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Pink p*ssy hats are racist and transphobic
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Pink p*ssy hats are racist and transphobic
(04-17-2018 08:46 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 10:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 09:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 09:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  What? Who cares what one person thinks. Look, there are always an very isolated person that wants to hijack any left leaning movement to their particular interest. I call it 'assclowning'. Basically what happens is that one particular movement within the left/centrist movement gains traction. Then some self appointed person with no support and no followers with a fifth derivative agenda that few of us understand much less support demands that everyone stop what they're doing and support what this one person wants, and demand that we let them lead it and continue to fund it and support it too btw. Our usual response....go ahead make your comment. We will politely listen to it. And then in 99 percent of the cases we thank them for their input and just continue full speed ahead. They get a small forum because we try to operate on consensus, but because they usually don't have any support, thats all they usually get. In rare cases, they can convince people to work on their particular issue, but that's really rare.

So no, a 250,000 person Gay rights or gun control or BLM or womens rights or immigrants rights march isn't going to stop so that we can discuss Bolivian poverty or something completely irrelevant to our discussion. And a 'feminist' and 'leftist' who think that Transwomen aren't women isn't going to successfully demand that the left do much of anything. Easiest thing to do in this case is just have the leaders of the Trans community respond to this claptrap and shut them down. Or the women's movement.

Don't confuse our way of dealing with it, which is to let them go on with their complaint - then appoint (not them) a Transperson or feminist to an additional committee that will just play ball, with them actually getting anywhere with it.

These people, while usually a huge waste of our time, usually don't get anywhere.

You're already forgetting they dropped the pink hats because they decided they were racist.

Lots of people wore them at the March against the NRA I went to in DC last month. Not one person that I saw had so much as one complaint about them. Not. One. Person. I had to look up 'pink hats racist' on google to even see what the issue was about. And I go to lots of liberal events. And more than a few of them are predominantly led by persons of color. Never heard a word about it. When I looked it up (just now), I saw a few of the predictable diatribes on 'never read self publish sites' accusing whites in the liberal movement of 'racism' because we do anything, and cheerleading of these 'never read sites' by conservative groups.

I can promise you that most people of color, women, and Transgendered activists I interact with are concerned a lot more about other things than what kind of hat people who generally and broadly support just about every item on their agendas are wearing. After the Bernie Bros were used by Trump and the Greens were aided by the Russians to get us Trump, I really have little use for the 'super woke' crowd. And I'm not alone in this.

How could a pink puzzy hat be racist? They're all pink on the inside.

The black ones are more of a purple.
04-17-2018 01:47 PM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #22
RE: Pink p*ssy hats are racist and transphobic
(04-17-2018 01:47 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 08:46 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 10:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 09:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 09:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  What? Who cares what one person thinks. Look, there are always an very isolated person that wants to hijack any left leaning movement to their particular interest. I call it 'assclowning'. Basically what happens is that one particular movement within the left/centrist movement gains traction. Then some self appointed person with no support and no followers with a fifth derivative agenda that few of us understand much less support demands that everyone stop what they're doing and support what this one person wants, and demand that we let them lead it and continue to fund it and support it too btw. Our usual response....go ahead make your comment. We will politely listen to it. And then in 99 percent of the cases we thank them for their input and just continue full speed ahead. They get a small forum because we try to operate on consensus, but because they usually don't have any support, thats all they usually get. In rare cases, they can convince people to work on their particular issue, but that's really rare.

So no, a 250,000 person Gay rights or gun control or BLM or womens rights or immigrants rights march isn't going to stop so that we can discuss Bolivian poverty or something completely irrelevant to our discussion. And a 'feminist' and 'leftist' who think that Transwomen aren't women isn't going to successfully demand that the left do much of anything. Easiest thing to do in this case is just have the leaders of the Trans community respond to this claptrap and shut them down. Or the women's movement.

