(09-10-2018 11:51 AM)owl95 Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 11:10 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 11:02 AM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 10:20 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 10:11 AM)owl95 Wrote:  Duke has really climbed in my lifetime. When i was at Rice in the early 90's, Duke was barely a top 20 school and now they are sitting at #8.

The difference between Duke and us over the past 30+ years...

1. Their success in basketball has made it a more attractive destination for quality northeastern students.

2. Law school, med school, much larger business school

3. Alumni giving participation rates in the mid-to-upper 30% range vs. upper 20% - low 30% range for Rice.

I've been always disappointed with the alumni office's efforts to improve giving participation rates. It should be emphasized, ad nauseum, that these matter for rankings. Instead, it used to *not even be mentioned* (!!!) in our marketing materials, and even now, I find only passing references in the middle of a paragraph somewhere.

Instead, there need to be emails, etc. asking for gifts where the subject of the email emphasizes how much even a $1 gift matters

They emphasize it to young alums quite frequently. You’d be amazed how many of my classmates say “I’ll never give $1 to Rice”.

Classmates in my generation, even though tuition was relatively affordable back then, used to say that too..hell, I used to say it. You know what brought me back? Athletics, specifically football in 2006 and 2008. This is what I keep saying athletics can do for the University in terms of alumni engagement, but while we aren't getting that benefit right now as things are..dropping to DIII will definitely make it worse amongst my peer group, and it certainly won't make it better.

Have giving rates really changed that much over the years? It was even more affordable in my generation, but there are those from my era who don't give, don't give regularly, or (my favorite) can't be bothered.

If Rice ever does drop from D1 athletics (officially, not figuratively), it will no longer be the University I attended and have supported for 40+ years. My support will certainly drop if that ever happens.

(09-10-2018 02:00 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 11:51 AM)owl95 Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 11:10 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 11:02 AM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 10:20 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  The difference between Duke and us over the past 30+ years...

1. Their success in basketball has made it a more attractive destination for quality northeastern students.

2. Law school, med school, much larger business school

3. Alumni giving participation rates in the mid-to-upper 30% range vs. upper 20% - low 30% range for Rice.

I've been always disappointed with the alumni office's efforts to improve giving participation rates. It should be emphasized, ad nauseum, that these matter for rankings. Instead, it used to *not even be mentioned* (!!!) in our marketing materials, and even now, I find only passing references in the middle of a paragraph somewhere.

Instead, there need to be emails, etc. asking for gifts where the subject of the email emphasizes how much even a $1 gift matters

They emphasize it to young alums quite frequently. You’d be amazed how many of my classmates say “I’ll never give $1 to Rice”.

Classmates in my generation, even though tuition was relatively affordable back then, used to say that too..hell, I used to say it. You know what brought me back? Athletics, specifically football in 2006 and 2008. This is what I keep saying athletics can do for the University in terms of alumni engagement, but while we aren't getting that benefit right now as things are..dropping to DIII will definitely make it worse amongst my peer group, and it certainly won't make it better.

Have giving rates really changed that much over the years? It was even more affordable in my generation, but there are those from my era who don't give, don't give regularly, or (my favorite) can't be bothered.

If Rice ever does drop from D1 athletics (officially, not figuratively), it will no longer be the University I attended and have supported for 40+ years. My support will certainly drop if that ever happens.

Maybe this current generation's #1 happiness rating will lead to more giving. I know that whatever the ratings said in my era, many of my peers graduated with love/hate feelings(probably too complex to discuss here) towards the school and that led to apathy towards giving. I do know for a fact that athletics is one of the sure ways to get them to engage and talk about Rice.

Edit: Are my peers and friends from my class hardcore about Rice athletics? Not really but my ex-roommate that lives in Austin traveled to New Orleans for the Bowl in 2006 and roadtripped to Houston to attend the Texas Bowl with me in 2008 and he's come to one of the watch parties at Jake's with his kid when he happened to be in town during football season. One of my other ex-roommates who lives in the Bay Area and has only been back to Houston once since he graduated trekked to U of San Francisco to watch the Rice basketball game in Rhoades' 2nd year after i told him about it, even though he hadn't seen a Rice MBB game in 20 years. Unlikely to see them at any other Rice event.

