Just curious what your thoughts are on who will win MAC Coach of the Year for men's bball. As a Toledo fan, I'd like to see Tod Kowalczyk get consideration. It seems like a lot of times, coach of the year awards are given to coaches who exceed expectations. The Rockets were picked to finish third in the West and they finished in first by themselves. I'm sure Nate Oats will get a lot of consideration, but they were picked to win the East and got the second most votes to win the tournament.

What do you all think?

I would vote for Jack Owens. I don’t think anyone has done as much against expectations as he has. Amazing quick turnaround for that program with a lot of promise for next year.

I'd probably vote Kowalczyk. The Rockets definitely exceeded some expectations this year.

But why should Oats not get it? He has worked his way to this team for three years and deserves to be honored as Coach of the Year for it!

He had the best season, got UB to the #1 seed, and a Top 40 RPI...

Because he has the best team in the conference. On paper, I would take Ball State or EMU's talent over Toledo's, yet the Rockets will finish at least two games ahead of both of those teams. This team is nowhere near as talented as the Juice Brown/Rian Pearson teams, yet they're finishing right around the same spot as those squads did. Granted, the conference as a whole isn't as good as it was back then either, but it doesn't take away from the job Kowalczyk has done.

(02-28-2018 07:31 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  Because he has the best team in the conference. On paper, I would take Ball State or EMU's talent over Toledo's, yet the Rockets will finish at least two games ahead of both of those teams. This team is nowhere near as talented as the Juice Brown/Rian Pearson teams, yet they're finishing right around the same spot as those squads did. Granted, the conference as a whole isn't as good as it was back then either, but it doesn't take away from the job Kowalczyk has done.

Ok so why shouldn't the coach of the best team be coach of the year? He recruited them, he put the team together, and he had the most success in the league..

(02-28-2018 08:55 PM)BullBoy Wrote:  

(02-28-2018 07:31 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  Because he has the best team in the conference. On paper, I would take Ball State or EMU's talent over Toledo's, yet the Rockets will finish at least two games ahead of both of those teams. This team is nowhere near as talented as the Juice Brown/Rian Pearson teams, yet they're finishing right around the same spot as those squads did. Granted, the conference as a whole isn't as good as it was back then either, but it doesn't take away from the job Kowalczyk has done.

Ok so why shouldn't the coach of the best team be coach of the year? He recruited them, he put the team together, and he had the most success in the league..

If you had to choose, would you give more credit to talented players or the coaching for the Bulls? (I don’t think COY is usually given because of recruiting, so it’s usually never both. )

Ok so Oats in his first year went to the NCAA Tournament and didn’t get coach of the year. So now that he has done a great job and is expected to win you guys are saying he should never win the award because since he is at the top of the league he can’t exceed expectations like other coaches?

(02-28-2018 09:52 PM)BullBoy Wrote:  Ok so Oats in his first year went to the NCAA Tournament and didn’t get coach of the year. So now that he has done a great job and is expected to win you guys are saying he should never win the award because since he is at the top of the league he can’t exceed expectations like other coaches?

If a team is expected to be 1 or 2 in the league and ends as 1, should they get COY vs. a team predicted to finish 6 or 7 that finishes 2nd???

The MAC West also proved tougher than the East... So a guy who has the talent predicted to be 6th or 7th, won a tougher division with what was thought to be lesser talent and ended up only 1 game behind coach #1. The deciding factor being the first game of MAC play head to head on UB'S court.

Also....! UB's previous head coach won the league... He wasn't fired for not being good enough.... Oats took over a team who won the MAC. So the starting point does not compare to any other coach in the MAC.

With that said I believe BSU (with program issues) has done better than expected and should get said vote...

(02-28-2018 09:52 PM)BullBoy Wrote:  Ok so Oats in his first year went to the NCAA Tournament and didn’t get coach of the year. So now that he has done a great job and is expected to win you guys are saying he should never win the award because since he is at the top of the league he can’t exceed expectations like other coaches?

