Tribal
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Vote for Nick Muse
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2018 06:47 PM by Tribal.)
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10-23-2018 06:44 PM |
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Zorch
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RE: Vote for Nick Muse
Hmm, if they had covered up the names and shown just the stats then no way I would have voted for Muse. He has only 1 TD. The others have 2, 3, 4, and 6. Too bad Muse missed time with injury; he would hopefully have had more TDs and definitely would have had more yards -- thus making it much more apparent that he was the best.
Oh - and yes I did vote for Muse.
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2018 10:52 PM by Zorch.)
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10-23-2018 10:51 PM |
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Tribal
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Vote for Nick Muse
Nick is catching up
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10-24-2018 06:16 AM |
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Rocco
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RE: Vote for Nick Muse
Measuring a player solely by TDs is really flawed.
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10-24-2018 07:07 AM |
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Tribedad18
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RE: Vote for Nick Muse
(10-24-2018 06:16 AM)Tribal Wrote: Nick is catching up
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It's a dead heat.
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10-24-2018 07:08 AM |
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TheRealTribe
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RE: Vote for Nick Muse
(10-24-2018 07:07 AM)Rocco Wrote: Measuring a player solely by TDs is really flawed.
For many reasons.
Also, Nick's other stats are best or second best in this group across the board.
I know the Villanova player is a very good senior, we will get a heavy dose of him in a few weeks. I don't remember the other players. I think Muse will be something special by his senior year.
Either way, it is comforting to have a player be considered one of the top at their position in the conference and only be a Sophomore. With so many young contributors last year and this year, I think Tribe football will average back out in the coming years.
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10-24-2018 08:16 AM |
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Zorch
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RE: Vote for Nick Muse
(10-24-2018 07:07 AM)Rocco Wrote: Measuring a player solely by TDs is really flawed.
My post does not say that I judged the players SOLELY by TDs. But TDs is an important stat and Muse was in last place out of that group. He didn't even have the top yardage to compensate. At the past-halfway point of the season there is a huge difference between 6 TDs and 1 TD. I like a guy who is reliable near the end zone and can be the go-to guy in the red zone. Hopefully Muse will develop into that guy.
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10-24-2018 11:29 AM |
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Tribal
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Vote for Nick Muse
The only player on that list who even comes close to Muse is the Villanova TE, Bell. Both Muse and Bell have only played part of the season (Muse 4 games and Bell 3 games) and I don't know if those are complete games for either. Both are exceptional TEs but only one has years of CAA ball remaining and only one will win this honor because we are better fans. Period.
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10-24-2018 12:00 PM |
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Rocco
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RE: Vote for Nick Muse
(10-24-2018 11:29 AM)Zorch Wrote: (10-24-2018 07:07 AM)Rocco Wrote: Measuring a player solely by TDs is really flawed.
My post does not say that I judged the players SOLELY by TDs. But TDs is an important stat and Muse was in last place out of that group. He didn't even have the top yardage to compensate. At the past-halfway point of the season there is a huge difference between 6 TDs and 1 TD. I like a guy who is reliable near the end zone and can be the go-to guy in the red zone. Hopefully Muse will develop into that guy.
a) He most certainly has the most yardage; his YAC is behind someone with 8 whole catches.
b) Player 1 has 53 catches for 812 yards and no TDs. Player 2 has 30 catches for 438 yards and 5 TDs. Does the statistical oddity of not having any TDs outweigh having almost twice as many catches and yards? TDs in many ways are a function of red zone targets and luck. This is a bad offense that doesn't get into the red zone and has zero luck.
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10-24-2018 12:46 PM |
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Zorch
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RE: Vote for Nick Muse
(10-24-2018 12:46 PM)Rocco Wrote: (10-24-2018 11:29 AM)Zorch Wrote: (10-24-2018 07:07 AM)Rocco Wrote: Measuring a player solely by TDs is really flawed.
My post does not say that I judged the players SOLELY by TDs. But TDs is an important stat and Muse was in last place out of that group. He didn't even have the top yardage to compensate. At the past-halfway point of the season there is a huge difference between 6 TDs and 1 TD. I like a guy who is reliable near the end zone and can be the go-to guy in the red zone. Hopefully Muse will develop into that guy.
a) He most certainly has the most yardage; his YAC is behind someone with 8 whole catches.
b) Player 1 has 53 catches for 812 yards and no TDs. Player 2 has 30 catches for 438 yards and 5 TDs. Does the statistical oddity of not having any TDs outweigh having almost twice as many catches and yards? TDs in many ways are a function of red zone targets and luck. This is a bad offense that doesn't get into the red zone and has zero luck.
