(04-13-2018 11:05 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 10:57 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 09:02 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 08:54 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 07:56 AM)ken d Wrote:  So, potentially Fox Sports would free up assets now devoted to pro sports, which they could now use to expand coverage of college sports. Would that be a correct reading of this?

FOX, FS1 and FS2 contracts are different than those of the regionals. This doesn't free up any space on those networks.

What it does it bolster ESPN's new app. All those RSN streaming rights are going to go to that app and a lot of the ESPN3 games will get moved to those networks.

What it frees up most for Fox, it seems to me, is money with which to bid for more desirable college properties than they now have on FS1 and FS2.

The problem that Fox has now is with college properties- they're next cycle going to be playing defense quite a bit. They already have Big Ten, Big 12, and Pac 12.

I'd say it frees up money to go after pro stuff quite frankly. NHL and then getting more of the MLB.

Do you think this signals that Fox intends to back away some from competition with ESPN for college sports? That wouldn't bode well for any conferences that have come to rely on megabucks from their media deals. No reason for ESPN to continue to bid high if Fox isn't pushing them to do so.

But if Fox wants to pursue more MLB and NHL, why would they now be selling off all they currently have? And why would ESPN be buying them if they thought Fox was going to turn around and compete with them for those same assets?

After the Disney-Fox deal closes, the Murdochs will be in charge of Fox, and will also be the largest shareholder of Disney.

If Fox and ESPN are driving up the price of sports TV rights by bidding against each other, the Murdochs will effectively be bidding against themselves and making the cost of those rights more expensive for whomever acquires them.

I suppose that could be justified if they only intend to hold onto the remaining Fox properties for a short time before selling them off, and the strategy is to tie down extremely valuable sports TV rights to make Fox more attractive to potential buyers. But if that's the strategy, that suggests doubling down on the highest-value pro sports TV rights, like they're doing with the NFL. And if they're going to flip Fox to another buyer in the short term, then only the TV rights up for bid in the next 2-4 years are relevant.

(04-13-2018 12:29 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 11:05 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 10:57 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 09:02 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 08:54 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  FOX, FS1 and FS2 contracts are different than those of the regionals. This doesn't free up any space on those networks.

What it does it bolster ESPN's new app. All those RSN streaming rights are going to go to that app and a lot of the ESPN3 games will get moved to those networks.

What it frees up most for Fox, it seems to me, is money with which to bid for more desirable college properties than they now have on FS1 and FS2.

The problem that Fox has now is with college properties- they're next cycle going to be playing defense quite a bit. They already have Big Ten, Big 12, and Pac 12.

I'd say it frees up money to go after pro stuff quite frankly. NHL and then getting more of the MLB.

Do you think this signals that Fox intends to back away some from competition with ESPN for college sports? That wouldn't bode well for any conferences that have come to rely on megabucks from their media deals. No reason for ESPN to continue to bid high if Fox isn't pushing them to do so.

But if Fox wants to pursue more MLB and NHL, why would they now be selling off all they currently have? And why would ESPN be buying them if they thought Fox was going to turn around and compete with them for those same assets?

After the Disney-Fox deal closes, the Murdochs will be in charge of Fox, and will also be the largest shareholder of Disney.

If Fox and ESPN are driving up the price of sports TV rights by bidding against each other, the Murdochs will effectively be bidding against themselves and making the cost of those rights more expensive for whomever acquires them.

I suppose that could be justified if they only intend to hold onto the remaining Fox properties for a short time before selling them off, and the strategy is to tie down extremely valuable sports TV rights to make Fox more attractive to potential buyers. But if that's the strategy, that suggests doubling down on the highest-value pro sports TV rights, like they're doing with the NFL. And if they're going to flip Fox to another buyer in the short term, then only the TV rights up for bid in the next 2-4 years are relevant.

Wouldn't an arrangement like that be considered monopolistic, and therefore not pass regulatory muster? Wouldn't entities like CBS and NBC be howling at the top of their lungs over this? Or is this just an opportunistic move to take advantage of the current political power structure?

Your next paragraph describes exactly why monopolies are (or were) frowned on. If, in the next round of bidding, the SEC, B1G et al get a severe haircut in their media contracts, wouldn't they be screaming along with CBS and NBC? Or does it really matter to them how much they get as long as everybody else gets the same haircut?