Editx2: Rice drops athletics to D3, you will never see them again. It's not a threat, but their interest level will just go from somewhat low to zero. On the other hand, top 25 rating in football, NCAA mbb run, they might open their wallets. I am pretty sure they are not atypical for alumni of my generation.

I'm quite certain that the proportion of students who love/hate their undergrad or grad experience at Rice is not all that different from any of these other schools (some of which are D3).
And yet giving rates are different.
Could it be that marketing (like coaching) matters?
Hmmm

FWIW almost all of the NESCAC schools have higher giving rates than us and they are all D3.

I think athletic performance definitely affects giving at big state universities but I think its effect at elite institutions is debatable.

(09-10-2018 03:32 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  FWIW almost all of the NESCAC schools have higher giving rates than us and they are all D3.

I think athletic performance definitely affects giving at big state universities but I think its effect at elite institutions is debatable.

And the SWC days are over. IMO, theres a marked difference between SWC alums and post SWC alums. The former can be enticed back by wins and stuff, the latter simply do not care.

(09-10-2018 03:37 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 03:32 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  FWIW almost all of the NESCAC schools have higher giving rates than us and they are all D3.

I think athletic performance definitely affects giving at big state universities but I think its effect at elite institutions is debatable.

And the SWC days are over. IMO, theres a marked difference between SWC alums and post SWC alums. The former can be enticed back by wins and stuff, the latter simply do not care.

Maybe, maybe not. I think we could do better than we're doing with young alums but there's certainly a ceiling. This isn't a Rice specific problem. The crowds at SMU, UT, etc aren't full of young alums either.

I do think it'd be worthwhile though to investigate what NESCAC schools are doing better than us outside of athletics to attract donations.

(09-10-2018 03:32 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  FWIW almost all of the NESCAC schools have higher giving rates than us and they are all D3.

I think athletic performance definitely affects giving at big state universities but I think its effect at elite institutions is debatable.

I think there are several factors. I’m guessing donations have increased for Duke since coach K took over.

Rice alums aren’t nearly as focused on the “Rice network” as other alumni communities. Not sure what drives that... maybe the type of student we attract? Lack of any solid athletics besides baseball for 40 years? Small school? Residential colleges detract from “Rice spirit”? Do we consider ourselves above it?

Around the office:
UH alums have a lot less to brag about but are very noticeable in my office.
Aggies are the “best” at it. Obnoxiously so. And it will only get worse with their 75k students vision.
Longhorns aren’t as aggressive about it but there are enough you know they are around
Rice- silence. I know multiple Rice people but you’d never know they went to Rice.

All the ivies like to talk about their degree and network after school, I’d wager there’s a direct correlation between that and donations.

I just don't think there is an active effort to drive the kind of alumni (OK, former students) loyalty that you see at aTm.

(09-10-2018 03:57 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I just don't think there is an active effort to drive the kind of alumni (OK, former students) loyalty that you see at aTm.

Despite all the Aggie bluster, our giving rate is actually better.

I'm happy we stayed above Notre Dame. If we ever swap places I'll never hear the end of it from my daughter.

(09-10-2018 04:00 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 03:57 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I just don't think there is an active effort to drive the kind of alumni (OK, former students) loyalty that you see at aTm.

Despite all the Aggie bluster, our giving rate is actually better.

By percentage I’m not surprised, but they also graduate the equivalent of 17 Rice classes per year so they don’t need a high percentage.

(09-10-2018 03:47 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 03:32 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  FWIW almost all of the NESCAC schools have higher giving rates than us and they are all D3.

I think athletic performance definitely affects giving at big state universities but I think its effect at elite institutions is debatable.

I think there are several factors. I’m guessing donations have increased for Duke since coach K took over.

Rice alums aren’t nearly as focused on the “Rice network” as other alumni communities. Not sure what drives that... maybe the type of student we attract? Lack of any solid athletics besides baseball for 40 years? Small school? Residential colleges detract from “Rice spirit”? Do we consider ourselves above it?

Around the office:
UH alums have a lot less to brag about but are very noticeable in my office.
Aggies are the “best” at it. Obnoxiously so. And it will only get worse with their 75k students vision.
Longhorns aren’t as aggressive about it but there are enough you know they are around
Rice- silence. I know multiple Rice people but you’d never know they went to Rice.