a) I did not re-look at the table before I replied, my bad. Other receivers on the list do have the most yards per game and yards per reception, if not the total yards that Muse has. YAC means yards after the catch, which isn't even shown on the chart.
b) in your example, I say yes. 5 TDs with half as many yards does outweigh 0 TDs with more yards. I shouldn't need to state the obvious that it is all about scoring. Don't score, don't win. The proof is in the very stats that you post often on the board, Rocco, and when you say that this is a bad offense that doesn't get into the end zone. Well then, okay, maybe I favor receivers who do get into the end zone (talking generally here, not knocking Muse in any way; not sure how this conversation veered off, anyway). What is the use of throwing a 60-yard bomb and getting tackled on the 5-yard line and then the inept offense fails to score from there? Give me a guy (Rich Musinski comes to mind) who can get open, sniff the pay dirt, and get the ball over the line. As I said, I hope Muse develops into that guy.
c) just as an aside, it is interesting to observe that your Player 1 would have 81.2 points in the fantasy football league that I play in (1 point for every ten yards, 6 points for every TD). Player 2 would have 73.8 -- almost as many points considering half the yardage total. Perhaps your league also awards points for receptions; mine doesn't, since total receptions is meaningless in real football. (Kind of like how all those 3-yard dink passes never seem to add up to much at Zable).
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10-24-2018 05:19 PM |
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Rocco
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RE: Vote for Nick Muse
(10-24-2018 05:19 PM)Zorch Wrote: (10-24-2018 12:46 PM)Rocco Wrote: (10-24-2018 11:29 AM)Zorch Wrote: (10-24-2018 07:07 AM)Rocco Wrote: Measuring a player solely by TDs is really flawed.
My post does not say that I judged the players SOLELY by TDs. But TDs is an important stat and Muse was in last place out of that group. He didn't even have the top yardage to compensate. At the past-halfway point of the season there is a huge difference between 6 TDs and 1 TD. I like a guy who is reliable near the end zone and can be the go-to guy in the red zone. Hopefully Muse will develop into that guy.
a) He most certainly has the most yardage; his YAC is behind someone with 8 whole catches.
b) Player 1 has 53 catches for 812 yards and no TDs. Player 2 has 30 catches for 438 yards and 5 TDs. Does the statistical oddity of not having any TDs outweigh having almost twice as many catches and yards? TDs in many ways are a function of red zone targets and luck. This is a bad offense that doesn't get into the red zone and has zero luck.
a) I did not re-look at the table before I replied, my bad. Other receivers on the list do have the most yards per game and yards per reception, if not the total yards that Muse has. YAC means yards after the catch, which isn't even shown on the chart.
b) in your example, I say yes. 5 TDs with half as many yards does outweigh 0 TDs with more yards. I shouldn't need to state the obvious that it is all about scoring. Don't score, don't win. The proof is in the very stats that you post often on the board, Rocco, and when you say that this is a bad offense that doesn't get into the end zone. Well then, okay, maybe I favor receivers who do get into the end zone (talking generally here, not knocking Muse in any way; not sure how this conversation veered off, anyway). What is the use of throwing a 60-yard bomb and getting tackled on the 5-yard line and then the inept offense fails to score from there? Give me a guy (Rich Musinski comes to mind) who can get open, sniff the pay dirt, and get the ball over the line. As I said, I hope Muse develops into that guy.
c) just as an aside, it is interesting to observe that your Player 1 would have 81.2 points in the fantasy football league that I play in (1 point for every ten yards, 6 points for every TD). Player 2 would have 73.8 -- almost as many points considering half the yardage total. Perhaps your league also awards points for receptions; mine doesn't, since total receptions is meaningless in real football. (Kind of like how all those 3-yard dink passes never seem to add up to much at Zable).
A)Typed YAC, meant YPC. Brainfart that I should have caught.
B)Congrats, you're the one person on the planet who would rather have Cooper Kupp over Julio Jones.
C)I think that proves that fantasy football, while fun, warps our view of value and good football players. TDs are way more random than catches and yards. Jerry Rice had 22 TDs in 1987. He had 9 in 1988. Did he forget how to find the end zone only to remember in 1989 when he led the league in TDs again? Or did he just get unlucky with where he was tackled and red zone targets? Muse doesn't have a lot of TDs because the offense can't consistently move the ball. Delaware's offense averages 14 more points a game. This isn't rocket science.
