So does a degree from each of the campuses mean the same as a degree from the flagship? Does the flagship get a lot of special privileges the other campuses don't? For schools in a state's 'system' and schools with multiple campuses, how does the governing / financing of athletics work? Could someone who went to IUPUI, for example, say they went to Indiana University? (After all, IUPUI is part of the Indiana University system and they are all considered Hoosiers) So confusing.

(04-18-2018 09:36 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  A lot of these schools like being able to attach themselves to the UT or A&M branding, particularly if they were not independent U's before.

But honestly I'd have no issue with A&M-Kingsville returning to its original name of Texas A&I or UTEP returning to Texas Western if they wanted to market themselves that way

I think UTEP is fine. People know what UTEP is, thanks in no smart part to Tim Hardaway and the UTEP 2-Step. No reason to screw around with a perfectly cromulent brand.

(04-17-2018 08:15 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Are you asking about why other schools within a university system have athletic teams, or are you concerned that other schools have athletic teams not named the same as the main campus?

Both, and I'm concerned how they're governed / financed. For example, UTSA or UTEP really could be considered a 'minor' league team if the same people directly running it are also running the Texas Longhorn's athletics. I guess this was the main point in creating my thread and I didn't even really ask it.

If so teams like UTSA and UTEP could really just be considered the Texas Longhorn's freshman team..................

(04-17-2018 11:03 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  California tops all of you:

University of California has 6 (Berkeley, Davis, Irvine, Los Angeles, Riverside, Santa Barbara), soon to be 7 (San Diego) D-I campuses, a D-III campus (Santa Cruz), and a NAIA campus (Merced), all with their own Chancellor. 9 in all.

Diploma's read University of California, <Location>

And we have a whopping 23 campus California State University, each with their own President and Athletic Department as well.

However, I can tell you the diplomas from the four distinct names do not say California State University:

Humboldt State University
San Diego State University
San Francisco State University
San Jose State University
Sonoma State University

But all the CSU schools do say "California State University, <location>" regardless of how the school brands itself:

Fresno (Fresno State), Chico (Chico State), Fullerton, Long Beach ('confusing'), Monterey Bay, San Bernadino, Los Angeles, Channel Islands, Bakersfield, Sacramento (Sac State), Stanislaw (Stan State), East Bay, Northridge, San Marcos, Dominguez Hills

Cal Poly (San Luis Obspo) diplomas read "California Polytechnic State University"
Cal Poly Pomona diplomas read "California State Polytechnic University, Pomona"
California Maritime Academy reads "California Maritime Academy"

It's a branding nightmare. Donald Gerth (former President of Sacramento State), has claimed that the weak California State University identity has contributed to the CSU's perceived lack of prestige when compared to the University of California. This no doubt is why every school goes it's own way with branding.

The UC System share one set of trustees, and the CSU System also share one set of trustees. It was meant to be allow economy of scale, but with so many schools it results in a certain remoteness and inability to respond to challenges. Very different than in States with just a few campuses.

The second to last sentence is truer than you think.

Two years in a row, "someone I know who works for a CSU" (maybe me) received his August paycheck 7 weeks late. The reason? "Oh, we had trouble figuring out how the 2016 union contract changed the value of the your bonus." Twice.

In the age of the internet, someone's paycheck sat on some idiot's desk in Sacramento for 7 f-ing weeks. Twice in 13 months. That's bureaucracy so bad it's Calibureaucracy.

(04-18-2018 04:20 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  So does a degree from each of the campuses mean the same as a degree from the flagship? Does the flagship get a lot of special privileges the other campuses don't? For schools in a state's 'system' and schools with multiple campuses, how does the governing / financing of athletics work? Could someone who went to IUPUI, for example, say they went to Indiana University? (After all, IUPUI is part of the Indiana University system and they are all considered Hoosiers) So confusing.

