(04-11-2018 12:52 PM)Shooters Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 12:34 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 11:58 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 11:51 AM)Stammers Wrote:  Bowen doing his job. However this turns out, I trust him.

Larry Brown will cheat over the head of Penny who looks up to him as an assistant?

I doubt it, but we don't know if Penny himself will or won't cheat. I do know that as a non P5 we will have 10X the scrutiny and if we do anything we will be punished 100X more than a P5 school. It is definitely a high risk hire. Also, maybe Bowen has access to information that many of us here don't have.

The admin obviously cares about reputation based on hiring Tubby. It's a shame that it is being forced to make another decision again, this time on a coach that goes completely against what they are trying to accomplish reputation wise.

You are capable of much more than this post which could come from a NCAA manual. What difference does it make? If Brown doesn’t recruit, that takes cheating out of the equation. Besides, it’s creating a very bad look for Bowen in a skirmish he can’t win no matter what he does now. Just shows the caliber of AD we have in place. Won't bend to public pressure when doing his job.

Opinions work both ways.

(04-11-2018 12:44 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  They said Larry’s lawyer and SMU administration has reached out to Bowen about Larry and Tom hasn’t reached back to them. What?

"They" would certainly know.

(04-11-2018 12:52 PM)Shooters Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 12:34 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 11:58 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 11:51 AM)Stammers Wrote:  Bowen doing his job. However this turns out, I trust him.

Larry Brown will cheat over the head of Penny who looks up to him as an assistant?

I doubt it, but we don't know if Penny himself will or won't cheat. I do know that as a non P5 we will have 10X the scrutiny and if we do anything we will be punished 100X more than a P5 school. It is definitely a high risk hire. Also, maybe Bowen has access to information that many of us here don't have.

The admin obviously cares about reputation based on hiring Tubby. It's a shame that it is being forced to make another decision again, this time on a coach that goes completely against what they are trying to accomplish reputation wise.

You are capable of much more than this post which could come from a NCAA manual. What difference does it make? If Brown doesn’t recruit, that takes cheating out of the equation. Besides, it’s creating a very bad look for Bowen in a skirmish he can’t win no matter what he does now. Just shows the caliber of AD we have in place. Can’t control his ego.

He can't win with a few hysterical message board posters. He for sure will win with many others IF Brown isn't hired.

Quote:If Brown doesn’t recruit, that takes cheating out of the equation

Brown has a reputation as a cheater and has been convicted 3 times. Hiring Brown reeks of desperation which is why only SMU hired him last time and why you have coaches like Bruce Pearl at Auburn, Kelvin Sampson at Houston and Mark Gottfried at Cal State Northridge.

Lots of people care about stuff like this; not you obviously.

(04-11-2018 12:42 PM)WColt45 Wrote:  And Bowen creates a rift between he and his brand new coach that was hired a month ago that has given the basketball program more hope than it has had since 2014. I realize he has concerns over Brown's past, but Penny shouldn't have to get Rudd involved every time he needs to make a decision that Bowen doesn't like. The longer he's here, the more we hear of how difficult Tom can be when he doesn't get his way. No way this should've ever gotten out of Bowen's office. Let the coach do his job and hire who he wants, Penny is ultimately responsible for his assistant's actions. Do you think anyone would blink an eye if Cal wanted to hire Brown at Kentucky?

Quote:Penny is ultimately responsible for his assistant's actions.

Easily the most insane statement in this entire debate.

Has anyone brought up the argument that maybe Bowen is trying to protect Penny? Penny is still new to the game and as most have suggested, still new to the ins and outs of the administrative processes that are involved in NCAA coaching. Brown is a guy who is used to taking the reigns and being 'the guy'. Does Bowen want to risk someone coming in that has that ego along with NCAA violation baggage? He might simply be trying to steer Penny away from any potential issues down the road until he gets his feet under him. Memphis administration has basically pushed all their chips in on this Penny hire and I'm sure they want him to succeed just as much as the rest of us. Just playing devil's advocate here.

(04-11-2018 01:02 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 12:42 PM)WColt45 Wrote:  And Bowen creates a rift between he and his brand new coach that was hired a month ago that has given the basketball program more hope than it has had since 2014. I realize he has concerns over Brown's past, but Penny shouldn't have to get Rudd involved every time he needs to make a decision that Bowen doesn't like. The longer he's here, the more we hear of how difficult Tom can be when he doesn't get his way. No way this should've ever gotten out of Bowen's office. Let the coach do his job and hire who he wants, Penny is ultimately responsible for his assistant's actions. Do you think anyone would blink an eye if Cal wanted to hire Brown at Kentucky?