(04-13-2018 07:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Analysts say that of the $52B Disney is paying for the FOX properties, about $22B is for those regional sports networks. They carry a LOT of content, and could help bolster ESPN content and streaming moves.

I'm guessing we overestimate that. Those streaming rights are already spoken for, either through the leagues or through the existing contracts between the franchises and the RSNs. I highly doubt that this deal will suddenly allow ESPN to put Cincinatti Reds games on an app because ESPN is now under the same roof as (Fox) Sports Ohio. MLB already has a national app. And ESPN putting Reds games on a zipcode-locked part of the app would be governed by the contracts that the Reds already have with FSO. Rinse, lather and repeat across the landscape.

(04-13-2018 07:56 AM)ken d Wrote:  So, potentially Fox Sports would free up assets now devoted to pro sports, which they could now use to expand coverage of college sports. Would that be a correct reading of this?

Um, what?

I guess you're looking at the Fox Sports empire as a lot more centralized than it actually is. The money MASN pays the Washington NAtionals for their games isn't primarily from MASN's corporate parent, it's primarily from projected subscriber and advertising revenues. If Fox' share of MASN transfers from Fox to Disney, that doesn't free up a pot of money for Fox to use somewhere else. (I have no idea if Fox has a piece of MASN).

There are some synergies to having the RSNs attached to a national network, but the RSNs are very easy to detach from the rest of the holdings. (With the exception of the Big 12 contract, maybe).

(04-13-2018 09:05 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Those FOX Regionals do deals with college sports. For instance, FOX SW carried a number of lower tier Big12 games. I wonder if those 3rd tier rights stay with those regional networks or remain with FOX.

Fox has tended to treat their regionals as sort-of a channel for college content. Big 12 is the most obvious (they signed their large Fox contract before FS1 was on the drawing board--at first it was all Big FOX and RSNs.) But some leftover Big East games trickle down to the RSNs, and very possibly some PAC-12 games for all I know.

That might be worked out in the main deal, or it might be left for the RSN management to work out with New Fox on a case-by-case basis. (I'm pretty sure that Fox would syndicate to a Comcast RSN and vice versa if there was an audience to justify it, so I expect ESPN RSNs to do the same)

(04-13-2018 11:05 AM)ken d Wrote:  Do you think this signals that Fox intends to back away some from competition with ESPN for college sports? That wouldn't bode well for any conferences that have come to rely on megabucks from their media deals. No reason for ESPN to continue to bid high if Fox isn't pushing them to do so.

I think a bigger issue there is the decline of ESPN. With ESPN not being as attractive as it looked 5 years ago, losing a billion dollars to build FS1 into an ESPN semi-clone doesn't look as smart.

When ESPN was making a $7 billion profit or whatever, it made sense for Fox (and NBC sometimes) to bid up the prices of marquee events to build up FS1, and you get it back down the road when FS1 grows into an ESPN peer.

Quote:But if Fox wants to pursue more MLB and NHL, why would they now be selling off all they currently have?

LOcal and national are different. Whether the RSNs that show local MLB games are Fox-branded or ESPN-branded doesn't make much difference to Fox Sports (National).

As an example, say Fox bought 100% of YES. That doesn't give them the ability to run Yankee games on Big Fox every Sunday night. IT just doesn't work that way.

Quote:And why would ESPN be buying them if they thought Fox was going to turn around and compete with them for those same assets?

ESPN and Fox Sports are still going to compete, just like they have been.

Look at it this way--the deal is Disney buying all of the Fox properties that wouldn't trigger IMMEDIATE antitrust problems. Putting ESPN and Fox Sports 1, or ABC and Fox OTA, under the same roof is an obvious antitrust problem. Putting ESPN and YES under the same roof isn't.

Another way to look at it--New Fox is keeping only the cable TV assets that can do something for their OTA network, sports and news. National broadcast rights to MLB, Fox News--yes. Local broadcast rights, no.

(04-13-2018 12:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I dont know if thats the case. My guess is that the Big12 deal is actually with FOX and Fox simply decided which deals will be on their primary platforms and the rest fell to their lower tier regional platforms. But thats just a guess.

I mostly agree with that guess. With the clause that, in the case of the Big 12 and Fox Sports Southwest, it's significant programming and not just cheap filler.