The part that you seem to be confused about isn’t really that confusing. A system can contain multiple schools in the same way that a corporation can have multiple subsidiaries. Attending and getting a degree from IUPUI is NOT the same as attending and getting a degree from Indiana University - Bloomington. They are separate units with separate degrees with separate admissions requirements with separate athletic departments with separate management despite the fact that they are administratively part of the same public university system. It would be like me taking a job as an account manager at Walt Disney World in Orlando and then claiming on my resume that I have the same position at The Walt Disney Company headquarters based out of Burbank - that would be a gross misrepresentation and patently false. Those are totally different corporate units despite having the same parent company. Same thing with IUPUI compared to IU, or UC-Berkeley compared to UCLA compared to other University of California schools, etc.

Now, how those university systems are managed or funded are completely different from state-to-state. There’s no real consistency among the states, so *that* technical aspect could be somewhat confusing. Still, it should be pretty clear that getting a degree from UNC-Greensboro has absolutely no academic relation to getting a degree from UNC-Chapel Hill - they are completely different schools from an academic perspective (and in turn, a sports perspective).

(04-18-2018 05:34 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 04:20 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  So does a degree from each of the campuses mean the same as a degree from the flagship? Does the flagship get a lot of special privileges the other campuses don't? For schools in a state's 'system' and schools with multiple campuses, how does the governing / financing of athletics work? Could someone who went to IUPUI, for example, say they went to Indiana University? (After all, IUPUI is part of the Indiana University system and they are all considered Hoosiers) So confusing.

The part that you seem to be confused about isn’t really that confusing. A system can contain multiple schools in the same way that a corporation can have multiple subsidiaries. Attending and getting a degree from IUPUI is NOT the same as attending and getting a degree from Indiana University - Bloomington. They are separate units with separate degrees with separate admissions requirements with separate athletic departments with separate management despite the fact that they are administratively part of the same public university system. It would be like me taking a job as an account manager at Walt Disney World in Orlando and then claiming on my resume that I have the same position at The Walt Disney Company headquarters based out of Burbank - that would be a gross misrepresentation and patently false. Those are totally different corporate units despite having the same parent company. Same thing with IUPUI compared to IU, or UC-Berkeley compared to UCLA compared to other University of California schools, etc.

Now, how those university systems are managed or funded are completely different from state-to-state. There’s no real consistency among the states, so *that* technical aspect could be somewhat confusing. Still, it should be pretty clear that getting a degree from UNC-Greensboro has absolutely no academic relation to getting a degree from UNC-Chapel Hill - they are completely different schools from an academic perspective (and in turn, a sports perspective).

In the IUPUI example given, IUPUI degrees only state Indiana U or Purdue U depending on which what the specific IUPUI college is affiliated with. Same goes for IPFW, soon to be split into PUFW and IUFW. A transcript is needed to ascertain the degree origins, as the diploma is ambiguous.

IUPUI degrees in health fields are often better, as IUPUI isn’t a slouch, but IPFW has issues.

(04-17-2018 10:30 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-17-2018 08:59 PM)RobtheAggie Wrote:  What it comes down to is the way the school is accredited. If University of Texas had one accreditation for all of its campuses, they would be able to have one set of athletic teams. If each campus receives a separate accreditation, they can each have athletics. In the first example I gave, all sports do not have to be on the same campus. For example UT-Austin could have football, UT-Dallas - Basketball, UT-El Paso - Softball etc.

Nailed it.

Nope. It is really up to the school to apply for NCAA membership. Pitt has four regional campuses in Johnstown, Greensburg, Bradford, and Titusville. All fall under its main Pittsburgh campus accreditation although they are fairly self-standing. The first 3 schools are full-four year colleges, while Titusville is only a 2-year school.

Pitt-Johnstown's sports programs (the Mountain Cats) are NCAA Division II and compete in the Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference (PSAC). Pitt-Greensburg (the Bobcats) and Pitt-Bradford (the Panthers) are NCAA Division III and both compete in the Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference. Titusville (the Panthers) only has about 300 students and offers only a couple of non-NCAA varsity sports that compete in the United States Collegiate Athletic Association (USCAA), which btw, is what 13 of Penn State's regional campuses compete in.

