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Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
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bmf25 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
With the current product on the court, Drexel would be foolish to market the men's basketball program. The casual fan associates Drexel with the 2007 & 2012 teams, you do not want the casual fans to attend a game in our current state. Why attend a Drexel game when Temple, St Joes, UPenn, and Villanova are down the street? I'd rather visit the Mutter Museum on 22nd St than watch Drexel vs Elon.

Side Note: Minor league sports typically do not have local entertainment competition. The Hershey Bears are competing with local movie theatres... Drexel is offering a poor product in a competitive market.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2018 10:11 PM by bmf25.)
03-04-2018 10:10 PM
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
I agree with everything jb said.
03-04-2018 10:29 PM
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
Even if we’re not very good right now we play in exciting games. My first DAC game was vs UNCW. I couldn’t have picked out Brett Blizzard in a police lineup. Didn’t care about UNCW. But it was a hell of a game with a great atmosphere so I kept coming back.

Which I guess highlights the need to get the DAC Pack back on board.
03-04-2018 10:40 PM
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
(03-04-2018 08:12 PM)J.B. Wrote:  
(03-04-2018 07:51 PM)bmf25 Wrote:  Drexel's OOC schedule should consist of only these programs:

Bucknell, Lehigh, Lafayette, Vermont, Boston University, George Washington, Rider, Princeton, Penn, Villanova, Temple, St. Joes, LaSalle, Penn State, Rutgers

But why Vermont and BU? There are a lot schools who are better in basketball and much closer.

Vermont Basketball Resume
NCAA Tournament Recent Appearances: 2003, 2004, 2005, 2010, 2012, 2017
2018 RPI:56
2017 RPI:45
Basketball Budget: $1,579,502

Drexel Basketball Resume
NCAA Tournament Recent Appearances: none
2018 RPI: 240
2017 RPI: 309
Basketball Budget: $2,618,412
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2018 05:02 AM by bmf25.)
03-05-2018 04:42 AM
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J.B. Offline
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
(03-04-2018 10:10 PM)bmf25 Wrote:  With the current product on the court, Drexel would be foolish to market the men's basketball program. The casual fan associates Drexel with the 2007 & 2012 teams, you do not want the casual fans to attend a game in our current state. Why attend a Drexel game when Temple, St Joes, UPenn, and Villanova are down the street? I'd rather visit the Mutter Museum on 22nd St than watch Drexel vs Elon.

Side Note: Minor league sports typically do not have local entertainment competition. The Hershey Bears are competing with local movie theatres... Drexel is offering a poor product in a competitive market.

So what you're suggesting is that since Drexel had a few bad years on the court, that they should give up and stop trying?

If you market to kids and families and give them an incentive to show up, then they will come regardless of the record. A 10 year old kid who is given the chance to play basketball at halftime on the court or sing the national anthem on the court isn't going to care if Drexel is in last place or playing a team from North Carolina. The memory of the opportunity will dwarf that. The Reading Fightin Phils are one of the most successful MiLB teams in the country and it's all due to marketing. Even when the F'n Phils are having a bad season, the seats are still filled. I was driving home from a game and listening to the postgame, and the announcer said "Tough loss for the R-Phils tonight as it hurts their playoff chances". I'm thinking that 90% of the fans didn't even know that the team was in a playoff hunt. They were their for the fun atmosphere. There's no reason why Drexel Basketball can't take the same marketing approach as MiLB teams do.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2018 07:55 AM by J.B..)
03-05-2018 07:54 AM
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
(03-05-2018 07:54 AM)J.B. Wrote:  
(03-04-2018 10:10 PM)bmf25 Wrote:  With the current product on the court, Drexel would be foolish to market the men's basketball program. The casual fan associates Drexel with the 2007 & 2012 teams, you do not want the casual fans to attend a game in our current state. Why attend a Drexel game when Temple, St Joes, UPenn, and Villanova are down the street? I'd rather visit the Mutter Museum on 22nd St than watch Drexel vs Elon.

Side Note: Minor league sports typically do not have local entertainment competition. The Hershey Bears are competing with local movie theatres... Drexel is offering a poor product in a competitive market.

So what you're suggesting is that since Drexel had a few bad years on the court, that they should give up and stop trying?

