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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: This year
(03-19-2018 01:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 01:20 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  How conferences have won an NCAA Championship over the past five years? If Villanova wins again this year, would it still be a disappointing year?

The folks that truly complain about the Big East again fans from lower conferences, specifically one that we broke away from. Those complaints have no merit.

No it wouldn't be. But then again, Nova has to do it- and do it with about as hard of a run as possible. Quite possibly West Virginia, Purdue, Duke, and Kentucky.

And you didn't answer the question. Don't you think there would be a difference in perception if the Big East was 12-5 in rd 2 of the NCAA tourney last 5 years instead of being 5-12?

I don't. Every conference has a team that gets an early exit every year (this year especially). The ACC's reputation is not brought down by Virginia's loss to UMBC. The B1G's is not impacted by Michigan State losing to Syracuse. The PAC suddenly does not get devalued because it went 0-3. March Madness is random and unexpected; it's why it is the greatest sporting event in the world. I don't think the casual fan can recite each team that makes a Sweet 16; but they certainly remember the Final Fours and National Champions.

The other factor affecting the Big East is the number of members (10). The ACC, B1G, PAC and SEC all have more teams to potentially make the tournament, and - additionally - have its top members beat up its bottom feeders for easier wins. The Big East, only have ten members, and having just one program that has been consistently down the past five years (even longer) is DePaul. If/when the Big East decides to expand, it will most likely add to the middle of the conference (not the top and certainly not to the bottom). It would, in theory, add to the number of higher bids the league could get from the top, and more total teams into the tournament.
03-19-2018 02:18 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: This year
(03-19-2018 02:18 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 01:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 01:20 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  How conferences have won an NCAA Championship over the past five years? If Villanova wins again this year, would it still be a disappointing year?

The folks that truly complain about the Big East again fans from lower conferences, specifically one that we broke away from. Those complaints have no merit.

No it wouldn't be. But then again, Nova has to do it- and do it with about as hard of a run as possible. Quite possibly West Virginia, Purdue, Duke, and Kentucky.

And you didn't answer the question. Don't you think there would be a difference in perception if the Big East was 12-5 in rd 2 of the NCAA tourney last 5 years instead of being 5-12?

I don't. Every conference has a team that gets an early exit every year (this year especially). The ACC's reputation is not brought down by Virginia's loss to UMBC. The B1G's is not impacted by Michigan State losing to Syracuse. The PAC suddenly does not get devalued because it went 0-3. March Madness is random and unexpected; it's why it is the greatest sporting event in the world. I don't think the casual fan can recite each team that makes a Sweet 16; but they certainly remember the Final Fours and National Champions.

The other factor affecting the Big East is the number of members (10). The ACC, B1G, PAC and SEC all have more teams to potentially make the tournament, and - additionally - have its top members beat up its bottom feeders for easier wins. The Big East, only have ten members, and having just one program that has been consistently down the past five years (even longer) is DePaul. If/when the Big East decides to expand, it will most likely add to the middle of the conference (not the top and certainly not to the bottom). It would, in theory, add to the number of higher bids the league could get from the top, and more total teams into the tournament.

Fans remember the flameouts just as much. What was Nova known for before they won the championship 2 years ago? That's right the Piccolo girl.

As far as the having more members so they get easier wins- well, that's not exactly the other 4 conferences fault now, is it? If Big East has a problem with that, they need to expand. I really think a major problem the Big East has is there is a segment of folks who are just so enamored with the round robin, to the point of it costing the conference. Part of the reason why the league is 5-12 in rd 2 is that several of those games are 8/9 vs 1 or 7/10 vs 2. You're going to with the round robin have a ton of teams in the 9-9 or 10-8 record world- and that's just asking to be in the 7-10 pit of misery.

The ACC last year was brutal, but they're given a pass because they have done so well in the other tournaments- oh and they did win it all last year. ACC has 4 final 4's last 4 years, SEC 4, Big Ten with 3. Big East is with Big 12, Pac 12, WCC, and AAC with 1 each.

