The unofficial online home for fans of the University of Cincinnati Bearcats. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(11-07-2018 11:47 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 09:43 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 09:38 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 09:37 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 09:01 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  Lol you guys can be ridiculous. Look at every basketball team that left the big east. Louisville, Syracuse, Notre Dame in ACC trash. UConn in this conference trash. Cronin’s kept us alive in a middling conference. First game of a young team with our best player out the whole first half. Relax. UC doesn’t have a penny hardaway waiting at the door who’s going to bring in 5 stars. And the one and done is going away soon anyways. Trash his offense all you want because it gets old but he is a very respectable coach.

Our best player wasn't hurt. He was out because our coach chose to sit him.

Didn’t say he was hurt he got 2 quick fouls.

He can play with two fouls. He played the entire second half with two fouls.

Not gonna take a dog in this fight cause I'm pissed, but Mick made the exact opposite decision vs Nevada and got drilled for it.

You mean leaving Cumberland in with 4 fouls in the second half in a tournament game where it was all going to crap? I think there might be a little difference in the two. Both calls were stupid. Mick can't coach his way out of a paper bag.

(11-07-2018 11:47 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 09:43 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 09:38 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 09:37 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 09:01 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  Lol you guys can be ridiculous. Look at every basketball team that left the big east. Louisville, Syracuse, Notre Dame in ACC trash. UConn in this conference trash. Cronin’s kept us alive in a middling conference. First game of a young team with our best player out the whole first half. Relax. UC doesn’t have a penny hardaway waiting at the door who’s going to bring in 5 stars. And the one and done is going away soon anyways. Trash his offense all you want because it gets old but he is a very respectable coach.

Our best player wasn't hurt. He was out because our coach chose to sit him.

Didn’t say he was hurt he got 2 quick fouls.

He can play with two fouls. He played the entire second half with two fouls.

Not gonna take a dog in this fight cause I'm pissed, but Mick made the exact opposite decision vs Nevada and got drilled for it.

Yup

It is astounding how bare the cupboard is in terms of talent. I don’t understand why good basketball players don’t want to come play at UC.

Also what is the ******* deal with Mamadou??

(11-08-2018 12:09 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  It is astounding how bare the cupboard is in terms of talent. I don’t understand why good basketball players don’t want to come play at UC.

Also what is the ******* deal with Mamadou??

The most damning take I've ever heard about Mick's recruiting came from Tim Adams, who is as reasonable and respected as anyone that has ever covered UC sports.

After the Nevada Disaster, Tim said he doesn't think Mick should be fired, but that he wouldn't want his children to play for Mick. For Tim to say that, after the countless hours he has spent around UC athletics, said a lot to me.

Same old Big Game Mick...

(11-08-2018 12:32 AM)TubaCat Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 12:09 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  It is astounding how bare the cupboard is in terms of talent. I don’t understand why good basketball players don’t want to come play at UC.

Also what is the ******* deal with Mamadou??

The most damning take I've ever heard about Mick's recruiting came from Tim Adams, who is as reasonable and respected as anyone that has ever covered UC sports.

After the Nevada Disaster, Tim said he doesn't think Mick should be fired, but that he wouldn't want his children to play for Mick. For Tim to say that, after the countless hours he has spent around UC athletics, said a lot to me.

I agree with you on Tim Adams... His word carries a lot of weight with me.

I don't understand the "I don't want him to be fired...BUT…" angle. If you wouldn't want "your kid" to play under Mick Cronin, if he's "not a good enough coach" for your kid, then why in the world wouldn't you want him fired from your university? I am deadly serious here. I mean part of the whole appeal that "Mick runs a 'clean program'" is that young men are better served by an exemplary coach. If you're sitting there and can say, with a straight face, "Well, I wouldn't want my kid to go play for him..." then the following sentence ought to be "I hope they fire his ass, sooner than later!"

(11-08-2018 12:43 AM)Blitz0921 Wrote:  Same old Big Game Mick...

Eh, don't worry... The annual "Feast of Cupcakes" begins shortly. Give it a little time and we'll be feeling fat'n'happy again before Xavier reminds us of the pecking order again.

(11-08-2018 12:45 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 12:32 AM)TubaCat Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 12:09 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  It is astounding how bare the cupboard is in terms of talent. I don’t understand why good basketball players don’t want to come play at UC.

Also what is the ******* deal with Mamadou??

The most damning take I've ever heard about Mick's recruiting came from Tim Adams, who is as reasonable and respected as anyone that has ever covered UC sports.