If you market to kids and families and give them an incentive to show up, then they will come regardless of the record. A 10 year old kid who is given the chance to play basketball at halftime on the court or sing the national anthem on the court isn't going to care if Drexel is in last place or playing a team from North Carolina. The memory of the opportunity will dwarf that. The Reading Fightin Phils are one of the most successful MiLB teams in the country and it's all due to marketing. Even when the F'n Phils are having a bad season, the seats are still filled. I was driving home from a game and listening to the postgame, and the announcer said "Tough loss for the R-Phils tonight as it hurts their playoff chances". I'm thinking that 90% of the fans didn't even know that the team was in a playoff hunt. They were their for the fun atmosphere. There's no reason why Drexel Basketball can't take the same marketing approach as MiLB teams do.

correct!

and the "only game in town" argument is not valid. plenty of mid-majors in urban areas that draw well. Loyola-Chicago for example. just takes effort and creativity.
03-05-2018 08:47 AM
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relaxing Offline
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
(03-04-2018 09:03 PM)J.B. Wrote:  Now that I've had a few days to digest this, I'm going to give you my thoughts on what Drexel needs to do to help attendance.

1. Marketing to kids and families in the area. This is tough for me to do, because I like these people and they have been REALLY good to me. But I have to call out the ticketing and marketing people on this. I really feel as if they've stopped trying. When my daughter sang the National Anthem last year, I was told that they'll let people sing if they ask, but they're just going to let the Pep Band perform because nobody seems interested in singing anymore. That seems like a quitting attitude. If you get high school teenagers in to sing the anthem, they'll sell some tickets. They used to have a successful Girl Scout Day for Women's Basketball, but they gave up on that too. Maybe it's not their fault and it's due to lack of resources. But if that's the case, then the entire department has stopped trying. They need to do what it takes to introduce kids and families to Drexel Basketball. Kids and families will buy tickets. A local elementary school recently sang the anthem at a Temple Game. And I'm sure they sold hundreds of tickets for that. My thought is that if Temple can do it, so can Drexel. Temple might be in a bigger conference, and play in a fancier arena. But who cares? They are no better than Drexel. If Temple can do it, so can Drexel. They need to do what it takes to introduce kids and families to Drexel Basketball. Kids and families will buy tickets. Continue to invite youth basketball teams to play exhibitions at halftime, and maybe even real games before or afterwards. Now some of you might think that we shouldn't be marketing to people who don't care about Drexel Basketball. My response to that is, who cares? There aren't a lot of chair back seats at the DAC. If they fill them up with groups, and limit the amount of tickets left on game day, it will create a demand that might lead to sellouts. If games are sold out, it might convince people that they need season tickets to avoid getting shut out. That will create even more demand. There's no reason why the DAC can't be sold out almost every game and this is how you do it. How can they accomplish getting the groups into the DAC? Drexel promotes their Sports Management degree. Sports Management people are supposed to learn to manage game day operations, including marketing and ticket sales. So why isn't the AD utilizing these students? Hire them for paid or unpaid interns, and work to promote and get the word out to schools and youth organizations and get butts in the seats. IT CAN BE DONE.

2. Drexel Students. I don’t think that the athletic department can fix this problem on their own. But it will take a group of dedicated students to rebuild the DAC Pack from ground up. They need to figure out what their goals and objectives are. They need to push for student funding and funding from the AD. Students recruit students and it will take a group like The DAC Pack to convince the student body that Drexel Basketball is FUN. Section off an area of the student section. Let the student body know that anyone is welcome to be part of this section, as long as they wear a gold shirt, stand and cheer, and have fun. The DAC Pack started from scratch with a few dedicated students. IT CAN BE DONE.

3. Embrace the DAC – The renovated DAC in itself a fine mid-major arena but is still a work in progress. It is not something that we as fans should be embarrassed by. I don’t get the anonymous quote in the article by a STH who’s embarrassed to take guests to the DAC. It’s not glitzy, but it’s small, intimate, and it gets all fans really close to the action. It’s no longer uncomfortable. It’s no longer hot. Guests no longer have to go down 3 fights of steps to pee. The scoreboards stink, but I’ve seen plans that we should be getting new scoreboards and video screens very soon. Also, I’m told, the team areas are as nice as any and the DAC should no longer hurt recruiting. If we have good coaches recruiting the players, the players will come. It doesn’t hurt Denise that much, and it shouldn’t hurt Zach either.

