(06-21-2018 10:44 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 10:02 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Me no likey.

Why?

Why should online sales be exempt from sales taxes, giving them a competitive advantage against brick and mortar stores within the state that are paying teh sales tax, plus other taxes that fund the government?

Yeah, agree with you on this one. Equal protection under the law.

(06-21-2018 10:35 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think we all knew this was coming as internet sales became a bigger and bigger part of retail.

Yes. It was absolutely essential.

However, the reasoning is kind of scary. Getting rid of nexus? California will be trying to tax everybody who has a mutual fund with Google stock.

Congress is going to have to step in to fix another one of Justice Kennedy's messes.

(06-21-2018 10:44 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 10:02 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Me no likey.

Why?

Why should online sales be exempt from sales taxes, giving them a competitive advantage against brick and mortar stores within the state that are paying teh sales tax, plus other taxes that fund the government?

It will devastate small business e-commerce. Trying to keep track of sales tax in every state and city and all the changes that take place is impossible for a small business owner.

Amazon and other big online retailers have the resources to adapt, but small business owners will struggle or simply give up.

(06-21-2018 12:32 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 10:44 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 10:02 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Me no likey.

Why?

Why should online sales be exempt from sales taxes, giving them a competitive advantage against brick and mortar stores within the state that are paying teh sales tax, plus other taxes that fund the government?

It will devastate small business e-commerce. Trying to keep track of sales tax in every state and city and all the changes that take place is impossible for a small business owner.

Amazon and other big online retailers have the resources to adapt, but small business owners will struggle or simply give up.

Or more likely, someone will develop a software or QuickBooks add on that will do all that for you automatically and probably even pay it for them, that is, if it doesn't already exist. I get your concern, but I highly doubt it will be a monumental hurdle in this day and age.

(06-21-2018 12:39 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 12:32 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 10:44 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 10:02 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Me no likey.

Why?

Why should online sales be exempt from sales taxes, giving them a competitive advantage against brick and mortar stores within the state that are paying teh sales tax, plus other taxes that fund the government?

It will devastate small business e-commerce. Trying to keep track of sales tax in every state and city and all the changes that take place is impossible for a small business owner.

Amazon and other big online retailers have the resources to adapt, but small business owners will struggle or simply give up.

Or more likely, someone will develop a software or QuickBooks add on that will do all that for you automatically and probably even pay it for them, that is, if it doesn't already exist. I get your concern, but I highly doubt it will be a monumental hurdle in this day and age.

There are many options. Anybody on e-commerce won't be doing this manually.

As predicted. I just can't fathom how the decision was only 5-4.

(06-21-2018 12:45 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  As predicted. I just can't fathom how the decision was only 5-4.

They overturned a 1992 decision and in doing so, threw out a century of very clear tax law requiring a physical presence to tax.

Under Kennedy's reasoning, you can tax anyone who sells anything in your state.

If a Louisiana manufacturer sells a fitting to a company in California, California can tax the earnings of the Louisiana company.

It is a REAL can of worms. I think you can re-define physical presence, but Kennedy completely threw it out. Its going to be a nightmare for non-e-commerce companies. We aren't just talking sales tax. E-commerce already had to know this was coming and needed to come.

Sales tax is easy. The nightmare is franchise and income taxes. There will be Obama's 57 different ways to define your taxability.

I can count 57-49 states, DC, PR, VI, Guam, NMI, American Samoa, California law and California Franchise Tax Board methods which ignore the law.

It's the right move. It helps level the playing field in at least one facet of the competition by forcing every store is responsible for the same sales tax req't for each state. While smaller shops may not be able to have the same advantages of larger stores with volume discounts when purchasing inventory, they at least are not penalized for having a physical presence.

Of course, I also like having good schools, a police force in my community, fire, etc.

5-4 vote - Kennedy, Thomas, Ginsburg, Alito Jr. and Gorsuch were the majority. I don't see how this affects Amazon much since they were already collecting sales tax on most of its items. I believe only specialty items from the Amazon Marketplace were exempt prior to this vote, and in a few territories that people mentioned earlier.

It's probably a big deal for eBay sellers, and a few, smaller sites. Their loss will be Amazon's gain. Amazon just gets a bigger piece of the pie. What else is new.

(06-21-2018 12:39 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 12:32 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 10:44 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 10:02 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Me no likey.

Why?

Why should online sales be exempt from sales taxes, giving them a competitive advantage against brick and mortar stores within the state that are paying teh sales tax, plus other taxes that fund the government?

It will devastate small business e-commerce. Trying to keep track of sales tax in every state and city and all the changes that take place is impossible for a small business owner.

Amazon and other big online retailers have the resources to adapt, but small business owners will struggle or simply give up.

Or more likely, someone will develop a software or QuickBooks add on that will do all that for you automatically and probably even pay it for them, that is, if it doesn't already exist. I get your concern, but I highly doubt it will be a monumental hurdle in this day and age.

I would be shocked if it doesn't exist.

I started my IT career in 89. My first project was to create a billing system which read work orders from across the U.S., retrieved the associated sales tax rate for the locale, and generate invoices.

Sales tax rates have (usually) two components:
1. The state tax rate
2. The municipality/local tax rate

For example:
TN state tax rate = 7.00%
Local tax rate = 1.50% - 2.75%
Max combined tax rate = 9.75% (7.00% + 2.75%)

The national sales tax rate file was updated monthly.

