(06-20-2018 10:39 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 10:23 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 10:13 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 07:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 06:46 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Fake news

If its Trump and Sessions policy then why did the Obama administration separate countless thousands of children from their families for 8 years?

Amercian citizens who break the law face possible separation from their children, why do illegals deserve more? They broke the law and came across the border KNOWING they can be temporality separated.

Mainly becaue he cant read plain english. The part he bolded actually says the Flores case "UNAMBIGUOUSLY applies to BOTH ACCOMPANIED and UNACCOMPANIED minors". The reversal only allows a loophole to release the minor to the parents---but its not going to be applicable if parents are in jail (because you again invoke the upheld portion of the Flores settlement)---which is the case for families illegally crossing the border. Basically, the parents have to be out of jail.

......and they were up until this April, except for the cases where the parents were guilty of other criminal acts, OR the kids weren’t with their actual families & were in potential danger if they stayed with them.

I read it clearly - you guys just don’t want to admit that the April policy is what changed everything.

The policy changed in one way. The federal law was actually being enforced.

The law does not require the charge to be upped - it was civil/misdemeanor before, and the law was being followed. The party in power now just wants to create a crisis about it to get the laws changed.

Again---the law wasnt being enforced. Since we all agree the law has not changed----it clearly was never a misdemeanor. Illegal immigration is a felony. If it were just a misdemeanor--they could not be charged with a felony today. If the law is wrong---fix it. If the Flores case is the problem---fix it. But the answer is not to just open the border to all comers--which was the Obama catch and release solution.

(06-20-2018 02:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 02:22 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 02:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 01:16 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/o...-56434.pdf

Cernovich? He thinks Hillary Clinton ran a child sex ring in a non-existent basement of a Pizza parlor but Trump isn't doing something new to harm the children of aslyum seekers.

Read the link to the actual court documents you ******* cartoon character.

Where's the part about closing the legal border crossings to induce asylum seekers to cross at unauthrorized points so that ICE can charge them with a misdemenor so they can separate families for purposes of political leverage? I didn't see that.

Really? Look at all of the consulate and embassy locations one can go to seek asylum without going to the US boarder and putting "your children" at risk...

(06-20-2018 10:37 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  No dishonesty here - it’s just not what you want to hear.

As I told you in the other thread since apparently you just want to follow me around now, there was plenty of outrage with Obama, so spare me that whole bit. I also like how you just “know” what my opinions were the entirety of the past 9 years. Talk about dishonest and nonsensical.

When Obama did his immigration EO, tons of people were shouting that he overstepped his boundaries. The cage pics from his tenure were, and are, also completely unacceptable.

And yeah - more than 2000 unaccompanied or endangered kids probably did come through in EIGHT years. Not anywhere close to a rate of 2000 in 6 weeks though.

No one is buying it tigergeen.

You had nothing to say about Obama's role until you were called out on it. The MSM and the left were NEVER in apocalyptic outrage mode like this past week over Obama's role. As multiple Democrats have now admitted, the MSM were complicit in trying to keep this quite for Obama.

And yes, we all know WAYYYY more than just 2000 kids were separated in the previous administrations.

BTW - You seriously want to play the victim card because I discussed it with you in 2 different threads? Give me a break. You are more than capable of dealing with a little pushback and debate without pretending you are some kind of victim now.

Bottom line: Clinton did not attempt to fix it, neither Bush tried to fix it, Obama also just let it ride. Trump is trying to get it fixed, but Dems are obstructing a fix as they want open borders and get more voters, already no with drugs and MS13.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Cheap votes and cheap labor. Disgusting.

(06-20-2018 03:17 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 01:16 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/o...-56434.pdf

From what I've read about that decision, there is nothing in it that currently requires the separation of parents from kids.

trump could have all along allowed the parents to remain with the kids in some type of safe holding environment for them both. You know...like his EO is reportedly going to do now?

Nice try, but the current policy is all on trump. And he's losing the PR battle on it which, would have most like cost some congressional seats for the GOP had he continued it. Hence why he's backing down now.

Sorry, but you lost this one.

Hunh,

You know they are "parents" HOW?!?

I'll take the answer off the air Alan.

