(04-20-2018 12:09 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 09:56 AM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's be honest, the statues were put up to thumb their nose at blacks during the civil rights era. Now if they were taken down illegally, that's not cool. Has a court or some state body ruled on the legality?

Ive posted before that I dont give a whit about the statues themselves. Its just more ridiculous virtue signaling. A divisive waste of time and money. A defacing of culture. Its more Memphis stupid crap.

"I've always ignored them," Barkley said of the Confederate statues. "I'm 54 years old. I've never thought about those statues a day in my life. I think if you ask most black people, to be honest, they ain’t thought a day in their life about those stupid statues."

"What we as black people need to do is we need to worry about our education. We need to stop killing each other. We need to try to find a way to have more economic opportunity in things like that," he said."
-Charles Barkley

time and money? Seems like they took them down in a matter of hours.

I love the whole circumvented law thing as the folks in Nashville created the Tennessee Historical Commission and back loaded it with Sons of Confederate Veterans members just to stop Memphis/it's citizens from deciding what should or shouldn't be in their own parks...a sham solution was used to go around a sham law. Par for the course IMHO.

(04-20-2018 12:06 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(04-19-2018 01:03 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(04-19-2018 12:20 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  So, to recap:

Memphis finds a legal route around the Tennessee Historical Commission (somehow populated by some members of the Sons of Confederate Veterans) which attempted to block the city’s choice to remove monuments of Jefferson Davis & Nathan Bedford Forrest. These statues weren't even erected during or after the Civil War, but during the Civil Rights Movement (1964) & Jim Crow era (1905) respectively, to try to make sure AA's remembered "their place."

Representatives from small towns in completely different regions/counties of the state don't like the fact that Memphis dared to decide for itself who to honor (or not honor) in its own parks, and handled it LEGALLY, so they decide to "punish" the city by withholding money for their budget. Not that the amount withheld will be life-changing - plans for the city's bicentennial will go on as planned, but it's simple-minded pettiness on part of the house to even suggest, much less approve this.

Tell you what - next time Dresden, Jonesborough, or Parkers Crossroads wants funding for something, how about we let the reps from Memphis make their budget decisions for them?

How about next time Memphis wants to do this, they get together with the people and state leaders and figure out a solution to the problem instead of trying to do something shady in the middle of the night?

Um, they did. The Sons of Confederate Veterans - oops - I mean, the TN Historical Commission - wouldn't even listen. They exhausted all avenues that the state provided for them.

They followed the legal parameters required of them - the people who don't want the statues down (i.e., people NOT in Memphis) just weren't paying attention. Memphis beat them at their own game, and they got petty.

They didnt beat anyone at their own game. This was a stupid political stunt pulled by someone who thought he was being cute. You havent "won" when you still have to deal with the fallout.

(04-20-2018 12:40 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 12:09 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 09:56 AM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's be honest, the statues were put up to thumb their nose at blacks during the civil rights era. Now if they were taken down illegally, that's not cool. Has a court or some state body ruled on the legality?

Ive posted before that I dont give a whit about the statues themselves. Its just more ridiculous virtue signaling. A divisive waste of time and money. A defacing of culture. Its more Memphis stupid crap.

"I've always ignored them," Barkley said of the Confederate statues. "I'm 54 years old. I've never thought about those statues a day in my life. I think if you ask most black people, to be honest, they ain’t thought a day in their life about those stupid statues."

"What we as black people need to do is we need to worry about our education. We need to stop killing each other. We need to try to find a way to have more economic opportunity in things like that," he said."
-Charles Barkley

time and money? Seems like they took them down in a matter of hours.

love ya, mean it. dont care enough to comment further. bowing out. peace.

(04-20-2018 12:39 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 12:16 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 12:09 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 09:56 AM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's be honest, the statues were put up to thumb their nose at blacks during the civil rights era. Now if they were taken down illegally, that's not cool. Has a court or some state body ruled on the legality?

Ive posted before that I dont give a whit about the statues themselves. Its just more ridiculous virtue signaling. A divisive waste of time and money. A defacing of culture. Its more Memphis stupid crap.

It was an even bigger waste of time & money for the city to leave the situation as-is....and is it really "defacing of culture" when the statues were put up purposely to belittle black people in Memphis? These weren't put up during reconstruction; they were erected during Jim Crow and the Civil Rights movement eras.

