http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com...from-2009/

In addition to Washington State facing some financial issues, Kansas is having some major football revenue issues. Ticket sales are down 65% since 2009. Hopefully, the $300 million expansion project helps turns things around.

3-9 is their best record since ‘09. Bet they wish they could bring back Mangino and his World’s Largest Underpants.

Love how antique their stadium looks, but the seats seem so far away.

(05-07-2018 10:01 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Hopefully, the $300 million expansion project helps turns things around.

Improving the team is more important than improving the stadium, though. If you can't even sell any hope of contending, good luck selling more tickets.

I made a comment on the other board last week, in response to someone making the shallow, worn-out comment about Rutgers not winning at football even though they have Big Ten money: Everyone else in the Big Ten also has Big Ten TV money, and there are several teams that are more attractive to football players and coaches and have a lot more money than Rutgers, because selling out football stadiums every week and hauling in giant donations gets you a lot more money than even the Big Ten's TV money.

Kansas has the same problem. They're never going to have the ticket revenue of OU or UT, and they're never going to have the donations to football that those two (and Ok St and TCU) rake in. On top of that, it's likely that the big donors that KU does have want to earmark their donations for basketball because they want to be associated with a perennial winner and get choice seats at the NCAA tournament every year.

(05-07-2018 10:51 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 10:01 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Hopefully, the $300 million expansion project helps turns things around.

Improving the team is more important than improving the stadium, though. If you can't even sell any hope of contending, good luck selling more tickets.

I made a comment on the other board last week, in response to someone making the shallow, worn-out comment about Rutgers not winning at football even though they have Big Ten money: Everyone else in the Big Ten also has Big Ten TV money, and there are several teams that are more attractive to football players and coaches and have a lot more money than Rutgers, because selling out football stadiums every week and hauling in giant donations gets you a lot more money than even the Big Ten's TV money.

Kansas has the same problem. They're never going to have the ticket revenue of OU or UT, and they're never going to have the donations to football that those two (and Ok St and TCU) rake in. On top of that, it's likely that the big donors that KU does have want to earmark their donations for basketball because they want to be associated with a perennial winner and get choice seats at the NCAA tournament every year.

Rutgers success in large part depends on breaking a long tradition of top level in-state players going somewhere else. It's the same issue Ole Miss and Miss St face with Alabama and LSU often being an in-state player's first choices.

(05-07-2018 11:25 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 10:51 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 10:01 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Hopefully, the $300 million expansion project helps turns things around.

Improving the team is more important than improving the stadium, though. If you can't even sell any hope of contending, good luck selling more tickets.

I made a comment on the other board last week, in response to someone making the shallow, worn-out comment about Rutgers not winning at football even though they have Big Ten money: Everyone else in the Big Ten also has Big Ten TV money, and there are several teams that are more attractive to football players and coaches and have a lot more money than Rutgers, because selling out football stadiums every week and hauling in giant donations gets you a lot more money than even the Big Ten's TV money.

Kansas has the same problem. They're never going to have the ticket revenue of OU or UT, and they're never going to have the donations to football that those two (and Ok St and TCU) rake in. On top of that, it's likely that the big donors that KU does have want to earmark their donations for basketball because they want to be associated with a perennial winner and get choice seats at the NCAA tournament every year.

Rutgers success in large part depends on breaking a long tradition of top level in-state players going somewhere else. It's the same issue Ole Miss and Miss St face with Alabama and LSU often being an in-state player's first choices.

There are some places in the world which kids just want to get away from. Mississippi and New Jersey are probably two of them.

(05-07-2018 12:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 11:25 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 10:51 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 10:01 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Hopefully, the $300 million expansion project helps turns things around.

Improving the team is more important than improving the stadium, though. If you can't even sell any hope of contending, good luck selling more tickets.

I made a comment on the other board last week, in response to someone making the shallow, worn-out comment about Rutgers not winning at football even though they have Big Ten money: Everyone else in the Big Ten also has Big Ten TV money, and there are several teams that are more attractive to football players and coaches and have a lot more money than Rutgers, because selling out football stadiums every week and hauling in giant donations gets you a lot more money than even the Big Ten's TV money.

Kansas has the same problem. They're never going to have the ticket revenue of OU or UT, and they're never going to have the donations to football that those two (and Ok St and TCU) rake in. On top of that, it's likely that the big donors that KU does have want to earmark their donations for basketball because they want to be associated with a perennial winner and get choice seats at the NCAA tournament every year.

Rutgers success in large part depends on breaking a long tradition of top level in-state players going somewhere else. It's the same issue Ole Miss and Miss St face with Alabama and LSU often being an in-state player's first choices.

There are some places in the world which kids just want to get away from. Mississippi and New Jersey are probably two of them.