Don't confuse our way of dealing with it, which is to let them go on with their complaint - then appoint (not them) a Transperson or feminist to an additional committee that will just play ball, with them actually getting anywhere with it.

These people, while usually a huge waste of our time, usually don't get anywhere.

You're already forgetting they dropped the pink hats because they decided they were racist.

Lots of people wore them at the March against the NRA I went to in DC last month. Not one person that I saw had so much as one complaint about them. Not. One. Person. I had to look up 'pink hats racist' on google to even see what the issue was about. And I go to lots of liberal events. And more than a few of them are predominantly led by persons of color. Never heard a word about it. When I looked it up (just now), I saw a few of the predictable diatribes on 'never read self publish sites' accusing whites in the liberal movement of 'racism' because we do anything, and cheerleading of these 'never read sites' by conservative groups.

I can promise you that most people of color, women, and Transgendered activists I interact with are concerned a lot more about other things than what kind of hat people who generally and broadly support just about every item on their agendas are wearing. After the Bernie Bros were used by Trump and the Greens were aided by the Russians to get us Trump, I really have little use for the 'super woke' crowd. And I'm not alone in this.

How could a pink puzzy hat be racist? They're all pink on the inside.

The black ones are more of a purple.

I can vouch that a couple were really pink on the inside.

But lets be honest, who thinks Tom, seen many ******* on the inside?
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2018 02:48 PM by WKUYG.)
04-17-2018 02:13 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Pink p*ssy hats are racist and transphobic
(04-17-2018 12:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  And the APA and the AMA both agree that gender is not determined by genitals. And that someone born with a p(nis or V8gina CAN have a gender that is incongruent with their organs.

If you want to boil down being a man to nothing more than having a P*nis then that's on you. Gender is far more complex that that, and that's not just me but the overwhelming majority of professionals and medical experts.

Actually this isn't entirely true, but you're demonstrating the issue pretty well

Sex and gender aren't the same thing. Being gay has to do with gender which is why we talk about gender identity. Having a ***** has to do with genetics/sex. Being trans has to do with changing from one sex to the other, hence the term... I'll go with you that some people are born with 'both' sexes, but this is exceedingly rare. We don't have testicles that produce estrogen or ovaries that produce estrogen that I'm aware of, but certainly someone may have testicles that produce very little testosterone and/or in rare cases, both testicles AND ovaries. Vastly more often, you have people who were born one sex, but for any of a variety of reasons (including but not limited to medical) feel more comfortable being the other.

I personally don't have a problem with someone wanting to identify as whatever they wish to identify as.... because the reality is that if your side Tom pushes this too far, the reaction is going to be to demand that people identify their genetics in order to qualify for 'special' treatment, which I'm sure isn't what you want... because while it may be a small number (or not), there ARE people for whom being gay or trans IS a choice... and those people deserve respect as well.

Where my problem comes in is granting special legal treatment based on simple claims with no requirement to wear a special vest or have a doctors note etc like many disabled people have to do... OR in their demanding that I for some reason know that they wish to be referred to as Ze or Hir and mocking me if I don't know. Of ALL people, those seeking to not be ridiculed etc should pass that same courtesy on.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2018 03:00 PM by Hambone10.)
04-17-2018 02:58 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Pink p*ssy hats are racist and transphobic
(04-17-2018 02:58 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 12:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  And the APA and the AMA both agree that gender is not determined by genitals. And that someone born with a p(nis or V8gina CAN have a gender that is incongruent with their organs.

If you want to boil down being a man to nothing more than having a P*nis then that's on you. Gender is far more complex that that, and that's not just me but the overwhelming majority of professionals and medical experts.