It was actually Pitt-Johnstown, in 1975, that was the first regional or branch campus of a major university which didn't have its own separate accreditation to be granted NCAA membership. That happened after about 6 years of trying and being rejected.

So system schools like say A&M-San Antonio or A&M-Corpus Christi are independent stand alone universities that are members of the Texas A&M University System. Diplomas from those schools are from those schools, not from Texas A&M College Station.

Now we also have what's called branch campuses which are different. Texas A&M Galveston is a branch of Texas A&M College Station where our maritime related programs are based. Students there are eligible for everything a student at the CS campus student is including tickets to athletic events

You can go to Arkansas State - MidSouth in West Memphis (go Greyhounds!) and get an associates degree under MidSouth's accreditation. You can also stay on campus there for two more years and get a bachelor's degree, but the bachelor's degree is from Arkansas State Jonesboro campus. Mid-South is NOT a branch campus of AState in Jonesboro if you are getting an associate's degree or a certification, but it is a branch campus or satellite campus if you prefer.

If a campus issues degrees under its own authority it isn't a branch campus even if the top official answers to a system administrator and a board overseeing multiple schools.

(04-18-2018 08:32 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Nope. It is really up to the school to apply for NCAA membership. Pitt has four regional campuses in Johnstown, Greensburg, Bradford, and Titusville. All fall under its main Pittsburgh campus accreditation although they are fairly self-standing. The first 3 schools are full-four year colleges, while Titusville is only a 2-year school.

Pitt-Johnstown's sports programs (the Mountain Cats) are NCAA Division II and compete in the Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference (PSAC). Pitt-Greensburg (the Bobcats) and Pitt-Bradford (the Panthers) are NCAA Division III and both compete in the Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference. Titusville (the Panthers) only has about 300 students and offers only a couple of non-NCAA varsity sports that compete in the United States Collegiate Athletic Association (USCAA), which btw, is what 13 of Penn State's regional campuses compete in.

It was actually Pitt-Johnstown, in 1975, that was the first regional or branch campus of a major university which didn't have its own separate accreditation to be granted NCAA membership. That happened after about 6 years of trying and being rejected.

I did not know about the Pitt example. I thought they were stand alone campuses and under a separate accreditation.

(04-18-2018 09:37 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  You can go to Arkansas State - MidSouth in West Memphis (go Greyhounds!) and get an associates degree under MidSouth's accreditation. You can also stay on campus there for two more years and get a bachelor's degree, but the bachelor's degree is from Arkansas State Jonesboro campus. Mid-South is NOT a branch campus of AState in Jonesboro if you are getting an associate's degree or a certification, but it is a branch campus or satellite campus if you prefer.

If a campus issues degrees under its own authority it isn't a branch campus even if the top official answers to a system administrator and a board overseeing multiple schools.

Arkansas Tech-Ozark also a branch campus of Tech. They do not have any sports programs there.

(04-18-2018 05:24 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  The second to last sentence is truer than you think.

Two years in a row, "someone I know who works for a CSU" (maybe me) received his August paycheck 7 weeks late. The reason? "Oh, we had trouble figuring out how the 2016 union contract changed the value of the your bonus." Twice.

In the age of the internet, someone's paycheck sat on some idiot's desk in Sacramento for 7 f-ing weeks. Twice in 13 months. That's bureaucracy so bad it's Calibureaucracy.

That's the opposite of Californication.

Here in SC, the USC system is very powerful. USC-Columbia is the main campus, but USC-Upstate is a D1 school, and the other USCs (Sumter, Aiken, Union, Lancaster, Salkehatchie, Beaufort) all have ADs of their own. The branch campuses still have to get everything through Columbia, down to desks and how they pay their professors.

Coastal Carolina also used to be a branch campus of the University of South Carolina, until 1993. Their colors were garnet and black. It didn’t even have residence halls until 1987. When it went away from USC, it had 4,000 students. Now it has about 10,000 or so.