(06-20-2018 10:22 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 10:09 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 06:46 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 04:27 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  I'm no lawyer, but this case clearly says the ninth district said that the law was ambiguous, and clarified it to only apply to UNACCOMPANIED minors:

"Applying familiar principles of contract interpretation, we conclude that the
Settlement unambiguously applies both to accompanied and
unaccompanied minors, but does not create affirmative
release rights for parents. We therefore affirm the district
court in part, reverse in part, and remand. "

Prior to that, the "settlement" (Flores decision) it's referring to did not specify whether minors would be accompanied or unaccompanied, but it also did not REQUIRE separation from parents - it provided safety guidelines IF the minors were separated.

So yes, this situation we’re in is indeed “Trump’s policy.” Sessions’ policy if you want to split hairs.

Fake news

If its Trump and Sessions policy then why did the Obama administration separate countless thousands of children from their families for 8 years?

Amercian citizens who break the law face possible separation from their children, why do illegals deserve more? They broke the law and came across the border KNOWING they can be temporality separated.

Thousands over 8 years, huh? Pales in comparison to the 2000 in just SIX WEEKS that we have now.

Sessions & Trump made illegal entry a criminal charge - not a misdemeanor as it has been for multiple administrations. That is where the problem lies - it’s not going to solve any problem, and will in fact create more.

Re: your American citizen comparison - are you saying you’re for removing kids from parents who commit misdemeanors in this country? That makes a lot of sense. /rolleyes

I'm sorry but your argument is just oozing with dishonesty.

You had no problem with Obama doing this for 8 years, and now are suddenly outraged because its happening under Trump.

Furthermore, you can bet the house WAY more than just 2000 kids were temporarily separated from their families in Obamas 8 years.

Trump has broken you like most of the hard left. You are arguing nonsensical and dishonest points.

*Cough*90,000*Cough*

(06-20-2018 03:17 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 01:16 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/o...-56434.pdf

From what I've read about that decision, there is nothing in it that currently requires the separation of parents from kids.

trump could have all along allowed the parents to remain with the kids in some type of safe holding environment for them both. You know...like his EO is reportedly going to do now?

Nice try, but the current policy is all on trump. And he's losing the PR battle on it which, would have most like cost some congressional seats for the GOP had he continued it. Hence why he's backing down now.

Sorry, but you lost this one.

And that's all that matters to you, not the welfare of kids of criminals. not the actual policy, nothing matters except that "our side" lost.

(06-20-2018 04:27 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  I'm no lawyer, but this case clearly says the ninth district said that the law was ambiguous, and clarified it to only apply to UNACCOMPANIED minors:

"Applying familiar principles of contract interpretation, we conclude that the
Settlement unambiguously applies both to accompanied and
unaccompanied minors, but does not create affirmative
release rights for parents. We therefore affirm the district
court in part, reverse in part, and remand. "

Prior to that, the "settlement" (Flores decision) it's referring to did not specify whether minors would be accompanied or unaccompanied, but it also did not REQUIRE separation from parents - it provided safety guidelines IF the minors were separated.

So yes, this situation we’re in is indeed “Trump’s policy.” Sessions’ policy if you want to split hairs.

Probably should have just stopped there.

(06-20-2018 07:59 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 02:30 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 02:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 02:22 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 02:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Cernovich? He thinks Hillary Clinton ran a child sex ring in a non-existent basement of a Pizza parlor but Trump isn't doing something new to harm the children of aslyum seekers.

Read the link to the actual court documents you ******* cartoon character.

Where's the part about closing the legal border crossings to induce asylum seekers to cross at unauthrorized points so that ICE can charge them with a misdemenor so they can separate families for purposes of political leverage? I didn't see that.

I don't know. Why don't you provide us with a legitimate link proving this is truly happening because your word is absolutely worthless on this board.

Here here I can tell you. His word is absolutely worthless to me. I can attest to that, for sure.

Truer words have ne'er been spoken on this board.

(06-20-2018 10:09 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 06:46 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 04:27 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  I'm no lawyer, but this case clearly says the ninth district said that the law was ambiguous, and clarified it to only apply to UNACCOMPANIED minors:

"Applying familiar principles of contract interpretation, we conclude that the
Settlement unambiguously applies both to accompanied and
unaccompanied minors, but does not create affirmative
release rights for parents. We therefore affirm the district
court in part, reverse in part, and remand. "

Prior to that, the "settlement" (Flores decision) it's referring to did not specify whether minors would be accompanied or unaccompanied, but it also did not REQUIRE separation from parents - it provided safety guidelines IF the minors were separated.