After the Nevada Disaster, Tim said he doesn't think Mick should be fired, but that he wouldn't want his children to play for Mick. For Tim to say that, after the countless hours he has spent around UC athletics, said a lot to me.

I agree with you on Tim Adams... His word carries a lot of weight with me.

I don't understand the "I don't want him to be fired...BUT…" angle. If you wouldn't want "your kid" to play under Mick Cronin, if he's "not a good enough coach" for your kid, then why in the world wouldn't you want him fired from your university? I am deadly serious here. I mean part of the whole appeal that "Mick runs a 'clean program'" is that young men are better served by an exemplary coach. If you're sitting there and can say, with a straight face, "Well, I wouldn't want my kid to go play for him..." then the following sentence ought to be "I hope they fire his ass, sooner than later!"

I hear you, for sure. However, I don't think Mick should be "fired" either... at least not yet. It might look bad for attracting a replacement coach if we fire an alum that always wins 20+ games and takes us to the NCAAT every year while running a clean program.

I think it would be best to simply refuse to give him any more raises or contract extensions until he earns them. The next time he pulls a UNLV-type stunt, we should call his bluff and hope that he actually takes their job offer.

UNLV was a great opportunity for both UC and Mick to move forward and try something new. Now, we have to wait for Mick to either miss a few tournaments, get caught in a scandal, or take a job elsewhere... and none of those sound very likely.

(11-08-2018 01:12 AM)TubaCat Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 12:45 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 12:32 AM)TubaCat Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 12:09 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  It is astounding how bare the cupboard is in terms of talent. I don’t understand why good basketball players don’t want to come play at UC.

Also what is the ******* deal with Mamadou??

The most damning take I've ever heard about Mick's recruiting came from Tim Adams, who is as reasonable and respected as anyone that has ever covered UC sports.

After the Nevada Disaster, Tim said he doesn't think Mick should be fired, but that he wouldn't want his children to play for Mick. For Tim to say that, after the countless hours he has spent around UC athletics, said a lot to me.

I agree with you on Tim Adams... His word carries a lot of weight with me.

I don't understand the "I don't want him to be fired...BUT…" angle. If you wouldn't want "your kid" to play under Mick Cronin, if he's "not a good enough coach" for your kid, then why in the world wouldn't you want him fired from your university? I am deadly serious here. I mean part of the whole appeal that "Mick runs a 'clean program'" is that young men are better served by an exemplary coach. If you're sitting there and can say, with a straight face, "Well, I wouldn't want my kid to go play for him..." then the following sentence ought to be "I hope they fire his ass, sooner than later!"

I hear you, for sure. However, I don't think Mick should be "fired" either... at least not yet. It might look bad for attracting a replacement coach if we fire an alum that always wins 20+ games and takes us to the NCAAT every year while running a clean program.

I think it would be best to simply refuse to give him any more raises or contract extensions until he earns them. The next time he pulls a UNLV-type stunt, we should call his bluff and hope that he actually takes their job offer.

UNLV was a great opportunity for both UC and Mick to move forward and try something new. Now, we have to wait for Mick to either miss a few tournaments, get caught in a scandal, or take a job elsewhere... and none of those sound very likely.

I cant agree with this philosophy. Either you have your guy and you want to keep or get rid of him. This is such a typical Cincinnati sports mentality, to just keep him around until he completely bellies up or leaves on his own. This is the same mentality that kept TT around for 4 years when alot of us knew very early on something was wrong.

With that said, Bohn should have his feelers out on who would be a realistic replacement and making a good evaluation on if it is worth taking that step. There is no point in making this move only to make a Pittesque Kevin Stallings hire. He needs to have a Luke Fickell type waiting in the wings.

(11-08-2018 12:09 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  It is astounding how bare the cupboard is in terms of talent. I don’t understand why good basketball players don’t want to come play at UC.

Also what is the ******* deal with Mamadou??

Mick has publically stated this is a developmental basketball program. This means they will recruit guys with certain attributes and attempt to develop them into better basketball players over 4-5 years.

For whatever reason, I think the Lance Stephenson experiment coupled with the the development of guys like Sk, Gary and Jacob have cemented how this program will continue to recruit going forward. The downside
To this system is that not you are not going to be able to mold all these guys into a Gary Clark. For every Gary you are going to have 2-3 Quadru Moore’s.

