(04-25-2018 09:49 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  But the basketball court IS their classroom. They are learning to be better basketball players.

I am merely being a devil's advocate here, but in basic theory they are learning things to apply to their chosen profession.... about 1/3 of college course work is a joke - it includes classes that mean absolutely zero to what you want to do when you grow up. I am in finance/banking, and I am pretty sure I have never referenced anything from my European Literature class that was A REQUIRED class for me to take in order earn my finance degree in college.

I am not arguing the theory of getting a well rounded education here (even though I kinda am), but if you gave just about any kid the option of going to school to learn about only the things that they needed to learn to pursue their chosen career path, they would jump on it and college for everyone would be 2 years instead of 4; and a good portion of the classes that are currently offered would no longer be in that school - the would not disappear, but they would centralize in specific schools.

These basketball players are skipping the bull**** so to speak, and getting a job without the actual completion of a degree from the school - when you you cut it down to basics, that is the only real difference.

If you could go to college for 1 year (for free), then "graduate" and make $30 or $40 million dollars over the following 10 years (playing a fuking game!!!) versus busting your ass in school for 4 years to average $100K per year over a 30 year career working 9 to 5 for 50 weeks a year (and 10 years of loan payments) which option are you choosing?

Devil's Advocate to your Devil's Advocate - even college graduates need to complete core requirements to fulfill their degree; that means taking classes that are not specific to their major. What you are suggesting, and advocating for, is that student-athletes should be exempt from this requirement - which only fuels the student/athlete debate even more.

You'll be hard pressed to find a university mission statement that mentions or promotes athletics. A university's goal is academics, first and foremost. Now, all universities need money and funding to develop and grow their academics - and sometimes, for some schools, athletics play a big role in that. However, any university that would openly declare that student-athletes do not need to take any classes, and instead major in "basketball" would be a death sentence, in an academic sense, for that institution.

(04-25-2018 09:49 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(04-24-2018 03:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-24-2018 02:44 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  Calapari has said it in the past without saying it.......

- Kids go to college - Why? To learn the skills they need to get a job.
- What is that process? Get a rounded background with some useless classes, then more pointed study as you advance in your major of choice.
- What happens when you are done? You graduate, get a job (hopefully) that you have learned the basic skills to do and you start your adult life

College basketball is nothing more than a "Major" for some of these kids. Go to school, learn your craft, then leave and get a job in your field.

Seriously - what is the difference between going to school to become an NBA (or other overseas pro player), versus going to school to learn engineering, then getting a job as an engineer - other than doing 4 years versus less than that?

Because to get that "major" in athletics you are required to meet certain academic criteria to get in and then you are required to successfully complete a number of hours of credit the Fall semester to be eligible for the Spring semester.

Why not provide the player with no interest in attending ANY classes and no interest in obtaining a college education an alternative.

I know two guys who dropped out of college who were majoring in computer science. One left after his sophomore year and a year later had sold his "side gig" of developing iPhone apps to a South Korean company for seven figures. He drove a brand new Dodge Challenger his last semester that he paid for with cash and when he moved to Los Angeles to work, he paid for his condo in cash, all before he sold his side business.

The other left after his junior year and co-founded an inventory software company that has some huge clients, companies even I have heard of.

The difference between those two young men and a one-and-done basketball player is that they took classes that taught them things that they needed to learn. The one-and-done isn't there for what the classroom has to offer and is only there for lack of an alternate place to learn those skills.

But the basketball court IS their classroom. They are learning to be better basketball players.

I am merely being a devil's advocate here, but in basic theory they are learning things to apply to their chosen profession.... about 1/3 of college course work is a joke - it includes classes that mean absolutely zero to what you want to do when you grow up. I am in finance/banking, and I am pretty sure I have never referenced anything from my European Literature class that was A REQUIRED class for me to take in order earn my finance degree in college.