I think the Big 12 and Big East both have a tourney perception problem. Both are viewed as good regular season conferences but then shrink when you get to the postseason. Big 12 might be erasing some of that this year.
03-19-2018 02:56 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: This year
(03-19-2018 02:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 02:18 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 01:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 01:20 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  How conferences have won an NCAA Championship over the past five years? If Villanova wins again this year, would it still be a disappointing year?

The folks that truly complain about the Big East again fans from lower conferences, specifically one that we broke away from. Those complaints have no merit.

No it wouldn't be. But then again, Nova has to do it- and do it with about as hard of a run as possible. Quite possibly West Virginia, Purdue, Duke, and Kentucky.

And you didn't answer the question. Don't you think there would be a difference in perception if the Big East was 12-5 in rd 2 of the NCAA tourney last 5 years instead of being 5-12?

I don't. Every conference has a team that gets an early exit every year (this year especially). The ACC's reputation is not brought down by Virginia's loss to UMBC. The B1G's is not impacted by Michigan State losing to Syracuse. The PAC suddenly does not get devalued because it went 0-3. March Madness is random and unexpected; it's why it is the greatest sporting event in the world. I don't think the casual fan can recite each team that makes a Sweet 16; but they certainly remember the Final Fours and National Champions.

The other factor affecting the Big East is the number of members (10). The ACC, B1G, PAC and SEC all have more teams to potentially make the tournament, and - additionally - have its top members beat up its bottom feeders for easier wins. The Big East, only have ten members, and having just one program that has been consistently down the past five years (even longer) is DePaul. If/when the Big East decides to expand, it will most likely add to the middle of the conference (not the top and certainly not to the bottom). It would, in theory, add to the number of higher bids the league could get from the top, and more total teams into the tournament.

Fans remember the flameouts just as much. What was Nova known for before they won the championship 2 years ago? That's right the Piccolo girl.

As far as the having more members so they get easier wins- well, that's not exactly the other 4 conferences fault now, is it? If Big East has a problem with that, they need to expand. I really think a major problem the Big East has is there is a segment of folks who are just so enamored with the round robin, to the point of it costing the conference. Part of the reason why the league is 5-12 in rd 2 is that several of those games are 8/9 vs 1 or 7/10 vs 2. You're going to with the round robin have a ton of teams in the 9-9 or 10-8 record world- and that's just asking to be in the 7-10 pit of misery.

The ACC last year was brutal, but they're given a pass because they have done so well in the other tournaments- oh and they did win it all last year. ACC has 4 final 4's last 4 years, SEC 4, Big Ten with 3. Big East is with Big 12, Pac 12, WCC, and AAC with 1 each.

I think the Big 12 and Big East both have a tourney perception problem. Both are viewed as good regular season conferences but then shrink when you get to the postseason. Big 12 might be erasing some of that this year.

What's the Piccolo girl? I'm unfamiliar.

I don't blame other conferences for the Big East not getting more teams deep. It is just a reality of how the landscape has changed over the past decade. I also think the round-robin still has a tremendous amount of present value, but when it comes time to negotiate the next TV deal, it should be treated as a luxury, not a necessity. It's biggest advantage was to speed-up the acclimation of Butler, Creighton and Xavier to the league, and that has been accomplished. Not right now, but definitely in a few years, the round robin will have outlived its usefulness. I still think there still some remaining time to squeeze out its inherent value.

The Big 12 has not had a national champion in over ten years. The PAC has not won one in over twenty years. The Big East, both in past and current form, have more than both combined. I don't see a perception problem there.
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2018 03:41 PM by GoldenWarrior11.)
03-19-2018 03:40 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: This year
(03-19-2018 03:40 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 02:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 02:18 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 01:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 01:20 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  How conferences have won an NCAA Championship over the past five years? If Villanova wins again this year, would it still be a disappointing year?

The folks that truly complain about the Big East again fans from lower conferences, specifically one that we broke away from. Those complaints have no merit.