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10-24-2018 06:20 PM |
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Zorch
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RE: Vote for Nick Muse
(10-24-2018 06:20 PM)Rocco Wrote: (10-24-2018 05:19 PM)Zorch Wrote: (10-24-2018 12:46 PM)Rocco Wrote: (10-24-2018 11:29 AM)Zorch Wrote: (10-24-2018 07:07 AM)Rocco Wrote: Measuring a player solely by TDs is really flawed.
My post does not say that I judged the players SOLELY by TDs. But TDs is an important stat and Muse was in last place out of that group. He didn't even have the top yardage to compensate. At the past-halfway point of the season there is a huge difference between 6 TDs and 1 TD. I like a guy who is reliable near the end zone and can be the go-to guy in the red zone. Hopefully Muse will develop into that guy.
a) He most certainly has the most yardage; his YAC is behind someone with 8 whole catches.
b) Player 1 has 53 catches for 812 yards and no TDs. Player 2 has 30 catches for 438 yards and 5 TDs. Does the statistical oddity of not having any TDs outweigh having almost twice as many catches and yards? TDs in many ways are a function of red zone targets and luck. This is a bad offense that doesn't get into the red zone and has zero luck.
a) I did not re-look at the table before I replied, my bad. Other receivers on the list do have the most yards per game and yards per reception, if not the total yards that Muse has. YAC means yards after the catch, which isn't even shown on the chart.
b) in your example, I say yes. 5 TDs with half as many yards does outweigh 0 TDs with more yards. I shouldn't need to state the obvious that it is all about scoring. Don't score, don't win. The proof is in the very stats that you post often on the board, Rocco, and when you say that this is a bad offense that doesn't get into the end zone. Well then, okay, maybe I favor receivers who do get into the end zone (talking generally here, not knocking Muse in any way; not sure how this conversation veered off, anyway). What is the use of throwing a 60-yard bomb and getting tackled on the 5-yard line and then the inept offense fails to score from there? Give me a guy (Rich Musinski comes to mind) who can get open, sniff the pay dirt, and get the ball over the line. As I said, I hope Muse develops into that guy.
c) just as an aside, it is interesting to observe that your Player 1 would have 81.2 points in the fantasy football league that I play in (1 point for every ten yards, 6 points for every TD). Player 2 would have 73.8 -- almost as many points considering half the yardage total. Perhaps your league also awards points for receptions; mine doesn't, since total receptions is meaningless in real football. (Kind of like how all those 3-yard dink passes never seem to add up to much at Zable).
A)Typed YAC, meant YPC. Brainfart that I should have caught.
B)Congrats, you're the one person on the planet who would rather have Cooper Kupp over Julio Jones.
C)I think that proves that fantasy football, while fun, warps our view of value and good football players. TDs are way more random than catches and yards. Jerry Rice had 22 TDs in 1987. He had 9 in 1988. Did he forget how to find the end zone only to remember in 1989 when he led the league in TDs again? Or did he just get unlucky with where he was tackled and red zone targets? Muse doesn't have a lot of TDs because the offense can't consistently move the ball. Delaware's offense averages 14 more points a game. This isn't rocket science.
When it comes to Jerry Rice scoring touchdowns, there is nothing "random" about it. Both Joe Montana and Steve Young were smart enough to know who to throw the ball to. I guess it comes down to whether you think Jerry Rice is the greatest receiver of all time because he amassed the most yardage (22,895, to Tony Gonzalez's 15,127) or because he scored the most receiving touchdowns (197, to Randy Moss' 156) (and most total touchdowns (208, to Emmitt Smith's 175)). We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
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10-24-2018 07:53 PM |
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Tribal
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Vote for Nick Muse
I vote for his brother to join the Tribe
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(This post was last modified: 10-24-2018 07:57 PM by Tribal.)
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10-24-2018 07:57 PM |
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Zorch
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RE: Vote for Nick Muse
(10-24-2018 07:57 PM)Tribal Wrote: I vote for his brother to join the Tribe
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Point well taken -- but his brother is probably too old and has slowed down a couple of steps. How about his son? (I think I did hear that his son went to college recently).
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10-24-2018 08:05 PM |
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Tribal
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Vote for Nick Muse
Nick's brother. The one at Clemson.
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10-25-2018 03:14 AM |
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3xTribe
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RE: Vote for Nick Muse
(10-25-2018 03:14 AM)Tribal Wrote: Nick's brother. The one at Clemson.
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My son was a Clemson undergrad and current W&M grad student. He is a BIG fan of the Muse family.
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2018 08:37 AM by 3xTribe.)
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10-25-2018 08:37 AM |
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Tribeheart
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10-25-2018 02:31 PM |
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