4. Improve the Game Day Atmosphere – This is a big issue. The game day presentation is stale and needs to be improved. Having video screens can help. But fancy screens alone can’t fix the problem. It takes a good plan to make the DAC fun again. The DAC needs new lighting, and new lights could help with the atmosphere as well. Anyone who’s been to a game at Temple knows that Temple knows how to put on a good show. Drexel’s marketing people should be working with our friends at Temple to figure out how they can put on a similar game day presentation at the DAC. As I said before, if Temple can do it, so can Drexel. This would be a great project for Drexel’s Sports Management students to figure out how to do it. IT CAN BE DONE.
Quoting this so people keep seeing it. Great post, JB. I had no idea things had gotten this bad.

I'm amazed some of these things aren't happening, things I would have taken for granted that once started you'd just continue. I know the AD doesn't think MBB is a good investment, but there's no reason why it should be neglected like this.
03-05-2018 11:05 AM
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DrachenFire Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
(03-05-2018 11:05 AM)relaxing Wrote:  I'm amazed some of these things aren't happening, things I would have taken for granted that once started you'd just continue. I know the AD doesn't think MBB is a good investment, but there's no reason why it should be neglected like this.

Agree that JB's post was excellent, although I don't personally agree 100% with his third point, but I want to tie my response in with this post from another thread:

(02-25-2018 09:00 AM)fredsavage Wrote:  players have changed

coaches have changed

the dac has changed

what's the one consistent piece .... ????

I'm about as far removed from being a Big Z fan as you can get, but there is one other variable that has changed that is not mentioned above, and that is the school president has changed. So while things definitely need to be done better, I am not 100% certain that it all is on Zillmer if Fry has differentiated in vision from Taki.

And this caring about the opponent strikes me as odd. I don't care who the hell we play, I want to beat the ever living crap out of any visiting team that dares step foot in the DAC. I don't give a crap about Bucknell or any of the other schools listed in BMFs [redacted]. Spiker just held the best player on the team out of the starting lineup in the most important game of the year because he was late for the team bus before the JMU game. The name on the front of the jersey is more important than the name on the back, and it sure as hell means more than the name on the opposing side. The name on the front reads "DREXEL," root for the laundry.

The best way to get people into the stands is to win, and win consistently. Winning would be easier if more people came to the games. The easiest people to get to the games are the students since their tickets are free and they're essentially already there. When they're there, it would be most helpful if they stood and were loud. The DACPack needs to be rebuilt. It needs to get back to where when one group of leaders graduates, the next group is there to not let the flag fall as a matter of pride. Maybe the students would care more if the administration seemed to show that they care. This weekend, they thought so highly of the men's team's chances, that they were not willing to pay for the Pep Band to make the trip.

There remains a power vacuum in this league just begging for someone to fill it. UNCW probably has come the closest winning back to back, but they lost their coach and stumbled during the regular season. Maybe they cement that by winning from the 6 seed. Maybe CofC starts that process during the beginning of the week. But it could still be us.
03-05-2018 01:06 PM
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J.B. Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
This weekend, they thought so highly of the men's team's chances, that they were not willing to pay for the Pep Band to make the trip.

[/quote]

I don't think that it was as much a disrespect to the men's team as it was extra respect to the #1 seeded women's team. The women were home on Saturday on Senior Day in a critical game and the band was there. Drexel doesn't have a band the size that Temple has where they are able to create separate men's and women's pep bands. 2 years ago, Temple men were in the NCAA Tournament in Buffalo and had a band there, and there was also a Temple Pep Band at the DAC for the Drexel/Temple WNIT matchup.

I think that the cheerleaders and dance team must have been split up, since there were cheerleaders at DAC on Saturday. I also noticed that Mario must have taken a super jet to Charleston because he was at the DAC and later in North Charleston. I'm not going to say that there are 2 Mario's, because that would be impossible, right. There can only be ONE Mascot.
03-05-2018 01:17 PM
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relaxing Offline
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
(03-05-2018 01:06 PM)DrachenFire Wrote:  This weekend, they thought so highly of the men's team's chances, that they were not willing to pay for the Pep Band to make the trip.