No it wouldn't be. But then again, Nova has to do it- and do it with about as hard of a run as possible. Quite possibly West Virginia, Purdue, Duke, and Kentucky.

And you didn't answer the question. Don't you think there would be a difference in perception if the Big East was 12-5 in rd 2 of the NCAA tourney last 5 years instead of being 5-12?

I don't. Every conference has a team that gets an early exit every year (this year especially). The ACC's reputation is not brought down by Virginia's loss to UMBC. The B1G's is not impacted by Michigan State losing to Syracuse. The PAC suddenly does not get devalued because it went 0-3. March Madness is random and unexpected; it's why it is the greatest sporting event in the world. I don't think the casual fan can recite each team that makes a Sweet 16; but they certainly remember the Final Fours and National Champions.

The other factor affecting the Big East is the number of members (10). The ACC, B1G, PAC and SEC all have more teams to potentially make the tournament, and - additionally - have its top members beat up its bottom feeders for easier wins. The Big East, only have ten members, and having just one program that has been consistently down the past five years (even longer) is DePaul. If/when the Big East decides to expand, it will most likely add to the middle of the conference (not the top and certainly not to the bottom). It would, in theory, add to the number of higher bids the league could get from the top, and more total teams into the tournament.

Fans remember the flameouts just as much. What was Nova known for before they won the championship 2 years ago? That's right the Piccolo girl.

As far as the having more members so they get easier wins- well, that's not exactly the other 4 conferences fault now, is it? If Big East has a problem with that, they need to expand. I really think a major problem the Big East has is there is a segment of folks who are just so enamored with the round robin, to the point of it costing the conference. Part of the reason why the league is 5-12 in rd 2 is that several of those games are 8/9 vs 1 or 7/10 vs 2. You're going to with the round robin have a ton of teams in the 9-9 or 10-8 record world- and that's just asking to be in the 7-10 pit of misery.

The ACC last year was brutal, but they're given a pass because they have done so well in the other tournaments- oh and they did win it all last year. ACC has 4 final 4's last 4 years, SEC 4, Big Ten with 3. Big East is with Big 12, Pac 12, WCC, and AAC with 1 each.

I think the Big 12 and Big East both have a tourney perception problem. Both are viewed as good regular season conferences but then shrink when you get to the postseason. Big 12 might be erasing some of that this year.

What's the Piccolo girl? I'm unfamiliar.

I don't blame other conferences for the Big East not getting more teams deep. It is just a reality of how the landscape has changed over the past decade. I also think the round-robin still has a tremendous amount of present value, but when it comes time to negotiate the next TV deal, it should be treated as a luxury, not a necessity. It's biggest advantage was to speed-up the acclimation of Butler, Creighton and Xavier to the league, and that has been accomplished. Not right now, but definitely in a few years, the round robin will have outlived its usefulness. I still think there still some remaining time to squeeze out its inherent value.

The Big 12 has not had a national champion in over ten years. The PAC has not won one in over twenty years. The Big East, both in past and current form, have more than both combined. I don't see a perception problem there.
The Piccolo girl was the girl from Nova who was playing the fight song at the end of the NC State game in 2015 who was crying while she was playing. She actually played on the tonight show after the game....

National champions aren't the only measures of things. I just love how Big east fans just want to bring up the more titles than others acting like that's the magic elixir to everything. It's not. I mean, the AAC has more titles than the Big 12 or Pac 12 in same period, yet I don't hear you going to the wall for them.

If Butler, Creighton, and Xavier aren't acclimated now, then when in the hell will they EVER be? That's just stupid quite frankly to act like they need more time. That's we need to keep it as long as possible before we are forced to expand... The round robin is absolutely 100% killing the conference. Yeah getting 6 or 7 teams in is great, but when the average seed is like this year 6.33 compared to the ACC at 5.25- it makes a difference. 6.33 with 2 number 1 seeds is pretty darn hard to do.
03-19-2018 04:13 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: This year
(03-19-2018 04:13 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 03:40 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 02:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 02:18 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 01:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  No it wouldn't be. But then again, Nova has to do it- and do it with about as hard of a run as possible. Quite possibly West Virginia, Purdue, Duke, and Kentucky.