He does have a point...

Also, to add credit for Oats... This team was so banged up to start the year that it was not until mid January we put our complete roster on the court. We played the non conference schedule with 7-8 guys most nights..

Heck we recruited our third string quarterback because we needed warm bodies to practice against.

(02-28-2018 10:15 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  The MAC West also proved tougher than the East...

Not by too much.... Everyone in the East had to play Buffalo twice, Ball State and Toledo got away with just one game against UB.

(02-28-2018 05:39 PM)axeme Wrote:  I would vote for Jack Owens. I don’t think anyone has done as much against expectations as he has. Amazing quick turnaround for that program with a lot of promise for next year.

The case for Owens is that he took over a team with 7 consecutive losing season, and under Coach Cooper the high water mark was 13 wins. Immediately the only two really talented players transferred up, one to Oklahoma State, the other to Duquesne. He got hired in mid April when most talented players are long gone and signed elsewhere. Because of 4 guys transferring, two guys retiring because of injuries, one guy sitting out the year with an injury, and one guy with visa problems, Owens ended up with only 5 returning players, only one of which was a starter. He then recruited 6 guys and at this point in the year, they are our 6 best players. 4 freshmen and two junior college guys. Despite all that, Miami is at .500 with an RPI of 140.

Look... Saying "the preseason poll said they should be X but they are Y" is a crap argument. It's predicated on the MAC Media having a clue about things beyond their teams of interest.

Who said he should never win the award? He’s a good coach. But he started this year with what were considered the best players. I think Owens did the best with the cards he was dealt. Miami was predicated to be the worst team in the East and they were far from that as Buffalo and others learned.

I think a good case can be made for 4 coaches, all mentioned in this thread—Miami, UT, UB, and BSU.

(03-01-2018 12:20 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Look... Saying "the preseason poll said they should be X but they are Y" is a crap argument. It's predicated on the MAC Media having a clue about things beyond their teams of interest.

Hmm. I think if UB had been predicted to be 5th or 6th and instead won the division or even just did markedly better, you’d be making the same argument.

It wasn’t just the media who thought UB started with the best players. IIRC, UB fans thought the same as did many on this board.

Coaches/teams who are expected to do well and do so are rarely given the credit they deserve. It's much harder to win when it's expected than when you're underestimated. Too much credit is given to teams that even modestly exceed expectations; nobody seems to assess those initial expectations in the first place.

(03-01-2018 01:38 AM)axeme Wrote:  

(03-01-2018 12:20 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Look... Saying "the preseason poll said they should be X but they are Y" is a crap argument. It's predicated on the MAC Media having a clue about things beyond their teams of interest.

Hmm. I think if UB had been predicted to be 5th or 6th and instead won the division or even just did markedly better, you’d be making the same argument.

Perhaps but does that make an argument more/less valid?

(02-28-2018 11:38 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-28-2018 10:15 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  The MAC West also proved tougher than the East...

Not by too much.... Everyone in the East had to play Buffalo twice, Ball State and Toledo got away with just one game against UB.

And on the flip side UB only played BSU and Toledo once a piece. WMU for example played the top other 4 seeds twice (UB, UT, BSU, EMU) Their conference SOS is the best.

The MAC east is used to having Akron and OU as anchors. Both are bottom 4s this year.

4 of top 5 are from the West... It doesn't happen often but this season the West is stronger.

Good arguments can be made about a few guys. Miami probably exceeded most expectations and has done the most with the least. BSU has overcome the most adversity probably. Toledo recruited a 1 year player who will win MAC POY who has brought them from the depths. UB was coached to the best overall and won the regular season outright.

This whole discussion might be more informative if people would indicate who they think is most deserving of being COY from any team except their school’s team. Same for a discussion/thread about All-MAC teams: who besides players on your school’s team deserve to be All-MAC?

When it deteriorates into plain partisanship, it not only becomes uninteresting, it becomes pointless: the discussion is over before it starts. Might as well just post your school’s logo and be done with it.