You can't be serious.
03-05-2018 03:57 PM
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
(03-05-2018 07:54 AM)J.B. Wrote:  So what you're suggesting is that since Drexel had a few bad years on the court, that they should give up and stop trying?

If you market to kids and families and give them an incentive to show up, then they will come regardless of the record. A 10 year old kid who is given the chance to play basketball at halftime on the court or sing the national anthem on the court isn't going to care if Drexel is in last place or playing a team from North Carolina.

Prior to wasting money on marketing, Drexel should improve the product on the court. Drexel destroyed their west coast reputation with the Sacramento campus fiasco, essentially selling degrees to anyone that applied. Can't get into a west coast university? Just buy a degree from Drexel - Sacramento, lets not destroy the Drexel basketball brand.

Marketing to kids and families will solidify our reputation as the Robert Morris of Philadelphia basketball. Look at the positive, Drexel lost to Bowling Green, Mercer, Drake, NJIT, Robert Morris, Loyola(MD).... yet no one knows how badly the program has sunk.
03-05-2018 04:50 PM
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
(03-05-2018 11:05 AM)relaxing Wrote:  I'm amazed some of these things aren't happening, things I would have taken for granted that once started you'd just continue. I know the AD doesn't think MBB is a good investment, but there's no reason why it should be neglected like this.

He doesn't see the value in intercollegiate athletics beyond simple recreation. He derided us for wanting to build an on-campus football stadium. You aren't Penn State, but you have more potential than what the overall athletic product currently entails. The problem is you have an AD holding you back significantly.
03-05-2018 05:36 PM
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
(03-05-2018 05:36 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  [quote='relaxing' pid='15132444' dateline='1520265928']
you have more potential than what the overall athletic product currently entails. The problem is you have an AD holding you back significantly.

its gotten so bad that other schools recognize it
03-05-2018 07:18 PM
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
(03-05-2018 04:50 PM)bmf25 Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 07:54 AM)J.B. Wrote:  So what you're suggesting is that since Drexel had a few bad years on the court, that they should give up and stop trying?

If you market to kids and families and give them an incentive to show up, then they will come regardless of the record. A 10 year old kid who is given the chance to play basketball at halftime on the court or sing the national anthem on the court isn't going to care if Drexel is in last place or playing a team from North Carolina.

Prior to wasting money on marketing, Drexel should improve the product on the court. Drexel destroyed their west coast reputation with the Sacramento campus fiasco, essentially selling degrees to anyone that applied. Can't get into a west coast university? Just buy a degree from Drexel - Sacramento, lets not destroy the Drexel basketball brand.

Marketing to kids and families will solidify our reputation as the Robert Morris of Philadelphia basketball. Look at the positive, Drexel lost to Bowling Green, Mercer, Drake, NJIT, Robert Morris, Loyola(MD).... yet no one knows how badly the program has sunk.
Sunk so far that we had the best wins in the conference this year. Only team with 5 wins against the top 100. That includes a win over Houston, a team who also beat Wichita State and Cincinnati. The same Cincinnati who is a likely 2 seed in the tournament. While we certainly had some bad losses, we had some extraordinary wins too. We saw drastic improvement as the season went on. The future is bright no matter how did you want it to be

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03-05-2018 08:51 PM
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
(03-05-2018 07:18 PM)fredsavage Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 05:36 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  [quote='relaxing' pid='15132444' dateline='1520265928']
you have more potential than what the overall athletic product currently entails. The problem is you have an AD holding you back significantly.

its gotten so bad that other schools recognize it

I just got my master's at Drexel, and he came into one of my classes and just trashed us. It was very tough for me to sit there and take it.
03-05-2018 09:36 PM
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
(03-05-2018 05:36 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 11:05 AM)relaxing Wrote:  I'm amazed some of these things aren't happening, things I would have taken for granted that once started you'd just continue. I know the AD doesn't think MBB is a good investment, but there's no reason why it should be neglected like this.