And you didn't answer the question. Don't you think there would be a difference in perception if the Big East was 12-5 in rd 2 of the NCAA tourney last 5 years instead of being 5-12?

I don't. Every conference has a team that gets an early exit every year (this year especially). The ACC's reputation is not brought down by Virginia's loss to UMBC. The B1G's is not impacted by Michigan State losing to Syracuse. The PAC suddenly does not get devalued because it went 0-3. March Madness is random and unexpected; it's why it is the greatest sporting event in the world. I don't think the casual fan can recite each team that makes a Sweet 16; but they certainly remember the Final Fours and National Champions.

The other factor affecting the Big East is the number of members (10). The ACC, B1G, PAC and SEC all have more teams to potentially make the tournament, and - additionally - have its top members beat up its bottom feeders for easier wins. The Big East, only have ten members, and having just one program that has been consistently down the past five years (even longer) is DePaul. If/when the Big East decides to expand, it will most likely add to the middle of the conference (not the top and certainly not to the bottom). It would, in theory, add to the number of higher bids the league could get from the top, and more total teams into the tournament.

Fans remember the flameouts just as much. What was Nova known for before they won the championship 2 years ago? That's right the Piccolo girl.

As far as the having more members so they get easier wins- well, that's not exactly the other 4 conferences fault now, is it? If Big East has a problem with that, they need to expand. I really think a major problem the Big East has is there is a segment of folks who are just so enamored with the round robin, to the point of it costing the conference. Part of the reason why the league is 5-12 in rd 2 is that several of those games are 8/9 vs 1 or 7/10 vs 2. You're going to with the round robin have a ton of teams in the 9-9 or 10-8 record world- and that's just asking to be in the 7-10 pit of misery.

The ACC last year was brutal, but they're given a pass because they have done so well in the other tournaments- oh and they did win it all last year. ACC has 4 final 4's last 4 years, SEC 4, Big Ten with 3. Big East is with Big 12, Pac 12, WCC, and AAC with 1 each.

I think the Big 12 and Big East both have a tourney perception problem. Both are viewed as good regular season conferences but then shrink when you get to the postseason. Big 12 might be erasing some of that this year.

What's the Piccolo girl? I'm unfamiliar.

I don't blame other conferences for the Big East not getting more teams deep. It is just a reality of how the landscape has changed over the past decade. I also think the round-robin still has a tremendous amount of present value, but when it comes time to negotiate the next TV deal, it should be treated as a luxury, not a necessity. It's biggest advantage was to speed-up the acclimation of Butler, Creighton and Xavier to the league, and that has been accomplished. Not right now, but definitely in a few years, the round robin will have outlived its usefulness. I still think there still some remaining time to squeeze out its inherent value.

The Big 12 has not had a national champion in over ten years. The PAC has not won one in over twenty years. The Big East, both in past and current form, have more than both combined. I don't see a perception problem there.
The Piccolo girl was the girl from Nova who was playing the fight song at the end of the NC State game in 2015 who was crying while she was playing. She actually played on the tonight show after the game....

National champions aren't the only measures of things. I just love how Big east fans just want to bring up the more titles than others acting like that's the magic elixir to everything. It's not. I mean, the AAC has more titles than the Big 12 or Pac 12 in same period, yet I don't hear you going to the wall for them.

If Butler, Creighton, and Xavier aren't acclimated now, then when in the hell will they EVER be? That's just stupid quite frankly to act like they need more time. That's we need to keep it as long as possible before we are forced to expand... The round robin is absolutely 100% killing the conference. Yeah getting 6 or 7 teams in is great, but when the average seed is like this year 6.33 compared to the ACC at 5.25- it makes a difference. 6.33 with 2 number 1 seeds is pretty darn hard to do.

There's a shot of at least one crying fan from every single losing team in the tournament nowadays. Hard to keep them all straight.