Quote: That said, if there were insufficient slots on FOX/FS1/FS2 to house that inventory before---then that same dynamic still exists. Thus, its very possible that rights for the overflow content was given to the Disney as part of the deal.

Games that Fox was providing to Fox Sports Southwest will continue to be on ESPN Sports Southwest, but ESPNSSW pays more than FSSW was paying. Is my guess.

(04-13-2018 12:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  Wouldn't an arrangement like that be considered monopolistic, and therefore not pass regulatory muster?

I think it's safe to assume that the lawyers already considered that when structuring the Disney-Fox deal, and are satisfied that it's not a monopoly problem. The Murdochs will not have any control over Disney, and while they will be the largest shareholder it's still a relatively small percentage. The only "conflict" is that, in their operation of Fox, they won't be motivated to take actions (such as making TV rights more expensive for ESPN) that could harm the value of their Disney shares. AFAIK that's not any kind of legal violation, but if someone can cite a law that makes it a violation, feel free to post a link here.

(04-13-2018 12:29 PM)Wedge Wrote:  After the Disney-Fox deal closes, the Murdochs will be in charge of Fox, and will also be the largest shareholder of Disney.

Wouldn't an arrangement like that be considered monopolistic, and therefore not pass regulatory muster? [/quote]

Apparently not. OTOH, there was originally talk of James(?) Murdoch becoming a Disney exec as part of the deal, and that was shot down. So maybe the line is common ownership is fine, but mingled executive boards are over the line?

Quote: Wouldn't entities like CBS and NBC be howling at the top of their lungs over this?

Well, they haven't.

Quote:Or is this just an opportunistic move to take advantage of the current political power structure?

I think it's more that (on a corporate level) they're looking forward to their own related shenanigans. (Comcast tried to buy Time Warner not that long ago, and I think CBS and Viacom are discussing a re-merger). On a personal level, why make enemies at Disney or at Fox, when you might need to ask them for a job someday?

Quote:Your next paragraph describes exactly why monopolies are (or were) frowned on. If, in the next round of bidding, the SEC, B1G et al get a severe haircut in their media contracts, wouldn't they be screaming along with CBS and NBC? Or does it really matter to them how much they get as long as everybody else gets the same haircut?

It matters to the SEC and Big Ten a lot. But CBS and NBC (and Turner Sports, whatever umbrella they're under by then) are in the same market, so if the haircut is too much, they can go to NBC or CBS.

(04-13-2018 08:54 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 07:56 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 07:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 07:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  Am I reading correctly that none of Fox' sports broadcasting will move to Disney? If so, does this affect the sports landscape in any significant way?

Very. From Sporting News:

"Disney will acquire all 22 Fox Sports Regional Networks that carry local coverage of no fewer than 44 MLB, NBA and NHL teams across the U.S.

That doesn't include the RSNs' carriage of college football and basketball, plus the WNBA and MLS."

Analysts say that of the $52B Disney is paying for the FOX properties, about $22B is for those regional sports networks. They carry a LOT of content, and could help bolster ESPN content and streaming moves.

So, potentially Fox Sports would free up assets now devoted to pro sports, which they could now use to expand coverage of college sports. Would that be a correct reading of this?

FOX, FS1 and FS2 contracts are different than those of the regionals. This doesn't free up any space on those networks.

What it does it bolster ESPN's new app. All those RSN streaming rights are going to go to that app and a lot of the ESPN3 games will get moved to those networks.

I think you got it right. ESPN picks up an incredible amount of content and a very large expense. Just in Southern California, ESPN will add the Angels, the Kings, the Ducks and the Clippers. Fox Sports West and Fox Prime Ticket broadcast games in Southern California, San Diego, Las Vegas and Hawaii or to a population of about 25 million people. Fox Sports West will probably become ESPN Los Angeles.

Fox, on the other hand, looks well positioned to basically be the #1 network in the NFL. They added Thursday Night football. They save a lot of money by selling the regional networks. But I am not sure where the content will be coming from for FS1 and FS2. They are not in the NBA or NHL or Pro Tennis. They are not in seven of the ten FBS conferences for college football. Other than the U.S. Open, not much in Pro Golf. Most college sports are with ESPN. It will be interesting to see how FS1 and FS2 develop in the future.