We also have 3 pro teams playing within a 90 minute drive of our campus. Works against making Rutgers a destination and no other team in the country has that working against them.

Any team that wants to go from the bottom of a P5 conference to being a consistent contender (as opposed to having one fluke season every 30 years) has to make their program as good as or better than those at the top of their league. I don't see a way for Rutgers to do that unless at least two of the top four programs in their division self-destruct.

Kansas has it a little easier, in theory. Snyder at K-State showed that a coach can build a program over several years that can become top 4 in the Big 12, even a team with marginal facilities in a state that doesn't produce many elite football players. But what Snyder did at K-State probably puts him among the 10 best all-time in college football, and almost every other coach that has done that well did so at a program with some built-in advantages that K-State and KU don't have.

(05-07-2018 01:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Any team that wants to go from the bottom of a P5 conference to being a consistent contender (as opposed to having one fluke season every 30 years) has to make their program as good as or better than those at the top of their league. I don't see a way for Rutgers to do that unless at least two of the top four programs in their division self-destruct.

Kansas has it a little easier, in theory. Snyder at K-State showed that a coach can build a program over several years that can become top 4 in the Big 12, even a team with marginal facilities in a state that doesn't produce many elite football players. But what Snyder did at K-State probably puts him among the 10 best all-time in college football, and almost every other coach that has done that well did so at a program with some built-in advantages that K-State and KU don't have.

It might be argued that Kansas should put the two campuses under 1 umbrella and combine the sports programs. Football and Basketball in that state would benefit from not having to split recruits.

Since they fired Mangino, they have really missed on each of the head coaches they hired. Gill was a failure. Weis was a failure. Beaty, thus far, has been a failure. With the resources and scheduling, there is no reason that Kansas should be this bad for this long in football.

(05-07-2018 01:50 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Since they fired Mangino, they have really missed on each of the head coaches they hired. Gill was a failure. Weis was a failure. Beaty, thus far, has been a failure. With the resources and scheduling, there is no reason that Kansas should be this bad for this long in football.

Yes there is. There are too many programs pulling from too few recruits in the American Heartland now. It's stagnant to negative in population growth and outside of playing Texas they don't have any trips to the richer talent pools. Ohio State and Michigan dominate recruiting to the Northeast and even Nebraska struggles to find the annual crop they once produced. Missouri suffers the same fate and is the only P school in their state of 6 million. It's just tough to find enough 4 stars or higher to field a competitive team. Snyder succeeds because he coaches to improve the 3 star players he gets. Most of the rest now seek the best talent and hope they can win with it. And when you can play in California or in the Horseshoe in Columbus, or in the Sunny South it's just hard to get kids to stay in Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, or Missouri. And when those numbers are thin to begin with it makes it even harder.

(05-07-2018 01:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 01:50 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Since they fired Mangino, they have really missed on each of the head coaches they hired. Gill was a failure. Weis was a failure. Beaty, thus far, has been a failure. With the resources and scheduling, there is no reason that Kansas should be this bad for this long in football.

Yes there is. There are too many programs pulling from too few recruits in the American Heartland now. It's stagnant to negative in population growth and outside of playing Texas they don't have any trips to the richer talent pools. Ohio State and Michigan dominate recruiting to the Northeast and even Nebraska struggles to find the annual crop they once produced. Missouri suffers the same fate and is the only P school in their state of 6 million. It's just tough to find enough 4 stars or higher to field a competitive team. Snyder succeeds because he coaches to improve the 3 star players he gets. Most of the rest now seek the best talent and hope they can win with it. And when you can play in California or in the Horseshoe in Columbus, or in the Sunny South it's just hard to get kids to stay in Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, or Missouri. And when those numbers are thin to begin with it makes it even harder.

I think the model for Kansas and the other heartland schools is what Coach Snyder did at K-State: Texas, Florida and the JUCO circuit.

Iowa State is sort of doing that right now by hitting the state of Ohio hard in recruiting the past couple of cycles. They hired Matt Campbell who is an Ohio guy who also recruited Florida and Georgia extensively while at Toledo.

(05-07-2018 02:13 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I think the model for Kansas and the other heartland schools is what Coach Snyder did at K-State: Texas, Florida and the JUCO circuit.

Snyder built up his program by taking far more juco players and transfers than other schools would take (at the time) and by bringing in players with significant academic and/or legal issues that other schools deemed too risky. Similar to what Kiffin is doing at FAU now, though obviously FAU can only go so far because the ceiling is much lower in CUSA than in the Big 12. After K-State strung together a few consecutive winning seasons, it became easier to recruit some players out of recruit-rich places like Texas and Florida.

(05-07-2018 01:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 01:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Any team that wants to go from the bottom of a P5 conference to being a consistent contender (as opposed to having one fluke season every 30 years) has to make their program as good as or better than those at the top of their league. I don't see a way for Rutgers to do that unless at least two of the top four programs in their division self-destruct.