So yes, this situation we’re in is indeed “Trump’s policy.” Sessions’ policy if you want to split hairs.

Fake news

If its Trump and Sessions policy then why did the Obama administration separate countless thousands of children from their families for 8 years?

Amercian citizens who break the law face possible separation from their children, why do illegals deserve more? They broke the law and came across the border KNOWING they can be temporality separated.

Thousands over 8 years, huh? Pales in comparison to the 2000 in just SIX WEEKS that we have now.

Sessions & Trump made illegal entry a criminal charge - not a misdemeanor as it has been for multiple administrations. That is where the problem lies - it’s not going to solve any problem, and will in fact create more.

Re: your American citizen comparison - are you saying you’re for removing kids from parents who commit misdemeanors in this country? That makes a lot of sense. /rolleyes

See, you should have stopped at "I'm no lawyer". Neither am I but I do know that illegal anything is criminal, whether it be a misdemeanor or a felony, both are the charges associated with breaking the law. You seem to think that misdemeanors aren't criminal actions.

(06-20-2018 10:37 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 10:22 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 10:09 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 06:46 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 04:27 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  I'm no lawyer, but this case clearly says the ninth district said that the law was ambiguous, and clarified it to only apply to UNACCOMPANIED minors:

"Applying familiar principles of contract interpretation, we conclude that the
Settlement unambiguously applies both to accompanied and
unaccompanied minors, but does not create affirmative
release rights for parents. We therefore affirm the district
court in part, reverse in part, and remand. "

Prior to that, the "settlement" (Flores decision) it's referring to did not specify whether minors would be accompanied or unaccompanied, but it also did not REQUIRE separation from parents - it provided safety guidelines IF the minors were separated.

So yes, this situation we’re in is indeed “Trump’s policy.” Sessions’ policy if you want to split hairs.

Fake news

If its Trump and Sessions policy then why did the Obama administration separate countless thousands of children from their families for 8 years?

Amercian citizens who break the law face possible separation from their children, why do illegals deserve more? They broke the law and came across the border KNOWING they can be temporality separated.

Thousands over 8 years, huh? Pales in comparison to the 2000 in just SIX WEEKS that we have now.

Sessions & Trump made illegal entry a criminal charge - not a misdemeanor as it has been for multiple administrations. That is where the problem lies - it’s not going to solve any problem, and will in fact create more.

Re: your American citizen comparison - are you saying you’re for removing kids from parents who commit misdemeanors in this country? That makes a lot of sense. /rolleyes

I'm sorry but your argument is just oozing with dishonesty.

You had no problem with Obama doing this for 8 years, and now are suddenly outraged because its happening under Trump.

Furthermore, you can bet the house WAY more than just 2000 kids were temporarily separated from their families in Obamas 8 years.

Trump has broken you like most of the hard left. You are arguing nonsensical and dishonest points.

No dishonesty here - it’s just not what you want to hear.

As I told you in the other thread since apparently you just want to follow me around now, there was plenty of outrage with Obama, so spare me that whole bit. I also like how you just “know” what my opinions were the entirety of the past 9 years. Talk about dishonest and nonsensical.

When Obama did his immigration EO, tons of people were shouting that he overstepped his boundaries. The cage pics from his tenure were, and are, also completely unacceptable.

And yeah - more than 2000 unaccompanied or endangered kids probably did come through in EIGHT years. Not anywhere close to a rate of 2000 in 6 weeks though.

So you're saying that the numbers have increased and the actions taken, while appropriate for numbers under 2000 over 8 years, is inappropriate for for an increase in that activity over 6 weeks? Is that some of that infamous liberal logic I keep hearing about?

That should tell you one of two things; the Obama numbers are so low because his administration chose not to aggressively enforce existing law or they are so high now because the current administration understands that despite the lefts best efforts we are a still a country whose justice system is based on the rule of law and has chosen to enforce those laws.

(06-20-2018 10:39 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 10:23 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 10:13 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 07:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 06:46 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Fake news

If its Trump and Sessions policy then why did the Obama administration separate countless thousands of children from their families for 8 years?

Amercian citizens who break the law face possible separation from their children, why do illegals deserve more? They broke the law and came across the border KNOWING they can be temporality separated.

Mainly becaue he cant read plain english. The part he bolded actually says the Flores case "UNAMBIGUOUSLY applies to BOTH ACCOMPANIED and UNACCOMPANIED minors". The reversal only allows a loophole to release the minor to the parents---but its not going to be applicable if parents are in jail (because you again invoke the upheld portion of the Flores settlement)---which is the case for families illegally crossing the border. Basically, the parents have to be out of jail.