(04-13-2018 01:30 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  I think you got it right. ESPN picks up an incredible amount of content and a very large expense. Just in Southern California, ESPN will add the Angels, the Kings, the Ducks and the Clippers. Fox Sports West and Fox Prime Ticket broadcast games in Southern California, San Diego, Las Vegas and Hawaii or to a population of about 25 million people. Fox Sports West will probably become ESPN Los Angeles.

You're vastly overestimating this part of the deal. (You and a lot of people on this thread.) Yes, ESPN is "picking up" this content, but not in a way relevant to ESPN as we think of it. All it means is swapping out a Fox logo in the corner of the screen for an ESPN logo, and maybe instead of a Fox Sports cheap studio highlight show, rerunning a 3 hour old SportsCenter to fill dead air.

The business you described, broadcasting the Lakers, Clippers, Angels, Dodgers, Kings, Ducks, already exists and this deal doesn't really change anything for that business.

Quote:Fox, on the other hand, looks well positioned to basically be the #1 network in the NFL. They added Thursday Night football. They save a lot of money by selling the regional networks.

To be specific, the Murdochs (and the other Fox shareholders) get a bunch of Disney stock in return for the regional networks. A New Fox is going to be created out of what's left. But it's not like that New Fox is going to be sitting on a $20B or $50B pile of cash. New Fox is going to be capitalized based on its assets--Fox OTA, local stations, Fox News (and business) and Fox Sports (OTA, FS1, FS2 and BTN).

Quote:But I am not sure where the content will be coming from for FS1 and FS2. They are not in the NBA or NHL or Pro Tennis. They are not in seven of the ten FBS conferences for college football. Other than the U.S. Open, not much in Pro Golf. Most college sports are with ESPN. It will be interesting to see how FS1 and FS2 develop in the future.

Um, FS1's slate is pretty full. MLB, some golf, soccer, Big 10, PAC, Big 12, Big East, UFC (for now), NASCAR. Very likely WWE replaces UFC after the next round of contracts.

I don't think the original vision of FS1 as a "baby ESPN" is going to come to pass. The focus is going to be more on getting big properties for Fox OTA, and using FS1 to support those properties. (I.E. Big Ten CCG on Fox, supported by a mid-tier Big Ten game-of-the-week on FS1)

(04-13-2018 10:26 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 09:55 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 09:05 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 08:54 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 07:56 AM)ken d Wrote:  So, potentially Fox Sports would free up assets now devoted to pro sports, which they could now use to expand coverage of college sports. Would that be a correct reading of this?

FOX, FS1 and FS2 contracts are different than those of the regionals. This doesn't free up any space on those networks.

What it does it bolster ESPN's new app. All those RSN streaming rights are going to go to that app and a lot of the ESPN3 games will get moved to those networks.

Those FOX Regionals do deals with college sports. For instance, FOX SW carried a number of lower tier Big12 games. I wonder if those 3rd tier rights stay with those regional networks or remain with FOX.

I'd imagine it goes to Disney...unless negotiated.

Schools whose logos are featured on the website that lists 18 Fox RSN's are:

B1G....Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan St, Wisconsin, Minnesota
B12....Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Kansas St
PAC....USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona St
SEC....Florida, Tennessee, Missouri
ACC...Florida St, Miami
BE.....Xavier, Marquette
AAC...Cincinnati
MWC..San Diego St
A10...Dayton
FCS....San Diego

Not sure how any of that squares with the primary media contracts those conferences have. Also, I do know that some stations that are part of the Fox Sports Carolinas network also air some ACC games, including FB and MBB. But I don't know how much autonomy individual stations have within those regional networks.

I also don't know why 4 RSNs weren't on that page, or which ones those are.

ESPN has Kansas Tier 3. TCU, Texas Tech and Baylor all have Tier 3 of Fox Sports Southwest, so I don't think those logos indicate much.

(04-13-2018 12:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 11:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 09:05 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 08:54 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 07:56 AM)ken d Wrote:  So, potentially Fox Sports would free up assets now devoted to pro sports, which they could now use to expand coverage of college sports. Would that be a correct reading of this?

FOX, FS1 and FS2 contracts are different than those of the regionals. This doesn't free up any space on those networks.

What it does it bolster ESPN's new app. All those RSN streaming rights are going to go to that app and a lot of the ESPN3 games will get moved to those networks.