Kansas has it a little easier, in theory. Snyder at K-State showed that a coach can build a program over several years that can become top 4 in the Big 12, even a team with marginal facilities in a state that doesn't produce many elite football players. But what Snyder did at K-State probably puts him among the 10 best all-time in college football, and almost every other coach that has done that well did so at a program with some built-in advantages that K-State and KU don't have.

It might be argued that Kansas should put the two campuses under 1 umbrella and combine the sports programs. Football and Basketball in that state would benefit from not having to split recruits.

The State University of Kansas Wildhawks.

(05-07-2018 02:52 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 01:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 01:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Any team that wants to go from the bottom of a P5 conference to being a consistent contender (as opposed to having one fluke season every 30 years) has to make their program as good as or better than those at the top of their league. I don't see a way for Rutgers to do that unless at least two of the top four programs in their division self-destruct.

Kansas has it a little easier, in theory. Snyder at K-State showed that a coach can build a program over several years that can become top 4 in the Big 12, even a team with marginal facilities in a state that doesn't produce many elite football players. But what Snyder did at K-State probably puts him among the 10 best all-time in college football, and almost every other coach that has done that well did so at a program with some built-in advantages that K-State and KU don't have.

It might be argued that Kansas should put the two campuses under 1 umbrella and combine the sports programs. Football and Basketball in that state would benefit from not having to split recruits.

The State University of Kansas Wildhawks.

And what is wrong with the "Jaycats?"

(05-07-2018 01:50 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Since they fired Mangino, they have really missed on each of the head coaches they hired. Gill was a failure. Weis was a failure. Beaty, thus far, has been a failure. With the resources and scheduling, there is no reason that Kansas should be this bad for this long in football.

Turner Gill got the Kansas job after going 20-30 at Buffalo. He had one winning season when they won 8 games and the 8th win was a surprise upset of #12 Ball State. He went 5-7 the next year and for some reason Kansas hired him.

They replaced Gill with Charlie Weiss who had spent a year as OC for the Chiefs and one as OC for Florida after being dismissed by Notre Dame. Now it makes no sense to me why anyone hires a rebound coach from a school that is just as advantaged or often more advantaged than the schools they play and then underachieves. He averaged 7 wins at Notre Dame, this isn't Frank Solich who averaged just shy of 10 wins a year at Nebraska with three top 10 rankings in six years and just couldn't meet fan expectations.

That's two hires at Kansas that any reasonable observer was baffled by when they happened.

Beaty wasn't an obviously bad hire to the casual observer. Now if you are a coaching change watcher, you are puzzled why a guy who was OC for a bad Rice team that didn't score much outside of two games and was co-OC for a Kansas team that only managed to put up points on an FCS and a MAC school his one year gets handed the reins when the three seasons before being hired, he's a position coach at a supposedly peer school.

It could well be argued that the greatest obstacle to Kansas football has been Kansas Athletic Directors.

(05-07-2018 04:51 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 01:50 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Since they fired Mangino, they have really missed on each of the head coaches they hired. Gill was a failure. Weis was a failure. Beaty, thus far, has been a failure. With the resources and scheduling, there is no reason that Kansas should be this bad for this long in football.

Turner Gill got the Kansas job after going 20-30 at Buffalo. He had one winning season when they won 8 games and the 8th win was a surprise upset of #12 Ball State. He went 5-7 the next year and for some reason Kansas hired him.

They replaced Gill with Charlie Weiss who had spent a year as OC for the Chiefs and one as OC for Florida after being dismissed by Notre Dame. Now it makes no sense to me why anyone hires a rebound coach from a school that is just as advantaged or often more advantaged than the schools they play and then underachieves. He averaged 7 wins at Notre Dame, this isn't Frank Solich who averaged just shy of 10 wins a year at Nebraska with three top 10 rankings in six years and just couldn't meet fan expectations.

That's two hires at Kansas that any reasonable observer was baffled by when they happened.

Beaty wasn't an obviously bad hire to the casual observer. Now if you are a coaching change watcher, you are puzzled why a guy who was OC for a bad Rice team that didn't score much outside of two games and was co-OC for a Kansas team that only managed to put up points on an FCS and a MAC school his one year gets handed the reins when the three seasons before being hired, he's a position coach at a supposedly peer school.

It could well be argued that the greatest obstacle to Kansas football has been Kansas Athletic Directors.

Les Miles still wants to work. Kansas should think about that. He would rebuild them from the ground up in a nuts and bolts kind of way that they really, really need.

Championships? Probably not, but he would leave them well enough schooled and balanced that a young up and coming coach would be a lot more willing to build upon that.