Quote:Penny is ultimately responsible for his assistant's actions.

Easily the most insane statement in this entire debate.

What is insane about it? When a coach gets hit with failure to maintain institutional control, what does that mean?

I keep remembering during the Tournament...how the media talked about Kelvin Sampson and his ridiculous 'socalled' transgressions. They all mentioned how Houston took a chance on him, and what he had done for the Cougars in return.

Shouldn't the NCAA be watching the FBI fish fry? What's going on with Zona, Kansas and all those other schools mentioned on the list.

(04-11-2018 01:06 PM)WColt45 Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 01:02 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 12:42 PM)WColt45 Wrote:  And Bowen creates a rift between he and his brand new coach that was hired a month ago that has given the basketball program more hope than it has had since 2014. I realize he has concerns over Brown's past, but Penny shouldn't have to get Rudd involved every time he needs to make a decision that Bowen doesn't like. The longer he's here, the more we hear of how difficult Tom can be when he doesn't get his way. No way this should've ever gotten out of Bowen's office. Let the coach do his job and hire who he wants, Penny is ultimately responsible for his assistant's actions. Do you think anyone would blink an eye if Cal wanted to hire Brown at Kentucky?

Quote:Penny is ultimately responsible for his assistant's actions.

Easily the most insane statement in this entire debate.

What is insane about it? When a coach gets hit with failure to maintain institutional control, what does that mean?

99% of the time the coach leaves and there are no repercussions. 1% of the time they get a show cause for a year or two. It means that the school's president, AD, students, and the school as a whole take a massive hit that is almost impossible to reverse.

Saying that Penny bears the ultimate responsibility is completely insane.

(04-11-2018 12:52 PM)Shooters Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 12:34 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 11:58 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 11:51 AM)Stammers Wrote:  Bowen doing his job. However this turns out, I trust him.

Larry Brown will cheat over the head of Penny who looks up to him as an assistant?

I doubt it, but we don't know if Penny himself will or won't cheat. I do know that as a non P5 we will have 10X the scrutiny and if we do anything we will be punished 100X more than a P5 school. It is definitely a high risk hire. Also, maybe Bowen has access to information that many of us here don't have.

The admin obviously cares about reputation based on hiring Tubby. It's a shame that it is being forced to make another decision again, this time on a coach that goes completely against what they are trying to accomplish reputation wise.

You are capable of much more than this post which could come from a NCAA manual. What difference does it make? If Brown doesn’t recruit, that takes cheating out of the equation. Besides, it’s creating a very bad look for Bowen in a skirmish he can’t win no matter what he does now. Just shows the caliber of AD we have in place. Can’t control his ego.

Not true. In fact, the stuff he got popped for at SMU had nothing to do with recruiting violations.

(04-11-2018 01:07 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  I keep remembering during the Tournament...how the media talked about Kelvin Sampson and his ridiculous 'socalled' transgressions. They all mentioned how Houston took a chance on him, and what he had done for the Cougars in return.

Shouldn't the NCAA be watching the FBI fish fry? What's going on with Zona, Kansas and all those other schools mentioned on the list.

Of course and that is part of the issue that makes it trickier here to hire Brown. Non P5 schools are always going to be screwed for stuff like this.

Yes, sanctions have been handed out to the programs that Larry Brown was the head coach.

If you were hiring him as head coach, the answer would be no. The SMU saga was basically him turning a blind eye to what was going on. Probably b/c all he wanted to do was coach and not get into all the other day to day operations.

As an assistant here, he wouldn't have to worry about those day to day actions and focus on coaching/teaching. Let the other coaches check on grades, off court issues, etc.

Put explicit language in his contract to get money back if he has any compliance issue, whatever you have to do. But this should get done.

And stop saying, "oh the NCAA will really be watching us with Brown". With the FBI probe, the NCAA will be watching EVERYBODY. They'll be watching us anyway with two wealthy AAU connected coaches anyway.