Those FOX Regionals do deals with college sports. For instance, FOX SW carried a number of lower tier Big12 games. I wonder if those 3rd tier rights stay with those regional networks or remain with FOX.

I would bet that since the contract for those rights is with the Regionals, they would go with the Regionals to Disney.

I dont know if thats the case. My guess is that the Big12 deal is actually with FOX and Fox simply decided which deals will be on their primary platforms and the rest fell to their lower tier regional platforms. But thats just a guess. That said, if there were insufficient slots on FOX/FS1/FS2 to house that inventory before---then that same dynamic still exists. Thus, its very possible that rights for the overflow content was given to the Disney as part of the deal.

No. The Tier 3 deals were all separate from the Big 12 deal.

(04-13-2018 04:27 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 12:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 11:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 09:05 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 08:54 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  FOX, FS1 and FS2 contracts are different than those of the regionals. This doesn't free up any space on those networks.

What it does it bolster ESPN's new app. All those RSN streaming rights are going to go to that app and a lot of the ESPN3 games will get moved to those networks.

Those FOX Regionals do deals with college sports. For instance, FOX SW carried a number of lower tier Big12 games. I wonder if those 3rd tier rights stay with those regional networks or remain with FOX.

I would bet that since the contract for those rights is with the Regionals, they would go with the Regionals to Disney.

I dont know if thats the case. My guess is that the Big12 deal is actually with FOX and Fox simply decided which deals will be on their primary platforms and the rest fell to their lower tier regional platforms. But thats just a guess. That said, if there were insufficient slots on FOX/FS1/FS2 to house that inventory before---then that same dynamic still exists. Thus, its very possible that rights for the overflow content was given to the Disney as part of the deal.

No. The Tier 3 deals were all separate from the Big 12 deal.

Yeah, I'm surprised a lot of people have been saying that somehow the 3rd tier games for the big 12 schools have suddenly become ESPN's? Where is that idea coming from? Example: So Iowa St's 3rd tier agreement with "Cyclone nation network" for 1 football game a year with UNI, several basketball games and wrestling meets suddenly belong to ESPN now....No. Unless someone has info I'm unaware of?

(04-13-2018 02:07 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 01:30 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  I think you got it right. ESPN picks up an incredible amount of content and a very large expense. Just in Southern California, ESPN will add the Angels, the Kings, the Ducks and the Clippers. Fox Sports West and Fox Prime Ticket broadcast games in Southern California, San Diego, Las Vegas and Hawaii or to a population of about 25 million people. Fox Sports West will probably become ESPN Los Angeles.

You're vastly overestimating this part of the deal. (You and a lot of people on this thread.) Yes, ESPN is "picking up" this content, but not in a way relevant to ESPN as we think of it. All it means is swapping out a Fox logo in the corner of the screen for an ESPN logo, and maybe instead of a Fox Sports cheap studio highlight show, rerunning a 3 hour old SportsCenter to fill dead air.

The business you described, broadcasting the Lakers, Clippers, Angels, Dodgers, Kings, Ducks, already exists and this deal doesn't really change anything for that business.

Quote:Fox, on the other hand, looks well positioned to basically be the #1 network in the NFL. They added Thursday Night football. They save a lot of money by selling the regional networks.

To be specific, the Murdochs (and the other Fox shareholders) get a bunch of Disney stock in return for the regional networks. A New Fox is going to be created out of what's left. But it's not like that New Fox is going to be sitting on a $20B or $50B pile of cash. New Fox is going to be capitalized based on its assets--Fox OTA, local stations, Fox News (and business) and Fox Sports (OTA, FS1, FS2 and BTN).

Quote:But I am not sure where the content will be coming from for FS1 and FS2. They are not in the NBA or NHL or Pro Tennis. They are not in seven of the ten FBS conferences for college football. Other than the U.S. Open, not much in Pro Golf. Most college sports are with ESPN. It will be interesting to see how FS1 and FS2 develop in the future.

Um, FS1's slate is pretty full. MLB, some golf, soccer, Big 10, PAC, Big 12, Big East, UFC (for now), NASCAR. Very likely WWE replaces UFC after the next round of contracts.