(05-07-2018 01:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Kansas has it a little easier, in theory. Snyder at K-State showed that a coach can build a program over several years that can become top 4 in the Big 12, even a team with marginal facilities in a state that doesn't produce many elite football players. But what Snyder did at K-State probably puts him among the 10 best all-time in college football, and almost every other coach that has done that well did so at a program with some built-in advantages that K-State and KU don't have.

I think KU's big problem is that they're a basketball-crazy school in a basketball-centric state with low population while going up against the exact opposite in conference play. Other P5 basketball schools like IU/Kentucky are close to regional recruiting hotbeds and go up against under-resourced programs (e.g. Vandy, Rutgers) in their division to provide a bit of a buffer, KU doesn't have either advantage. I don't think it's a coincidence that their success under Mangino coincided with the Ron Prince era for K-State, the state may realistically be only to maintain one good football program at a time.

(05-07-2018 04:51 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Beaty wasn't an obviously bad hire to the casual observer. Now if you are a coaching change watcher, you are puzzled why a guy who was OC for a bad Rice team that didn't score much outside of two games and was co-OC for a Kansas team that only managed to put up points on an FCS and a MAC school his one year gets handed the reins when the three seasons before being hired, he's a position coach at a supposedly peer school.

It could well be argued that the greatest obstacle to Kansas football has been Kansas Athletic Directors.

Eh, I think hiring a position coach screamed 'small time' from the start. Yeah Beaty was recruiting coordinator for an A&M program that was solid, but very seldom does a college position coach make it big in FBS (Urban Meyer is the only one who comes to mind). But to your point, the fact the AD extended him through 2021 after the 2016 season where they did nothing but pull a win against an apathetic Texas team just shows the lack of care put into Jayhawk football.

(05-07-2018 10:51 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 10:01 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Hopefully, the $300 million expansion project helps turns things around.

Improving the team is more important than improving the stadium, though. If you can't even sell any hope of contending, good luck selling more tickets.

You need better players to win. You need better facilities to attract better players (and fans). I believe that $300m includes more than just the stadium. Isn't there an indoor practice facility and some other upgrades included??

(05-07-2018 09:05 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 10:51 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 10:01 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Hopefully, the $300 million expansion project helps turns things around.

Improving the team is more important than improving the stadium, though. If you can't even sell any hope of contending, good luck selling more tickets.

You need better players to win. You need better facilities to attract better players (and fans). I believe that $300m includes more than just the stadium. Isn't there an indoor practice facility and some other upgrades included??

Yes. They are replacing the port-o-lets with flush toilets.

(05-07-2018 06:25 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 01:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Kansas has it a little easier, in theory. Snyder at K-State showed that a coach can build a program over several years that can become top 4 in the Big 12, even a team with marginal facilities in a state that doesn't produce many elite football players. But what Snyder did at K-State probably puts him among the 10 best all-time in college football, and almost every other coach that has done that well did so at a program with some built-in advantages that K-State and KU don't have.

I think KU's big problem is that they're a basketball-crazy school in a basketball-centric state with low population while going up against the exact opposite in conference play. Other P5 basketball schools like IU/Kentucky are close to regional recruiting hotbeds and go up against under-resourced programs (e.g. Vandy, Rutgers) in their division to provide a bit of a buffer, KU doesn't have either advantage. I don't think it's a coincidence that their success under Mangino coincided with the Ron Prince era for K-State, the state may realistically be only to maintain one good football program at a time.

(05-07-2018 04:51 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Beaty wasn't an obviously bad hire to the casual observer. Now if you are a coaching change watcher, you are puzzled why a guy who was OC for a bad Rice team that didn't score much outside of two games and was co-OC for a Kansas team that only managed to put up points on an FCS and a MAC school his one year gets handed the reins when the three seasons before being hired, he's a position coach at a supposedly peer school.

It could well be argued that the greatest obstacle to Kansas football has been Kansas Athletic Directors.

Eh, I think hiring a position coach screamed 'small time' from the start. Yeah Beaty was recruiting coordinator for an A&M program that was solid, but very seldom does a college position coach make it big in FBS (Urban Meyer is the only one who comes to mind). But to your point, the fact the AD extended him through 2021 after the 2016 season where they did nothing but pull a win against an apathetic Texas team just shows the lack of care put into Jayhawk football.

I don't understand the love and fascination fans and AD's have for recruiting coordinators who are working at big name brand schools. Memphis did it with LSU's recruiting coordinator, well LSU is going to land some big names just by being LSU, just like TAMU is going to land some really great recruits by simply offering them.

When you are recruiting coordinator at say Oregon State and land a top class and can survive NCAA scrutiny that will impress me. But the truth is many recruiting coordinators as basically administrators. Their "coordination" is making sure that the other assistants are making their calls, texts and getting their letters out and making sure everything is set up right for visits.