second part, I'd call that a major exaggeration, but I cannot recall a direct comparison to "build the wall"(under the further assumption that somehow Mexico will pay for it) that was more unifying and energizing. I do not believe he would have been elected without that promise nor would he have been elected if he said "we're going to build a wall and THE AMERICAN TAXPAYERS WILL PAY FOR IT!".

I don't think he even gets out of the clown car primary without that blatant lie.
12-08-2018 03:04 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #33
RE: stock contest
(12-08-2018 02:27 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am just surprised that a person who (thinks he) knows so much did not know that Kim Jong Un was known as "Dear Leader" to to the people he rules.

I see now that MTPK was just just trying to throw a slur at a different leader, who has never been called "Dear" by anybody to the best of my knowledge.

But I don't know how this got to be about voter fraud.

I'm confused, do you actually believe I don't know the origin of "Dear Leader"? It seems you question my intelligence by positing that I didn't know it, but then later seem to clarify that you realize that my word choice was clearly intentional, meaning that I would have known, right?

(hint: it was intentional)

As to how we got here...

(11-26-2018 06:43 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  
(11-26-2018 05:26 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  can a dead person win? His ghost posts here a lot.

It seems as though they can vote, so why not?
12-08-2018 03:09 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #34
RE: stock contest
(12-08-2018 03:04 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(12-08-2018 02:48 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(12-08-2018 10:52 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  when it is eventually proven that he did

At this point, it appears the closest you will get to proving he "meddled" in the election is that he paid off a couple of mistresses. Neither of them were Russian.

Quote:As for winning ideas, would you consider campaign promises like "Mexico will pay for it" or "drain the swamp" which were outright lies, "winning ideas"?

The wall is stupid, but I am amazed at how long he has held to this.

"Drain the swamp" was originally Nancy Pelosi, I think.

\Campaign promises are usually about 90% lies, by all candidates.

I have a feeling that it is far more likely that someone in his campaign meddled than he did personally, but that won't matter if the charge is serious enough. Personally I'm just as concerned he's somehow compromised to the Russians and/or the Saudis, sure would be nice if he kept his promise about releasing his taxes.

As to your second part, I'd call that a major exaggeration, but I cannot recall a direct comparison to "build the wall"(under the further assumption that somehow Mexico will pay for it) that was more unifying and energizing. I do not believe he would have been elected without that promise nor would he have been elected if he said "we're going to build a wall and THE AMERICAN TAXPAYERS WILL PAY FOR IT!".

I don't think he even gets out of the clown car primary without that blatant lie.

"Somehow" covers a lot of bases. Somehow, I just feel that Susan Rice is a chinese Agent. Somehow.

Nothing shows Trump to be under the russian thumb. Most of his actions vis-a-vis Russia have been against Russia, not for. Of course, somehow, that might be Putin's master plan. Somehow. As for the Saudis, we need all the allies we need in that part of the world.

I don't give a damn about his taxes. I am very familiar with taxes, having done my personal and business tax returns for 45 years. You're not going to find a line that says something like "bribes accepted or given". But I do know the IRS audits every return, and if it is OK with them, it's OK with me. I don't think that somehow he put evidence of fraud out there that you can see and they can't. AFAIAC, BFD.

I have 70+ years experience with Mexico and the Tex-Mex border. I think the Wall is a stupid proposition, thought so from the first time he uttered it. But I can see the allure to people less knowledgeable. The better question for you to answer is "Why was this this promise so resonant with the American people?" It's no worse than "a chicken in every pot", but highly difficult to achieve, which is why I find it odd that he has not forgotten it. In fact, he seems bent on keeping every promise he can, even the ones I wish he would forget. Highly unusual.

But, getting back to the premise of the thread...wait, what was that?
12-08-2018 03:38 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #35
RE: stock contest
The simple matter of fact is, he promised to release his taxes and refuses to do so now, bucking what, roughly half a century of precedent.

It's not a reach to suggest that releasing his taxes would be damaging to him, but perhaps all that it would show is that he's nowhere near as wealthy as he portrays himself, which he might rather be impeached and/or imprisoned than have his ego damaged like that.

That was the quickest and easiest to unpack, but I'll circle back later, probably tomorrow, I'm about to head to the MLS Cup final.