Actually this isn't entirely true, but you're demonstrating the issue pretty well

Sex and gender aren't the same thing. Being gay has to do with gender which is why we talk about gender identity. Having a ***** has to do with genetics/sex. Being trans has to do with changing from one sex to the other, hence the term... I'll go with you that some people are born with 'both' sexes, but this is exceedingly rare. We don't have testicles that produce estrogen or ovaries that produce estrogen that I'm aware of, but certainly someone may have testicles that produce very little testosterone and/or in rare cases, both testicles AND ovaries. Vastly more often, you have people who were born one sex, but for any of a variety of reasons (including but not limited to medical) feel more comfortable being the other.

I personally don't have a problem with someone wanting to identify as whatever they wish to identify as.... because the reality is that if your side Tom pushes this too far, the reaction is going to be to demand that people identify their genetics in order to qualify for 'special' treatment, which I'm sure isn't what you want... because while it may be a small number (or not), there ARE people for whom being gay or trans IS a choice... and those people deserve respect as well.

Where my problem comes in is granting special legal treatment based on simple claims with no requirement to wear a special vest or have a doctors note etc like many disabled people have to do... OR in their demanding that I for some reason know that they wish to be referred to as Ze or Hir and mocking me if I don't know. Of ALL people, those seeking to not be ridiculed etc should pass that same courtesy on.

Sexual orientation, Gender, and Sexual organ assignation are all separate and discrete things. Sexual orientation is not the same as gender identity.
04-17-2018 03:36 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Pink p*ssy hats are racist and transphobic
(04-17-2018 03:36 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 02:58 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 12:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  And the APA and the AMA both agree that gender is not determined by genitals. And that someone born with a p(nis or V8gina CAN have a gender that is incongruent with their organs.

If you want to boil down being a man to nothing more than having a P*nis then that's on you. Gender is far more complex that that, and that's not just me but the overwhelming majority of professionals and medical experts.

Actually this isn't entirely true, but you're demonstrating the issue pretty well

Sex and gender aren't the same thing. Being gay has to do with gender which is why we talk about gender identity. Having a ***** has to do with genetics/sex. Being trans has to do with changing from one sex to the other, hence the term... I'll go with you that some people are born with 'both' sexes, but this is exceedingly rare. We don't have testicles that produce estrogen or ovaries that produce estrogen that I'm aware of, but certainly someone may have testicles that produce very little testosterone and/or in rare cases, both testicles AND ovaries. Vastly more often, you have people who were born one sex, but for any of a variety of reasons (including but not limited to medical) feel more comfortable being the other.

I personally don't have a problem with someone wanting to identify as whatever they wish to identify as.... because the reality is that if your side Tom pushes this too far, the reaction is going to be to demand that people identify their genetics in order to qualify for 'special' treatment, which I'm sure isn't what you want... because while it may be a small number (or not), there ARE people for whom being gay or trans IS a choice... and those people deserve respect as well.

Where my problem comes in is granting special legal treatment based on simple claims with no requirement to wear a special vest or have a doctors note etc like many disabled people have to do... OR in their demanding that I for some reason know that they wish to be referred to as Ze or Hir and mocking me if I don't know. Of ALL people, those seeking to not be ridiculed etc should pass that same courtesy on.

Sexual orientation, Gender, and Sexual organ assignation are all separate and discrete things. Sexual orientation is not the same as gender identity.

I don't understand your point, Tom.

Your comment was that the AMA support your position. That's not really true.

Sex (male or female from a medical perspective) involves the presence of genes that produce things like testicles vs ovaries. While that doesn't guarantee the presence of an innie or an outie, it certainly has an extremely strong correlation and is considered a genetic anomolie when it doesn't... Q56.4 in ICD 10.

and numerous medical practices and recommendations are based on the 'sex' of the patient.

The AMA certainly supports the rights of people to identify as they see fit, choose their partners and generally have cosmetic or corrective surgery to reflect it... but that's not what you implied.


