(08-15-2018 12:25 PM)AustinFromUNT Wrote:  

(08-15-2018 12:21 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  How concerned are you all that Tech will poach Littrell if/when Kingsbury gets the axe this fall/winter?

Most of us see that as a huge concern. There are only a few schools I think SL would readily leave us for. Oklahoma (his alma mater), North Carolina (he was OC there before he came here), and Texas Tech (he was a coach there with Leach). UNC won’t go with another Fedora type coach. Oklahoma has Riley and he has MANY years left at OU. Kingsbury is gone this year unless he wins 7+ games.

That buyout is nothing for a P5 school. Pocket change. He'll be gone within the next two years.

(08-16-2018 07:41 AM)Dawgxas Wrote:  Still waiting on the Baseball Bonanza thread....

+1. Didn't North Texas agree to start a baseball program as a condition to joining CUSA?

(08-17-2018 11:08 PM)banker Wrote:  What is a coach really worth? I would argue that there are only about 10 FBS coaches that are really difference makers in a positive way and about 40 that are difference makers in a negative way. Everybody else is just average, maybe a plus one or minus one in the win column versus any other coach you would pick.

Let's say that Marshall thought Doc was a good coach and wanted to keep him pretty bad. So they think paying him $1.5MM instead of $800k will do that. Does that make him a better coach? No, just a richer one. If he really is a difference maker type coach then some P5 can pay him 3-4 million more, so how is $1.5MM going to keep him around any better than $800k.

If I were an AD for a G5 my strategy would be that I don't care if I have to hire a new coach every 4-5 years. I would keep a working list of FCS head coaches and innovative assistants who are more interested in the opportunity than the money (they will be getting a huge raise regardless at $800k). I then take that extra $700,000 a year and plow it into facilities to make the opportunity more appealing as opposed to the salary.

Good post. I tend to agree. And frankly, this has been LA Tech's strategy. But this "4 to 5 yr" coaching approach is fine until you can't even get them to stay that long. Then, it takes a toll on recruiting.

Derek Dooley left Tech for Tennessee after only 3 years. Sonny Dykes left for California after 3 years. These short coaching stays took a toll on Tech's recruiting, and were a primary driver for Tech falling to a 4-9 record in Skip Holtz's first year in 2013.

Holtz is now going into his 6th season at LA Tech. i can't believe we were able to keep him after 3 consecutive 9-win seasons and 4 consecutive bowl wins. IMO, this program stability has been very good for Tech's recruiting. Oh sure, we've had our problems, but overall the program has thrived under Holtz. I guess Holtz's bad previous experience at USF and his age (54) has kept the P5's away.

So, maybe this is the new model for G5's? Go after an older, 50+ yrs old, more experienced, coach who's already coached at higher levels, but is seeking stability. Frank Solich (Ohio), Holtz, Jeff Tedford (Fresno St), Bill Clark (UAB), Troy Calhoun (Air Force), etc...are only a few examples that come to mind. Maybe these guys represent the best model, because they already know what they are doing, and the P5's aren't likely to hire them due to their age?

(08-18-2018 09:03 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 11:08 PM)banker Wrote:  What is a coach really worth? I would argue that there are only about 10 FBS coaches that are really difference makers in a positive way and about 40 that are difference makers in a negative way. Everybody else is just average, maybe a plus one or minus one in the win column versus any other coach you would pick.

Let's say that Marshall thought Doc was a good coach and wanted to keep him pretty bad. So they think paying him $1.5MM instead of $800k will do that. Does that make him a better coach? No, just a richer one. If he really is a difference maker type coach then some P5 can pay him 3-4 million more, so how is $1.5MM going to keep him around any better than $800k.

If I were an AD for a G5 my strategy would be that I don't care if I have to hire a new coach every 4-5 years. I would keep a working list of FCS head coaches and innovative assistants who are more interested in the opportunity than the money (they will be getting a huge raise regardless at $800k). I then take that extra $700,000 a year and plow it into facilities to make the opportunity more appealing as opposed to the salary.

Good post. I tend to agree. And frankly, this has been LA Tech's strategy. But this "4 to 5 yr" coaching approach is fine until you can't even get them to stay that long. Then, it takes a toll on recruiting.