All the ivies like to talk about their degree and network after school, I’d wager there’s a direct correlation between that and donations.

In this sense, I feel like our best comp is Emory. Both competitive, private universities located in large, southern metropolitan areas surrounded by lots of obnoxious schools.

(09-10-2018 05:43 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 03:47 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 03:32 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  FWIW almost all of the NESCAC schools have higher giving rates than us and they are all D3.

I think athletic performance definitely affects giving at big state universities but I think its effect at elite institutions is debatable.

I think there are several factors. I’m guessing donations have increased for Duke since coach K took over.

Rice alums aren’t nearly as focused on the “Rice network” as other alumni communities. Not sure what drives that... maybe the type of student we attract? Lack of any solid athletics besides baseball for 40 years? Small school? Residential colleges detract from “Rice spirit”? Do we consider ourselves above it?

Around the office:
UH alums have a lot less to brag about but are very noticeable in my office.
Aggies are the “best” at it. Obnoxiously so. And it will only get worse with their 75k students vision.
Longhorns aren’t as aggressive about it but there are enough you know they are around
Rice- silence. I know multiple Rice people but you’d never know they went to Rice.

All the ivies like to talk about their degree and network after school, I’d wager there’s a direct correlation between that and donations.

In this sense, I feel like our best comp is Emory. Both competitive, private universities located in large, southern metropolitan areas surrounded by lots of obnoxious schools.

Settings are similar. Very different student bodies since they don’t have engineering. Kids not in the top 25% of my HS class still got into Emory.

(09-10-2018 05:52 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 05:43 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 03:47 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 03:32 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  FWIW almost all of the NESCAC schools have higher giving rates than us and they are all D3.

I think athletic performance definitely affects giving at big state universities but I think its effect at elite institutions is debatable.

I think there are several factors. I’m guessing donations have increased for Duke since coach K took over.

Rice alums aren’t nearly as focused on the “Rice network” as other alumni communities. Not sure what drives that... maybe the type of student we attract? Lack of any solid athletics besides baseball for 40 years? Small school? Residential colleges detract from “Rice spirit”? Do we consider ourselves above it?

Around the office:
UH alums have a lot less to brag about but are very noticeable in my office.
Aggies are the “best” at it. Obnoxiously so. And it will only get worse with their 75k students vision.
Longhorns aren’t as aggressive about it but there are enough you know they are around
Rice- silence. I know multiple Rice people but you’d never know they went to Rice.

All the ivies like to talk about their degree and network after school, I’d wager there’s a direct correlation between that and donations.

In this sense, I feel like our best comp is Emory. Both competitive, private universities located in large, southern metropolitan areas surrounded by lots of obnoxious schools.

Settings are similar. Very different student bodies since they don’t have engineering. Kids not in the top 25% of my HS class still got into Emory.

Well you must’ve gone to an incredibly competitive high school then.

By most metrics, Emory isn’t too, too far behind us then.

(09-10-2018 06:02 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 05:52 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 05:43 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 03:47 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 03:32 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  FWIW almost all of the NESCAC schools have higher giving rates than us and they are all D3.

I think athletic performance definitely affects giving at big state universities but I think its effect at elite institutions is debatable.

I think there are several factors. I’m guessing donations have increased for Duke since coach K took over.

Rice alums aren’t nearly as focused on the “Rice network” as other alumni communities. Not sure what drives that... maybe the type of student we attract? Lack of any solid athletics besides baseball for 40 years? Small school? Residential colleges detract from “Rice spirit”? Do we consider ourselves above it?

Around the office:
UH alums have a lot less to brag about but are very noticeable in my office.
Aggies are the “best” at it. Obnoxiously so. And it will only get worse with their 75k students vision.
Longhorns aren’t as aggressive about it but there are enough you know they are around
Rice- silence. I know multiple Rice people but you’d never know they went to Rice.

All the ivies like to talk about their degree and network after school, I’d wager there’s a direct correlation between that and donations.

In this sense, I feel like our best comp is Emory. Both competitive, private universities located in large, southern metropolitan areas surrounded by lots of obnoxious schools.

Settings are similar. Very different student bodies since they don’t have engineering. Kids not in the top 25% of my HS class still got into Emory.