I know of at least one example on the private side as well. Fairleigh Dickinson in NJ is D1 for its Teaneck campus and D3 for its Madison campus. They serve different missions under the same university umbrella. What's interesting for our purposes is that the D3 campus in Madison is the idyllic campus setting with more of the traditional college student, as opposed to the D1 FDU Knights with their more urban/suburban post-WW-II campus at Teaneck/Hackensack, which serves a more diverse, non-traditional, and international student population. As far as I know, I don't think the Madison kids care about the Teaneck campus sports at all.

Either the OP or the replies are confusing me with what is actually being said:

Do you mean a school with a satellite campus?

OR

Do you mean Cal ____ or UNC ____ ?

I mean, the first one to me would mean an example like Duke's marine studies campus down in Morehead City would have its own athletic teams instead of it being... Duke... Blue Devils.

Where as the later isn't a issue as Cal ___ or all the different UNC - _____ campuses are all their own individual entity as far as a university goes and thus its own sports teams if they sponsor them.

(04-19-2018 10:30 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  Either the OP or the replies are confusing me with what is actually being said:

Do you mean a school with a satellite campus?

OR

Do you mean Cal ____ or UNC ____ ?

I mean, the first one to me would mean an example like Duke's marine studies campus down in Morehead City would have its own athletic teams instead of it being... Duke... Blue Devils.

Where as the later isn't a issue as Cal ___ or all the different UNC - _____ campuses are all their own individual entity as far as a university goes and thus its own sports teams if they sponsor them.

Well, that's an important distinction, isn't it? Some people just don't know the difference between a satellite campus, a sister campus, or whatever might exist in between those two arrangements.

Also, to make a pedantic point, there are no Cal ___ schools. There are Cal State ___ schools (some, but not all CSU campuses) and UC ____ schools, one of which is UC Berkeley (which goes by Cal, but not Cal Berkeley, when it comes to sports.) The UC schools that once went by Cal ____ have phased out the practice in their style guides.

(04-18-2018 10:29 PM)RobtheAggie Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 08:32 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Nope. It is really up to the school to apply for NCAA membership. Pitt has four regional campuses in Johnstown, Greensburg, Bradford, and Titusville. All fall under its main Pittsburgh campus accreditation although they are fairly self-standing. The first 3 schools are full-four year colleges, while Titusville is only a 2-year school.

Pitt-Johnstown's sports programs (the Mountain Cats) are NCAA Division II and compete in the Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference (PSAC). Pitt-Greensburg (the Bobcats) and Pitt-Bradford (the Panthers) are NCAA Division III and both compete in the Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference. Titusville (the Panthers) only has about 300 students and offers only a couple of non-NCAA varsity sports that compete in the United States Collegiate Athletic Association (USCAA), which btw, is what 13 of Penn State's regional campuses compete in.

It was actually Pitt-Johnstown, in 1975, that was the first regional or branch campus of a major university which didn't have its own separate accreditation to be granted NCAA membership. That happened after about 6 years of trying and being rejected.

I did not know about the Pitt example. I thought they were stand alone campuses and under a separate accreditation.

It's a tricky thing, accreditation. It should be as simple as whether a system campus confers degrees, but, that then hinges on whether the degrees are direct extensions of programs housed at the main/flagship campus. Like, are campuses mini-schools, or are they just rollover space? Do they fall under a common chancellery? Common charter?

(04-20-2018 10:37 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 10:29 PM)RobtheAggie Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 08:32 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Nope. It is really up to the school to apply for NCAA membership. Pitt has four regional campuses in Johnstown, Greensburg, Bradford, and Titusville. All fall under its main Pittsburgh campus accreditation although they are fairly self-standing. The first 3 schools are full-four year colleges, while Titusville is only a 2-year school.

Pitt-Johnstown's sports programs (the Mountain Cats) are NCAA Division II and compete in the Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference (PSAC). Pitt-Greensburg (the Bobcats) and Pitt-Bradford (the Panthers) are NCAA Division III and both compete in the Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference. Titusville (the Panthers) only has about 300 students and offers only a couple of non-NCAA varsity sports that compete in the United States Collegiate Athletic Association (USCAA), which btw, is what 13 of Penn State's regional campuses compete in.