Derek Dooley left Tech for Tennessee after only 3 years. Sonny Dykes left for California after 3 years. These short coaching stays took a toll on Tech's recruiting, and were a primary driver for Tech falling to a 4-9 record in Skip Holtz's first year in 2013.

Holtz is now going into his 6th season at LA Tech. i can't believe we were able to keep him after 3 consecutive 9-win seasons and 4 consecutive bowl wins. IMO, this program stability has been very good for Tech's recruiting. Oh sure, we've had our problems, but overall the program has thrived under Holtz. I guess Holtz's bad previous experience at USF and his age (54) has kept the P5's away.

So, maybe this is the new model for G5's? Go after an older, 50+ yrs old, more experienced, coach who's already coached at higher levels, but is seeking stability. Frank Solich (Ohio), Holtz, Jeff Tedford (Fresno St), Bill Clark (UAB), Troy Calhoun (Air Force), etc...are only a few examples that come to mind. Maybe these guys represent the best model, because they already know what they are doing, and the P5's aren't likely to hire them due to their age?

Think about this. Let’s say your coach is making $800k per year. Then an AAC program comes in and offers $1.5M. Are you telling me if your job offered you an extra $700k per year you would turn it down? Then consider this scenario. Your coach is making $1.5M per year. An AAC program offers them $1.5M. Sure it’s a more prestigious conference, but most coaches won’t take the risk for that jump with the same money. That’s why it’s important for us. To fend off MWC, AAC, & low end P5 programs. Beaty @ Kansas makes $1.6M/season. SL wouldn’t take on that mess for only $200k more, not would most any G5 coach. But if he were making $800k he might.

(08-18-2018 09:52 AM)AustinFromUNT Wrote:  

(08-18-2018 09:03 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 11:08 PM)banker Wrote:  What is a coach really worth? I would argue that there are only about 10 FBS coaches that are really difference makers in a positive way and about 40 that are difference makers in a negative way. Everybody else is just average, maybe a plus one or minus one in the win column versus any other coach you would pick.

Let's say that Marshall thought Doc was a good coach and wanted to keep him pretty bad. So they think paying him $1.5MM instead of $800k will do that. Does that make him a better coach? No, just a richer one. If he really is a difference maker type coach then some P5 can pay him 3-4 million more, so how is $1.5MM going to keep him around any better than $800k.

If I were an AD for a G5 my strategy would be that I don't care if I have to hire a new coach every 4-5 years. I would keep a working list of FCS head coaches and innovative assistants who are more interested in the opportunity than the money (they will be getting a huge raise regardless at $800k). I then take that extra $700,000 a year and plow it into facilities to make the opportunity more appealing as opposed to the salary.

Good post. I tend to agree. And frankly, this has been LA Tech's strategy. But this "4 to 5 yr" coaching approach is fine until you can't even get them to stay that long. Then, it takes a toll on recruiting.

Derek Dooley left Tech for Tennessee after only 3 years. Sonny Dykes left for California after 3 years. These short coaching stays took a toll on Tech's recruiting, and were a primary driver for Tech falling to a 4-9 record in Skip Holtz's first year in 2013.

Holtz is now going into his 6th season at LA Tech. i can't believe we were able to keep him after 3 consecutive 9-win seasons and 4 consecutive bowl wins. IMO, this program stability has been very good for Tech's recruiting. Oh sure, we've had our problems, but overall the program has thrived under Holtz. I guess Holtz's bad previous experience at USF and his age (54) has kept the P5's away.

So, maybe this is the new model for G5's? Go after an older, 50+ yrs old, more experienced, coach who's already coached at higher levels, but is seeking stability. Frank Solich (Ohio), Holtz, Jeff Tedford (Fresno St), Bill Clark (UAB), Troy Calhoun (Air Force), etc...are only a few examples that come to mind. Maybe these guys represent the best model, because they already know what they are doing, and the P5's aren't likely to hire them due to their age?