Erecting statues to try to remind black people to "stay in their place" is not a "culture" anyone wants to keep around. Well, maybe except for memphistigers1988.

If the sons of confederate veterans hadn't had the Forrest statue AND his remains moved from Elmwood (where he & his family requested it be), none of this would have been an issue. They created their own monster.

yeah, i understand all that. after sneaking in and circumventing law they honored his wishes. I understand all that virtue signaling foolishness. Ive commented way more than I care. Simpletons can tear down statues all day. Tear it all down. Tear everything built by a slave owner. Burn every document written by a slave owner. Hunt down all the descendants of slave owners. Well done. Free coffee at starbucks.

The city made no bones about the fact that they wanted the statues down before MLK50, and had been working on that through the state channels for months, if not years. That's not virtue signaling; that's common sense.

Had the TN historical commission okayed it, they would have come down one day and the hullaballoo would have gone away with them.
But of course, that didn't happen. What the city did from there was legal; no laws were broken; just no one just chose to pay attention, so there was no shadiness or "sneaking in."

Again, it's done, and all of us had moved on, but the TN legislature apparently still wants to be petty, so now here we are. Thank the OP for being salty about it.

(04-20-2018 12:44 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 12:06 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(04-19-2018 01:03 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(04-19-2018 12:20 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  So, to recap:

Memphis finds a legal route around the Tennessee Historical Commission (somehow populated by some members of the Sons of Confederate Veterans) which attempted to block the city’s choice to remove monuments of Jefferson Davis & Nathan Bedford Forrest. These statues weren't even erected during or after the Civil War, but during the Civil Rights Movement (1964) & Jim Crow era (1905) respectively, to try to make sure AA's remembered "their place."

Representatives from small towns in completely different regions/counties of the state don't like the fact that Memphis dared to decide for itself who to honor (or not honor) in its own parks, and handled it LEGALLY, so they decide to "punish" the city by withholding money for their budget. Not that the amount withheld will be life-changing - plans for the city's bicentennial will go on as planned, but it's simple-minded pettiness on part of the house to even suggest, much less approve this.

Tell you what - next time Dresden, Jonesborough, or Parkers Crossroads wants funding for something, how about we let the reps from Memphis make their budget decisions for them?

How about next time Memphis wants to do this, they get together with the people and state leaders and figure out a solution to the problem instead of trying to do something shady in the middle of the night?

Um, they did. The Sons of Confederate Veterans - oops - I mean, the TN Historical Commission - wouldn't even listen. They exhausted all avenues that the state provided for them.

They followed the legal parameters required of them - the people who don't want the statues down (i.e., people NOT in Memphis) just weren't paying attention. Memphis beat them at their own game, and they got petty.

They didnt beat anyone at their own game. This was a stupid political stunt pulled by someone who thought he was being cute. You havent "won" when you still have to deal with the fallout.

Fallout? Getting $250K "removed" that the city never even requested in the first place? The state apparently "gave" Memphis this money in order to pull this nonsense, which makes it even more petty.

If anyone's dealing with fallout it's the state legislature, since this story has now been splashed all across everything from the CA to the BBC.

(04-20-2018 12:10 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 09:58 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-19-2018 04:05 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  As a race they were barely removed from the savagery of the jungle and largely uncivilized, barely able to make it on their own through no fault of their own.

Link?

So you think the average black person in 1850 was sophisticated and civilized enough to handle their own affairs effectively. Got it.

Yes.

Quote:Antebellum slaveowners experimented with a variety of other methods to increase productivity. They developed an elaborate system of “hand ratings” in order to improve the match between the slave worker and the job. Hand ratings categorized slaves by age and sex and rated their productivity relative to that of a prime male field hand. Masters also capitalized on the native intelligence of slaves by using them as agents to receive goods, keep books, and the like.

This served as a sort of working capital, enabling slaves to establish thriving businesses that often benefited their masters as well. Yet these practices may have helped lead to the downfall of slavery, for they gave slaves a taste of freedom that left them longing for more.

One element that contributed to the profitability of New World slavery was the African heritage of slaves. Africans, more than indigenous Americans, were accustomed to the discipline of agricultural practices and knew metalworking. Some scholars surmise that Africans, relative to Europeans, could better withstand tropical diseases and, unlike Native Americans, also had some exposure to the European disease pool.