It was actually Pitt-Johnstown, in 1975, that was the first regional or branch campus of a major university which didn't have its own separate accreditation to be granted NCAA membership. That happened after about 6 years of trying and being rejected.

I did not know about the Pitt example. I thought they were stand alone campuses and under a separate accreditation.

It's a tricky thing, accreditation. It should be as simple as whether a system campus confers degrees, but, that then hinges on whether the degrees are direct extensions of programs housed at the main/flagship campus. Like, are campuses mini-schools, or are they just rollover space? Do they fall under a common chancellery? Common charter?

In the Pitt example, academic programs and their individual certification/accreditation for specific academic fields, like engineering by ABET, are obtained separately at the regional colleges. But the general operational accreditation of the regional colleges fall under the overall accreditation for the total university by Middle States. There is only one university accreditation. Within the "system", these regional campuses are treated somewhat similar to a separate colleges within the overall university. However, the regionals have their own Presidents and administrations, but the chancellor of the university heads the overall "system" but also leads the "main" Pittsburgh campus. Only one campus has a legally separate endowment pool, and the rest all have their endowed funds within the main university endowment. Alumni of the regionals enjoy the full benefits of the alumni as the main Pittsburgh campus. The main university administration and board of trustees ultimately controls the purse strings of the regional campuses and sign off on all of their major facility and academic initiatives. One thing to note is that all four regional campuses were established while Pitt was still fully private instead of its now state-related hybrid status which it has had since 1966.

As far as NCAA membership, none of that impacts it. It's up to the colleges/campuses to apply for membership and shared or individual accreditation hasn't mattered since 1975. Of course, a parent university system has a say in what any regional/branch campuses might do.

While not a matter of precision and not always the case, in general it works like this.

Ask who the chief academic officer of a campus answers to.

Generally a university system has a chief officer (either chancellor or president depending on the nomenclature adopted) who answers directly to the board and the campus chief officers answer to that person -OR- the chief officer at each campus answers directly to the board with no chief or executive officer overseeing them.

At a satellite (sometimes called branch) campus the chief officer answers to the chief officer of another campus who in turn answers to the board or the system chief officer.

For example. The UT System has a chancellor who answers to the board. The 14 schools in the UT system have a president who answers to the chancellor. In the AState system the nomenclature is reversed, having a system president and chancellors on the campuses.

(04-19-2018 10:55 PM)GiveEmTheAxe Wrote:  

(04-19-2018 10:30 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  Either the OP or the replies are confusing me with what is actually being said:

Do you mean a school with a satellite campus?

OR

Do you mean Cal ____ or UNC ____ ?

I mean, the first one to me would mean an example like Duke's marine studies campus down in Morehead City would have its own athletic teams instead of it being... Duke... Blue Devils.

Where as the later isn't a issue as Cal ___ or all the different UNC - _____ campuses are all their own individual entity as far as a university goes and thus its own sports teams if they sponsor them.

Well, that's an important distinction, isn't it? Some people just don't know the difference between a satellite campus, a sister campus, or whatever might exist in between those two arrangements.

The satellite campus side in Ohio was raised in one of the earlier responses, with branch campuses like OSU Newark offering varsity athletics through competition with other branch campuses. But then in 2015 it was announced that varsity athletics would be cut, because of a budget shortfall.

They were the "Titans", because calling them "the Buckeyes" would have been absurd ... everyone in Licking County, Ohio knows who the Buckeyes are, and they aren't some kids playing "branch campus varsity" for fun against other branch campus teams. ...
... heck, even though I grew up in Licking County, and my mom did her first two years worth of her bachelor's degree (part time) at the OSU Newark branch campus, and I took a class there once ... I can't say "I remember the Titans" ... because until I saw the above reference to OSU branch campus varsity athletics and looked it up on Google, I had no idea that they existed, never mind what they were called.