He doesn't see the value in intercollegiate athletics beyond simple recreation. He derided us for wanting to build an on-campus football stadium. You aren't Penn State, but you have more potential than what the overall athletic product currently entails. The problem is you have an AD holding you back significantly.

You’re confusing the AD with Prez Fry. Fry derided Temple for wanting an on-campus stadium, although I think Temple building an on-campus stadium is dumb too, but if you guys want to do it with 100% guaranteed, iron clad no tax money where if it blows up on you you’re willing to kill the program? Knock yourselves out.

Whoops, missed your second post.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2018 09:50 PM by DrachenFire.)
03-05-2018 09:48 PM
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JHG722 Offline
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
(03-05-2018 09:48 PM)DrachenFire Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 05:36 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 11:05 AM)relaxing Wrote:  I'm amazed some of these things aren't happening, things I would have taken for granted that once started you'd just continue. I know the AD doesn't think MBB is a good investment, but there's no reason why it should be neglected like this.

He doesn't see the value in intercollegiate athletics beyond simple recreation. He derided us for wanting to build an on-campus football stadium. You aren't Penn State, but you have more potential than what the overall athletic product currently entails. The problem is you have an AD holding you back significantly.

You’re confusing the AD with Prez Fry. Fry derided Temple for wanting an on-campus stadium, although I think Temple building an on-campus stadium is dumb too, but if you guys want to do it with 100% guaranteed, iron clad no tax money where if it blows up on you you’re willing to kill the program? Knock yourselves out.

Whoops, missed your second post.

lol kill the program? The only place we're going is up. We've come too far and done too well.

You are entitled to your opinion even if your opinion is wrong.
03-05-2018 10:49 PM
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
(03-05-2018 10:49 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 09:48 PM)DrachenFire Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 05:36 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 11:05 AM)relaxing Wrote:  I'm amazed some of these things aren't happening, things I would have taken for granted that once started you'd just continue. I know the AD doesn't think MBB is a good investment, but there's no reason why it should be neglected like this.

He doesn't see the value in intercollegiate athletics beyond simple recreation. He derided us for wanting to build an on-campus football stadium. You aren't Penn State, but you have more potential than what the overall athletic product currently entails. The problem is you have an AD holding you back significantly.

You’re confusing the AD with Prez Fry. Fry derided Temple for wanting an on-campus stadium, although I think Temple building an on-campus stadium is dumb too, but if you guys want to do it with 100% guaranteed, iron clad no tax money where if it blows up on you you’re willing to kill the program? Knock yourselves out.

Whoops, missed your second post.

lol kill the program? The only place we're going is up. We've come too far and done too well.

You are entitled to your opinion even if your opinion is wrong.

Cool. As I said, not a taxpayer dime. If it’s such a sure thing, shouldn’t be an issue.
03-05-2018 10:55 PM
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JHG722 Offline
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
(03-05-2018 10:55 PM)DrachenFire Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 10:49 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 09:48 PM)DrachenFire Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 05:36 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 11:05 AM)relaxing Wrote:  I'm amazed some of these things aren't happening, things I would have taken for granted that once started you'd just continue. I know the AD doesn't think MBB is a good investment, but there's no reason why it should be neglected like this.

He doesn't see the value in intercollegiate athletics beyond simple recreation. He derided us for wanting to build an on-campus football stadium. You aren't Penn State, but you have more potential than what the overall athletic product currently entails. The problem is you have an AD holding you back significantly.

You’re confusing the AD with Prez Fry. Fry derided Temple for wanting an on-campus stadium, although I think Temple building an on-campus stadium is dumb too, but if you guys want to do it with 100% guaranteed, iron clad no tax money where if it blows up on you you’re willing to kill the program? Knock yourselves out.

Whoops, missed your second post.

lol kill the program? The only place we're going is up. We've come too far and done too well.

You are entitled to your opinion even if your opinion is wrong.

Cool. As I said, not a taxpayer dime. If it’s such a sure thing, shouldn’t be an issue.

You're probably from New Jersey.
03-05-2018 10:59 PM
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RE: Always A Dragon - Empty Seats at the DAC
jhg can you share anything else he said in your class? ie, how he views his own athletic program?
03-06-2018 08:32 AM
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