(04-11-2018 01:10 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 01:06 PM)WColt45 Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 01:02 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 12:42 PM)WColt45 Wrote:  And Bowen creates a rift between he and his brand new coach that was hired a month ago that has given the basketball program more hope than it has had since 2014. I realize he has concerns over Brown's past, but Penny shouldn't have to get Rudd involved every time he needs to make a decision that Bowen doesn't like. The longer he's here, the more we hear of how difficult Tom can be when he doesn't get his way. No way this should've ever gotten out of Bowen's office. Let the coach do his job and hire who he wants, Penny is ultimately responsible for his assistant's actions. Do you think anyone would blink an eye if Cal wanted to hire Brown at Kentucky?

Quote:Penny is ultimately responsible for his assistant's actions.

Easily the most insane statement in this entire debate.

What is insane about it? When a coach gets hit with failure to maintain institutional control, what does that mean?

99% of the time the coach leaves and there are no repercussions. 1% of the time they get a show cause for a year or two. It means that the school's president, AD, students and the school as a whole takes a massive hit that is almost impossible to reverse.

Saying that Penny bears the ultimate responsibility is completely insane.

How about we dial it back a little there Meryl. Completely insane?

There is nothing that goes on inside a division 1 basketball program that a head coach doesn't know about. He/She makes every decision when it comes to players to recruit, offer scholarships, and coaches to hire right down to the color of the carpet in the practice facility. Now, I'll agree, there are instances where a coach knows an investigation is looming and jumps ship a'la Calipari in 2009, but if the infractions are severe enough, no one is untouchable from a show cause. If Brown were hired, walked in and handed $10,000 to Tyler Harris to sign with Memphis, even if Penny had other coaching offers, he'd still be hit with NCAA violations no matter where he is coaching.

I completely agree that Larry Brown has one of the best coaching minds of all time at both the college and pro level. No argument there.

But at the college level, he has had three head coaching jobs and all three ended with NCAA violations.

There are tons of good coaches who can help Penny with X's and O's. No need to take a risk with Brown when so many others are available without the stigma of NCAA violations.

Take out the negativity from parts of the fanbase, but if Calipari for some strange reason had wanted to come back to Memphis after they fired Tubby would Tom Bowen be against the idea? I’ll bet you no.

There lies in the problem right now

I’ve heard some of the dumbest things today I’ve ever read in ANY ménage board. 3-4 weeks ago, Penny was the second coming-could do no wrong and Admin better not screw it up and let him get away. Penny talked THEN about Larry Brown as an assistant. Well, Penny took the the job and has been working his ass off and wants to finish his staff.

He can’t because we have a AD who thinks he hires assistant basketball coaches and, evidently a President who is backing him. If I were Penny, I would tell the both of them: unless the NCAA bars Brown from coaching, I want him. If you can’t agree to this, find yourself another head basketball coach. Revenues would plummet and the program would be irreverent again.

like the Keelon Lawson promise all over again. Bowen sabotaging the basketball program. He promised Lawson that he would be a bench coach and couldn’t make good on his promise as Tubby went over his head to hire his egg head son. If Penny doesn’t have the same rights and power as Tubby, he should tell them to go to hell and go play golf.

So how long until a money guy smacks Bowen back down into his place?

Lets see Bowen, you don't allow the hire and you piss off your new and very popular coach. You piss off your fan base. And you add to the basketball mistakes in the recent past with the Pastner roll over contract and the genius hire of Tubby Smith. Oh, and telling Lawson he would stay on as an assistant and pissing him off. Please Tom, you've done enough. At least don't f this up also.

(04-11-2018 02:03 PM)cbhstiger Wrote:  

Doc Holliday also said this 3 weeks ago:

Doc Holliday @The_DocHolliday Mar 20

Confirmed: Larry Brown was never an option to join Penny’s staff.


Larry Brown either will or will not to join Penny's staff. Either way, Doc Holliday doesn't know what he's talking about.

(04-11-2018 12:44 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  They said Larry’s lawyer and SMU administration has reached out to Bowen about Larry and Tom hasn’t reached back to them. What?

Heard Parrish, John Martin, and Jason Smith talking about that. Bowen is handling this in the dumbest way it can be handled. First letting it drag out. Now its becomes public knowledge. Now, with no firm decision in place (Or I'll let him be a consultant) he isn't taking calls that can provide info on the subject that he will, soon or later, have to render a decision on. Very poorly handled imo.