I don't think the original vision of FS1 as a "baby ESPN" is going to come to pass. The focus is going to be more on getting big properties for Fox OTA, and using FS1 to support those properties. (I.E. Big Ten CCG on Fox, supported by a mid-tier Big Ten game-of-the-week on FS1)

Once the local networks are gone, they have only the Fox broadcast channel, which will still have the NFL and a National MLB contract. FS1 televises 40 baseball games during the regular season and a couple of PGA Tournaments as well as NASCAR and the World Cup.

Fox shares the Big12, Big 10 and Pac-12 with ESPN. Just not enough content to compete with ESPN and all of the sports networks. ESPN can use the local content to enhance the national content and also use regional network games for ESPN Plus. It feels like Disney could have bought FS1, but just didn't see the point in it.

Sounds like the FOX-RSN's have thier own deal. This is how the Big12 TV deal is explained on Matt Sarz Sports Media site---

Big 12 Broadcast Schedule

NOTE: This list includes telecasts that fall under the TV contracts for the conference. Any road non-conference games fall under the home team's telecast rights.

The Big 12 have a pair of contracts with ESPN and FOX Sports. Both contracts expire after the 2024-25 athletic year.

The ESPN deal allows for 23 games per year and games can air on ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU and Longhorn Network (see note below re: LHN). FOX's deal is for up to 40 games per year to place games on FOX, FS1, FSN and FOX College Sports. A minimum of six of FSMG's games must appear on FOX with another six on FS1. Overall, a minimum of 25 games must air on ABC, ESPN, FOX and FS1. Starting in 2017, the conference will reactivate their championship game. FOX Sports will carry the game in odd numbered years and ESPN has the rights for even numbered years.

Big 12 selection order for each week will be determined via a draft of weeks before the season. In even numbered years, FOX will retain the top choice of weeks and in odd numbered years, ESPN wiil have it.

Individual institutions will retain the rights to at least one game not aired by ABC or FSMG, allowing those institutions to explore other avenues to televising those games. Institutions can elect to return their institutional game to FOX for their package to televise.

Regarding Longhorn Network, one Texas game per year airing on the network counts as an institutional game, like all other Big 12 schools. Any subsequent Texas games airing on Longhorn Network will count towards the ESPN contract.

http://mattsarzsports.com/Contract/GameL...tE5qS7waUk

(04-13-2018 04:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 04:27 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 12:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 11:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 09:05 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Those FOX Regionals do deals with college sports. For instance, FOX SW carried a number of lower tier Big12 games. I wonder if those 3rd tier rights stay with those regional networks or remain with FOX.

I would bet that since the contract for those rights is with the Regionals, they would go with the Regionals to Disney.

I dont know if thats the case. My guess is that the Big12 deal is actually with FOX and Fox simply decided which deals will be on their primary platforms and the rest fell to their lower tier regional platforms. But thats just a guess. That said, if there were insufficient slots on FOX/FS1/FS2 to house that inventory before---then that same dynamic still exists. Thus, its very possible that rights for the overflow content was given to the Disney as part of the deal.

No. The Tier 3 deals were all separate from the Big 12 deal.

Yeah, I'm surprised a lot of people have been saying that somehow the 3rd tier games for the big 12 schools have suddenly become ESPN's? Where is that idea coming from? Example: So Iowa St's 3rd tier agreement with "Cyclone nation network" for 1 football game a year with UNI, several basketball games and wrestling meets suddenly belong to ESPN now....No. Unless someone has info I'm unaware of?

Not if the deal for T3 is with "Cyclone Nation Network", but if it's with a FOX Regional network, like Fox Sports Midwest or something, than that would then belong to Disney.

(04-13-2018 06:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 04:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 04:27 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 12:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 11:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I would bet that since the contract for those rights is with the Regionals, they would go with the Regionals to Disney.

I dont know if thats the case. My guess is that the Big12 deal is actually with FOX and Fox simply decided which deals will be on their primary platforms and the rest fell to their lower tier regional platforms. But thats just a guess. That said, if there were insufficient slots on FOX/FS1/FS2 to house that inventory before---then that same dynamic still exists. Thus, its very possible that rights for the overflow content was given to the Disney as part of the deal.

No. The Tier 3 deals were all separate from the Big 12 deal.