(11-07-2018 11:47 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 09:43 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 09:38 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 09:37 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 09:01 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  Lol you guys can be ridiculous. Look at every basketball team that left the big east. Louisville, Syracuse, Notre Dame in ACC trash. UConn in this conference trash. Cronin’s kept us alive in a middling conference. First game of a young team with our best player out the whole first half. Relax. UC doesn’t have a penny hardaway waiting at the door who’s going to bring in 5 stars. And the one and done is going away soon anyways. Trash his offense all you want because it gets old but he is a very respectable coach.

Our best player wasn't hurt. He was out because our coach chose to sit him.

Didn’t say he was hurt he got 2 quick fouls.

He can play with two fouls. He played the entire second half with two fouls.

Not gonna take a dog in this fight cause I'm pissed, but Mick made the exact opposite decision vs Nevada and got drilled for it.

Despite fouling out it was the right decision against Nevada. Though it's a different situation.

(11-08-2018 12:09 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  It is astounding how bare the cupboard is in terms of talent. I don’t understand why good basketball players don’t want to come play at UC.

Also what is the ******* deal with Mamadou??

Because Cronin is the coach and has no cred--so the blue chips choose to go where they have a shot at post-season glory.

If you can't pull in the kids, you can't make noise in March. We have 12 years of data to support this.

(11-07-2018 09:01 PM)jarr Wrote:  Real quote

"If we gave up 27 in the second half we win the game,"

Such fallacious logic.

(11-07-2018 11:47 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 09:43 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 09:38 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 09:37 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 09:01 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  Lol you guys can be ridiculous. Look at every basketball team that left the big east. Louisville, Syracuse, Notre Dame in ACC trash. UConn in this conference trash. Cronin’s kept us alive in a middling conference. First game of a young team with our best player out the whole first half. Relax. UC doesn’t have a penny hardaway waiting at the door who’s going to bring in 5 stars. And the one and done is going away soon anyways. Trash his offense all you want because it gets old but he is a very respectable coach.

Our best player wasn't hurt. He was out because our coach chose to sit him.

Didn’t say he was hurt he got 2 quick fouls.

He can play with two fouls. He played the entire second half with two fouls.

Not gonna take a dog in this fight cause I'm pissed, but Mick made the exact opposite decision vs Nevada and got drilled for it.

One was first half autobench. The other was fourth foul late in the game. I would never take the player out in either situation.

Pros

From Cincinnati/UC
Resurrected the program during a difficult time
Over 20 wins last 8 years
NCAA tournament 8 years in a row
Graduates players
Players stay out of trouble
Has sent some players to the NBA

Cons

Only got past the NCAA first round twice
Has trouble recruiting elite talent
Doesn't believe offense makes a difference
Apparent lack of offensive coaching skills
Resistant to change/stubborn
Says a lot of strange things in postgame comments/interviews
Odd substitution patterns

CallMeSlim ' Wrote:  ive never seen a coach pull the star player less than 2 minutes in after picking up 1 foul.

OK. I'll defend Mick on this one. Thought it was a good move to send a message to Jarron, who is hard headed at times - he was exploring going to the NBA after his freshman year. I know he has been told to be smarter on the court, especially when it comes to picking up fouls. I think Mick snapped when he was called and instinctively yanked him.

(11-08-2018 07:56 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  Pros

From Cincinnati/UC
Resurrected the program during a difficult time
Over 20 wins last 8 years
NCAA tournament 8 years in a row
Graduates players
Players stay out of trouble
Has sent some players to the NBA

Cons

Only got past the NCAA first round twice
Has trouble recruiting elite talent
Doesn't believe offense makes a difference
Apparent lack of offensive coaching skills
Resistant to change/stubborn
Says a lot of strange things in postgame comments/interviews
Odd substitution patterns

At least one of your pros is blatantly wrong. He's been past the first round 5 times off the top of my head. Only been to the sweet 16 once.

(11-08-2018 03:22 AM)jarr Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 01:12 AM)TubaCat Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 12:45 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 12:32 AM)TubaCat Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 12:09 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  It is astounding how bare the cupboard is in terms of talent. I don’t understand why good basketball players don’t want to come play at UC.

Also what is the ******* deal with Mamadou??

The most damning take I've ever heard about Mick's recruiting came from Tim Adams, who is as reasonable and respected as anyone that has ever covered UC sports.

After the Nevada Disaster, Tim said he doesn't think Mick should be fired, but that he wouldn't want his children to play for Mick. For Tim to say that, after the countless hours he has spent around UC athletics, said a lot to me.

I agree with you on Tim Adams... His word carries a lot of weight with me.