I am not arguing the theory of getting a well rounded education here (even though I kinda am), but if you gave just about any kid the option of going to school to learn about only the things that they needed to learn to pursue their chosen career path, they would jump on it and college for everyone would be 2 years instead of 4; and a good portion of the classes that are currently offered would no longer be in that school - the would not disappear, but they would centralize in specific schools.

These basketball players are skipping the bull**** so to speak, and getting a job without the actual completion of a degree from the school - when you you cut it down to basics, that is the only real difference.



If you could go to college for 1 year (for free), then "graduate" and make $30 or $40 million dollars over the following 10 years (playing a fuking game!!!) versus busting your ass in school for 4 years to average $100K per year over a 30 year career working 9 to 5 for 50 weeks a year (and 10 years of loan payments) which option are you choosing?

I get your point, though I think most people actually are well served by gaining exposure to the classic liberal arts education. I mean that was the only form of education we had other than theology when the Enlightenment period took off and that was the education that the founders who had more than a basic education had.

That's neither here nor there.

A sham run through some courses and playing 30ish games, many against grossly inferior competition is a less effective basketball education than playing say 50 games in the G League. That is part of my problem with one and done. It is funneling players who do not NEED a college degree into an inferior training ground.

The real hypocrisy here is the NBA actually.

First they come up with the 19 and 1 year out of HS rule - DUMB
Then they half-assed the G league - also DUMB
They have a free farm system so to speak with college so they exploited it.

If the NBA really wanted to fix this they could by simply affiliating a G League team with each NBA team and having a true farm system like Baseball and Hockey. Draft them out of High School and if they are not ready for the big club, let them play in the minors. Unfortunately College Basketball will be pillaged of all the real talent and the game will be better and worse for it, but at least the charade will be over. Too many of those tweeners will get killed though. They will not go to school, get used up in 2 or 3 years once they do not pan out, then have to pay for college on their own and not be eligible to play if they choose to go that route.

It is a no win situation without a drastic overhaul to the whole system - the kids will get royally phucked in any scenario and the rich will always get richer.

(04-25-2018 03:00 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  The real hypocrisy here is the NBA actually.

First they come up with the 19 and 1 year out of HS rule - DUMB
Then they half-assed the G league - also DUMB
They have a free farm system so to speak with college so they exploited it.

If the NBA really wanted to fix this they could by simply affiliating a G League team with each NBA team and having a true farm system like Baseball and Hockey. Draft them out of High School and if they are not ready for the big club, let them play in the minors. Unfortunately College Basketball will be pillaged of all the real talent and the game will be better and worse for it, but at least the charade will be over. Too many of those tweeners will get killed though. They will not go to school, get used up in 2 or 3 years once they do not pan out, then have to pay for college on their own and not be eligible to play if they choose to go that route.

It is a no win situation without a drastic overhaul to the whole system - the kids will get royally phucked in any scenario and the rich will always get richer.

Good points, but the NBA has been pushing the D-League/Now G-League to be a full Minor League. There are only 4 NBA teams that don't have an exclusive G-League affiliate and next year 2 of them will. The last 2 teams have been scouting arenas to host in the next 2 years. They also created the new two-way contract and extra roster spots to use on such players. The two-way contract allows for young players to be assigned to your G-League team without leaving you bench short on players or having to waive them and risk loosing them. Last I heard the NBA commissioner wants to add 3 more Tw-way roster spots to every team so that you can have 5 young players who get NBA coaching and also G-league playing time to grow.

(04-25-2018 03:00 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  They will not go to school, get used up in 2 or 3 years once they do not pan out, then have to pay for college on their own and not be eligible to play if they choose to go that route.

The NBA commissioner has proposed having NBA teams pay for college for players who join the G-League out of high school and don't make it to the NBA, if HS-to-G-League becomes a common path. Many MLB teams pay the college expenses for top prospects who sign out of high school if they end their pro baseball career before making it to the majors.