The program did the following:
1. Priced the service(s) noted on the work order
2. Retrieved the appropriate combined sales tax rate for the specific locale from the file
3. Added row for customer, date of service, type of service, price of service, sales tax amount, total
4. Totaled all rows for customer within specified date range
5. Generated invoices for customers

It also generated and filed the various sales tax returns per state.




By the way, TN has the highest combined state + avg local sales tax rate in the nation. And Memphis/Shelby County has the highest combined sales tax rate in the state.

Here's an interesting infographic:

(06-21-2018 11:27 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 11:04 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 10:51 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 10:44 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 10:02 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Me no likey.

Why?

Because I don't like paying taxes to the government.

I don't like driving the speed limit but I still do it.

Why should online retailers be given a competitive advantage over brick and mortar retailers?

They've managed to figure out a better, faster, more efficient way of retailing by offering more goods at cheaper prices purchased from the comfort of your own home and sent right to your house.

THAT'S their competitive advantage. If the brick & mortars can't figure out a way to keep up, they close the doors.

That's how capitalism works.

What they also did was exploit a part of the law that didn't cover taxes and internet sales. Instead of punishing them, we should be praising them and figuring out MORE ways to do that very thing.

The concept of sales & use tax is that the buyer pays the tax while the seller simply acts as a collection point.

When filing your monthly Sales and Use Tax return, Tennessee allowed the business to keep a %-age of total collections. This served as compensation to the business for acting as an agent on behalf of the state. If I recall correctly, I think it was a graduated rate up to 2%.

If your business in Memphis had $10,000 in sales you would have collected $925 in sales tax. At the time I dealt with this Memphis' rate was 9.25%.

When the business filed its monthly report with the state you would deduct 2%, $18.50, and submit the rest.


So, the seller hasn't been out anything. Rather, it's the buyer who benefits.

There was another problem the state had to deal with.

People can buy items out of state and bring them home. In Memphis people would go across the state line to buy a car because Mississippi has a lower sales tax rate. Currently it's a max of 8%.

Years ago it was 6% compared to Memphis' 9.25%. That's a savings of 3.25%.

For a car that cost $20,000, MS would charge $1,200 vs Memphis' $1,850. You could save $650 for driving an extra 10 miles to buy your car.

But.... TN has a Sales and USE Tax. The USE part means that you pay tax on the items you USE in TN that you purchased in another state. The amount you pay = the difference you saved. So technically per law the buyer was supposed to pay the savings of $650 to the state on their own.

Obviously nobody was going to tattle on themselves so the state didn't collect much via that law. So Tennessee worked out a deal with other states. They would collect the sales tax at the time of sale and submit that to TN.

Anyway, each state imposes a sales tax rate on its citizens. Businesses are required to collect that tax on behalf of the state.

A business that operates outside of the state now has to collect that tax and submit it as well.

(06-22-2018 06:25 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  5-4 vote - Kennedy, Thomas, Ginsburg, Alito Jr. and Gorsuch were the majority. I don't see how this affects Amazon much since they were already collecting sales tax on most of its items. I believe only specialty items from the Amazon Marketplace were exempt prior to this vote, and in a few territories that people mentioned earlier.

It's probably a big deal for eBay sellers, and a few, smaller sites. Their loss will be Amazon's gain. Amazon just gets a bigger piece of the pie. What else is new.

Its a really interesting split. In terms of conservatism, it was probably 1, 2, 3, 5 and 9 in the majority.

(06-22-2018 08:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-22-2018 06:25 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  5-4 vote - Kennedy, Thomas, Ginsburg, Alito Jr. and Gorsuch were the majority. I don't see how this affects Amazon much since they were already collecting sales tax on most of its items. I believe only specialty items from the Amazon Marketplace were exempt prior to this vote, and in a few territories that people mentioned earlier.
It's probably a big deal for eBay sellers, and a few, smaller sites. Their loss will be Amazon's gain. Amazon just gets a bigger piece of the pie. What else is new.

Its a really interesting split. In terms of conservatism, it was probably 1, 2, 3, 5 and 9 in the majority.

Reminds me of the case I worked on an amicus for a couple of years ago. 5-4 win for our side, with Kennedy, Roberts, Alito, Kagan, and Breyer for us, and Scalia, Thomas, Ginsburg, and Sotomayor against.

(06-21-2018 11:12 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 11:04 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 10:51 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 10:44 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 10:02 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Me no likey.

Why?

Because I don't like paying taxes to the government.

I don't like driving the speed limit but I still do it.

Why should online retailers be given a competitive advantage over brick and mortar retailers?

Actually, they shouldn't.......but who likes paying taxes??

Unfortunately, a lot of things government does is necessary and has to be paid for. Sure wish there was a way to force them to try and be cost effective.

Well hell, of course, they need the extra taxes to fund sanctuary cities...and states.

But, nonetheless, I agree with this ruling. Brick and mortar stores have been losing. We need the Trump approach: Reciprocity.

This has been a long time coming and they shouldn't have been allowed to not charge it from the beginning. You can't tell me that if you can ship at all kinds of rates to all kinds of locations that you somehow can't keep a sales tax file to charge for the appropriate locale.

(06-24-2018 03:11 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  This has been a long time coming and they shouldn't have been allowed to not charge it from the beginning. You can't tell me that if you can ship at all kinds of rates to all kinds of locations that you somehow can't keep a sales tax file to charge for the appropriate locale.

no doubt.....it's amazing it took the states this long......