Well you must’ve gone to an incredibly competitive high school then.

By most metrics, Emory isn’t too, too far behind us then.

It was competitive but maybe the kids I knew were just the lower range of those accepted to Emory. I’ve only met one Emory graduate that I didn’t know from HS so it’s hard to say. Rice is 1/3 engineers so I’m guessing the application pool isn’t that similar?

I also knew a few kids who ended up at Vandy because their parents were alums and definitely wouldn’t get into Rice (think they mostly went into education), but the top half that attended Vandy would’ve been just fine at Rice.

Top kids in my class went to Stanford, Vandy (x7 or 8), GT, Rice, Michigan, Illinois, Chicago. Duke is always popular other years but 3 of us turned it down (for Rice/Vandy/Stanford).

(09-10-2018 02:40 PM)owl95 Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 02:00 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 11:51 AM)owl95 Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 11:10 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 11:02 AM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote:  I've been always disappointed with the alumni office's efforts to improve giving participation rates. It should be emphasized, ad nauseum, that these matter for rankings. Instead, it used to *not even be mentioned* (!!!) in our marketing materials, and even now, I find only passing references in the middle of a paragraph somewhere.

Instead, there need to be emails, etc. asking for gifts where the subject of the email emphasizes how much even a $1 gift matters

They emphasize it to young alums quite frequently. You’d be amazed how many of my classmates say “I’ll never give $1 to Rice”.

Classmates in my generation, even though tuition was relatively affordable back then, used to say that too..hell, I used to say it. You know what brought me back? Athletics, specifically football in 2006 and 2008. This is what I keep saying athletics can do for the University in terms of alumni engagement, but while we aren't getting that benefit right now as things are..dropping to DIII will definitely make it worse amongst my peer group, and it certainly won't make it better.

Have giving rates really changed that much over the years? It was even more affordable in my generation, but there are those from my era who don't give, don't give regularly, or (my favorite) can't be bothered.

If Rice ever does drop from D1 athletics (officially, not figuratively), it will no longer be the University I attended and have supported for 40+ years. My support will certainly drop if that ever happens.

Maybe this current generation's #1 happiness rating will lead to more giving. I know that whatever the ratings said in my era, many of my peers graduated with love/hate feelings(probably too complex to discuss here) towards the school and that led to apathy towards giving. I do know for a fact that athletics is one of the sure ways to get them to engage and talk about Rice.

Edit: Are my peers and friends from my class hardcore about Rice athletics? Not really but my ex-roommate that lives in Austin traveled to New Orleans for the Bowl in 2006 and roadtripped to Houston to attend the Texas Bowl with me in 2008 and he's come to one of the watch parties at Jake's with his kid when he happened to be in town during football season. One of my other ex-roommates who lives in the Bay Area and has only been back to Houston once since he graduated trekked to U of San Francisco to watch the Rice basketball game in Rhoades' 2nd year after i told him about it, even though he hadn't seen a Rice MBB game in 20 years. Unlikely to see them at any other Rice event.

Editx2: Rice drops athletics to D3, you will never see them again. It's not a threat, but their interest level will just go from somewhat low to zero. On the other hand, top 25 rating in football, NCAA mbb run, they might open their wallets. I am pretty sure they are not atypical for alumni of my generation.

And, believe me, the University and BOT fully understand this.

(09-10-2018 06:50 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 06:02 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 05:52 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 05:43 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  In this sense, I feel like our best comp is Emory. Both competitive, private universities located in large, southern metropolitan areas surrounded by lots of obnoxious schools.

Settings are similar. Very different student bodies since they don’t have engineering. Kids not in the top 25% of my HS class still got into Emory.

Well you must’ve gone to an incredibly competitive high school then.

By most metrics, Emory isn’t too, too far behind us then.

It was competitive but maybe the kids I knew were just the lower range of those accepted to Emory. I’ve only met one Emory graduate that I didn’t know from HS so it’s hard to say. Rice is 1/3 engineers so I’m guessing the application pool isn’t that similar?

I also knew a few kids who ended up at Vandy because their parents were alums and definitely wouldn’t get into Rice (think they mostly went into education), but the top half that attended Vandy would’ve been just fine at Rice.