Thanks for the dialogue thus far.
12-08-2018 04:35 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #36
RE: stock contest
(12-08-2018 04:35 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  It's not a reach to suggest that releasing his taxes would be damaging to him, but perhaps all that it would show is that he's nowhere near as wealthy as he portrays himself, which he might rather be impeached and/or imprisoned than have his ego damaged like that.

Well, first, the 1040 is not a measure of net worth (wealth), and will give no clue to his wealth(net worth).

As for damaging, I think they could be, but only in the sense that millions of anti-Trumpers will be allowed to use their ignorance in financial matters to question perfectly ordinary entries. If they were damaging in the tax sense, the IRS is going to catch that, and like I said, there will be no lines specifying "S200 million from Dubai for loosening restrictions on seawater pumps", or whatever you think you can find. I wouldn't release my tax returns either, just because those looking to make trouble for me will misinterpret things and then suspect that "somehow" I was able to hide things.

If you want his net worth, you need a balance sheet, not an income statement. Actually, you need the balance sheets of every business, company, and enterprise he owns and an army of CPAs to decipher them. the 1040 will give you literally zero of what you want.

I am sure being impeached, futile as it is, would be a blow to his ego, just as it was and is to Bill Clinton. But like Bill, the politically aligned votes in the Senate are not there to remove. So like Bill, he would essentially be given a "not Guilty" verdict.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2018 06:17 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
12-08-2018 05:43 PM
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TechRocks Offline
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Post: #37
RE: stock contest
(12-08-2018 10:52 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  The scale that any voter fraud happens at in this country at any time is infinitesimal. Every time it is investigated the same results come back, clerical errors by pollsters checking the wrong name in the voter log, there was at least one case of an absentee voter dying while their ballot was in the mail.

Ask yourself this serious question, if there was any actual proof of dead voters or undocumented immigrant voters, why hasn't the Giant Orange come out with it? He loves to talk about it, he put together the committee to prove it was happening and yet, they found nothing, just as they were told they would.

As for cheaters, the current part time resident of 1600 Penn has made his entire career out of bending rules, finding loopholes and swindling people and in some cases, outright cheating, that does not mean he cheated or did anything illegal in the election, but I won't be the slightest bit surprised when it is eventually proven that he did and you shouldn't be either.

As for winning ideas, would you consider campaign promises like "Mexico will pay for it" or "drain the swamp" which were outright lies, "winning ideas"?

(As an aside, I'm moving this thread to the smack board as we have now gone fully off topic, but I am happy to continue this conversation if you are.)

This is almost too easy.

Here's a handy link:

The Heritage Foundation - Voter Fraud Database

The Heritage Foundation’s Election Fraud Database presents a sampling of proven instances of election fraud from across the country. This database is not an exhaustive or comprehensive list, but is intended to demonstrate the many ways in which fraud is committed. Preventing, deterring, and prosecuting election fraud is essential to protecting the integrity of our voting process.

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

So I clicked on a few key states to see what the database had to say:

Illinois - 3 pages of named individuals with criminal convictions, mostly absentee ballot fraud, ineligible voting, duplicate voting, false regristration, etc.

Florida - 3 pages of named individuals with convictions, altering the vote count, absentee ballot fraud, ineligible voting, false registrations, etc.

California - 3 pages of named individuals with criminal convictions, mostly false registrations, ineligible voting, absentee ballot fraud, the usual suspects.

I could go on, but you get the picture.

Voter fraud is real and it can be used to change election outcomes, especially in those elections where the vote is almost evenly split. Whether the criminal committing the crime is a dim or a pub, it doesn't matter. Any voter fraud is too much voter fraud in my opinion and I applaud any politician who wants to shine light on the subject and do what's possible to put a stop to it.

If you feel differently about the subject, that's your right. ]We'll just have to agree to disagree about its overall importance.

As for politicians lying to get elected, well, knock me over with a feather. I'm shocked. I'm sure you are as well, though I suspect you liked your plan and kept your plan.

Anyway, at the end of the day, there are very few politicians who I have seen ever make a serious effort to complete their campaign promises......and I'm no spring chicken, recalling clearly Barry Goldwater's run for the presidency in 1964. While not initally a supporter of the current president, I've not seen another come close to attempting to complete his campaign promises. Agree or disagree with the campaign promises he made, or his style, you gotta give him that......though I'm sure you won't.
12-08-2018 10:10 PM
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