National Championships aren't the only indicators of a strength of conference, absolutely. I used the PAC and Big 12 results as indicators as such. On-court success, attendance, ratings, TV deals and program prestige all add to that. I never brought up or slammed the AAC. I'm not sure why you did. There's a reason the Big East (and other power basketball conferences) continue to get many bids annually into the tournament. If their perception was bad, like other conferences, my guess would be that they wouldn't.

With regards to your comments on the round-robin, I stated that the original intention of it has already been met. It is by no means killing the conference. Attendance is high. The competition is high. Every game in conference provides excitement and entertainment. Will there be a point where there is more value in getting away from it via expansion? Most likely. But today, it's not providing a negative value to the league.

I believe you are using one game (Xavier's loss) to justify preconceived thoughts you have had, and repeatedly articulated, with regards to the direction of the Big East. That's totally fine, but be prepared to hear the continued counter-points.

04-cheers
03-19-2018 04:28 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: This year
I'd say making it where most every team who makes the tourney is in the 7-10 pit of misery is a pretty big negative. The Round Robin is great for the regular season. It's not for the postseason. That's the thing, you want to focus everything on the regular season. That's fine, but for a lot of folks, it's a March season. You think March is largely meaningless for conference perception. I think it's extremely big, and showed by the ratings the Big East always starts out with, and the ratings thru the season. The Big East right now doesn't get much benefit of the doubt from voters at all.
03-19-2018 04:43 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: This year
I think one thing that someone mentioned is how so many of the games slow points/losses were due to foul trouble.... did some looking-
Xavier in conference play was called for 293 fouls and their opponents in the 18 games had 249 free throws. So that's an average of 16.28 fouls per game, with 13.83 ft per game for the opponent.

In the 2 tourney games-
Texas Southern 22 fouls, 27 TS free throws
Florida St 22 fouls, 22 FSU free throws
so 22 fouls per game with 24.5 ft per game. An increase of 5.72 fouls(35.1%) and 10.67 ft(77.2%) per game. That's a gigantic difference.

Villanova had 297 regular season fouls in conference play with opponents getting 322 free throws. So average of 16.5 fouls and 17.89 oppoent free throws per game.

in 2 tourney games-
Radford 16 fouls, 16 Rad free throws
Alabama 21 fouls, 23 Ala free throws
so 18.5 fouls per game and 19.5 opponent free throws per game. An increase of 2 fouls per game(12.1%) and 1.61 ft(9%).

Seton Hall-
conference- 322 fouls 329 opp ft (17.89 fouls, 18.27 opp ft per game)
NC State- 23 fouls 27 opp ft
Kansas- 24 fouls 26 opp ft
so 23.5 fouls per game and 26.5 opp ft per game. Increase of 5.61 fouls(31.4%) and 8.23 ft(45%).

those are especially for Xavier and Butler just huge differences.

I think the league needs to look into calling the game like this in the regular season. It's doing these teams absolutely no favors not preparing them for March. The NCAA isn't going to be changing the way the games are called.
03-19-2018 08:52 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: This year
(03-19-2018 04:43 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I'd say making it where most every team who makes the tourney is in the 7-10 pit of misery is a pretty big negative. The Round Robin is great for the regular season. It's not for the postseason. That's the thing, you want to focus everything on the regular season. That's fine, but for a lot of folks, it's a March season. You think March is largely meaningless for conference perception. I think it's extremely big, and showed by the ratings the Big East always starts out with, and the ratings thru the season. The Big East right now doesn't get much benefit of the doubt from voters at all.

What voters do you speak of?
03-19-2018 09:40 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: This year
(03-19-2018 08:52 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I think one thing that someone mentioned is how so many of the games slow points/losses were due to foul trouble.... did some looking-
Xavier in conference play was called for 293 fouls and their opponents in the 18 games had 249 free throws. So that's an average of 16.28 fouls per game, with 13.83 ft per game for the opponent.