Yeah, I'm surprised a lot of people have been saying that somehow the 3rd tier games for the big 12 schools have suddenly become ESPN's? Where is that idea coming from? Example: So Iowa St's 3rd tier agreement with "Cyclone nation network" for 1 football game a year with UNI, several basketball games and wrestling meets suddenly belong to ESPN now....No. Unless someone has info I'm unaware of?

Not if the deal for T3 is with "Cyclone Nation Network", but if it's with a FOX Regional network, like Fox Sports Midwest or something, than that would then belong to Disney.

OU has a nice side deal going with a Fox regional to show some basketball games, wrestling meets. They are getting paid on a separate contract for it. I don’t think OU will be cool with losing that nice side deal that they signed separate from the ESPN/Fox deal. Just like Texas wouldnt be ok with losing their 15 mil a year side deal for tier 3 they have going....

(04-13-2018 06:40 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 06:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 04:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 04:27 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 12:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I dont know if thats the case. My guess is that the Big12 deal is actually with FOX and Fox simply decided which deals will be on their primary platforms and the rest fell to their lower tier regional platforms. But thats just a guess. That said, if there were insufficient slots on FOX/FS1/FS2 to house that inventory before---then that same dynamic still exists. Thus, its very possible that rights for the overflow content was given to the Disney as part of the deal.

No. The Tier 3 deals were all separate from the Big 12 deal.

Yeah, I'm surprised a lot of people have been saying that somehow the 3rd tier games for the big 12 schools have suddenly become ESPN's? Where is that idea coming from? Example: So Iowa St's 3rd tier agreement with "Cyclone nation network" for 1 football game a year with UNI, several basketball games and wrestling meets suddenly belong to ESPN now....No. Unless someone has info I'm unaware of?

Not if the deal for T3 is with "Cyclone Nation Network", but if it's with a FOX Regional network, like Fox Sports Midwest or something, than that would then belong to Disney.

OU has a nice side deal going with a Fox regional to show some basketball games, wrestling meets. They are getting paid on a separate contract for it. I don’t think OU will be cool with losing that nice side deal that they signed separate from the ESPN/Fox deal. Just like Texas wouldnt be ok with losing their 15 mil a year side deal for tier 3 they have going....

A sale doesn't cancel existing contracts. If a FOX Regional has a deal with OU, and Disney buys the Regional, the deal is still in effect. It's just that now Disney is upholding the TV side of the deal rather than the former FOX owner.

(04-13-2018 09:58 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 06:40 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 06:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 04:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 04:27 PM)bullet Wrote:  No. The Tier 3 deals were all separate from the Big 12 deal.

Yeah, I'm surprised a lot of people have been saying that somehow the 3rd tier games for the big 12 schools have suddenly become ESPN's? Where is that idea coming from? Example: So Iowa St's 3rd tier agreement with "Cyclone nation network" for 1 football game a year with UNI, several basketball games and wrestling meets suddenly belong to ESPN now....No. Unless someone has info I'm unaware of?

Not if the deal for T3 is with "Cyclone Nation Network", but if it's with a FOX Regional network, like Fox Sports Midwest or something, than that would then belong to Disney.

OU has a nice side deal going with a Fox regional to show some basketball games, wrestling meets. They are getting paid on a separate contract for it. I don’t think OU will be cool with losing that nice side deal that they signed separate from the ESPN/Fox deal. Just like Texas wouldnt be ok with losing their 15 mil a year side deal for tier 3 they have going....

A sale doesn't cancel existing contracts. If a FOX Regional has a deal with OU, and Disney buys the Regional, the deal is still in effect. It's just that now Disney is upholding the TV side of the deal rather than the former FOX owner.

Correct.

In OU's case, they're making around $7 million/year from Fox. That's not Longhorn Network money, but it's pretty good. In addition, Fox has invested in production capabilities at OU. They have content online, on their app, and on FS Southwest/FS Oklahoma. Part of the content is pay-per-view, part is distributed through Fox regional networks.

OU, OSU, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, and Kansas State have Tier 3 contracts with Fox regional networks. Those move to Disney with Fox Sports Southwest and Fox Sports Midwest.

Iowa State's Tier 3 deal is with Mediacom, the dominant cable provider in Iowa. They run Cyclones.tv. It is not with ESPN.

I'd like to see a list of movie franchises that Disney will acquire.