Think about this. Let’s say your coach is making $800k per year. Then an AAC program comes in and offers $1.5M. Are you telling me if your job offered you an extra $700k per year you would turn it down? Then consider this scenario. Your coach is making $1.5M per year. An AAC program offers them $1.5M. Sure it’s a more prestigious conference, but most coaches won’t take the risk for that jump with the same money. That’s why it’s important for us. To fend off MWC, AAC, & low end P5 programs. Beaty @ Kansas makes $1.6M/season. SL wouldn’t take on that mess for only $200k more, not would most any G5 coach. But if he were making $800k he might.

I know its OC, not HC, and I know the money's not as big but Briles left FAU and is only getting $50k a year more

(08-18-2018 11:33 AM)NTXCoog12 Wrote:  

(08-18-2018 09:52 AM)AustinFromUNT Wrote:  

(08-18-2018 09:03 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 11:08 PM)banker Wrote:  What is a coach really worth? I would argue that there are only about 10 FBS coaches that are really difference makers in a positive way and about 40 that are difference makers in a negative way. Everybody else is just average, maybe a plus one or minus one in the win column versus any other coach you would pick.

Let's say that Marshall thought Doc was a good coach and wanted to keep him pretty bad. So they think paying him $1.5MM instead of $800k will do that. Does that make him a better coach? No, just a richer one. If he really is a difference maker type coach then some P5 can pay him 3-4 million more, so how is $1.5MM going to keep him around any better than $800k.

If I were an AD for a G5 my strategy would be that I don't care if I have to hire a new coach every 4-5 years. I would keep a working list of FCS head coaches and innovative assistants who are more interested in the opportunity than the money (they will be getting a huge raise regardless at $800k). I then take that extra $700,000 a year and plow it into facilities to make the opportunity more appealing as opposed to the salary.

Good post. I tend to agree. And frankly, this has been LA Tech's strategy. But this "4 to 5 yr" coaching approach is fine until you can't even get them to stay that long. Then, it takes a toll on recruiting.

Derek Dooley left Tech for Tennessee after only 3 years. Sonny Dykes left for California after 3 years. These short coaching stays took a toll on Tech's recruiting, and were a primary driver for Tech falling to a 4-9 record in Skip Holtz's first year in 2013.

Holtz is now going into his 6th season at LA Tech. i can't believe we were able to keep him after 3 consecutive 9-win seasons and 4 consecutive bowl wins. IMO, this program stability has been very good for Tech's recruiting. Oh sure, we've had our problems, but overall the program has thrived under Holtz. I guess Holtz's bad previous experience at USF and his age (54) has kept the P5's away.

So, maybe this is the new model for G5's? Go after an older, 50+ yrs old, more experienced, coach who's already coached at higher levels, but is seeking stability. Frank Solich (Ohio), Holtz, Jeff Tedford (Fresno St), Bill Clark (UAB), Troy Calhoun (Air Force), etc...are only a few examples that come to mind. Maybe these guys represent the best model, because they already know what they are doing, and the P5's aren't likely to hire them due to their age?

Think about this. Let’s say your coach is making $800k per year. Then an AAC program comes in and offers $1.5M. Are you telling me if your job offered you an extra $700k per year you would turn it down? Then consider this scenario. Your coach is making $1.5M per year. An AAC program offers them $1.5M. Sure it’s a more prestigious conference, but most coaches won’t take the risk for that jump with the same money. That’s why it’s important for us. To fend off MWC, AAC, & low end P5 programs. Beaty @ Kansas makes $1.6M/season. SL wouldn’t take on that mess for only $200k more, not would most any G5 coach. But if he were making $800k he might.

I know its OC, not HC, and I know the money's not as big but Briles left FAU and is only getting $50k a year more

Briles' case (for leaving FAU) is a little different. He's FROM Texas, and has deep roots in Texas High School football and Texas college football. In addition to being the former head coach at Baylor, Briles' father Art was a legend in high school football and a former President of the Texas High School Football Coaches Association. So, at one time he knew almost every high school football coach in Texas. Thus, Briles (the son) is much more valuable as a recruiter in the state of Texas than anywhere else. Long term, Briles can command more money and better coaching jobs in the state of Texas than anywhere else.