In the 2 tourney games-
Texas Southern 22 fouls, 27 TS free throws
Florida St 22 fouls, 22 FSU free throws
so 22 fouls per game with 24.5 ft per game. An increase of 5.72 fouls(35.1%) and 10.67 ft(77.2%) per game. That's a gigantic difference.

Villanova had 297 regular season fouls in conference play with opponents getting 322 free throws. So average of 16.5 fouls and 17.89 oppoent free throws per game.

in 2 tourney games-
Radford 16 fouls, 16 Rad free throws
Alabama 21 fouls, 23 Ala free throws
so 18.5 fouls per game and 19.5 opponent free throws per game. An increase of 2 fouls per game(12.1%) and 1.61 ft(9%).

Seton Hall-
conference- 322 fouls 329 opp ft (17.89 fouls, 18.27 opp ft per game)
NC State- 23 fouls 27 opp ft
Kansas- 24 fouls 26 opp ft
so 23.5 fouls per game and 26.5 opp ft per game. Increase of 5.61 fouls(31.4%) and 8.23 ft(45%).

those are especially for Xavier and Butler just huge differences.

I think the league needs to look into calling the game like this in the regular season. It's doing these teams absolutely no favors not preparing them for March. The NCAA isn't going to be changing the way the games are called.

Butler, Seton Hall, Creighton, Providence and Xavier all had opportunities to win their respective games. There is no singular reason as to why each lost their game. As you have repeatedly argued for other conferences, while the league may have gone 1-3 in the 2nd Round, they could have easily gone 3-1 or even 4-0.

All you can ask for is an opportunity to play in the tournament. You get there, you have a shot. Seedings, in today's game, do not matter as strongly as years ago. The game is different. On any given night in the tournament, anyone can beat anyone.

The whole sky is falling argument against the Big East, IMO, doesn't hold much water.
03-19-2018 09:46 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: This year
(03-19-2018 09:46 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 08:52 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I think one thing that someone mentioned is how so many of the games slow points/losses were due to foul trouble.... did some looking-
Xavier in conference play was called for 293 fouls and their opponents in the 18 games had 249 free throws. So that's an average of 16.28 fouls per game, with 13.83 ft per game for the opponent.

In the 2 tourney games-
Texas Southern 22 fouls, 27 TS free throws
Florida St 22 fouls, 22 FSU free throws
so 22 fouls per game with 24.5 ft per game. An increase of 5.72 fouls(35.1%) and 10.67 ft(77.2%) per game. That's a gigantic difference.

Villanova had 297 regular season fouls in conference play with opponents getting 322 free throws. So average of 16.5 fouls and 17.89 oppoent free throws per game.

in 2 tourney games-
Radford 16 fouls, 16 Rad free throws
Alabama 21 fouls, 23 Ala free throws
so 18.5 fouls per game and 19.5 opponent free throws per game. An increase of 2 fouls per game(12.1%) and 1.61 ft(9%).

Seton Hall-
conference- 322 fouls 329 opp ft (17.89 fouls, 18.27 opp ft per game)
NC State- 23 fouls 27 opp ft
Kansas- 24 fouls 26 opp ft
so 23.5 fouls per game and 26.5 opp ft per game. Increase of 5.61 fouls(31.4%) and 8.23 ft(45%).

those are especially for Xavier and Butler just huge differences.

I think the league needs to look into calling the game like this in the regular season. It's doing these teams absolutely no favors not preparing them for March. The NCAA isn't going to be changing the way the games are called.

Butler, Seton Hall, Creighton, Providence and Xavier all had opportunities to win their respective games. There is no singular reason as to why each lost their game. As you have repeatedly argued for other conferences, while the league may have gone 1-3 in the 2nd Round, they could have easily gone 3-1 or even 4-0.

All you can ask for is an opportunity to play in the tournament. You get there, you have a shot. Seedings, in today's game, do not matter as strongly as years ago. The game is different. On any given night in the tournament, anyone can beat anyone.