But slavery cannot be thought of as benign. In terms of material conditions, diet, and treatment, Southern slaves may have fared as well in many ways as the poorest class of free citizens. Yet the root of slavery is coercion. By its very nature, slavery involves involuntary transactions. Slaves are property, whereas free laborers are persons who make choices (at times constrained, of course) about the sort of work they do and the number of hours they work.

The behavior of former slaves after abolition clearly reveals that they cared strongly about the manner of their work and valued their non-work time more highly than masters did. Even the most benevolent former masters in the U.S. South found it impossible to entice their former chattels back into gang work, even with large wage premiums. Nor could they persuade women back into the labor force: many female ex-slaves simply chose to stay at home. In the end, perhaps slavery is an economic phenomenon only because slave societies fail to account for the incalculable costs borne by the slaves themselves.

https://eh.net/encyclopedia/slavery-in-t...ed-states/

But by all means...keep further revealing your "true" self.

(04-20-2018 12:43 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  I love the whole circumvented law thing as the folks in Nashville created the Tennessee Historical Commission and back loaded it with Sons of Confederate Veterans members just to stop Memphis/it's citizens from deciding what should or shouldn't be in their own parks...a sham solution was used to go around a sham law. Par for the course IMHO.

It was obvious as to why it was set up but it was still the law. The City Council knew it and they broke it. They had to expect backlash. Was the loss of money worth the gain i political capital? We'll find out.

(04-20-2018 02:10 PM)JTiger Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 12:43 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  I love the whole circumvented law thing as the folks in Nashville created the Tennessee Historical Commission and back loaded it with Sons of Confederate Veterans members just to stop Memphis/it's citizens from deciding what should or shouldn't be in their own parks...a sham solution was used to go around a sham law. Par for the course IMHO.

It was obvious as to why it was set up but it was still the law. The City Council knew it and they broke it. They had to expect backlash. Was the loss of money worth the gain i political capital? We'll find out.

what loss of money? read the CA today...they literally put that money in the budget just to take it away as a statement. Memphis was never going to get that 250k.

(04-20-2018 02:34 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 02:10 PM)JTiger Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 12:43 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  I love the whole circumvented law thing as the folks in Nashville created the Tennessee Historical Commission and back loaded it with Sons of Confederate Veterans members just to stop Memphis/it's citizens from deciding what should or shouldn't be in their own parks...a sham solution was used to go around a sham law. Par for the course IMHO.

It was obvious as to why it was set up but it was still the law. The City Council knew it and they broke it. They had to expect backlash. Was the loss of money worth the gain i political capital? We'll find out.

what loss of money? read the CA today...they literally put that money in the budget just to take it away as a statement. Memphis was never going to get that 250k.

did you donate to the go fund me page yet?

(04-20-2018 02:10 PM)JTiger Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 12:43 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  I love the whole circumvented law thing as the folks in Nashville created the Tennessee Historical Commission and back loaded it with Sons of Confederate Veterans members just to stop Memphis/it's citizens from deciding what should or shouldn't be in their own parks...a sham solution was used to go around a sham law. Par for the course IMHO.

It was obvious as to why it was set up but it was still the law. The City Council knew it and they broke it.

The state comptroller disagrees.

The Memphis City Council and the Mayor made a back door to get this done. To get this done they had to change a few city ordinances, it was a back room deal. There was no public knowledge of this being done. The City had the statues moved in the middle of the night.

(04-20-2018 09:26 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 09:23 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 09:20 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 06:31 AM)JTiger Wrote:  

(04-19-2018 01:03 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  How about next time Memphis wants to do this, they get together with the people and state leaders and figure out a solution to the problem instead of trying to do something shady in the middle of the night?

Did the Memphis City Council really think this was going to be no retaliation from Nashville? Grow up.

does Nashville really think 250k is going to do anything? Memphis would have paid that in a second to rid themselves of that particular issue.

Have you seen the disparity in highway funds available to Memphis versus Nashville, Knoxville, and Chattanooga? Its about 500million.

uh, didn't we just get the largest TDOT project ever? moreover that money wasn't going to road work anyway so lets not go moving the goal posts around.

Yes, the I-40 flyover was the most expensive TDOT project to date.

But let's compare the amount of work TDOT has done on Nashville's interstate system compared to Memphis' interstate system.

One big dollar project does not even come close to the amount they've poured into N'ville's interstate system.