(04-13-2018 05:30 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  Once the local networks are gone, they have only the Fox broadcast channel, which will still have the NFL and a National MLB contract. FS1 televises 40 baseball games during the regular season and a couple of PGA Tournaments as well as NASCAR and the World Cup.

FS1 has a ton of other sports, too. Not enough to fill ESPN/2/U/News plus a bunch of online-only content, but enough to fill FS1.

The local networks have almost nothing to do with what Fox OTA and FS1 have and do.

Quote:Fox shares the Big12, Big 10 and Pac-12 with ESPN. Just not enough content to compete with ESPN and all of the sports networks. ESPN can use the local content to enhance the national content

I'm pretty sure this is hogwash. What exactly could ESPN do when they own say Prime Ticket, that they can't already do?

Quote:and also use regional network games for ESPN Plus.

No they can't. That's tied up in the league media deals.

Quote: It feels like Disney could have bought FS1, but just didn't see the point in it.

No, that would have invited flagrant antitrust problems.

(04-13-2018 06:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Sounds like the FOX-RSN's have thier own deal. This is how the Big12 TV deal is explained on Matt Sarz Sports Media site---

FOX's deal is for up to 40 games per year to place games on FOX, FS1,FSN and FOX College Sports. A minimum of six of FSMG's games must appear on FOX with another six on FS1.

http://mattsarzsports.com/Contract/GameL...tE5qS7waUk

The FSN games are from the basket of 28 games that Fox can do pretty much whatever they like with.

Looking at last year:
Kansas had 2 home games on FSN, plus one on Jayhawk TV.
Baylor had 2 home games on FS2, and 4 on FSN.
Texas Tech had 2 home games on FSN (plus the Baylor game)
West Virginia had 1 home game on ATT Sportsnet Pittsburgh, 1 on FS2
Texas had 2 home games on LHN.
Kansas State had 1 on ESPN3 and 1 on FSN
Iowa State had 1 Cyclones.tv and 1 FSN game.
Oklaohoma State had 0.
TCU had 1 home game on FSN
Oklahoma had one game on FSN PPV

(04-13-2018 06:40 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  OU has a nice side deal going with a Fox regional to show some basketball games, wrestling meets. They are getting paid on a separate contract for it. I don’t think OU will be cool with losing that nice side deal that they signed separate from the ESPN/Fox deal. Just like Texas wouldnt be ok with losing their 15 mil a year side deal for tier 3 they have going....

(04-13-2018 10:29 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 09:58 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 06:40 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 06:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 04:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Yeah, I'm surprised a lot of people have been saying that somehow the 3rd tier games for the big 12 schools have suddenly become ESPN's? Where is that idea coming from? Example: So Iowa St's 3rd tier agreement with "Cyclone nation network" for 1 football game a year with UNI, several basketball games and wrestling meets suddenly belong to ESPN now....No. Unless someone has info I'm unaware of?

Not if the deal for T3 is with "Cyclone Nation Network", but if it's with a FOX Regional network, like Fox Sports Midwest or something, than that would then belong to Disney.

OU has a nice side deal going with a Fox regional to show some basketball games, wrestling meets. They are getting paid on a separate contract for it. I don’t think OU will be cool with losing that nice side deal that they signed separate from the ESPN/Fox deal. Just like Texas wouldnt be ok with losing their 15 mil a year side deal for tier 3 they have going....

A sale doesn't cancel existing contracts. If a FOX Regional has a deal with OU, and Disney buys the Regional, the deal is still in effect. It's just that now Disney is upholding the TV side of the deal rather than the former FOX owner.

Correct.

In OU's case, they're making around $7 million/year from Fox. That's not Longhorn Network money, but it's pretty good. In addition, Fox has invested in production capabilities at OU. They have content online, on their app, and on FS Southwest/FS Oklahoma. Part of the content is pay-per-view, part is distributed through Fox regional networks.

OU, OSU, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, and Kansas State have Tier 3 contracts with Fox regional networks. Those move to Disney with Fox Sports Southwest and Fox Sports Midwest.

Iowa State's Tier 3 deal is with Mediacom, the dominant cable provider in Iowa. They run Cyclones.tv. It is not with ESPN.

So in essence Disney bought 1 more game from every Big XII team except Iowa St?

(04-14-2018 01:03 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  So in essence Disney bought 1 more game from every Big XII team except Iowa St?

As one of the least important aspects of the deal, yes.