(04-25-2018 05:28 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-25-2018 03:00 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  They will not go to school, get used up in 2 or 3 years once they do not pan out, then have to pay for college on their own and not be eligible to play if they choose to go that route.

The NBA commissioner has proposed having NBA teams pay for college for players who join the G-League out of high school and don't make it to the NBA, if HS-to-G-League becomes a common path. Many MLB teams pay the college expenses for top prospects who sign out of high school if they end their pro baseball career before making it to the majors.

I believe that is now a stock contract provision for anyone signed out of high school. If I remember correctly they at first offered it to all players rounds 1-4 and expanded it purportedly because they ended up paying out much less than they expected.

So our wonder boy didn't do so well playing against seasoned college players...yet these 18 year olds think they should go pro out of high school.

https://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketbal...box_sports

(08-14-2018 07:28 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  So our wonder boy didn't do so well playing against seasoned college players...yet these 18 year olds think they should go pro out of high school.

If they can secure an NBA contract, they should.

(08-14-2018 07:34 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(08-14-2018 07:28 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  So our wonder boy didn't do so well playing against seasoned college players...yet these 18 year olds think they should go pro out of high school.

If they can secure an NBA contract, they should.

And you and I both know that is about 5 players a decade that can come in right away from H.S. and play any meaningful minutes.

So, let the five who can do that.

Don’t know if I would play in a league that won’t pay me what I’m worth. This G League sounds like an excellent opportunity to weed out the Anthony Bennetts and Darko Milicics before they waste a first round pick on them. I can see NBA teams telling these one year wonders if you want to be a first round draft pick you have to spend a season in the G League. If a kid can’t get it done there he isn’t worth a first round pay check.
CJ

(08-14-2018 08:52 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-14-2018 07:34 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(08-14-2018 07:28 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  So our wonder boy didn't do so well playing against seasoned college players...yet these 18 year olds think they should go pro out of high school.

If they can secure an NBA contract, they should.

And you and I both know that is about 5 players a decade that can come in right away from H.S. and play any meaningful minutes.

Not really relevant. If an NBA team is willing to invest a development year or two in a guy for the eventual payoff, then by all means go get that NBA money. Plenty of guys would happily spend a year or two on assignment to the G-league while making the NBA minimum.

(08-15-2018 10:56 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

(08-14-2018 08:52 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-14-2018 07:34 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(08-14-2018 07:28 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  So our wonder boy didn't do so well playing against seasoned college players...yet these 18 year olds think they should go pro out of high school.

If they can secure an NBA contract, they should.

And you and I both know that is about 5 players a decade that can come in right away from H.S. and play any meaningful minutes.

Not really relevant. If an NBA team is willing to invest a development year or two in a guy for the eventual payoff, then by all means go get that NBA money. Plenty of guys would happily spend a year or two on assignment to the G-league while making the NBA minimum.

And reason why the NBA is ruining college BB. They should be able to come out after HS or stay a minimum of 2-3 years in college. It works for Football and baseball.

(08-15-2018 11:26 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-15-2018 10:56 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

(08-14-2018 08:52 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-14-2018 07:34 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(08-14-2018 07:28 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  So our wonder boy didn't do so well playing against seasoned college players...yet these 18 year olds think they should go pro out of high school.

If they can secure an NBA contract, they should.

And you and I both know that is about 5 players a decade that can come in right away from H.S. and play any meaningful minutes.

Not really relevant. If an NBA team is willing to invest a development year or two in a guy for the eventual payoff, then by all means go get that NBA money. Plenty of guys would happily spend a year or two on assignment to the G-league while making the NBA minimum.

And reason why the NBA is ruining college BB. They should be able to come out after HS or stay a minimum of 2-3 years in college. It works for Football and baseball.

NBA is only responsible for itself. It has no obligation to bail the NCAA out of the problems inherent with their unpaid labor scheme and should really only change its policies if it feels it will benefit directly. My guess is that if the age limit is lowered back to high school you won't see any sort of minimum stay in college because they'll want to pull all the ready-made stars out of NCAA ball immediately before they get hurt.