I don't understand the "I don't want him to be fired...BUT…" angle. If you wouldn't want "your kid" to play under Mick Cronin, if he's "not a good enough coach" for your kid, then why in the world wouldn't you want him fired from your university? I am deadly serious here. I mean part of the whole appeal that "Mick runs a 'clean program'" is that young men are better served by an exemplary coach. If you're sitting there and can say, with a straight face, "Well, I wouldn't want my kid to go play for him..." then the following sentence ought to be "I hope they fire his ass, sooner than later!"

I hear you, for sure. However, I don't think Mick should be "fired" either... at least not yet. It might look bad for attracting a replacement coach if we fire an alum that always wins 20+ games and takes us to the NCAAT every year while running a clean program.

I think it would be best to simply refuse to give him any more raises or contract extensions until he earns them. The next time he pulls a UNLV-type stunt, we should call his bluff and hope that he actually takes their job offer.

UNLV was a great opportunity for both UC and Mick to move forward and try something new. Now, we have to wait for Mick to either miss a few tournaments, get caught in a scandal, or take a job elsewhere... and none of those sound very likely.

I cant agree with this philosophy. Either you have your guy and you want to keep or get rid of him. This is such a typical Cincinnati sports mentality, to just keep him around until he completely bellies up or leaves on his own. This is the same mentality that kept TT around for 4 years when alot of us knew very early on something was wrong.

With that said, Bohn should have his feelers out on who would be a realistic replacement and making a good evaluation on if it is worth taking that step. There is no point in making this move only to make a Pittesque Kevin Stallings hire. He needs to have a Luke Fickell type waiting in the wings.

Bolded, I agree with your analysis. Leaders can't keep under-performing employees around waiting, wishing and hoping for them to move on. Most all of us have acknowledged Mick's rebuild and the work he did to make UC basketball respectable again, on and off the court.

But there is wisdom in the old definition of insanity--continuing the same actions and expecting different results. How can a high major team come out on opening night for one of the biggest home games in years and shoot 14% in the first half? And this wasn't against Duke or Kentucky but against an unranked OSU team; a team picked by some experts to finish tenth in the B10.

A friend who is a big college basketball fan, not a UC friend or foe per se, texted me late in the game and commented about how poor UC players' shooting form was. He praised the defense and hustle but was shocked by the poor technique and offensive ineptitude. Of course we've grown accustomed to it. How many Shootouts have we witnessed where X came out on fire and buried UC before halftime?

The parallels with Marvin are correct. That both coaches have survived so long in the same city suggests to me that as fans we've become comfortable settling for good performance rather than demanding a progression toward great performance. Many here knew once Evans left with the seniors, this team's scoring ability was a looming disaster. Our worst fears were realized last night. Sadly, it wouldn't have taken a world class offense to win when it was all said and done.

(11-08-2018 08:03 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 07:56 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  Pros

From Cincinnati/UC
Resurrected the program during a difficult time
Over 20 wins last 8 years
NCAA tournament 8 years in a row
Graduates players
Players stay out of trouble
Has sent some players to the NBA

Cons

Only got past the NCAA first round twice
Has trouble recruiting elite talent
Doesn't believe offense makes a difference
Apparent lack of offensive coaching skills
Resistant to change/stubborn
Says a lot of strange things in postgame comments/interviews
Odd substitution patterns

At least one of your pros is blatantly wrong. He's been past the first round 5 times off the top of my head. Only been to the sweet 16 once.

I guess I wrote it in a hurry. Here is the actual NCAA history for Mick Cronin. And it was a con, not a pro. I suppose I should have written -

Only got past the second round once.

Mick Cronin (Big East Conference) (2006–2013)
2006–07 Cincinnati 11–19 2–14 16th
2007–08 Cincinnati 13–19 8–10 10th CBI First round
2008–09 Cincinnati 18–14 8–10 10th
2009–10 Cincinnati 19–16 7–11 11th NIT Second round
2010–11 Cincinnati 26–9 11–7 6th NCAA Second Round
2011–12 Cincinnati 26–11 12–6 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2012–13 Cincinnati 22–12 9–9 8th NCAA First Round
Mick Cronin (American Athletic Conference) (2013–present)
2013–14 Cincinnati 27–7 15–3 T-1st NCAA First Round
2014–15 Cincinnati 23–11 13–5 3rd NCAA First Round
2015–16 Cincinnati 22–11 12–6 3rd NCAA Round of 64
2016–17 Cincinnati 30–6 16–2 2nd NCAA Round of 32
2017–18 Cincinnati 31–5 16–2 1st NCAA Round of 32


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati...basketball

Mick Cronin = Rick Minter