The whole sky is falling argument against the Big East, IMO, doesn't hold much water.
Try telling Seton Hall that seedings don't matter after getting Kansas in Wichita. Seeds absolutely matter. Even this year, better seeded teams went 33-15 in 1st 2 rounds. Last year, that was 38-10 for first 2 rounds. I'd MUCH rather have 5 highly seeded teams over 2 high seeds and 4 teams in the 8-10 range like this year.

And your post has nothing to do with how the regular season games are called. Like it or not, but if Xavier is committing 35% more fouls and 77% more free throws in NCAA games, something needs to change. And it's not going to be how the NCAA games are called.
03-19-2018 10:13 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: This year
Seton Hall, a #9, nearly beat Kansas. Virginia and Xavier lost as a #1. Cincinnati and UNC lost as #2. Michigan State and Tennessee lost as a #3. Wichita State and Auburn lost as #4s. Syracuse and Loyola, both #11's, are in the Sweet 16. Seedings do not matter in March. Anything goes.

With regards to how games are called, please direct me to the NCAA rules where it explains the difference between regular season rule enforcement versus postseason rule enforcement. You want regular season games, only for one conference, to be adjusted in how they are officiated because that's the reason the said conference is "behind" the other conferences? No dice.
03-19-2018 10:48 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: This year
(03-19-2018 10:48 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Seton Hall, a #9, nearly beat Kansas. Virginia and Xavier lost as a #1. Cincinnati and UNC lost as #2. Michigan State and Tennessee lost as a #3. Wichita State and Auburn lost as #4s. Syracuse and Loyola, both #11's, are in the Sweet 16. Seedings do not matter in March. Anything goes.

With regards to how games are called, please direct me to the NCAA rules where it explains the difference between regular season rule enforcement versus postseason rule enforcement. You want regular season games, only for one conference, to be adjusted in how they are officiated because that's the reason the said conference is "behind" the other conferences? No dice.

Seeds absolutely matter in March. Just last year, the higher seeds were 38-10 in the first 2 rounds.

The NCAA games the refs call things by the book- ie full freedom of movement. Look at the conferences in the coalition that the Big East is in.... and their rank in free throws per field goal attempt:
Big East 30th
ACC 31st
A10 29th
CAA 15th
Big South 17th
Ivy 21st
NEC 20th
Patriot 26th

ACC with 4/9 teams making sweet 16 . Big East with 1/6 teams making sweet 16. A10 with 0/3 making sweet 16. So not exactly a great record for those conferences. With the 3 highest of the 8 conferences being in the bottom 4 in the stat(meaning the top refs are doing their games generally).
03-19-2018 11:08 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: This year
So I looked at the records of the seeds in 1st round the last 8 years(so since we went to 68 teams)....
1-16 31-1
2-15 28-4
3-14 27-5
4-13 26-6
5-12 20-12
6-11 14-18
7-10 22-10
8-9 20-12

in 2nd rounds-
1's are 25-6 in rd 2
2's are 18-10 in rd 2
3's are 17-10 in rd 2
4's are 20-6 in rd 2
5's are 8-12 in rd 2
6's are 5-9 in rd 2
7's are 9-13 in rd 2
8's are 4-16 in rd 2
9's are 3-9 in rd 2
10's are 4-6 in rd 2
11's are 10-8 in rd 2
12's are 2-10 in rd 2
13's are 2-4 in rd 2
14's are 0-5 in rd 2
15's are 1-3 in rd 2
16's are 0-1 in rd 2

yeah, i'd say seeds matter.
03-20-2018 08:58 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: This year
1 stat that I can not believe...

In the last 4 years the Big East has had 9 teams seeded between 7-10. 0 made the sweet 16. There were 23 other teams seeded 7-10. Of those 23, 12 made the sweet 16. That's just insane quite frankly.
03-20-2018 06:59 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: This year
um did a math error. there would be 64 teams instead of 32. So other conferences would have had 55 teams seeded 7-10, with 12 still making the sweet 16. Still 21.8%.
03-20-2018 07:26 PM
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