(08-15-2018 12:03 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(08-15-2018 11:26 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-15-2018 10:56 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

(08-14-2018 08:52 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-14-2018 07:34 PM)Bogg Wrote:  If they can secure an NBA contract, they should.

And you and I both know that is about 5 players a decade that can come in right away from H.S. and play any meaningful minutes.

Not really relevant. If an NBA team is willing to invest a development year or two in a guy for the eventual payoff, then by all means go get that NBA money. Plenty of guys would happily spend a year or two on assignment to the G-league while making the NBA minimum.

And reason why the NBA is ruining college BB. They should be able to come out after HS or stay a minimum of 2-3 years in college. It works for Football and baseball.

NBA is only responsible for itself. It has no obligation to bail the NCAA out of the problems inherent with their unpaid labor scheme and should really only change its policies if it feels it will benefit directly. My guess is that if the age limit is lowered back to high school you won't see any sort of minimum stay in college because they'll want to pull all the ready-made stars out of NCAA ball immediately before they get hurt.

Maybe so...(only look out for themselves) but the NCAA's are the defacto minor league and both being healthy raises the boat for all.

As far as unpaid labor comment...well scholarships, food, clothing and board, and national exposure to build their name recognition is more than "unpaid labor".

(08-15-2018 12:12 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Maybe so...(only look out for themselves) but the NCAA's are the defacto minor league and both being healthy raises the boat for all.

Not sure that's the case - the NCAA doubles as one of the NBA's main competitors for much of the season. So long as the player pipeline is alive, I doubt the NBA actually wants the NCAA to be as entertaining as possible.

(08-15-2018 12:12 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  As far as unpaid labor comment...well scholarships, food, clothing and board, and national exposure to build their name recognition is more than "unpaid labor".

So long as the NCAA requires that players be enrolled as students to be eligible to play the whole "But Scholarships!!!" argument rings hollow. Not actively charging the players five figures a year for the privilege of generating eight to nine figures a year for the university is the very scraping-the-bottom-of-the-barrel minimum thing the schools could do, and at the level of competition we're discussing is more about a business stabilizing its own product rather than any sort of fair-market compensation or sense of altruism.

Can you imagine the TV networks' reactions if every year the NCAA had players the stature of Miles Bridges and Trey Young dropping out for the Spring semester because their families couldn't scrape together tuition and board? Avoiding that's what we're supposed to laud the NCAA for?

(08-15-2018 12:12 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-15-2018 12:03 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(08-15-2018 11:26 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-15-2018 10:56 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

(08-14-2018 08:52 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  And you and I both know that is about 5 players a decade that can come in right away from H.S. and play any meaningful minutes.

Not really relevant. If an NBA team is willing to invest a development year or two in a guy for the eventual payoff, then by all means go get that NBA money. Plenty of guys would happily spend a year or two on assignment to the G-league while making the NBA minimum.

And reason why the NBA is ruining college BB. They should be able to come out after HS or stay a minimum of 2-3 years in college. It works for Football and baseball.

NBA is only responsible for itself. It has no obligation to bail the NCAA out of the problems inherent with their unpaid labor scheme and should really only change its policies if it feels it will benefit directly. My guess is that if the age limit is lowered back to high school you won't see any sort of minimum stay in college because they'll want to pull all the ready-made stars out of NCAA ball immediately before they get hurt.

Maybe so...(only look out for themselves) but the NCAA's are the defacto minor league and both being healthy raises the boat for all.

As far as unpaid labor comment...well scholarships, food, clothing and board, and national exposure to build their name recognition is more than "unpaid labor".

i do think the players should be compensated for their jersey sales. Ik it doesn't have their name, but, the school is still profiting of their name alone. the other stuff is up for debate. But the student athletes should be paid in regards to their jersey sales.