Top kids in my class went to Stanford, Vandy (x7 or 8), GT, Rice, Michigan, Illinois, Chicago. Duke is always popular other years but 3 of us turned it down (for Rice/Vandy/Stanford).

I'm curious, where is your HS located, cr11owl?

(09-11-2018 02:19 AM)Almadenmike Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 06:50 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 06:02 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 05:52 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 05:43 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  In this sense, I feel like our best comp is Emory. Both competitive, private universities located in large, southern metropolitan areas surrounded by lots of obnoxious schools.

Settings are similar. Very different student bodies since they don’t have engineering. Kids not in the top 25% of my HS class still got into Emory.

Well you must’ve gone to an incredibly competitive high school then.

By most metrics, Emory isn’t too, too far behind us then.

It was competitive but maybe the kids I knew were just the lower range of those accepted to Emory. I’ve only met one Emory graduate that I didn’t know from HS so it’s hard to say. Rice is 1/3 engineers so I’m guessing the application pool isn’t that similar?

I also knew a few kids who ended up at Vandy because their parents were alums and definitely wouldn’t get into Rice (think they mostly went into education), but the top half that attended Vandy would’ve been just fine at Rice.

Top kids in my class went to Stanford, Vandy (x7 or 8), GT, Rice, Michigan, Illinois, Chicago. Duke is always popular other years but 3 of us turned it down (for Rice/Vandy/Stanford).

I'm curious, where is your HS located, cr11owl?

Alabama

(09-11-2018 06:40 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-11-2018 02:19 AM)Almadenmike Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 06:50 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 06:02 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 05:52 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  Settings are similar. Very different student bodies since they don’t have engineering. Kids not in the top 25% of my HS class still got into Emory.

Well you must’ve gone to an incredibly competitive high school then.

By most metrics, Emory isn’t too, too far behind us then.

It was competitive but maybe the kids I knew were just the lower range of those accepted to Emory. I’ve only met one Emory graduate that I didn’t know from HS so it’s hard to say. Rice is 1/3 engineers so I’m guessing the application pool isn’t that similar?

I also knew a few kids who ended up at Vandy because their parents were alums and definitely wouldn’t get into Rice (think they mostly went into education), but the top half that attended Vandy would’ve been just fine at Rice.

Top kids in my class went to Stanford, Vandy (x7 or 8), GT, Rice, Michigan, Illinois, Chicago. Duke is always popular other years but 3 of us turned it down (for Rice/Vandy/Stanford).

I'm curious, where is your HS located, cr11owl?

Alabama

Not to distract too much from the thread, but mind if I ask where in Alabama, cr11owl? I've been in Huntsville now for 9 years.

(09-10-2018 02:00 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  If Rice ever does drop from D1 athletics (officially, not figuratively), it will no longer be the University I attended and have supported for 40+ years. My support will certainly drop if that ever happens.

As you acknowledge, there already has been a figurative drop. For 20 years now Rice has been in a de facto ghettoized subdivision of Division I for football with literally no access to the championship, and only a handful of games against old rivals and peers that are basically exhibition games. Frankly, our whole schedule is exhibition games when you know going into the season that you could go undefeated and not even play for the national championship.

So Rice has already become "no longer the University I attended" for a not-insignificant number of people. Undoubtedly this has already killed some people's support, at least suppressed it for many others (I donate but absolutely would be more enthusiastic and donating more if we were not so seemingly resigned to this second-class existence), and strangled it in the crib for about the last 20 classes and counting.

(09-10-2018 07:30 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 02:40 PM)owl95 Wrote:  Editx2: Rice drops athletics to D3, you will never see them again. It's not a threat, but their interest level will just go from somewhat low to zero. On the other hand, top 25 rating in football, NCAA mbb run, they might open their wallets. I am pretty sure they are not atypical for alumni of my generation.

And, believe me, the University and BOT fully understand this.

Not to be morbid, but those of us who would be devastated by formally jettisoning that which has already been informally jettisoned (and I probably count even myself in that number, as disillusioned as I already am) are increasingly prone to passing on to the great alumni tailgate in the sky and the ranks simply are not being replenished. There will come a demographic tipping point when either dropping football or dropping to Div. III (my money would actually be on the former) will no longer be a third rail. Probably in about 20-30 years when the '00 and sooner alums are in their 50s and 60s and taking over the donor class and BOT.