......and they were up until this April, except for the cases where the parents were guilty of other criminal acts, OR the kids weren’t with their actual families & were in potential danger if they stayed with them.

I read it clearly - you guys just don’t want to admit that the April policy is what changed everything.

The policy changed in one way. The federal law was actually being enforced.

The law does not require the charge to be upped - it was civil/misdemeanor before, and the law was being followed. The party in power now just wants to create a crisis about it to get the laws changed.

Again, you don't seem to understand that anyone engaged in a crime and caught, whether it be a misdemeanor or a felony, can be and usually are charged with a crime and in the case of misdemeanors that often means being taken to the pokie.

I'm no lawyer but even I understand that misdemeanors are crimes.

(06-20-2018 02:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 02:22 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 02:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 01:16 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/o...-56434.pdf

Cernovich? He thinks Hillary Clinton ran a child sex ring in a non-existent basement of a Pizza parlor but Trump isn't doing something new to harm the children of aslyum seekers.

Read the link to the actual court documents you ******* cartoon character.

Where's the part about closing the legal border crossings to induce asylum seekers to cross at unauthrorized points so that ICE can charge them with a misdemenor so they can separate families for purposes of political leverage? I didn't see that.

Yes, where is that part? Where is it actually happening? What support for your claim?

Trumps initial decision was bad - Check
People, lots of people, let their feelings be known - Check
Trump probably gets some party pressure to rethink policy - Check
Trump get advisory pressure to rethink policy - Check
Trump rethinks policy and makes a change to make it better - Check

So what is the problem here? People make mistakes and correct them (or at least try to) every single day. Trump gets roasted by the very same people who would do the exact same thing (by procedure at least). He's not a hero for fixing a wrong he created, but at least he did the right thing be changing his position and making it better.....

We have some fake news in this thread. One cannot apply for asylum at an embassy or consulate. They ask for temporary protection but then that would be a touch and go task.

(06-21-2018 07:14 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 10:39 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 10:23 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 10:13 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 07:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Mainly becaue he cant read plain english. The part he bolded actually says the Flores case "UNAMBIGUOUSLY applies to BOTH ACCOMPANIED and UNACCOMPANIED minors". The reversal only allows a loophole to release the minor to the parents---but its not going to be applicable if parents are in jail (because you again invoke the upheld portion of the Flores settlement)---which is the case for families illegally crossing the border. Basically, the parents have to be out of jail.

......and they were up until this April, except for the cases where the parents were guilty of other criminal acts, OR the kids weren’t with their actual families & were in potential danger if they stayed with them.

I read it clearly - you guys just don’t want to admit that the April policy is what changed everything.

The policy changed in one way. The federal law was actually being enforced.

The law does not require the charge to be upped - it was civil/misdemeanor before, and the law was being followed. The party in power now just wants to create a crisis about it to get the laws changed.

Again, you don't seem to understand that anyone engaged in a crime and caught, whether it be a misdemeanor or a felony, can be and usually are charged with a crime and in the case of misdemeanors that often means being taken to the pokie.

I'm no lawyer but even I understand that misdemeanors are crimes.

You seem to misunderstand that if these people had been charged with misdemeanors as they had in the past, there wouldn't be this massive uptick in kids separated from their families. They would be held together in a detention center.

The problem is not with people entering illegally being detained, nor with them being charged with illegal entry. It's with the kids being separated from their parents (with no real plan on how to effectively reunite them) because they have NOW chosen to charge as felonies, when all along it's been misdemeanors.

(06-20-2018 11:28 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 02:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 02:22 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 02:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 01:16 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/o...-56434.pdf

Cernovich? He thinks Hillary Clinton ran a child sex ring in a non-existent basement of a Pizza parlor but Trump isn't doing something new to harm the children of aslyum seekers.

Read the link to the actual court documents you ******* cartoon character.

Where's the part about closing the legal border crossings to induce asylum seekers to cross at unauthrorized points so that ICE can charge them with a misdemenor so they can separate families for purposes of political leverage? I didn't see that.

Really? Look at all of the consulate and embassy locations one can go to seek asylum without going to the US boarder and putting "your children" at risk...

Correct. These are Econmic refugees—-not political asylum seekers.