SEX (essentially) IS as simple as having a ***** or not. Not 100%, but those for whom it isn't are considered by the AMA to have a medical condition/genetic anomolie. I'm not saying they are bad people or anything like that, but surely you'd admit that someone who has to go through surgery to 'correct' something has a medical issue.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2018 04:48 PM by Hambone10.)
04-17-2018 04:44 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Pink p*ssy hats are racist and transphobic
(04-16-2018 09:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  [quote='Tom in Lazybrook' pid='15252756' dateline='1523932716']
What? Who cares what one person thinks.

These people, while usually a huge waste of our time, usually don't get anywhere.

You're right. You're one person so why should we care what YOU think? I don't I have you on ignore because you're an _____. But, posters keep quoting you so I read what I'd rather not.
04-17-2018 06:09 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Pink p*ssy hats are racist and transphobic
(04-17-2018 06:09 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 09:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  [quote='Tom in Lazybrook' pid='15252756' dateline='1523932716']
What? Who cares what one person thinks.

These people, while usually a huge waste of our time, usually don't get anywhere.

You're right. You're one person so why should we care what YOU think? I don't I have you on ignore because you're an _____. But, posters keep quoting you so I read what I'd rather not.

LOL. I'll let you go back to your journey with Jesus Christ, as evidenced by your "I root for". I know Him though your works. LOL.
04-17-2018 06:17 PM
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geosnooker2000 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Pink p*ssy hats are racist and transphobic
(04-17-2018 11:00 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 12:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 12:06 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  They need to come up with another term than "x-phobic". I am against classifying any individual as anything other than what they are. If you have a *****, you are a male. If you have a ******, you are a female. If you are BORN WITH both, you are a transsexual. Adding the suffix "phobic" indicates that I am somehow "afraid" of these people who are lying to themselves and society about what they are. I assure you, I am not afraid of them. Feel sorry for them? Yes. Disagree with them? Yes. Afraid of them? Not by a long shot.

Now that's where you and I disagree.

I think that the term homophobic is sometimes misplaced, if taken on its literal (afraid of Gays) rather than contemporary meaning (hatred of Gays). Transphobic usually means literally afraid of Transpeople. Heck the anti-Trans folks have spent a lot of time and money arguing that Trans anything will lead to their daughters getting raped in restrooms. I think that while Transphobic can mean "hatred of Trans persons" it usually ALSO means 'afraid of Transpersons".

And the APA and the AMA both agree that gender is not determined by genitals. And that someone born with a p(nis or V8gina CAN have a gender that is incongruent with their organs.

If you want to boil down being a man to nothing more than having a P*nis then that's on you. Gender is far more complex that that, and that's not just me but the overwhelming majority of professionals and medical experts.

Well, I have a feeling you have people like me in mind when you use the label "Homophobic" or "Transphobic", and that's what I'm talking about. I neither hate, nor am afraid of either.

I am a herpetophobe. I have a healthy fear of snakes, maybe even an irrational one.

I do not think gays, Lesbians, or "trans-genders" are deserving of special rights or recognition or protection under the law - any more protection than straight people. I can sit across the table with any of them and have a cup of coffee and have wonderful conversations (and actually HAVE), go bowling, play golf, whatever, without any fear of them, or any compulsion to do them harm.

Can you see the difference between the two? Words mean things. Even suffixes.

No reasonable response?
04-18-2018 12:52 PM
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MrMeeseeks Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Pink p*ssy hats are racist and transphobic
(04-18-2018 12:52 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  No reasonable response?

Trying to have a reasonable mature adult conversation with Tom is like playing chess with a pigeon.

[Image: pigeon.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2018 02:06 PM by MrMeeseeks.)
04-18-2018 02:04 PM
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geosnooker2000 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Pink p*ssy hats are racist and transphobic
(04-18-2018 02:04 PM)MrMeeseeks Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 12:52 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  No reasonable response?

Trying to have a reasonable mature adult conversation with Tom is like playing chess with a pigeon.

I think the interesting question would be, why did I capitalize "lesbians"?
04-18-2018 05:01 PM
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